[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[LiskHQ]

Just for all those who complain about
8% of Lisk supply owned by devs.

Look at ETH, and 12% in devs pockets.
... and ethereum is in top 5 coins.

There is a very clever minds
behind both projects. Something must
to back for all this hard work.  

Ethereum devs didn't split the 12% between themselves, it is still locked inside an ETH contract visible to the public:

https://www.etherchain.org/account/0x5abfec25f74cd88437631a7731906932776356f9

OTOH, Lisk devs blatantly said they plan to split the 8% Devs share between them two 50/50, with no contract, no nothing...

I'd like to see the Devs come forward and address this issue once for all. We can't just take their word that they "plan to hold their Lisk for a long time":

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14105599#msg14105599

I will give you an answer only one time, all terms were clear before the ICO and are still clear. That means bitarri, if you don't like the fact. Then I advise you to not participate in the ICO. Thank you very much for your concerns though.

And now a few facts:

Ethereum's dev funds aren't 12%, they are 12M ETH. That means a total of 16.53% of the genesis block. They were worth about $305,000 at launch and now they are worth about $120,000,000.

While it is correct to state that the funds are locked down in a "contract" you can't come and say that this contract is something special. It's simply a smart contract, which has a special purpose. This purpose is only a 4 of 7 multi-signature account (according to this). Nothing more, nothing fancy like milestones or so. I don't know if they "promised" to pay the ETH out at specific milestones, but in the end that's just a promise. The multi-signature account doesn't prevent them to cash the ETH out, it just makes the account more secure. (I don't care about that, I'm just referring to what you say. For me Ethereum had all the rights to get 12M ETH. )

Lisk's dev funds are 8%, less than the half of Ethereum's. Our ICO currently collected 1/18 of the Ethereum ICO. That means right now the Ethereum team collected 36 times more for themselves than we do. If we have our funds in control by 2 people that means we are effectively in the same state as Ethereum with 4 people at 2x the amount. If we split the 8M into 4M/4M to each other, it's the same as well.

Our 4M are always visible in the blockchain and if you see them moving to an exchange, you can make your decision and sell. Due to the 8M it isn't our single goal to make an awesome platform and get many dapps. With these 8M we also want that the LISK price rises. If we now make up some artificial milestones, it will only come to problems. I saw this at many other projects already.

We formulated the terms before the ICO started and they are final. Until now over 1450 unique persons participated in our ICO and agreed to the terms. I don't really want to change things, but maybe we can add some more points like a contract. We will definitely address it in our business plan.


If you seriously have concerns over the 8M, please add me on Skype (ask via PM) and I will hear your reasons. Then we will find a solution. Maybe with a contract with Axel Hellinger. Or with a multi-signature account on Lisk. Thanks.

[DreamSpace]

What are you doing with the earned XCRs?

[starik69]

Millions of programmers understand JavaScript!! LISK is will be user friendly.  User friendly interfaces usually wins in the end.  If the masses don't understand they don't tend to invest.  The more individuals that can grasp LISK without struggling the more trust that LISK can gain.  Which will lead to a higher value per individual LISK.

This didnt help Crypti - DaPP contest failed

Can we start developing DAPPs already? Is everything available?

You can try on Crypti

[LiskHQ]

What are you doing with the earned XCRs?

First of all we will hold them for 1 month. Then we will see what we do. Depends on the Crypti network health and market size.

[s0nix]

Ethereum current value is the result of the combined efforts of the huge team that gets paid from Ethereum ICO. Anyone who thinks the 2 Lisk Devs can achieve the same results alone without hiring future staff is utterly naive.

The Lisk ICO clearly state:

• 8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.

The fact that they plan to split those 8m Lisks 50/50 between themselves clearly shows that Lisk Devs have no intention to hire any future staff, otherwise they would have set most of the Core team share aside or under contract to cover future payroll.

I don't really understand your intentions here.

All the facts and TERMS were transparent and clear long before the ICO.
If that's your honest opinion, no one compels you to attend.

But I wonder why you have added the Lisk Signatur?

[MalReynolds]

what is the difference between Lisk forging and Eth mining?

The main difference is that Lisk uses a cooperative, highly efficient system to add blocks to its blockchain, while Ethereum (like Bitcoin) uses a competitive, highly-wasteful system.  

Lisk calls their process "forging" (in the "blacksmith" sense of the word) and uses a continuous voting process to select the 101 people - and only 101 - with the best credentials to run network nodes.   These people cooperate and take turns adding blocks to the blockchain, one ever ten seconds.  Any particular person's turn to add a block comes every 17 minutes, and they are paid a flat fee of 5 Lisk at that time.  Only one hash is made to secure the block.  This means very cheap computers can be used like a $35 Raspberry Pi 2 or $9 CHIP to run a Lisk node, although a very low-latency internet connection is required because of the clockwork-like timing of the Lisk system.

Ethereum (and Bitcoin) have competitive mining.  Anybody can try to become a miner and spend lots of money on expensive, fast equipment that can generate cryptographic hashes.  Instead of voting, Bitcoin / Ethereum adjusts a "difficulty factor" that sets how many leading zeros the hash must have to "win" the right to forge a block and be rewarded with coins.    Miners then randomly generate literally thousands of millions of billions of hashes, ANY ONE OF WHICH COULD CRYPTOGRAPHICALLY SIGN THE NEXT BLOCK ON THE BLOCKCHAIN, and throw them away if the number of zeros in the beginning of the file does not make them a "winner".  The electricity wasted by this process is enormous and hidden from the public.  The stupid ecological crime called "mining" exists not to "secure the Ethereum /Bitcoin blockchain", but instead only to enrich miners in a get-rich-quick scheme.  This greed-based competition drives hash rates into unsustainable exponential levels that will eventually cause both Bitcoin and Ethereum to fail.  Bitcoin is already there; see:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

The simplicity, trivial cost, and microscopic environmental footprint of Lisk forging will replace  the unsustainable growth and waste of Ethereum / Bitcoin mining in the future.  Lisk IS the future.

So, no mining and 101 nodes get rewards... whats in LISK for small fish?

A technically and environmentally sustainable coin that is not going to self-destruct in the future like Bitcoin is now and Ethereum eventually and inevitably will.  A coin that will appreciate in value in the future because of its technical sustainability.  A coin whose primary core focus is only on sidechain / dapp development, instead of bolting these functions as an afterthought onto get-rich-quick schemes like "mining" and "gas" as Ethereum and Bitcoin do.

[MalReynolds]

The Lisk ICO clearly state:

Yep.  If you don't like what you read, then don't donate a single satoshi and just move right on to the next Bitcointalk thread.

Ethereum current value is the result of the combined efforts of the huge team that gets paid from Ethereum ICO. Anyone who thinks the 2 Lisk Devs can achieve the same results alone without hiring future staff is utterly naive.

The Lisk ICO clearly state:

• 8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.

The fact that they plan to split those 8m Lisks 50/50 between themselves clearly shows that Lisk Devs have no intention to hire any future staff, otherwise they would have set most of the Core team share aside or under contract to cover future payroll.

Oh, you're still here!

Stop spreading lies.  The Lisk ICO has received donations of over a million US dollars targeted to hire future staff and further develop this coin, and you know this.  The LISK ICO is only half over and may very well raise another million dollars to hire even more tech staff.  These aren't two guys saying they personally are the coin tech development staff; these are two guys LESS THAN 40 DAYS INTO THE PROCESS of raising the money to HIRE a coin tech development staff.  You know this too.  

The funds now exist to hire a GREAT tech staff.  One that is even (dare I say it) gonna be on par with the Ethereum tech staff (at least, the part that hasn't been laid off).

The whole point of the fixed 8% for Max and Olivier was to isolate their deserved reward for starting Lisk from this growing $1M+ CASH tech-dev fund.  By having a fixed 8% stake that could ultimately balloon into much more money than the cash development fund if Lisk is well received on the market, Max and Olivier are motiviated to make that ballooning growth actually happen.  The big reward for them is NOT to dip into the growing $1M CASH tech-dev fund; their big reward is to make the value of their fixed 8% share explode through solid accomplishments.  I want them to have that motivation so they make the value of MY Lisk explode.  

Unmotivated people don't accomplish crap.  If you think I'm wrong, then quit spreading lies about the Lisk founders, go start your own coin, set your own founder reward share at 0%, and come back here to tell us all how that went for you.

[Beoga]

I plan to buy in during the initial dump after launch.

This ICO is over-invested.

This is not the same as ethereum, where you had a well-funded team of people supported by banks, and lead by a guy who got a standing ovation at a major conference when he announced ethereum.

I don't think that someone will sell their LISKs lower then ICO price.
More BTC gathered from ICO - more potention for development and marceting.

[Calabi–Yau Manifold]

@up

Yes, I agree. Also if we see number of BTC invested and what will be invested, it's easy to see that serious investors are in Lisk ico.

Those people are not noobish kids buying something and selling 5min later to earn 0.01 btc and be happy, but people mostly in longterm run.

There're many sharks and whales into Lisk. Really big fishes are not only buying ico but creating healthy market after launch:

-walls support,
-buying more coins (many are spliting investition into ico and rest when market is launched),
-creating buy pressure at accteptable floor,
-PR action incl. articles, trollbox/twitter/fb buzz,

etc. etc.

Ofc if someone want to sell early, it's a free market and he can do it.

But trust me, rebuying much higher coins that you had in ico at cheap level is not nice feeling.

[punkrock]

[amanai]

Try to accept Lisk as well))

[poornamelessme]

I don't think that someone will sell their LISKs lower then ICO price.
More BTC gathered from ICO - more potention for development and marceting.

Early in the ICO I too thought there would be an initial dump, due to XCR holders cashing out. Now... not so sure. As you say, with that amount of BTC taken in, there is a lot of future potential. I do expect a dump (it happens with all ICOS)... just not sure it'll go below ICO prices.

I know some may look as ETH as a competitor, but it may be the reason the coin brought in so much, and also why there may not be as much dumping as one would think... I expect a number of people look at how ETH has done, and wonder if they just hold for a year, what the price may be.

[LiskHQ]

Tell us your best Dapp ideas & win great prizes!

Announcing the start of our contest for the best Dapp ideas. First prize = Raspberry Pi 3 + Lisk T-Shirt + Promotional Video!

Read all details on our blog

[punkrock]

https://i.imgur.com/pJwoXTX.png

Try to accept Lisk as well))

If you will have LISK till 20th of March feel free to pay with LISK.

[Splatters]

I plan to buy in during the initial dump after launch.

This ICO is over-invested.

This is not the same as ethereum, where you had a well-funded team of people supported by banks, and lead by a guy who got a standing ovation at a major conference when he announced ethereum.

I don't think that someone will sell their LISKs lower then ICO price.
More BTC gathered from ICO - more potention for development and marceting.

Im my crypto experience I've seen a lot of people sell their coin at a lower price than the ico. Dumbs are everywhere. We just need to be there to catch their dumps.
But of course if the price rise immediately, nobody will sell low.

[shadobitz]

Lisk is getting attention from big whales so many already in there because this project is looking promising and it seems will make rock and to the moon after it launched.

[amanai]

https://i.imgur.com/pJwoXTX.png

Try to accept Lisk as well))

If you will have LISK till 20th of March feel free to pay with LISK.

I meant once they be available.

[TomArayaSlaya]

Lisk is getting attention from big whales so many already in there because this project is looking promising and it seems will make rock and to the moon after it launched.

with all those btc made already some whale is obviously in

[nickenburg]

I plan to buy in during the initial dump after launch.

This ICO is over-invested.

This is not the same as ethereum, where you had a well-funded team of people supported by banks, and lead by a guy who got a standing ovation at a major conference when he announced ethereum.

I don't think that someone will sell their LISKs lower then ICO price.
More BTC gathered from ICO - more potention for development and marceting.

Im my crypto experience I've seen a lot of people sell their coin at a lower price than the ico. Dumbs are everywhere. We just need to be there to catch their dumps.
But of course if the price rise immediately, nobody will sell low.

Exactly who is going to sell there Lisk lower then the Ico price, that would be very dumb.
I'm not here for the short term gains i'm in it for the long run!

It is even smarter to buy it no since you still get 5% extra coins better investment isn't there at the moment!

[cannabanana]

Lisk is getting attention from big whales so many already in there because this project is looking promising and it seems will make rock and to the moon after it launched.

with all those btc made already some whale is obviously in

with xcr it's like at around 3200 BTC