[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[tuvok007]

Its their startup, they deserve it. Would you take all the billions from Mark Zuckerberg  ?

[kidyubyub]

Its their startup, they deserve it. Would you take all the billions from Mark Zuckerberg  ?

LOL, yes.... Zuckerberg is a government stooge. A rich government stooge.

As for this ICO, I wish I had more BTC to invest right now... but I'm working on it!

[Bitcoininspace]

Hey guys, I noticed there was no Avatar for it yet so I took the freedom to create one myself real quick, feel free to use it if you like: http://imgur.com/UbeUSrH

Ps. Although I must say I think the whole logo should maybe be reshaped, or reworked and some simpler that people remember more easy.

[TomArayaSlaya]

I'm not understanding how will you monetize all those crypti, 36M crypti it's a really large amount to sell. Or are them yours from the crypti project and this is a nice way to convert them in something better, lisk in this case without make it clear....

[Bigcabrito]

Hey guys, I noticed there was no Avatar for it yet so I took the freedom to create one myself real quick, feel free to use it if you like: http://imgur.com/UbeUSrH

Ps. Although I must say I think the whole logo should maybe be reshaped, or reworked and some simpler that people remember more easy.

Nice! Looks great.  

I'm not understanding how will you monetize all those crypti, 36M crypti it's a really large amount to sell. Or are them yours from the crypti project and this is a nice way to convert them in something better, lisk in this case without make it clear....

They probably wont monetize it, it'll be really tough selling those Crypti once the Lisk platform is out. Let's see what happens.

If you want to learn why they took Crypti though, there's a short explanation on the FAQ's

https://lisk.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207134329-Why-do-we-accept-XCR-

[balu]

Won't the collected btc and xcr be burned when the list money supply is created? I mean, it has to be. Otherwise what's the point? I seriously hope it will be burned in a verifiable way. If not, and the two guys will get to use this sum, this project will die before it's born.

Update: Found this on the ico terms:

"All collected funds (BTC and XCR) will be paid out, once the Lisk network has forged its first blocks successfully. Both escrow partners have agreed to this condition."

Paid out to whom?

[punkrock]

"All collected funds (BTC and XCR) will be paid out, once the Lisk network has forged its first blocks successfully. Both escrow partners have agreed to this condition."
Paid out to whom?

The current core devs of Lisk (Max & Olivier) get the donated BTC & XCR. The donators get their LISK. Max and Olivier will use every donated BTC and XCR for Lisk.

[cannabanana]

Won't the collected btc and xcr be burned when the list money supply is created? I mean, it has to be. Otherwise what's the point? I seriously hope it will be burned in a verifiable way. If not, and the two guys will get to use this sum, this project will die before it's born.

Update: Found this on the ico terms:

"All collected funds (BTC and XCR) will be paid out, once the Lisk network has forged its first blocks successfully. Both escrow partners have agreed to this condition."

Paid out to whom?

If you buy some stock in microsoft, you think they burn the dollars you use? lol

[balu]

If you buy some stock in microsoft, you think they burn the dollars you use? lol

Yes. (I don't even bother answering this)

The current core devs of Lisk (Max & Olivier) get the donated BTC & XCR. The donators get their LISK. Max and Olivier will use every donated BTC and XCR for Lisk.

So if I understand it correctly, Max and Oliver will receive between 1 and 3 (just an estimate) million $, and 4 million list each.

I have multiple issues with this. When counterparty was in the same phase, they wrote a blog post explaining why they choose proof-of-burn.
http://counterparty.io/news/why-proof-of-burn/

The biggest issue is that value is created out of thin air like this, which is unsustainable. There is simply no point sending further btc to the ico. Some simple math (please ignore the incorrect starting numbers):

Now there's 2k btc paid, with 80 million coins to be distributed. If people add 6k more btc to the ico, it will each 8k, and the same amount of coins will be distributed proportionally.
But what if ico finished at 2k, and the 6k additional btc was added as a market order after the ico? Price would be statistically the same (same amount of btc went into the lisk market), but profit distribution would be different, as all the profit that would go to Max and Co. would be spread between the ico sponsors.

And the biggest difference comes here. Max and Oliver will realize the BTC profit immediately (well it's not their choice, that's how the system is set up). In the second case however, people will not necessarily realize their profit (they will partly stay in lisk, despite the price increase), which will result in a higher market cap.

So please, read the linked blog post, and think about proof of burn. It would give an incredible amount of legitimacy of the project. Oh, and it would legitimize the 4-4 million lisk as well a bit (it would be a justifiable sum, but on top of $1m+ it definitely isn't)

[rezilient]

-snip-

It was already stated and changing it suddenly would make people more confused.

[thandie]

- snip -

I agree. I think it's only "good" for all the people who asking every 10 posts, what the current price is. Maybe It's possible to add "some math" into the script, so it will show nearly the same as your sheet?

Two changes would go a long way (1) use a constant 13 BTC per 1M XCR as the conversion factor instead of the current market price for Crypti;  (2) applying a 15% escalation factor for the first 1350 BTC collected, and 10% escalation factor on BTC collected thereafter.  This mod could be changed to 5% in the third week and 0% in the last week.

Nuno, Max - you OK with such mods?

Code updated to include first week bonus and XCR fixed priced.

Also grabbing amounts from exchange.json now.

1 Lisk = 3308 satoshi

Source code

Code:

<?php
//GET AMOUNTS FROM EXCHANGE.JSON
$liskJSON = json_decode(file_get_contents("https://ico.lisk.io/exchanges.json"), true);

//GET BITCOIN PRICE
$priceBTC = json_decode(file_get_contents("http://coinmarketcap-nexuist.rhcloud.com/api/btc/price"), true)["usd"];

//SETUP PRICE VARS
$bitcoinICO = 0;

//GRAB AMOUNTS FROM ICO.LISK.IO
$bitcoinICO = $liskJSON["bitcoin"]+$liskJSON["shapeshift"];
$cryptiICO = $liskJSON["crypti"];

//CONVERT CRYPTI AMOUNT TO BTC
$bitcoinICO+=($cryptiICO*13)/1000000;

//GET REMAINING BTC
$remainingBTC = $bitcoinICO-1350;

//FIRST WEEK = 1350+15%
$firstWeekBTC = 1552.5;

//PUT IT ALL TOGHETER
$bitcoinICO = $firstWeekBTC+($remainingBTC*1.1);

//CALCULATE LISK PRICE AND CONVERT TO SATOSHI
$liskPriceBTC = ($bitcoinICO/85000000);
$liskPriceBTCRound = round($liskPriceBTC*100000000);

//CONVERT LISK PRICE TO USD AND FORMAT TO 5 DECIMAL PLACES
$liskPriceUSD = number_format((float)($liskPriceBTC*$priceBTC), 5, '.', '');

header("Content-Type: image/png");
//OPEN LISK LOGO
$im = imageCreateFromPng("/var/www/html/lisk/lisk.png");
//DEAL WITH OPACITY
imageAlphaBlending($im, true);
imageSaveAlpha($im, true);

//SETUP TEXT COLOR
$text_color = imagecolorallocate($im, 0, 0, 0);

//ADD TEXT TO LISK LOGO
imagestring($im, 3, 120, 95,  "1 Lisk = " . $liskPriceBTCRound . " Satoshi", $text_color);
imagestring($im, 3, 120, 110,  "1 Lisk = " . $liskPriceUSD . " USD", $text_color);

//SAVE IMAGE
imagepng($im, "/var/www/html/lisk/lisk_price.png");

//CLEAN BUFFER
imagedestroy($im);

?>

Ahhh... that's interesting.

[Bigcabrito]

If you buy some stock in microsoft, you think they burn the dollars you use? lol

Yes. (I don't even bother answering this)

The current core devs of Lisk (Max & Olivier) get the donated BTC & XCR. The donators get their LISK. Max and Olivier will use every donated BTC and XCR for Lisk.

So if I understand it correctly, Max and Oliver will receive between 1 and 3 (just an estimate) million $, and 4 million list each.

I have multiple issues with this. When counterparty was in the same phase, they wrote a blog post explaining why they choose proof-of-burn.
http://counterparty.io/news/why-proof-of-burn/

The biggest issue is that value is created out of thin air like this, which is unsustainable. There is simply no point sending further btc to the ico. Some simple math (please ignore the incorrect starting numbers):

Now there's 2k btc paid, with 80 million coins to be distributed. If people add 6k more btc to the ico, it will each 8k, and the same amount of coins will be distributed proportionally.
But what if ico finished at 2k, and the 6k additional btc was added as a market order after the ico? Price would be statistically the same (same amount of btc went into the lisk market), but profit distribution would be different, as all the profit that would go to Max and Co. would be spread between the ico sponsors.

And the biggest difference comes here. Max and Oliver will realize the BTC profit immediately (well it's not their choice, that's how the system is set up). In the second case however, people will not necessarily realize their profit (they will partly stay in lisk, despite the price increase), which will result in a higher market cap.

So please, read the linked blog post, and think about proof of burn. It would give an incredible amount of legitimacy of the project. Oh, and it would legitimize the 4-4 million lisk as well a bit (it would be a justifiable sum, but on top of $1m+ it definitely isn't)

I am not sure what you mean by "burning" but if that implies destroying the collected BTC and/or XCR donations, then I can assure you Lisk will not be doing that.

"All of the funds received during the Lisk ICO will be used for Lisk and its future development."

"The funds will be used for different areas, like: salaries, research, development, marketing, outreach, legal compliance or infrastructure."

[Emerge]

Hope LISK makes it easier for the DApp developers to make DApps and users to use LISK with continued development

Hopefully a more in depth documentation as well

[karmacoma24]

Hope LISK makes it easier for the DApp developers to make DApps and users to use LISK with continued development

Hopefully a more in depth documentation as well

Absolutely, this is one of our core aims, to make it easier for developers to build dapps.

High quality in depth documentation is also another thing we want to aim for. The current documentation is already in the progress of being improved, thanks in part to it being tested by new developers coming to Lisk and trying it out.

Once you get past the initial hurdle, developing dapps for Lisk is an absolute ease, and I intend to demonstrate that through this documentation.

[cannabanana]

If you buy some stock in microsoft, you think they burn the dollars you use? lol

Yes. (I don't even bother answering this)

The current core devs of Lisk (Max & Olivier) get the donated BTC & XCR. The donators get their LISK. Max and Olivier will use every donated BTC and XCR for Lisk.

So if I understand it correctly, Max and Oliver will receive between 1 and 3 (just an estimate) million $, and 4 million list each.

I have multiple issues with this. When counterparty was in the same phase, they wrote a blog post explaining why they choose proof-of-burn.
http://counterparty.io/news/why-proof-of-burn/

The biggest issue is that value is created out of thin air like this, which is unsustainable. There is simply no point sending further btc to the ico. Some simple math (please ignore the incorrect starting numbers):

Now there's 2k btc paid, with 80 million coins to be distributed. If people add 6k more btc to the ico, it will each 8k, and the same amount of coins will be distributed proportionally.
But what if ico finished at 2k, and the 6k additional btc was added as a market order after the ico? Price would be statistically the same (same amount of btc went into the lisk market), but profit distribution would be different, as all the profit that would go to Max and Co. would be spread between the ico sponsors.

And the biggest difference comes here. Max and Oliver will realize the BTC profit immediately (well it's not their choice, that's how the system is set up). In the second case however, people will not necessarily realize their profit (they will partly stay in lisk, despite the price increase), which will result in a higher market cap.

So please, read the linked blog post, and think about proof of burn. It would give an incredible amount of legitimacy of the project. Oh, and it would legitimize the 4-4 million lisk as well a bit (it would be a justifiable sum, but on top of $1m+ it definitely isn't)

You're just another turd who thinks his shit don't stink and are holier than thou?  And no, companies don't burn the money that they get from investors especially in the way you are describing. why the fuck would they do that unless they are retarded like you.

[MalReynolds]

This thread is starting to feel like the endless NXT thread back in the day.  Good times then, good vibes now!

Code updated to include first week bonus and XCR fixed priced.

Nuna, thanks for this.  I really think it was important to do and I'm glad you agree.  It is hard enough keeping everybody on the same page about money matters here without giving them extra confusion with two sets of accounting ledgers with different rules and different bottom line satoshi prices.  Thanks again.

If you plan on holding long term, how about creating a contract that release a percentage of your LISK based on specific conditions? Some factors could be time and market cap.

Lisk is Max and Olivier's show.  They know how they want to run Lisk and have put terms and conditions out for donors to read before letting go of their BTC.  At this point, I personally think it is time to trust their plan and vision and not retroactively start putting extra chains and new conditions on them just because the numbers are getting big.   They have not done one single thing to show they have any malicious intent whatsoever. You have given talented guys big resources so they can try to do something amazing.  I say let's give them a chance to deliver for all of us.

I'm not seeing that as big driver for demand, you need lot of dapps and publishers, therefore the lisk price should not be so high.

One betting dapp with a volume of 100 BTC a day will already create a huge demand. Now imagine 50 IoT dapps, 10 betting dapps, 30 social dapps, ... I'm sure the demand will be there. It will just take a few weeks/months to pick up. The dapps need to be coded first. Before that all is speculation.

I'm not following.. I saw the dapps we'll be capable to use the Bitcoin API, if so.. they can easily bypass Lisk as medium of exchange and use just BTC. Is this correct or dapps are forced use lisk as medium of exchange ?

Dapps will become a competitive environment.  Bitcoin has one transaction confirmation in 10 minutes on a good day, and it has been having a lot of bad days.  Lisk has one transaction in 10 seconds, and it isn't ever going to get those transactions constipated in a maze of miners.  Higher reliability and 60 times faster confirmation means Lisk is going to become the dapp medium of exchange of choice, and will compete with BTC just fine.  

Already a very successful ico. Congrats to max

True, it is kinda hard to believe that the ICO is already close to 2100 BTC donations even after excluding XCR donations.  Congrats to Max & Oliver and the community as well!!

We are starting to get unreal numbers.  The Lisk ICO is hitting a "second wind", with higher 24-hour totals every day for the past five days.  There were over 300 BTC donated over the past 24 hours ending at midnight UTC.  

Day     1&2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

Donated BTC 801 43 131 109 190 106 63 69 113 174 314

Its their startup, they deserve it. Would you take all the billions from Mark Zuckerberg  ?

I absolutely agree that Lisk is the startup brainchild of Max and Olivier.   If they had not forked Crypti into Lisk, the whole version 0.5.5  sidechain / dapp codebase would be just about dead and buried by now. Instead Lisk now has a real shot at breaking into the top level of all cryptocoins.  What they did took guts and hard work under great personal stress.    

For the risk they have taken and effort they made, they absolutely deserve the level of rewards they have set aside from themselves.  They have effectively created a start-up company and given 85% ownership of it to people other than themselves in their first round of financing.  Of the 15% ownership they have set aside, they have committed to giving 7% of it away to others to further the Lisk cause and keep only 8% total ownership to split between themselves for a total of 4% total ownership of Lisk each.

You call this greedy?  You are crazy.  To use an English phrase, Max and Olivier have "given away the store".  Most typical tech startups drop the owners to a 4-5% ownership level after FIVE rounds of funding, not the first one.  For example, read Lemkin's comment in this post:

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Mark-Zuckerberg-manage-to-own-25-of-Facebook

And just for fun:

http://whoownsfacebook.com/

Yes, the Lisk numbers are getting large.  But don't criticize Max and Olivier for keeping 4% personal compensation.   That only shows ignorance on the part of the critic on how ICOs/IPOs work, not greed on the part of guys we should be body-surfing across our Lisk community mosh pit in celebration of both their generosity and their wild success so far.

I'm not understanding how will you monetize all those crypti, 36M crypti it's a really large amount to sell. Or are them yours from the crypti project and this is a nice way to convert them in something better, lisk in this case without make it clear....

Accepting Crypti in exchange for Lisk is a polite gesture to the XCR donors who originally funded the 0.5.5 code base forked from Crypti by Max and Olivier.  It allows these XCR donors to continue to participate in (and reap the rewards from) the continuing development of what their funding started.

To da moon for us all!

[cryptofanus79]

hello .i have a pair of questions..
1.. i already bought some lisk ,2 times, s i get 2 adresses and 2 public keys.
i understand that i can not create my wallet yet?should i keep those files  in a safe place?when it will be possible t create a wallet?

2.bountyes,, i liked in facebook , followed in twiter and give my email for updates and news .
when and how will i get my bounty coins

thank you  in advance gentlemen

[foxbitcoin]

hello .i have a pair of questions..
1.. i already bought some lisk ,2 times, s i get 2 adresses and 2 public keys.
i understand that i can not create my wallet yet?should i keep those files  in a safe place?when it will be possible t create a wallet?

2.bountyes,, i liked in facebook , followed in twiter and give my email for updates and news .
when and how will i get my bounty coins

thank you  in advance gentlemen

If you have done one (or all) of the following bounties, we will contact you on the associated social networks in private and ask you for your Lisk address. We will do this once the network is running at the end of March.

[FNetV1]

I have a question regarding the Lisk Terms of Service agreement, Section 4 (Your Responsibilities), 4.2 "End User Violations":
"You are responsible for End Users’ purchase and use of LISK. "

Taken from: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YIFQR0Ob08tgAHwUngn1NfQGE23jtsgsRTUq-OQvT80/edit?pref=2&pli=1#

So, this means that if I sell a portion of my Lisk to someone else that may be a total stranger to me, that I will be responsible for whatever this person decides to do with his newly acquired Lisks?  If so, will I still be responsible if I sell the Lisks at an exchange like Poloniex and then someone else purchases the Lisk through Poloniex?

 

[Bigcabrito]

I have a question regarding the Lisk Terms of Service agreement, Section 4 (Your Responsibilities), 4.2 "End User Violations":
"You are responsible for End Users’ purchase and use of LISK. "

Taken from: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YIFQR0Ob08tgAHwUngn1NfQGE23jtsgsRTUq-OQvT80/edit?pref=2&pli=1#

So, this means that if I sell a portion of my Lisk to someone else that may be a total stranger to me, that I will be responsible for whatever this person decides to do with his newly acquired Lisks?  If so, will I still be responsible if I sell the Lisks at an exchange like Poloniex and then someone else purchases the Lisk through Poloniex?

Maybe Axel Hellinger (iudica) can clarify it.

In my opinion, if you sell the LISK they are no longer yours so the responsibility falls to the new owner. Unless you knew he was using the LISK for something really really bad? I'm not sure, it all comes down to lawyer vs. lawyer mumbo jambo.

Concerning the Poloniex transaction, I find it highly unlikely you will be held responsible for anything the person decides to do with the LISK.