[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[Guy Corem]

But if you really like speculation:

AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost.

I speculate that your will get some fat dividends soon.

That is simply absurd. When has any company sold asics for zero profit? I highly doubt SP knows anything about AM wafer costs and profit margins.

$0.2/GHs which is very close to AM Gen3 cost. The reason is that those ASICs reached EOL (like our Hammers).
Absurd but true. Verified from two different sources.

Very close to wafer cost =/= wafer cost. Also I'd love to know where this info came from. Cheapest I've heard them selling for is $0.35/gh. I wouldn't be surprised if FC was flogging the chips for around $0.2/gh but I am positive he is not doing it as a charity act.

The information is correct. I got the same number from two different respectable Chinese system manufacturer.

I can't forget the following BS (I don't forget numbers):

This is to inform that friedcat met with the board yesterday and provided some updates.
...
 Order of magnitude: Depending on fab capacity. Total target is 10k to 40k wafers, relying on competitors, Bitcoin price, and other factors. A wafer is rated at 40 TH/s.
...

Guy

[1714190428]

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[Collider]

It isn´t too far off to think AM is selling their chips at virtually no profit.

Their chip is simply outdated and they thereby hope to recover atleast some of their cost by selling the wafers they had produced.

It is hard to reach 0.7W/GH at the wall with them, even when undervolting.

[JoTheKhan]

But if you really like speculation:

AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost.

I speculate that your will get some fat dividends soon.

That is simply absurd. When has any company sold asics for zero profit? I highly doubt SP knows anything about AM wafer costs and profit margins.

$0.2/GHs which is very close to AM Gen3 cost. The reason is that those ASICs reached EOL (like our Hammers).
Absurd but true. Verified from two different sources.

Very close to wafer cost =/= wafer cost. Also I'd love to know where this info came from. Cheapest I've heard them selling for is $0.35/gh. I wouldn't be surprised if FC was flogging the chips for around $0.2/gh but I am positive he is not doing it as a charity act.

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

[Collider]

DataTank hasn´t comitted to any ASIC manufacturer yet, afaik.

They only did a calculation of hardware cost IF they deployed now, and they mentioned AM as an example.

They would be dumb to commit to a chip with atleast 50% higher power consumption compared to the competition.

They also cannot judge how the chip / device market will look like at their time of deployment, as this is atleast 3 months in the future.


However, they will be releasing an update soon, so let´s wait for that.
To all the AM fanboys: please don´t feel discouraged in buying DataTank shares by this, as obviously they have to give themselves the best chance of success,
using high efficiency and cheap hardware at the date of deployment.

[jimmothy]

DataTank hasn´t comitted to any ASIC manufacturer yet, afaik.

They only did a calculation of hardware cost IF they deployed now, and they mentioned AM as an example.

They would be dumb to commit to a chip with atleast 50% higher power consumption compared to the competition.

They also cannot judge how the chip / device market will look like at their time of deployment, as this is atleast 3 months in the future.


However, they will be releasing an update soon, so let´s wait for that.
To all the AM fanboys: please don´t feel discouraged in buying DataTank shares by this, as obviously they have to give themselves the best chance of success,
using high efficiency and cheap hardware at the date of deployment.

I mostly agree with this. There is a huge chance that bitmain/spondoolies/other chips end up in the datatanks.

Although AM does have a closer relationship with DT than you make it sound. Even if they don't primarily use AM chips I expect a few PH will still be used/franchised.

Also 50% better seems a bit of an exaggeration for next gen considering they tested AM HW at 0.6w/gh at the wall.

[RoadStress]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

What would be AM's benefit from this barter?

I mostly agree with this. There is a huge chance that bitmain/spondoolies/other chips end up in the datatanks.

Although AM does have a closer relationship with DT than you make it sound. Even if they don't primarily use AM chips I expect a few PH will still be used/franchised.

Also 50% better seems a bit of an exaggeration for next gen considering they tested AM HW at 0.6w/gh at the wall.

SP30 chips will be 0.35W/GH at chip level so ~0.4W/GH at wall. You can fit 50% more hashrate for the same power draw. It's not an exaggeration.

[JoTheKhan]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

What would be AM's benefit from this barter?

I mostly agree with this. There is a huge chance that bitmain/spondoolies/other chips end up in the datatanks.

Although AM does have a closer relationship with DT than you make it sound. Even if they don't primarily use AM chips I expect a few PH will still be used/franchised.

Also 50% better seems a bit of an exaggeration for next gen considering they tested AM HW at 0.6w/gh at the wall.

SP30 chips will be 0.35W/GH at chip level so ~0.4W/GH at wall. You can fit 50% more hashrate for the same power draw. It's not an exaggeration.

The bolded line doesn't benefit AM. But AM making a 80/20, or 60/40 or X/Y profit split with DM using AM Chips and DM's Tanks benefits both parties. The same way SP would get a benefit making the same or a similar deal. To answer your questions: "What would be AM's benefit from this barter?"

EDIT: I am only trying to suggest that maybe Spon has inaccurate information and maybe AM isn't selling chips at cost, but is instead transferring them to another party due to some arrangement that benefits both parties, such like the deal DM just claimed to make to save them money and get themselves hashing sooner.

[Guy Corem]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk.

[JoTheKhan]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk.

You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you.

I wonder if the board is aware of this then..

[whonesta]

Please keep this thread on topic.  All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the subject set by the original post.  The incessant name-calling and allegations related to other vendors and unrelated to this thread do not belong here.  Complaints about things being removed from this thread do not belong here. (I will also remove this post, once it's been around enough for people to see it— replies to it, again, do not belong here).

Maybe you should remove s1gs3gv post above you because this is the third time when he is asking about ROI and it was answered both previous times. This is getting boring now. And as previously said this thread should be about the actual hardware and the actual company, not about ROI speculation. (of course feel free to delete this post too)

Then change the title to something NOT related to ROI, like the lie that it is best $/GH/s NOT a truth so I come here to argue why not? Lower the price to meet the market or stop spamming the boards with this FALSE advertisement. Maybe something like "USED TO BE the BEST"

And why is Russ in here spamming about his scam TEK coin, is that topic related..  BS is all I smell.

[s1gs3gv]

Then change the title to something NOT related to ROI, like the lie that it is best $/GH/s NOT a truth so I come here to argue why not? Lower the price to meet the market or stop spamming the boards with this FALSE advertisement. Maybe something like "USED TO BE the BEST"

And why is Russ in here spamming about his scam TEK coin, is that topic related..  BS is all I smell.

Whonesta, these people are allergic to ROI discussions. They want to either bury ROI discussions in other threads where customers are less likely to see them or distract people from thinking about ROI with feel good topics like p2pool, discussions of altcoin profitability, or ad hominem attacks on anyone who asks a difficult question.

The reason for this is that the SP30 ROI story is scary.

Its getting awfully like an IETF namedroppers meeting in here these days.

~L)L~

[Guy Corem]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk.

You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you.

I wonder if the board is aware of this then..

Two bulk customers.

[dmcdad]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk.

You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you.

I wonder if the board is aware of this then..

Two bulk customers.

How many PH of chips did they buy? Surely if they told you the price they paid they also gave you a ballpark of the quantity.

Update: I just noticed you said, "40 PH/s of A1s" What is an A1s? That isn't an AM chip.

[jimmothy]

How many PH of chips did they buy? Surely if they told you the price they paid they also gave you a ballpark of the quantity.

+1

Also is it chips or wafers? In hand or a preorder for the next batch?

[Guy Corem]

I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.

No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk.

You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you.

I wonder if the board is aware of this then..

Two bulk customers.

How many PH of chips did they buy? Surely if they told you the price they paid they also gave you a ballpark of the quantity.

Update: I just noticed you said, "40 PH/s of A1s" What is an A1s? That isn't an AM chip.

It's two different statements about the Chinese market, not related.
Chinese manufacturers estimates that Coincraft A1 is deployed at over 40 PH/s already. My estimation is that what drives AM Gen3 price to cost, in order to recover the investment. I've seen pictures of huge farms.
AM Gen3: we didn't discuss quantities, but those are in hands ASICs bought by two first tier integrators.

Enough about AM Gen3 here.

[webbrowser]

Passive 2-phase immersion cooling is often misunderstood. There is no need for a chiller, it uses a simple dry tower, which is essentially the same thing as a radiator in the front of your car or your water cooling system of a PC. And it also works in very hot climates.

The systems are designed to work with hot water (aka hot water cooling). It takes very little energy to cool water from say 70C to 50C even when it's extremely hot outside like in Arizona or other hot places.  (this hot water can in fact also be used to heat up buildings like schools or offices)

http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2014/02/bitcoin-2-phase-immersion-cooling-and-the-implications-for-high-performance-computing/



The PUE of less than 1.01 includes the _total_ cooling process, including device and building cooling. There is nothing else required. There is no trickery. In fact it's less than that. If you'd use wet towers, or a river near by, it would be lower. But why waste the water and waste time with an open system (needs frequent cleanup)?

Thank you for the explanation. We'll continue the discussion in HK 2014

I found the discussion quite informative.

What are your thoughts on IM DCs now, after having learned more about the process at HK?

All I'm saying is mount the Bitcoin mining chips (on small PCBs) directly onto your secondary cooling loop.

Why doesn't anyone (manufacturer + purpose-built mining facility) do this?

[Guy Corem]

Passive 2-phase immersion cooling is often misunderstood. There is no need for a chiller, it uses a simple dry tower, which is essentially the same thing as a radiator in the front of your car or your water cooling system of a PC. And it also works in very hot climates.

The systems are designed to work with hot water (aka hot water cooling). It takes very little energy to cool water from say 70C to 50C even when it's extremely hot outside like in Arizona or other hot places.  (this hot water can in fact also be used to heat up buildings like schools or offices)

http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2014/02/bitcoin-2-phase-immersion-cooling-and-the-implications-for-high-performance-computing/



The PUE of less than 1.01 includes the _total_ cooling process, including device and building cooling. There is nothing else required. There is no trickery. In fact it's less than that. If you'd use wet towers, or a river near by, it would be lower. But why waste the water and waste time with an open system (needs frequent cleanup)?

Thank you for the explanation. We'll continue the discussion in HK 2014

I found the discussion quite informative.

What are your thoughts on IM DCs now, after having learned more about the process at HK?

All I'm saying is mount the Bitcoin mining chips (on small PCBs) directly onto your secondary cooling loop.

Why doesn't anyone (manufacturer + purpose-built mining facility) do this?

I've really enjoyed meeting and discussing IC with Alex.
Alex is a terrific guy, passionate about his business. I wish him and AC best of luck. Really. I think that the eco system will become stronger if AC will succeed.
I still believe that it's too expensive solution for Bitcoin space. I'm under NDAs and can't elaborate.

[Another User]

....I'm under NDAs and can't elaborate.

Probable translation: unlikely to be implemented for home user devices; more likely in data center locations for hosting customer devices (assuming they don't self-mine, which they've claimed to not do).

[Guy Corem]

....I'm under NDAs and can't elaborate.

Probable translation: unlikely to be implemented for home user devices; more likely in data center locations for hosting customer devices (assuming they don't self-mine, which they've claimed to not do).

For sure all those deployment methods are not relevant for home users. Once again, our business is selling miners and ASICs and not self mining.

[itamidensha]

6TH/s @ 2,500W for $5,000 (8.8 BTC) in September.

Assume delivery on September 1st. (optimistic)
Assume low electricity cost of 5c/kWh
Assume difficulty increases of 15% per period (conservative, we're currently 4 days from an estimated jump of 29%).

The result? A net loss of 0.7 BTC before turning it off in June 2015.

What am I missing here?