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1941  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 60% and climbing) on: September 19, 2013, 02:37:13 PM

Quote
Say there's Bank A, B, and C and they issue the IOU's USD.A, USD.B, USD.C respectively. They are all liquidity providers for the others.
Gateways, generally speaking, don't provide each other liquidity. Market makers do that. A gateway that needed to might provide some "backstop liquidity" to ensure the assets it issues are liquid, but it's not likely to handle assets issued by other gateways as part of its ordinary course of business, unless it had some specific reason to. Why add unnecessary risk?

By that, you mean regular ripple users become liquidity providers and will end up holding worthless IOUs. You'd have to run rippled if you don't want to be a liquidity provider. Liquidity providers takes on a significant risk of losing money without any reward.

Speculating on the prices of XRP is much more important than not making your users carry on significant risks. There's real world examples of people that have lost money. But if ripple users were not liquidity providers by default (charging 0% fee while taking on non-zero risk), Ripple's payment system won't be functional.

This is just one of the many flaws of ripple, and if you do your own research you'll get the real picture of what Ripple and OpenCoin Inc is. I'll elaborate upon these points in a rewrite of RippleScam.org soon.

What license will the Ripple server be licensed in?
Rippled is only needed to take part in the transaction ordering process, maybe a bit similar to bitcoin in the sense that you don't need to mine to use them (though mining also gives a reward besides purely confirming transactions).

Everything that happens on the network itself can already be done using open source software. This includes running a gateway of course and issuing/redeeming IOUs.

You can only end up with worthless IOUs in the case of trusting a fraudulent gateway, like the stunt tradefortress pulled off. Even this could be prevented, though i doubt that the settings for that would be in the official client by default. They could be patched into a "paranoid" fork though.
1942  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 60% and climbing) on: September 18, 2013, 06:09:41 PM
Consider that Bed Bath and Beyond might put Mattresses out on the Ripple system, and they would be a mattress gateway. If a user in Ripple purchases a mattress IOU with USD they could swap out the mattress IOU for an equivalent amount of Rubles.

Now we have a bizarre setup where one gateway holds a Mattress IOU -Likely in Russia- they most assuredly don't want.

You are not able to force IOUs upon anyone that they don't want - if you manage to trade a mattress IOU for RUB directly, this person has to have trusted the mattress IOU issuer explicitly.

What is more likely is that you trade mattress --> USD.Bitstamp --> RUB.RussianGateway which involves two atomic trades, where someone gets the mattress IOU they are willing to accept for USD.Bitstamp via an open market order and someone else gets these USD.Bitstamp and give you RUB.RussianGateway, as well through an explicit market order. There is no way the second person will end up with a mattress unless he/she explicitly want them.

Ripple works similar to your bank account: Whoever sends you money (e.g. I send you 10 EUR from Deutsche Bank) - it will be converted in the end via one or more intermediates to a balance of USD IOUs of your own bank. Yes, there might be special cases, I know, but the basic principle is that if someone sends you money from a different bank, you don't receive something that can be only redeemed at that other bank - you receive a balance with your own bank (gateway). Ripple just makes these conversions explicit and public, instead of implicit and hidden away (you cannot choose on a free market who exchanges my EUR.DeutscheBank to your USD.BankOfAmerika for example).

As there will be, as you correctly said, always be uncertainty on how much you can trust a gateway, there will also be always fees in between from people who are willing to take that risk. Take BTC.TradeFortress for example - if you believe there is a 1% chance that TF would actually send you the amount of BTC on the block chain that he received on Ripple when redeeming the IOUs, as soon as you buy more than 100 BTC.TradeFortress with a quite surely redeemable BTC.Bitstamp, you might actually have made a profit. There might be other people with different valuations etc. but the basic principle is still that of an open and free market for price (and through price: risk) discovery. Just like what's currently happening still with USD.MtGox vs. USD.Bitstamp.
You are just criticising that prices and conversion rates between IOUs can and will never be 100% certain - this however is in my opinion a basic premise of any IOU and to some extend even something that applies to real goods and assets. It is like saying stock markets are bound to fail as there is no way to determine the real value of shares.
1943  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Electrum, inputs.io and bitcoind (.01 BTC REWARD) on: September 18, 2013, 12:07:44 PM
inputs.io is not storing Bitcoins, it stores Bitcoin debt that can be redeemed on demand. You do NOT have the private keys for your coins there.

Electrum as far as I know has implemented the "Seed key" feature to generate many addresses from a single seed (so that's the only thing you need to back up and keep secret) while Bitcoind still generates addresses in a purely random way (that you all need to back up and keep secret).

For other wallets, maybe check the subforum here.
1944  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 60% and climbing) on: September 18, 2013, 12:03:15 PM
If you are _that_ dependent on my approval... Roll Eyes

I can understand a certain excitement, once you start claiming that Satoshi is also developing Ripple though you might actually need to take a deep breath, step back from the keyboard and just be happy that XRP gained so much recently, just because Patrick said something on a Bitcoin meetup in NYC that was recorded.
1945  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! on: September 18, 2013, 11:50:26 AM
Ladies and gentleman Mr. TradeFortress, give him a warm welcome.

Are you the owner of RippleScam.org? How will you handle the lawsuit from OpenCoin when they sue you for doing that?
By the way, Mr. Tradefortress I heard that your business is closed-source, off-the-chain, centralized, IOU issuing webwallet service that is advertising that it transacts (near) instantly between users?
Is that true? Good luck with that Cheesy

The key thing is that Inputs compliments the decentralized Bitcoin instead of replacing Bitcoin with a centralized version and calling it XIO.
Would you allow people opening inputs.io Bitcoin IOU<--> Ripple Bitcoin IOU bridges/gateways?

There is an API to add your own gateways to a Ripple client, the Bitstamp one seems to be in there by default though (something I don't like either, though as the client is open source, I can easily patch that out).

The main difference between inputs.io and Ripple is that you don't try to open anything up to the public, so you have the benefits of running fully centralized. You simply don't need to create public ledgers, a way to rate-limit decentralized peers or a way to make sure which transaction was first, as this ALL will be handled by your centralized, closed, IOU-moving server(s).

DividendRippler is not an exchange, it is a gateway to enter the distributed exchange that is called "Ripple". Depending on your viewpoint it might be easy to confuse them with an actual exchange, as the process goes hand in hand (similar to SVN --> GIT similarities and differences). Also there are several layers on Ripple that are decentralized to certain degrees - gateways that issue/redeem IOUs, XRP as assets, the rippled servers that process transactions, ripple clients that construct transactions and display information... so far anyone can build a gateway based on the public API, the client code is open source and XRP are as valueless as BTC initially (though they might be worth something based on their usefulness and network effects). Even if rippled is open sourced, this can and will not change anything about the distribution of XRP - luckily they are not (unlike BTC) the only thing that the network can transact.

All in all I guess there is a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation going on around Ripple, which can be also seen here, as nearly any post about it (even if it does NOT deal with XRP as currency) gets moved to Alternate Cryptocurrencies while threads about other exchanges, markets or IOU issuers stay in their respective forums even if they rarely deal with pure on-chain BTC (or never at all, like BitFunder, who ONLY deals in weexchange BTC IOUs!).

AmazonStuff has earned a place on my mental ignore list by the way, this kind of making up facts is irritating and only serves to make Ripple users look bad (or heavily invested in XRP...).
1946  Local / Biete / Re: Verkaufe 5 Euro Amazon Gutschein. on: September 18, 2013, 11:09:18 AM
"Das Angebot gilt nur für Kunden mit Wohnsitz und Rechnungsadresse in Deutschland" - gleich wie Amazon Student... Angry

Sorry, aber uninteressant und hat wohl auch nichts mit kochmanns Angebot zu tun.
1947  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: TradeFortress VERY untrustworthy, owes me 10.15 BTC, possibly others. on: September 18, 2013, 11:04:32 AM
Followed up on the public ripple ledger.

Shortly after he initially sent the BTC back to me, he sent one of his IOUs for 15BTC to bitcointalk user aadje93 ripple address rMyHUbgreHFvvxoD5pGmg1fKRdSBHisy39 who then immediately withdrew 9.15 BTC to bitstamp.

See https://ripple.com/graph/#rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv


Mods: please check the IPs of this user aadje93 to see if it's the same as TradeFortress.

The other 1 BTC was done as a test by a member who said they'd be happy to it back to me, even though they don't owe it, tradefortress does.

rMyHUbgreHFvvxoD5pGmg1fKRdSBHisy39

The address TradeFortress used to issue this bad debt was funded by... rMyHUbgreHFvvxoD5pGmg1fKRdSBHisy39 - the TradeFortress address is by the way the ONLY address that this "aadje93 address" was funding (Funding means the first initial transaction of XRP in Ripple that are partially held as account reserve).

aadje93 seems to be a guy named Adrian from the Nederlands or Belgium (if you take the 93 as birth year, he's likely 19-20 years old). I'm not too sure that he is actually TradeFortress (different writing style amongst other things) but I really wonder then why he sent some XRP to this address that was used to scam people AND managed to scam them for real as well afterwards. There must be some connection between TF and aadje93, after all their addresses are far to closely linked in the Ripple graph for this to be accidential or by chance.
1948  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple will be open-sourced on September 26!!! on: September 18, 2013, 10:02:38 AM
How can you get XRP with buying them?

I guess you mean "without"?

You could get them at giveaways for free (similar to Bitcoin faucets), other than that XRP are designed to be bought. On the other hand, you'll likely will not need to buy any significant amount to use the system basically forever (and I am talking about "1 coffee at a café" amounts converted in USD), after that holding any more XRP is speculation just like with any other asset.
1949  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 60% and climbing) on: September 18, 2013, 09:57:57 AM
I'm going to guess that the open source release will be crippled in some way.
Well, it will be "crippled" in the sense that it is not too likely that suddenly everyone and their mother puts the node someone just brought online in their UNL - so someone unknown starting to run rippled would have limited impact on the actual network initially.

"Crippled" in the sense of for example "not being able to take part in consensus at all" or "can only run testnet" is unlikely, as there would be need for major restructuring of the code base to even remotely accomplish that. Also it could trivially be patched back in. I would recommend them to make rippled start by default in testnet mode (as a lot of nodes coming up at the same time might overload the p2p network with requests for historic data) with mainnet only available with command line switches or non-default config settings, but other than that I see no indications for "crippling potential" other than the mentioned "network killing itself due to sudden influx of nodes" scenario, which is not really part of the source code.
1950  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 60% and climbing) on: September 17, 2013, 04:45:45 PM
The 1000 XRP giveaway from SnapSwap is more tahn you'll ever need in a lifetime likely... I'd call that a large quantity.
1951  Local / Biete / Re: Verkaufe 5 Euro Amazon Gutschein. on: September 17, 2013, 03:07:19 PM
Schubs...
1952  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 43% and climbing) on: September 17, 2013, 02:42:55 PM
What do you count as "not really being decentralized"? It is unlikely that there will suddenly be hundreds of trusted server operators out there on the same day that it (supposedly) is open sourced... Currently there are a low 2 digit number of rippled servers running of which only the minority is operated by OpenCoin. Is this enough for you (and at which point was Bitcoin "really decentralized" by the way?)?
Simply put, can the Ripple network continue operating without OpenCoin?
You have to understand that Bitcoin's biggest innovation is that it can establish a consensus without any centralization; the blockchain is the authority, etc. If they release a passive daemon, it is interesting for developers, will likely create many gateways, but still would have a single point of failure.

It already could, as there are more non-OC servers in the network than OC servers online. Most of them probably use OC servers exclusively in their UNL though, to ensure that any needed changes actually are accepted until opening up.

Ripple is already now able to establish consensus without any centralization, the only reason it maybe (I can't tell which UNLs server operators are using) does still trust OC to a degree that it could be called "centralized" is that there could still be changes to the protocol that need to be done and that would be hard to do in a decentralized way if the operators of servers operate them in a "fire and forget" mode or start actively forking and/or testing the network.

Ripple is secured by having a diverse UNL (Bitcoin by computational power of miners), so the biggest issue that needs to be solved still imho is how to actually build a good UNL with trusted, non-colluding entities asap after going live.
1953  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: New bitcoin trading bot: looking for feedback on: September 17, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
It seems to me like people trust web services that are closed source and opaque far more than client applications, even if the web applications get more "dangerous" data inserted, so my tip would be to work on a 24/7 hosted bot platform that allows people to sign up, input their API key(s) and select a strategy. It would also eliminate the need to keep a PC running at night which is something that few people of your target audience do probably.
1954  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Inputs.io Question on: September 17, 2013, 11:14:20 AM
You do not own Bitcoins when using inputs.io, you own IOUs (Bitcoin denominated debt) issued by them. Think of it like a bank account, where you deposit money - if you look at their vault, you also can't tell which bills are yours, however you trust them that they are still there.
1955  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: September 17, 2013, 11:11:48 AM
For example your daily interest will never be lent out, unless you do so manually.

Also I'm not 100% sure about how bitfinex handles partially taken lending offers with auto-renew.
1956  Economy / Services / Re: Gigamining / Teramining on: September 17, 2013, 11:09:53 AM
Well, mine is not in process... still unpaid though as I am still refusing to sign these statements that were not part of the original deal.

makes sense... given that everything else in the "original deal" is exactly the same... let me just log in to my online account managed by GLBSE...

perhaps I can file an online ticket with Nefario???  Tongue
Giga has more than enough information available to send me the BTC he owes me and I have also offered to sign something with the payout address of mine he has on record.

Unilaterally closing a contract after imposing unreasonable requests for private information + a signed statement that definitely wasn't part of the initial contract does have nothing to do with GLBSE closing.
1957  Economy / Exchanges / Re: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading on: September 17, 2013, 10:01:37 AM
Autolend automatically creates lending offers with any balance that is not yet lent out or in an offer. You can specify either VIR or a percentage rate.

Also it seems to cancel existing offers and recreates them at the autolend rate you set, I'm not sure if this has changed since I last checked. It won't lend out at market rates, it creates limit offers.
1958  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 43% and climbing) on: September 17, 2013, 09:54:47 AM
What do you count as "not really being decentralized"? It is unlikely that there will suddenly be hundreds of trusted server operators out there on the same day that it (supposedly) is open sourced... Currently there are a low 2 digit number of rippled servers running of which only the minority is operated by OpenCoin. Is this enough for you (and at which point was Bitcoin "really decentralized" by the way?)?
1959  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: New bitcoin trading bot: looking for feedback on: September 17, 2013, 09:51:45 AM
There are multiple open source bots available, why should anyone use your closed source one?

Also bots are only as good as their strategy... and of course their connection to the API/exchange. I personally would recommend to take a look at existing bots and trading libraries already out there before you start (again) to implement the Bitstamp API from scratch. If you think you ca do better than the bot you bought, do you mean that you can have a nicer interface and/or more stable program running or do you mean that you have ideas for better trading strategies?
1960  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Ripple XRP to go open source on Sept 26 ! (UPDATE - already up 43% and climbing) on: September 17, 2013, 09:19:13 AM
His account hasn't been funded yet, so besides getting giveaways, he needs to buy on the external market and can't use Ripple internal...
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