Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[LTU_btc]

So, after all these safety cars, red flags and restarts, Mercedes still won comfortable without any doubts. Last red flag helped them a lot because they had problems with tyres, especially Bottas and then they got chance to change tyres without making pit stop.
Albon finally achieved podium. It's important thing for him in order to keep his seat in Red Bull. It's pity for Ricciardo, he had great race and was close to podium, but 4th place is also good after all. And finally Kimi got his first points today, despite 5 second penalty.

Do you like the old school tracks?

It was interesting to see race in not typical modern F1 track. Here every mistake costs a lot, because there is no safety zones, like where Max basically stuck in gravel after accident. Overtaking was possible only in one place - DRS zone and first coner. But beforer ace I expected that there will be even less overtakes.

[1714615022]

1714615022

[1714615022]

1714615022

[Cnut237]

It was interesting to see race in not typical modern F1 track. Here every mistake costs a lot, because there is no safety zones, like where Max basically stuck in gravel after accident. Overtaking was possible only in one place - DRS zone and first coner. But beforer ace I expected that there will be even less overtakes.

The last two races have been interesting, but both times it was because of incidents beyond the drivers' control. We need races that are interesting not because of safety cars or botched pit stops, but because we have evenly matched drivers in evenly matched vehicles... but it doesn't like that will be the case until 2022.

Verstappen is the closest to Hamilton in talent, but he is still young and still makes mistakes. The Hamilton of the last couple of seasons has just been relentless in his consistency, an improvement to the already formidable driver we saw in the Rosberg years. No-one can challenge Hamilton until the car reset in 2022. Verstappen has talent but not the car, Bottas has the car but although he's a good driver he's just not in Hamilton's class.

I should add that Hamilton's position on the BLM issue has been impressive, too. He really has used his power in the sport as a force for good.

[coinlocket$]

It was interesting to see race in not typical modern F1 track. Here every mistake costs a lot, because there is no safety zones, like where Max basically stuck in gravel after accident. Overtaking was possible only in one place - DRS zone and first coner. But beforer ace I expected that there will be even less overtakes.

True but I don't think was a big problem in the end.
Often in other tracks where you can pass only at one point in the rest of the track, you lose a lot of time because the air is dirty and you can't stay near your opponent.

Here even if was possible to overtake only in one point to me wasn't a real problem since in the rest of the track they were close to the opponent and they could overtake him the next lap on the same point.

[-CryptoViking-]

True but I don't think was a big problem in the end.
Often in other tracks where you can pass only at one point in the rest of the track, you lose a lot of time because the air is dirty and you can't stay near your opponent.

Here even if was possible to overtake only in one point to me wasn't a real problem since in the rest of the track they were close to the opponent and they could overtake him the next lap on the same point.

It is a good track, fast and tight. I don't care that much about the amount of overtaking rather the tightness of the pack and the drama it brings.It was a fun race to watch and this shows that there are a lot of tracks that can produce much more interesting racing then most of those artificial Tilkedromes

[swogerino]

It was a great race yesterday.It would have been even greater if Bottas would not have slowed down that much in the first safety car restart of the race which brought a big crash making even more drivers go out of the race after Verstappen and Gasly were out in the second turn of the first lap.

[Koal-84]

Congratulations F. Morbidelli winning the Misano Marco Simoncelli World Circuit, Morbidelli made a pretty GAP in Lap eighteenth, with secondly he is completely comfortable in first place after that. Unfortunately Valentino Rossi had to settle for finishing fourth after being overtaken by Joan Mir on the last lap. But in my opinion, these results are good enough for Valentino Rossi. I was surprised today, two Suzuki riders really showed good performance in the MotoGP San Marino, they looked better than usual.

Yes congratulation to Morbidelli and Bagnaia, at a past race the two have no luck with his engine but perfect run for the two. Sorry for Rossi but the will make his #200 Podium place next week but definitely this year.

My suspicion that the Yamaha and Suzuki work well in Misano has been proven.

 

[dre1982]

It was a great race yesterday.It would have been even greater if Bottas would not have slowed down that much in the first safety car restart of the race which brought a big crash making even more drivers go out of the race after Verstappen and Gasly were out in the second turn of the first lap.

What Bottas did at the restart was way to dangerous for the back of the field.

The race was very entertaining. I didn't expect that much overtakes as there were.

[LTU_btc]

It was a great race yesterday.It would have been even greater if Bottas would not have slowed down that much in the first safety car restart of the race which brought a big crash making even more drivers go out of the race after Verstappen and Gasly were out in the second turn of the first lap.

I don't think Bottas did something wrong, he didn't break any rules. He started so slow in order not to give Hamilton slipstream and not lose position before the first corner. I think it's fault of other drivers who started to early and didn't noticed what's going on in front.

[Koal-84]

It was interesting to see race in not typical modern F1 track. Here every mistake costs a lot, because there is no safety zones, like where Max basically stuck in gravel after accident. Overtaking was possible only in one place - DRS zone and first coner. But beforer ace I expected that there will be even less overtakes.

True but I don't think was a big problem in the end.
Often in other tracks where you can pass only at one point in the rest of the track, you lose a lot of time because the air is dirty and you can't stay near your opponent.

Here even if was possible to overtake only in one point to me wasn't a real problem since in the rest of the track they were close to the opponent and they could overtake him the next lap on the same point.

This year is just an exception and you see classic racetracks, unfortunately, the classic racetracks don't have that much money that you can see them every year. Hamilton have more luck than Bottas but I'm happy for Kimi his first points and that ahead of Ferrari.

[coinlocket$]

According to Binotto Ferrari will probably skip even the next year for upgrading the car.
They will probably come with a new car but they will not invest so much waiting for the revolution in 2022.


About Bottas, he did nothing wrong the mistake was from Latifi who accelerated to early, around 1.1-1.3 seconds before Bottas.

[Koal-84]

According to Binotto Ferrari will probably skip even the next year for upgrading the car.
They will probably come with a new car but they will not invest so much waiting for the revolution in 2022.


About Bottas, he did nothing wrong the mistake was from Latifi who accelerated to early, around 1.1-1.3 seconds before Bottas.

Binotto is the false man for Ferrari, but Ferrari have not really options for next year!? Next year the development is as good as frozen (i mean only 2 major things) and the biggest problem is the engine from Ferrari. At time Alfa Rome is ahead with Ferrari so also at the aerodynamic makes Ferrari wrong thinks!

Mercedes sleeps not and make also development and bring new parts.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-design-upgrades-mugello-win/

[Cnut237]

It was a great race yesterday.It would have been even greater if Bottas would not have slowed down that much in the first safety car restart of the race which brought a big crash

What Bottas did at the restart was way to dangerous for the back of the field.

I don't think Bottas did something wrong, he didn't break any rules. He started so slow in order not to give Hamilton slipstream

It did initially look like it was Bottas' fault - even if it was within the rules and perfectly acceptable strategy... however, after the race both Hamilton and Albon (as well as Bottas) said the fault lay with the safety car not letting the drivers start racing until the very last minute. Apparently this has been a trend recently, although I was not aware of it until I read the article:

Hamilton said the way governing body the FIA handled a safety car restart, which led to a multi-car pile-up that took four cars out of the race, "put people at risk so maybe they need to rethink that".
The top three drivers all expressed the same opinion about the FIA's decision to delay the point at which the safety-car lights are extinguished, which defines the moment from which the leader can control the pace.
Hamilton, team-mate Valtteri Bottas and Red Bull's Alexander Albon all said the decision to do so at the last corner left the leader with no option but to back up the field until he reached the start-finish line, where racing can start, to reduce the risk of being passed.
At Mugello, this led to confusion among the drivers behind.
Haas driver Kevin Magnussen slowed down as he approached the line, reacting to cars in front. Williams' Nicholas Latifi took avoiding action and, unsighted until the last second, Alfa Romeo's Antonio Giovinazzi rammed into the back of Magnussen's car. McLaren's Carlos Sainz then hit both Latifi and Giovinazzi, who came close to rolling, before his car settled back on to the track.
Hamilton said: "It's absolutely not Valtteri's fault at all. It's the decision makers. I don't know who.
"They have been been moving the switching off the safety car lights later and later. We are out there fighting for position. Especially when you earn a position like Valtteri earned the position of being in the lead.
"Obviously they are trying to make it more exciting - but today was a little bit over the limit perhaps. But he [Bottas] did exactly what anyone would do."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54141953

[Juggy777]

It was a great race yesterday.It would have been even greater if Bottas would not have slowed down that much in the first safety car restart of the race which brought a big crash

What Bottas did at the restart was way to dangerous for the back of the field.

I don't think Bottas did something wrong, he didn't break any rules. He started so slow in order not to give Hamilton slipstream

It did initially look like it was Bottas' fault - even if it was within the rules and perfectly acceptable strategy... however, after the race both Hamilton and Albon (as well as Bottas) said the fault lay with the safety car not letting the drivers start racing until the very last minute. Apparently this has been a trend recently, although I was not aware of it until I read the article:

Hamilton said the way governing body the FIA handled a safety car restart, which led to a multi-car pile-up that took four cars out of the race, "put people at risk so maybe they need to rethink that".
The top three drivers all expressed the same opinion about the FIA's decision to delay the point at which the safety-car lights are extinguished, which defines the moment from which the leader can control the pace.
Hamilton, team-mate Valtteri Bottas and Red Bull's Alexander Albon all said the decision to do so at the last corner left the leader with no option but to back up the field until he reached the start-finish line, where racing can start, to reduce the risk of being passed.
At Mugello, this led to confusion among the drivers behind.
Haas driver Kevin Magnussen slowed down as he approached the line, reacting to cars in front. Williams' Nicholas Latifi took avoiding action and, unsighted until the last second, Alfa Romeo's Antonio Giovinazzi rammed into the back of Magnussen's car. McLaren's Carlos Sainz then hit both Latifi and Giovinazzi, who came close to rolling, before his car settled back on to the track.
Hamilton said: "It's absolutely not Valtteri's fault at all. It's the decision makers. I don't know who.
"They have been been moving the switching off the safety car lights later and later. We are out there fighting for position. Especially when you earn a position like Valtteri earned the position of being in the lead.
"Obviously they are trying to make it more exciting - but today was a little bit over the limit perhaps. But he [Bottas] did exactly what anyone would do."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54141953

@Cnut37 I too was under the impression that it was Bottas fault, but after reading the article that you have shared here now I too feel that it wasn’t Bottas fault. Also I feel that F1 authorities need to step out of their comfort zone and address these issues, because as Hamilton righty said that the lives of the driver’s are at a risk, and hence I’m hoping that they’ll soon sort this issue out so incidents like these don’t happen again.

[Cnut237]

@Cnut37 I too was under the impression that it was Bottas fault, but after reading the article that you have shared here now I too feel that it wasn’t Bottas fault. Also I feel that F1 authorities need to step out of their comfort zone and address these issues, because as Hamilton righty said that the lives of the driver’s are at a risk, and hence I’m hoping that they’ll soon sort this issue out so incidents like these don’t happen again.

Glad the article was useful

Their aim with this safety car change is to increase excitement in the races. The current rules and tyres were supposed to allow easier overtaking, but it didn't work out like that. 2022 is a reset, and the changes coming then should lead to a more level field, more overtaking and more exciting racing - I have faith that Ross Brawn knows what he's doing, given his hugely impressive record.

But for this season and next, due to the limitations on development due to the pandemic, we are stuck with the current cars... and unfortunately a Mercedes that is vastly better than the other cars. Even Hamilton has said that if were a fan rather than a driver, he'd probably only watch the highlights rather than full races. So the result is that the FIA are trying everything they can to increase the excitement. They are considering reverse-grids as an option (although Mercedes for obvious reasons are strongly against this). And the thing with the safety car in the last race is more of the same... it shows how desperate they are to keep the races interesting and ad an element of uncertainty. It's a difficult position.

[Koal-84]

@Cnut37 I too was under the impression that it was Bottas fault, but after reading the article that you have shared here now I too feel that it wasn’t Bottas fault. Also I feel that F1 authorities need to step out of their comfort zone and address these issues, because as Hamilton righty said that the lives of the driver’s are at a risk, and hence I’m hoping that they’ll soon sort this issue out so incidents like these don’t happen again.

Glad the article was useful

Their aim with this safety car change is to increase excitement in the races. The current rules and tyres were supposed to allow easier overtaking, but it didn't work out like that. 2022 is a reset, and the changes coming then should lead to a more level field, more overtaking and more exciting racing - I have faith that Ross Brawn knows what he's doing, given his hugely impressive record.

But for this season and next, due to the limitations on development due to the pandemic, we are stuck with the current cars... and unfortunately a Mercedes that is vastly better than the other cars. Even Hamilton has said that if were a fan rather than a driver, he'd probably only watch the highlights rather than full races. So the result is that the FIA are trying everything they can to increase the excitement. They are considering reverse-grids as an option (although Mercedes for obvious reasons are strongly against this). And the thing with the safety car in the last race is more of the same... it shows how desperate they are to keep the races interesting and ad an element of uncertainty. It's a difficult position.

Bottas make no start and stop befor the restart so he have not a fault i think, the same think Martin Brundle, you can read here.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundle-valtteri-bottas-mugello-crash/

At MotoGP it seems like Lorenzo is returning to Ducati, could this have been the reason why Lorenzo and Yamaha were the only teams that didn't test two weeks ago?

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/jorge-lorenzo-interview-ducati/

[aesma]

Very strange Formula One race. Entertaining if you like crashes I guess (Franz Tost seemed to think so). The big issue was the straight and the first corner, it was too easy to pass there, even without DRS. As a consequence, Bottas had to delay accelerating to the last meter, to avoid Hamilton overtaking him.

wiss19 : most car manufacturers never made inroads in F1, look at Toyota, look at Talbot, look at BMW, look at Renault these days, McLaren has gone nowhere since they've become a carmaker, Honda is only there with engines and it has taken years to become competitive...

Some of these might have fared better if they actually could compete, but with the spending restrictions it's made all the more difficult. Mercedes basically nailed it with their turbo V6 with an innovative design, and nobody can catch up. Ferrari had found a trick to get more power but they were cheating, now they're nowhere.

[justdimin]

The race was seriously one of the most entertaining ones that I have watched in a long period of time. I know that most people do not like crashes because it could end up very bad, it could end up with a racer injured and that is the sad part of the discussion, thank god that nothing like that happened and I am quite happy about it.

But, the fact that nobody was injured made the race a lot more fun, I don't know how "I want a lot of crashes without anyone getting injured" sounds to people, since you can't guarantee nobody getting hurt in a crash, but that is really all how I feel. Also how could anyone still have fun of a regular race, maybe few problems with few cars, 15 cars ending at least, 1 is hamilton and 2 is bottas, and three is probably verstappen, and think that is fun anymore?

[aesma]

A really entertaining race doesn't need crashes. Indeed it would need many drivers with the possibility of winning, many various strategies leading to plenty of overtakes... DNF are fine if a driver makes a mistake and ends up in the gravel.

Now I can recognize the entertainment value of a beautiful crash, like this one : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1akrmg but it's not really why I watch F1.

[coinlocket$]

Yeah you right.

A good enteraining rade just need more equilibrate cars, you can't cut 50hp from 6 cars with a secret deal while the others teams are using now the same "secret" thing in a different way.

AFAIK Ferrari was using more oil on the gas to get an advantage, was a regular but cleaver thing.
They decided to remove it.

Mercedes now is using the same thing but in a different way.

They ruined it, the second half of the last year was funnier and yes Mercedes needed to be disqualify for the illigal holes in the tires.

[AakZaki]

~snip~
 Yamaha were the only teams that didn't test two weeks ago?

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/jorge-lorenzo-interview-ducati/

From several articles that I read, I don't think this has anything to do with Lorenzo's move. Indeed, there is a lot of news that Lorenzo has spoken with Ducati but Ducati still opens up opportunities for all riders who meet the criteria to join the Team. Yamaha also did not explain it, even Rossi did not know about the problem and this made him disappointed that other manufacturers had tested it.