Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

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Good job I would like to say to M. Vinales from the Yamaha club who has been the winner today of the match and congratulations to M. Vinales from the Suzuki club who in my opinion has a good score because it did not give the opportunity for several other big clubs like Honda to enter the ranking nomination The top 3 and really interesting ones from 1-3 are all winners from the Spanish people.

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[Koal-84]

Good job I would like to say to M. Vinales from the Yamaha club who has been the winner today of the match and congratulations to M. Vinales from the Suzuki club who in my opinion has a good score because it did not give the opportunity for several other big clubs like Honda to enter the ranking nomination The top 3 and really interesting ones from 1-3 are all winners from the Spanish people.

Very hard race yesterday, many crashes so all drivers the came to finish have points. Sorry for Rossi and Bagnaia but this is racing. Vinales makes at first time this year a fantastic job, also Mir the fight from a bad starting place on the podium, well done.

The next weeks amazing 10 weeks and 8 races, for the spectators good but very hard for the driver. The championship is also very open, all from the first 10 can win the championship.

[Cnut237]

you get the feeling no team will be able to significantly improve their car this year or next year, which is not good news.

Yes, next year's cars will be very similar to this year's, before the total reset we will have in 2022. Ferrari have all but confirmed they have no chance until 2022:

Minor F1 update.

The fact is Ferrari have no chance in 2020, with a shortened season and from a position so far behind Mercedes - where they are actually getting lapped in a race! Equally they have little chance in 2021 with the restrictions that have been put in place for that season due to the Covid19 pandemic. Perhaps with enough little changes they could be competitive in 2021, but it's a lot of effort for a single season before everything has to start again. I think the focus on 2022 makes absolute sense.

Confirmation of the above has now come from the Ferrari chairman (John Elkann).

Ferrari chairman says team cannot be competitive before 2022

"This year we are not competitive because of car design errors," Elkann said.
"We have had a series of structural weaknesses that have existed for some time in the aerodynamics and dynamics of the vehicle. We have also lost in engine power.
"The reality is that our car is not competitive. You saw it on the track and you will see it again."
Elkann said that Ferrari supported the decision taken at the height of the coronavirus pandemic to delay new rules aimed at closing up the field until 2022.
But he admitted that this decision, and the fact that teams have to use the same cars again in 2021 as this year, would penalise Ferrari "greatly, given that we start off poorly - and we must be realistic and aware of the structural weaknesses of the machine, with which we have been living for a decade".
He also addressed the team's decision not to renew Vettel's contract and replace him for 2021 with Spaniard Carlos Sainz.
"In the past 10 years we have had champions such as (Fernando) Alonso and Vettel, who have been world champions," Elkann said. "But it is undoubtedly more difficult to rebuild a cycle and ask patience to those who have already won compared to those who have the future ahead of them.
"We are laying the foundations for building something important and lasting, and the contract we signed with Charles proves it: five years, never so long in Ferrari's history.
"Leclerc and Sainz will make Maranello their home, will be close to our engineers. The new machine will be born with them."

It is also worth noting that Ferrari have now brought in world-leading designer Rory Byrne... crucially, he'll be working on the 2022 car rather than the current and '21 iterations.
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-rory-byrne-the-man-behind-all-of-michael-schumachers-title-winning-cars-at-benetton-and-ferrari/

Hopefully 2022 will mark the start of a new era where no single team is dominant, and we can see more exciting races with more drivers having a genuine chance of victory.

---

I don't understand why the Ferrari thing is kept secret, though.

Mercedes using a thing like Ferrari last year but they are in a different way with different materials and they can abuse the oil situation.

I'd imagine the Ferrari thing was kept secret because of Ferrari's power within the sport.
As for the Merc 'white smoke' being a rule breaker, I'm not convinced. Generally the teams that are stretching the rules are doing so in a desperate attempt to make up ground on the leader. The fact is Mercedes have been in a class of their own for years now; the pressure to bend the rules is all on the chasing pack.

[aesma]

I haven't heard about that (Mercedes doing the same), do you have a link ? I like teams doing "borderline" stuff even if it gets banned after some races, without sanction, otherwise they wouldn't do it. I don't understand why the Ferrari thing is kept secret, though.

It's not exactly this article but I can't remember where I read about it.
https://grandpx.news/wolff-seeks-answer-to-mercedes-smoky-2020-engine/

This is the only thing I found but I remember clearly something about this

Mercedes using a thing like Ferrari last year but they are in a different way with different materials and they can abuse the oil situation.

Ah yes the smoke, I remember that, with the commentators adding some innuendo. Mercedes is saying it doesn't know the cause. I'm reading this reddit with all kinds of theories, quite interesting : https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/hti59s/mercedes_engine_smoking/ . Some are saying it could just be crankcase oil venting. Others talking about coolant leaking (I can't believe that one).

Here a video of the smoking for those interested : https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2020/7/Hungary_FP3__Mercedes_smoking_under_acceleration.html

I must say if it was oil burning for performance it wouldn't happen in the middle of corners.

[Koal-84]

To compare Ferrari and Mercedes engine, i think we will see about the new or good development for the engine at 2021. Ferrari have already a new engine at test benches. But i don't know about the correctness of the new regulations, is it allowed to develop a new engine?

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/ferrari-to-have-brand-new-engine-for-2021/

"Next year's car will be a development of this one, but next year's engine is brand new,"

"We have already tested it at the factory several times."

[Naida_BR]

Good job I would like to say to M. Vinales from the Yamaha club who has been the winner today of the match and congratulations to M. Vinales from the Suzuki club who in my opinion has a good score because it did not give the opportunity for several other big clubs like Honda to enter the ranking nomination The top 3 and really interesting ones from 1-3 are all winners from the Spanish people.

I was expecting to see a Ducati winning the circuit but Vinales made and amazing race and didn't lose any rank.
It would be more interesting if Vinales was losing some places in the start of the race and then trying to get them back, but he totally deserved to take the win from the performance he had yesterday.

[AakZaki]

~snip~
also Mir the fight from a bad starting place on the podium, well done.

The next weeks amazing 10 weeks and 8 races, for the spectators good but very hard for the driver. The championship is also very open, all from the first 10 can win the championship.

My prediction is right for Johan Mir, he will enter the top ten and can finish second. Mir performed well besides that he also benefited from the racer who fell in front of him, Rossi and Binder then Miller entered the pits and did not continue the race on lap eight, Lap twenty Bagnaia who led fell. Lap twenty five, Joan Mir advanced to second place to finish.

[-CryptoViking-]

Ah yes the smoke, I remember that, with the commentators adding some innuendo. Mercedes is saying it doesn't know the cause. I'm reading this reddit with all kinds of theories, quite interesting : https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/hti59s/mercedes_engine_smoking/ . Some are saying it could just be crankcase oil venting. Others talking about coolant leaking (I can't believe that one).

Here a video of the smoking for those interested : https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2020/7/Hungary_FP3__Mercedes_smoking_under_acceleration.html

I must say if it was oil burning for performance it wouldn't happen in the middle of corners.

Well we can't be for sure, but the thing is that it is weird when it comes to that smoke, it happened on all cars that have Mercedes engine and it happens in corners.

Now you say that it wouldn't happen in the corners, but it makes sense if it happens in the corners too, because after you hit and pass the apex you go into the corner and start accelerating mid corner to "pull" your car out of the corner faster. So it makes sense for that to happen in the corner from my point of view.

Suspicions are there, are they justified and on the right trail, hard to say...

I saw that Ferrari brought back Rory, finally something noteworthy from them. Hopefully this a sign that we are moving in the right direction.

[dre1982]

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

[swogerino]

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

It is almost sure a Mercedes win in normal conditions as the track at Sochi greatly is in favor of the Mercedes engine as we have seen in these last years.Only a safety car or a heavy rain race would make this race beautiful to watch or a big crash in the start of the race.In normal conditions it is a sure win for Mercedes.

[Koal-84]

~snip~
also Mir the fight from a bad starting place on the podium, well done.

The next weeks amazing 10 weeks and 8 races, for the spectators good but very hard for the driver. The championship is also very open, all from the first 10 can win the championship.

My prediction is right for Johan Mir, he will enter the top ten and can finish second. Mir performed well besides that he also benefited from the racer who fell in front of him, Rossi and Binder then Miller entered the pits and did not continue the race on lap eight, Lap twenty Bagnaia who led fell. Lap twenty five, Joan Mir advanced to second place to finish.

That's correct but this is also racing, for podium or points you also must finish the race. Mir and Suzuki have a good pace this year and already good enough for podium. Look at Austria GP also Suzuki is driving to podium but than also the Suzuki driver crash that's racing on a high level.

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

Boring start to finish victory from Mercedes, look at the past years.

[LTU_btc]

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

I expect good afternoon sleep on Sunday. Sochi is one of the most boring tracks in current calendar. Even when Mercedes dominance weren't so big, races weren't interesting here. I don't have big expectations about upcoming race, but maybe it's possible that Verstappen will give fight to Bottas for 2nd place. He need to recover after he didn't finnished in 2 last races.

[dre1982]

~snip~
also Mir the fight from a bad starting place on the podium, well done.

The next weeks amazing 10 weeks and 8 races, for the spectators good but very hard for the driver. The championship is also very open, all from the first 10 can win the championship.

My prediction is right for Johan Mir, he will enter the top ten and can finish second. Mir performed well besides that he also benefited from the racer who fell in front of him, Rossi and Binder then Miller entered the pits and did not continue the race on lap eight, Lap twenty Bagnaia who led fell. Lap twenty five, Joan Mir advanced to second place to finish.

That's correct but this is also racing, for podium or points you also must finish the race. Mir and Suzuki have a good pace this year and already good enough for podium. Look at Austria GP also Suzuki is driving to podium but than also the Suzuki driver crash that's racing on a high level.

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

Boring start to finish victory from Mercedes, look at the past years.

That looks very boring indeed. Let's hope for some suprise happens at the race but if I check the weather forecast no rain expected so that can't be the suprise.  And it's not fair to hope that the Mercedes crashes into each other. ;-)

[Koal-84]

~snip~
also Mir the fight from a bad starting place on the podium, well done.

The next weeks amazing 10 weeks and 8 races, for the spectators good but very hard for the driver. The championship is also very open, all from the first 10 can win the championship.

My prediction is right for Johan Mir, he will enter the top ten and can finish second. Mir performed well besides that he also benefited from the racer who fell in front of him, Rossi and Binder then Miller entered the pits and did not continue the race on lap eight, Lap twenty Bagnaia who led fell. Lap twenty five, Joan Mir advanced to second place to finish.

That's correct but this is also racing, for podium or points you also must finish the race. Mir and Suzuki have a good pace this year and already good enough for podium. Look at Austria GP also Suzuki is driving to podium but than also the Suzuki driver crash that's racing on a high level.

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

Boring start to finish victory from Mercedes, look at the past years.

That looks very boring indeed. Let's hope for some suprise happens at the race but if I check the weather forecast no rain expected so that can't be the suprise.  And it's not fair to hope that the Mercedes crashes into each other. ;-)

Before the RedBull dominance with Vettel i looking a few more Formula1 races, but after this it's only boring races and really chance to win the championship only have one team. I already look MotoGP (before 500cm and Mick Doohan) after the boring F1 races i rediscovered MotoGP and watch the races before the Formula1 because the whole field and manufacturer is at a high level.

[-CryptoViking-]

I expect good afternoon sleep on Sunday. Sochi is one of the most boring tracks in current calendar. Even when Mercedes dominance weren't so big, races weren't interesting here. I don't have big expectations about upcoming race, but maybe it's possible that Verstappen will give fight to Bottas for 2nd place. He need to recover after he didn't finnished in 2 last races.

What you guys never mention in your posts is the midfield. I know that the front is the most important to everyone, but midfield this season is the source of fun and entertainment for me. It is so tightly packed and they provide very interesting races.

So I think this Sochi will be very different then what was the case so far. This season is atypical and races always have some drama to offer, thanks to that midfield.

[aesma]

Yeah basically you need to root for one or a couple of midfield teams/drivers, for example McLaren or Renault, then the result is not so certain. Ferrari and Red Bull can't really complain about Mercedes dominance (and mostly don't) because they enjoyed their own dominance at one point or another.

[Cnut237]

i don't know about the correctness of the new regulations, is it allowed to develop a new engine?

I think it's quite complex as outlined here:
https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/teams-can-still-improve-frozen-cars-for-2021/
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how-development-freeze-will-save-f1-teams-money/4797766/

Some development is permitted, but I'd be extremely surprised if there was sufficient room for Ferrari to suddenly be right up there competing with the Mercs.
Mercedes are so far ahead at the moment, that with the development limitations for next year, I can't see anyone realistically challenging them until the rules reset in 2022.

[tokeweed]

What do we expect from the next F1 race in Russia? Just another HAM and BOT on the podium again with maybe VER? Just hope RBR fixed the problems with the engine otherwise it will be easy for Mercedes again.

It is almost sure a Mercedes win in normal conditions as the track at Sochi greatly is in favor of the Mercedes engine as we have seen in these last years.Only a safety car or a heavy rain race would make this race beautiful to watch or a big crash in the start of the race.In normal conditions it is a sure win for Mercedes.

Even with new upgrades and tweaks, that Honda will never outpace Merc.  That has always been the case since the change to the V6.  

When was it...  Since 2014?  Ugh.

[coinlocket$]

Ah yes the smoke, I remember that, with the commentators adding some innuendo. Mercedes is saying it doesn't know the cause. I'm reading this reddit with all kinds of theories, quite interesting : https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/hti59s/mercedes_engine_smoking/ . Some are saying it could just be crankcase oil venting. Others talking about coolant leaking (I can't believe that one).

I'm pretty sure Toto said something like "we are using a similar thing to what Ferrari was doing in 2019 but with different materials"

[LTU_btc]

I expect good afternoon sleep on Sunday. Sochi is one of the most boring tracks in current calendar. Even when Mercedes dominance weren't so big, races weren't interesting here. I don't have big expectations about upcoming race, but maybe it's possible that Verstappen will give fight to Bottas for 2nd place. He need to recover after he didn't finnished in 2 last races.

What you guys never mention in your posts is the midfield. I know that the front is the most important to everyone, but midfield this season is the source of fun and entertainment for me. It is so tightly packed and they provide very interesting races.

So I think this Sochi will be very different then what was the case so far. This season is atypical and races always have some drama to offer, thanks to that midfield.

I actually wanted to post about it, but forgot about it later. If you ignore what's going in front and don't pay much attention to Mercedes, races indeed is interesting. We already had 9 different podium finishers and probably 4 teams fighting for 3rd places in constructors cup - Mclaren, Renault, Racing Point and maybe Ferrari. Middle of peloton is very competetive this year.
It's only a bit sad that we have 3 teams which can't even fight for points - Alfa Romeo, Haas and Williams. While last year only Williams were racing in their own league.