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1301  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Poll] What anonymous coin will succed? on: August 05, 2014, 05:12:11 PM
So where does that leave us with anonymous coins ??

We've got Cloak, Dark, Key, and Monero currently getting the most 'play' ..
Is there a need for this category at all ??
If 'dark wallet' and similar apps are developed for BTC do we need these other niche coins ??

I suppose that people will try and 'data mine' the blockchain(s) for whatever info
they can glean about user's transaction history and clearly that prospect will deter
adoption of crypto by MNCs and by people who don't care to divulge their financial history
for all to see ( all of us ?? ) ..

Maybe the solution is a "dark blockchain" ?? is that even possible ??

Triff @off-my-meds.com

Monero is such a "dark blockchain". Without an esoteric attack to compromise your keys your balance and transactions is unknown and unknowable. You can't formulate a "rich list", because you can't see the balances of any single address.
1302  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 05, 2014, 04:53:40 PM
Maybe somebody can help guide me.

Using my wallet I transfered some Monero to MintPal.  I received a transaction ID
80b31d61c7862b8c94b2fc41536b9a89bb059c8f172e7b2c918a27fbef6b775

When searching http://monerochain.info/search this doesnt show up.  However, the funds have been removed from my wallet and MintPal cannot find it either.

Its been a couple days so it appears lost in the ether.

This is my first time searching a transaction so maybe I just need some help on how to find it? Or maybe I found an issue with Monero?

If you delete the wallet.bin (NOT the .bin.keys file) and re-open the wallet it'll re-scan the blockchain and rebuild the cache, and that failed transfer will be available again. Incidentally, it didn't fail because of not including the payment ID - are you sure you're using a current version of Monero, downloaded from the links in the OP of this thread? Transfers can fail to be mined by the network if, for instance, the incorrect fee is attached to it (which would happen with a very old or incorrect version of the wallet software).
1303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Anonymity on: August 05, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
It really seems a good coin. I have a question. What is "Adaptive parameters" under Features here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0

This part is interesting:
Unlike Bitcoin, your funds are not held in the address you give out to others. Instead, every time you receive a payment it goes to an unlinkable address generated with random numbers. When you decide to spend the funds in that one-time address, the amount will be broken down and the components will be indistinguishable from identical outputs in the blockchain.

The adaptive parameters are discussed in the CryptoNote whitepaper - a good starting point is our annotated version of the whitepaper (the annotations are raw, so just ignore the occasional piece of snark;) that you can grab here: http://monero.cc/downloads/whitepaper_annotated.pdf - a lot of it is around hard-coded constraints in Bitcoin and Bitcoin clones that are adaptive or flexible in Monero.

One of the key features that makes privacy inherent in Monero is, as you pointed out, stealth addresses. You only have one "address", which is not an address in the Bitcoin sense of the term, and when funds are sent to it the address is unpacked and the resulting key combined with random data to compute the destination for a particular output. This means that it's impossible to inspect the blockchain and find someone's balance, and if your address is leaked there's ostensibly no way for blockchain analysis to confirm whether or not you received funds to that address.

Of course, there are esoteric attacks that could reveal information about a sender or recipient, which is why ring signatures provide an additional layer of ambiguity. Basically, with ring signatures a transaction output is signed by you and by a group of random signatories (garnered from the utxoset, and the number of signatures is specified by you). Only one of these signatures is "true" (and that can be determined by the recipient), but to an outside observer they cannot determine which of the N signatures on an output is true, as they all appear to be valid.

Additional edge cases can and do exist that may "deanonymise" a group of signatures, but they are such extreme edge cases that they are not going to be a concern except where a sufficiently advanced and powerful attacker exists (and in that case they'd probably just beat you with a pipe wrench till they get your privkey and can access everything anyway). There have been suggestions such as enforcing a minimum mixin, and there's an interesting discussion on the pitfalls of such a system on the CryptoNote forum if you're interested. Ultimately there are many, many things outside of Monero's control that are more likely to unmask someone, such as them being caught physically receiving a marked package at the post office, but for the purposes of most transactions Monero provides a 100% working system in which transactions are cryptographically unlinkable and untraceable.
1304  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 04, 2014, 08:54:15 PM
Mumbles, the Devs very cleared stated what they believe to be important and non-important issues at this stage in the coins development.

The website just isn't important right now.  They've demonstrated this to you time and time again.  Yes, they said they were working on it and intimated that it would be fixed shortly. 

But it hasn't. 

And that's okay to me because I've listened to what they've said about the other issues they're dealing with.  And if what they're saying is correct - the website just isn't important right now.  What good is a sparkling fresh website for a product that isn't ready for the masses?  At best it would be considered a "bait and switch".

Several people have stepped up and said that they would code the design of the website so that the devs don't have to bother.  But the devs would have to bother.  You would expect them to deploy code without reviewing it first?  And that reviewing takes time.  And they've obviously determined that the time to do that is not as important as the time required to fix real bugs.

(And if you're speaking about something other than the website, like actual Monero code, it's on github.  Please show where you or some other complainer has been denied a pull request.)

Spot on. The design is not and has never been an issue, and everyone who has offered assistance has wanted to offer design assistance. That is the (relatively) trivial part. The thing that is taking time is getting the content right. I cannot begin to tell you the amount of time spent slaving over a turn of phrase and its implications. Nothing is perfect, and everything will change and iterate, but we want to things to be good from the outset and not have to spend inordinate amounts of time redoing it later. It's bad enough that we have to refactor a metric ton of CryptoNote reference code as we go;)
1305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 04, 2014, 08:50:49 PM
What do you guys (the devs) think about the possibility of trezor support? Would it even be possible? I'm thinking probably not since the trezor is producing Secp256k1 signatures and inorder to produce a valid signature on monero it would need to be a ring signature (idk what that standard is called but its probably not Secp256k1). Is it just the case that inorder to have something like a trezor it will have to be purpose built for cryptonote platforms?

I haven't dug into the Trezor internals, but I'd guess that it would need a Trezor of its own to work. I'm unsure as to whether or not the hardware is general purpose enough to handle the ring signature stuff. It's definitely something to consider, but then again once there is demand and utility you may find a completely different crowd up and beats Trezor at their own game, you know how these things go:)
1306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Anonymity on: August 04, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
It's well known that Monero (the largest CryptoNote-based coin) provides cryptographically unlinkable and untraceable transactions, a trait it shares with all of the CryptoNote-based coins.

One of the points that is often not mentioned with the Bitcoin-forked altcoins that claim anonymous transactions is that you have to give out your recipient address to receive coins. The process in-between may protect the sender, but if the receiver's address is found (eg. mentioned on a forum or on IRC once) the receiver is at-risk, since it can be seen that they received a transaction of a certain amount.
1307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 04, 2014, 04:36:18 PM
I can understand your annoyance with my post.  Perhaps I should be more clear.   My twelve year old niece could greatly improve the look and feel of the current website and the content on it.  Just go to the webpage and click on the "Getting Started" link.  The layout is horrible.  Text is all over the place, there's not enough left margin, the menu that is on every other page is missing.  I only bring this up because there have been numerous posts from one member or another of the "Team" stating that the "Final Touches" were being put on the new website.  This was over a month ago.  There have also been numerous individuals that have volunteered to help and their offers were declined.  Maybe a new website is about to be unveiled and in that case I'll be eating crow.

I fully agree with you - the Getting Started thing was a stop-gap that David threw together when we moved from the old Wordpress site to a static HTML dump because the site was getting hammered. We've been chasing our tails to deal with stuff like that whilst get everything else done in parallel, but we are getting there:)
1308  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 03, 2014, 07:09:10 PM
Does anyone know of a place where bounties are kept up with? If not i will start a thread.

We've rejected the notion of bounties for two reasons:

1. The amount contributed is rarely - if ever - close to a level of compensation a REALLY competent developer (or even a development team) expects. Very occasionally this is mitigated by someone who is willing to take a huge hit based on the potential future value of the bounty.

2. More often than not, it becomes a race to the bottom. A competent developer will spend a lot of time discussing, architecting, scoping, and planning before writing a single line of code. A bounty encourages a writing-code-so-that-it-kinda-works style of development. In the end, we are left with poorly thought out code that we have to maintain.
1309  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 03, 2014, 07:02:06 PM
Hi 2 all!

I was on vacations, may be I omitted something important... Does anybody know, when new monero missive come?
I see the latest, from July 23...

This week's hasn't been released yet - we're busy working on it at the moment:)
1310  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 03, 2014, 07:01:26 PM
Yes curious isn't it?  They have stated that a new website was just about ready more than once.  If they don't care about a website then they should just say so.  It doesn't make much sense.  It's not rocket science.  My twelve year old niece could put up a better website in a couple of hours.  But in the end it's really about the coin.  And this coin is starting to lose it's appeal.  At least for me.  Especially with the blatant manipulation by a few large holders.      

Really? Your twelve year old niece could prepare guides for every platform on how to install and use Monero, replete with screenshots, in the midst of moving goalposts? Your twelve year old niece could prepare technical reference material for developers that want to use Monero in backend systems? Your twelve year old niece sounds incredible - please put her in touch with us and we will pay her for the couple of hours she has to spend putting this together.
1311  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency on: August 03, 2014, 04:17:14 PM
Are there any preliminary agenda regarding monero.cc improvements? Or is it a special intention to keep it looking like abandoned home page as long as possible?  Wink

Surely it's a minor task but some people still consider web site as a face of the project.

Both its appearance and presentation of the information could be much better organized and it's neither difficult and time consuming nor expensive. Even a simple ready site template, for example from http://themeforest.net/ can help to advance the current level in order of magnitude.

There's still a ton of work to be done till this is remotely feasible. Can you imagine if we had the world's most beautiful cross-platform wallet website right now, but to use it you the software needs several gigabytes of available memory, and it'll max out your 20mbps line?

I lol'd Smiley

We are working on a replacement site. Throwing a $20 template up is not a solution, as the visual aspect of the site is much less of a concern than getting the content right. There are so many things on the current site (from an information perspective) that is either downright outdated or needs serious reworking.
1312  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why do so many coins use X__ as their abbreviation? on: August 03, 2014, 03:42:53 PM
It's for ISO 4217 compliance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217#X_currencies

Bitcoin is officially XBT for the same reason: http://www.xe.com/currency/xbt-bitcoin
1313  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: CoinDesk censors Monero, loses credibility on: August 03, 2014, 03:14:32 PM
This is just my opinion, but CoinDesk isn't a terribly credible source for any news. Their relationship with the Bitcoin Foundation and other businesses has been called into question on more than one occasion.

That having been said, I'm not sure if we want a ton of press coverage for Monero just yet. It's still in its infancy, and there is a lot of work to be done before we can provide utility and ease of use. The press coverage will come:)
1314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Did Pinkcoin pull a ninja move and actually get anon transactions to work? on: August 02, 2014, 09:30:22 PM
A truly anonymous coin would reveal no address balances on the blockchain. Simple as that. If knowing your WhateverCoin address means I know your balance, that already reduces your privacy.

Also, anything that involves swapping makes it really easy to reduce the anonymity set. If I send 1.3145 WhateverCoins and within the space of a couple of minutes an address receives 1.3145 WhateverCoins, then it's a pretty reasonable assumption that those two are related. The only way you prevent this is by making it impossible to determine address balances from the blockchain alone.
1315  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: ANON - Investors guide - which method will work best? - DRK,XC,CRY,MRO,CLOAK ETC on: August 02, 2014, 09:22:00 PM
There's are multiple huge issues with Bytecoin clones(Monero, Quazarcoin, fantomcoin etc etc) like blockchain bloating and scaling issues

But the biggest so far is: You're limited in the amount of coins you can send....especially if you're a miner and getting a lot of dust transactions, you're extremely limited. I tried and was unable to even send 50 coins to another personal wallet...That may be the death of Bytecoin/Cryptonote coins...

I've personally transferred 40 000 XMR in a single transaction when escrowing a trade for someone. The dust payout issue hasn't happened for a while, not since zone117x fixed his pool software to stop paying dust. Consolidating dust is annoying, but doable, and there shouldn't be dust payouts to miners at all in the future. To try and ease the effort required to consolidate dust, the wallet will try and automatically large amount split transactions over as many as 30 transactions (this is not in the binaries, but has been in the main github repo for a month or so, and will be in the next tagged release).
1316  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: monero vs BBR ? on: August 02, 2014, 07:51:26 PM
BBR has no chance! Monero to the Moon!

Monero will win this race! For sure.

Monero is the objectively superior coin man, dont get scammed.

This is the most bizarre string of newbie accounts and postings I've ever seen. Is someone trying to set Monero up for a shill accusation?
1317  Other / Archival / Re: delete on: August 02, 2014, 07:48:16 PM
why do they keep changing the tag?

BCX is BitcoinExpress, not the Monero ticker symbol:) It's still XMR.
1318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: All CryptoNote Blockchain Download on: August 02, 2014, 07:47:38 PM
I am starting this topic to help all the people who is mining or trading CryptoNote coins.
I will upload all the blockchains from all CryptoNote coins.
I know that the synchronizing wallets is taking to much time.
First upload is for XMR. Blockchain is the last updated on 31.07.2014

BitMonero (XMR):
https://mega.co.nz/#!apZlkJRL!7Nwh811G36loMqkjpSQXnsN0P90ete9IIWjYi-NP6Uk

AEON:
https://mega.co.nz/#!nxZ1WRwL!5OYsfUDgVsC6K-8dDWkUqJQauOqezU2TCQbrUMQBdJo

Whilst I appreciate the effort, hosting an XMR blockchain is not entirely necessary and may present a security risk. We do host the blockchain on our metal, and we superpeer with about 200 other nodes (including all the pools that have their daemon accessible) to ensure we're part of the general network consensus. Links are in the Monero OP and are always live to within a couple of hours.


1319  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: August 02, 2014, 03:20:28 PM
I think it's completely unreasonable to assume the eventual demise of all other altcoins. It doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Many people still question whether Bitcoin itself will end up being the market leader 10, 20 years from now. People are never going to stop trying to innovate in the currency space now that Bitcoin has opened people's imaginations(and wallets).
I agree with yldouright: you are not talking about money, you are talking about assets or standards.

There are some things who welcome competition and use it to promote innovation, while there are other things that are strong aggregators with a positive feedback loop: the more people use a coin the more that coin is useful (same thing happens with social network, for instance).

This will not completely eraticate every altcoin imaginabile, but is a very strong disincentive.


I think that we will definitely see the rise of a handful of cryptocurrencies fit for various purposes. Remember: even in the existence of a global economy, that wouldn't mean that in-game currencies such as those used in WoW or EVE are now redundant and every in-game currency is going to be Bitcoin (or whatever). Similarly, purely on a currency level, altcoins can be used for loyalty point systems. So I don't think we'll see the level of idiotic scammy altcoins we see today once the big shake out has happened in a few years, but that doesn't mean that altcoins will be completely non-existent:)
1320  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: rpietila Altcoin Observer on: August 02, 2014, 12:52:50 PM
I definitely would not say that.  The botnet problem is understated if anything.

I was there for Monero launch on the first or second day and got 0 coins mining with two CPUs.  There's just too much CPU power out there for really any CPU coin to be considered "fair" in the current environment.  Same thing happened with that Cryptonite coin.  Some guy posting about how he mined with 30 CPUs on the second day and got 0 coins.  I mean come on, just how many CPUs is one supposed to own to be able to mine a CPU coin?  These things are just charity events for botnets at the moment.

That's weird that our experiences are so different. I was using one i7 processor and got (>>10, <50) blocks with it the first week. Second week I threw about 4 more computers on it, with miserable processors (celerons/pentiums), leaving me with >50, <120 blocks mined after week 2 IIRC. After that, there wasn't much notable solo mining.

Same here - when I managed to get the blockchain downloaded and solo mining to work April 27th or so (10 days after launch) I told othe I mined 17 XMR in 9 hours on a Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1240 v3 @ 3.40GHz. At the time the daemon could do around 10h/s - 11h/s on that Xeon and about 33h/s on an Amazon c3.8xlarge slice, and net hash was around 7000h/s. To put that in real numbers, you'd have needed like 212 of those c3.8xlarge slices to control the entire network. If memory serves, you can fire 50 of them up with the standard EC2 account restrictions (5 in each zone). So I see no evidence of early botnet mining, and this was 10 days after launch.
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