Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[beerlover]

I agree about Verstappen's being more skilled than Leclerc in Formula 1 right now. Maybe we haven't seen Ferrari being able to give a car without problems or having a good season without simple tactical mistakes. But it doesn't mean that Leclerc was still amazing despite that. Leclerc also made some individual mistakes which he accepted it every time. Verstappen is not a perfect driver of course but he is close to that. 

Because I don't see him making that kind of mistakes much. It is very rare thing for him. I don't think this would change for him even if he starts driving a much slower car. Yes maybe he is driving the fastest car which has a big role in his being comfortable about winning championships. But people still shouldn't be unfair to him I think.

Because he isn't an unskilled driver who can do a good job with only a very fast car. He can push to the limit in every car he drives.

I would guess that it is a bit of a mix of things. Think about how well Verstappen grew when they gave him a red bull car when he was so young, plus he always raced in a car that went well, not just fast and at the top levels which is also true, they were mostly top three at all the years he was there right? Then it could be said that he was given a better chance, whereas Charles got it later and he was always given a terrible car and a terrible team at that as well.

So when you combine these two together, I bet that if Charles was given Red Bull when Max was given it, and if Max was given Ferrari when Charles did, and we let them race until today, I am sure that Charles would have failed to get that  2021 title, but would have been an easy champion last year for sure. Max has the edge and better driver, but not by as much as the points dictate, the difference would have been lower if they were racing in a similar car, or just put Charles where Perez is and watch the fun .

[Luzin]

Looks great to see such new names topping the leaderboard but it is still a Ducati,which reinforces our views that this season is going to be a boring one.I said that Bagnaia should not have been worried for his slip in the past race but if he keeps doing it in every race then things will get complicated by him as he will lose a lot of points and the other riders can be cautious trying to make as many points as they can to keep their leadership.I am not saying this will be the case but problems can arise,nevertheless even if he has gone down 2 races in a row still Ducati is the team to beat and most likely Bagnaia is still the strongest contender to the title despite his recent results.

Yes, Bagnaia crashed in the main race, it cost him a lot of points. Rins and Marini are certainly lucky because when they fall they are already quite far apart. The result of this race made Rins rise to third place.  It's the beginning of the season, but Bagnaia seems unlucky in this series of races. This is Provisional rakings after Amerika Serikat Series

No Rider Team Poin
1. Marco Bezzecchi Mooney VR46 Ducati 64
2. Francesco Bagnaia Ducati Lenovo 53
3. Alex Rins LCR Honda 47
4. Maverick Vinales Aprilia Racing 45
5. Johann Zarco Pramac Ducati 44
6. Luca Marini Mooney VR46 Ducati 38
7. Fabio Quartararo Monster Yamaha 34
8. Alex Marquez Gresini Ducati 33
9. Brad Binder Red Bull KTM 30
10. Franco Morbidelli Monster Yamaha 29

Source

[AakZaki]

Certainly a bad result for Bagnaia, he had to crash at turn three. There was actually no pressure from the riders behind, but he failed to keep his balance and crashed. He performed well from the start, he had a wide gap with Marini. It seems that he is unlucky.
The beginning of the season there are always surprises and these two races we were shown by many changes in race results. It was actually Bagnaia who I found the most convincing, but he was unlucky this time. Luckily he won in this Sprint Race making the difference in points not too big.

[FanEagle]

It is true that Charles would have done better with Red Bull than Ferrari because Red Bull is a better car, but there is a very legit reason why Max is driving Red Bull and Charles driving Ferrari, which is the simple fact that Max is better. In any driving related sport, things are a bit different than other sports, because just talent is not enough, you can be the most talented person on a grid but if you are not brave then you will lose.

The chances of overtaking someone in a hard situation is not easy, sure if you are at the straight with DRS open then you can overtake, and Charles does that very well, follows up a person very closely and passes them on DRS, but Max can pass you with no DRS and a very very very late brake to take that crashing risk just to overtake you, he has no fear at all, that is what makes him so aggressive and gets him the wins.

[swogerino]

It is true that Charles would have done better with Red Bull than Ferrari because Red Bull is a better car, but there is a very legit reason why Max is driving Red Bull and Charles driving Ferrari, which is the simple fact that Max is better. In any driving related sport, things are a bit different than other sports, because just talent is not enough, you can be the most talented person on a grid but if you are not brave then you will lose.

The chances of overtaking someone in a hard situation is not easy, sure if you are at the straight with DRS open then you can overtake, and Charles does that very well, follows up a person very closely and passes them on DRS, but Max can pass you with no DRS and a very very very late brake to take that crashing risk just to overtake you, he has no fear at all, that is what makes him so aggressive and gets him the wins.

If Charles want a better car he has to earn it.It is not difficult,his driving skills he say are the best but he has to show it,he can overtake a driver with a better car,I am not saying Max as Max is a very aggressive driver but he can pass Hamilton,Alonso and Perez and show that he is second only to Max with a worse car than Redbull.If he manages to do so a lot of other team will notice his driving skills and will offer him a contract,even Redbull may do so in order to secure themselves two of the best drivers and in order to continue to keep the advantage they have.Charles should not just complain to Ferrari and hope things will change,he should start to show some driving skill,keep his head down until he improves his situation.

[LTU_btc]

While there is no F1 races, media is trying to get some attention. It's long shot, but Sauber boss want to see Carlos Sainz racing for Audi. Current his contract with Ferrari expires after 2024 season IIRC, and Audi will join F1 in 2026:
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/.amp/rumours/f1-rumour-carlos-sainz-to-make-surprise-move-away-from-ferrari
Sebastian Vettel can replace Helmut Marko and become advisor of Red Bull. And it can happen already this season:
https://www.givemesport.com/f1-sebastian-vettel-tipped-for-red-bull-racing-return/

[tokeweed]

I agree about Verstappen's being more skilled than Leclerc in Formula 1 right now. Maybe we haven't seen Ferrari being able to give a car without problems or having a good season without simple tactical mistakes. But it doesn't mean that Leclerc was still amazing despite that. Leclerc also made some individual mistakes which he accepted it every time. Verstappen is not a perfect driver of course but he is close to that. 

Because I don't see him making that kind of mistakes much. It is very rare thing for him. I don't think this would change for him even if he starts driving a much slower car. Yes maybe he is driving the fastest car which has a big role in his being comfortable about winning championships. But people still shouldn't be unfair to him I think.

Because he isn't an unskilled driver who can do a good job with only a very fast car. He can push to the limit in every car he drives.

Just right now?  Nah man...  Verstappen is has always been more skilled than Leclerc. 

And Verstappen wasn't always a near perfect driver.  You should watch him when he was 18 years old.  Lmaooo.  He was like a danger to all the other drivers around him.  It's like you feel everybody on the grid didn't want to start the race side by side with him because he's a serious accident waiting to happen.  Lol.

There was even a rule named after him.  The Verstappen rule. 

[swogerino]

While there is no F1 races, media is trying to get some attention. It's long shot, but Sauber boss want to see Carlos Sainz racing for Audi. Current his contract with Ferrari expires after 2024 season IIRC, and Audi will join F1 in 2026:
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/.amp/rumours/f1-rumour-carlos-sainz-to-make-surprise-move-away-from-ferrari
Sebastian Vettel can replace Helmut Marko and become advisor of Red Bull. And it can happen already this season:
https://www.givemesport.com/f1-sebastian-vettel-tipped-for-red-bull-racing-return/

So Vettel seems that he can't stay out of F1 for to long and that has been the case for many World Champions like Alonso who keeps driving at a not so young age right now and still enjoys it,we had Michael Schumacher before who retired and then came back again.In fact now that I am thinking I wonder what is Raikonnen doing,is he willing to come back to F1 again or is he enjoying life with his wife and kids as I see him on Instagram doing this second thing more than thinking about F1 or motorsports in general.

For Redbull it would be nice to have a talent like Vettel having a say as where to improve the car development.

[Davian144]

Certainly a bad result for Bagnaia, he had to crash at turn three. There was actually no pressure from the riders behind, but he failed to keep his balance and crashed. He performed well from the start, he had a wide gap with Marini. It seems that he is unlucky.
The beginning of the season there are always surprises and these two races we were shown by many changes in race results. It was actually Bagnaia who I found the most convincing, but he was unlucky this time. Luckily he won in this Sprint Race making the difference in points not too big.

The fall of Pecco Bagnaia also gave Alex Rins an advantage in the race because Alex Rins was able to maintain his balance in the race until he touched the finish line and won the race. Apart from that, Alex Rins was also the rider who saved Honda's face in that race because three other Honda riders had crashes so that the number of riders who crashed in the race was nine people and three of them were Honda riders. Luca Marini was also very extraordinary in the race because he was able to overtake Fabio Quartararo to take the second podium in the Grand Prix of the Americas race.

[retreat]

I agree about Verstappen's being more skilled than Leclerc in Formula 1 right now. Maybe we haven't seen Ferrari being able to give a car without problems or having a good season without simple tactical mistakes. But it doesn't mean that Leclerc was still amazing despite that. Leclerc also made some individual mistakes which he accepted it every time. Verstappen is not a perfect driver of course but he is close to that. 

Because I don't see him making that kind of mistakes much. It is very rare thing for him. I don't think this would change for him even if he starts driving a much slower car. Yes maybe he is driving the fastest car which has a big role in his being comfortable about winning championships. But people still shouldn't be unfair to him I think.

Because he isn't an unskilled driver who can do a good job with only a very fast car. He can push to the limit in every car he drives.

I also agree that Verstappen now has many advantages in terms of skills, cars and a reliable team. But it will be quite difficult for Leclerc to be able to catch up for now, because not only does he have to improve his skills, but the ferari team has to fix their car and solve their problems. Leclerc has potential, but he seems to have lost touch with his team which is a shame.

[FanEagle]

Sainz decision was a right one, the fact that it didn't get overturned is a good decision. He was the one that hit Alonso, if you check the car and check the wheel and check the hit, you can all see that it was not intentional, but he failed to go around that as well, he didn't hit Alonso like he wanted to do that, it was a mistake and I agree that full points loss for a mistake is a big deal, but it is a mistake he could have avoided and he didn't so there needed to be a punishment.

His issue rises from the fact that it was a rolling start and finish, if they had like 2 more laps, he could have kept his place, so the punishment was not a bad one, it was true, but when he got it ended up costing him so much in this case.

[coinlocket$]

There is a mall rumor about the F1 drivers market.


Sainz released an interview when he answered about his 2026 interest in AUDI, he denied it saying he wants to stay in Ferrari for a long long time.

[swogerino]

There is a mall rumor about the F1 drivers market.


Sainz released an interview when he answered about his 2026 interest in AUDI, he denied it saying he wants to stay in Ferrari for a long long time.

I think he maybe right in his choice as he has a couple of years of experience already in Ferrari and Audi will be a newcomer no matter how powerful the group behind it is,they lack the engineering experience that Ferrari has accumulated during all these years in F1 as Ferrari never missed a season without participating.I would strongly agree with Sainz choice.

On another note why I am not seeing a race for this weekend while it was chosen that on 24 April it would have been the F1 race in Azerbaijan and now I see is on the next weekend,did I miss something here as I don't think I have confused the date.

[wildan88]

The media loves to speculate about things like this. I don't think Sainz is thinking about that for a second in his preparation, but it is of course annoying when your name is mentioned in ways that are not positive. I don't think it matters that much that things like that happen, do you? That's how things will go in 2023. You can hardly say anything without being confronted with it again. But we'll see what happens with the next race starting soon. Verstappen does not seem to be able to be knocked off the throne in the normal race way. But it could still be that Verstappen's car still has some mechanical problems, since no car is 100% reliable these days.

[Captain Corporate]

I can definitely believe that if you could go to Audi for a good amount of money than you could end up with a change. Plus Sainz may do well for sure, interestingly he usually does better than Charles when in fact Charles was the guy that was the first driver and was considered future of the of the team. So Sainz could definitely still leave, I feel like thats going to be a bit of a case for many other racers that are barely in the league by that point, like Bottas for example. Mick could be a good decision as well if you could get him some driving time until then as well, dude deserves to race "somewhere", even if he doesn't race at F1, at least race somewhere to get more time and be ready for 2026, he is young enough to make that work.

[Pulsar77]

I don't know. I think it isn't very good most of the time to have two drivers who can be number one drivers in a team normally in the same team. Leclerc - Sainz duo is just like that for example. They are both skilled drivers and very ambitious ones. When I evaluate their skills I see them both as skilled enough to become the first driver of a team. But Ferrari wanted to have him in the same place instead and didn't want to have such thing like the first and second driver. Vasseur also made a statement in this way.

I think it is better to have a difference between two drivers in a team. Because maybe you are blocking the way for the more skilled one to become even the champion by seeing them equal. Formula 1 is all about tactical wars in the end. If they focus on the better performing driver then the probability of a bigger success would increase significantly.

[coinlocket$]

I don't know. I think it isn't very good most of the time to have two drivers who can be number one drivers in a team normally in the same team. Leclerc - Sainz duo is just like that for example.

Keep in mind we had several rumors in the past month for a possible swap between Leclerc and Hamilton.
I don't think it will happen but it was not a single rumor with a single source...

[tokeweed]

^  I wouldn't discount it as just rumor if we consider that Hamilton has been showing his dissatisfaction with his team as of late.  When does his contract with Merc end?  It would really be something if he won his next driver's championship with Ferrari.  I will def be rooting for Hamilton and Ferrari if he does get a drive there. 

[coinlocket$]

Small news.

Ferrari just hired 2 engineers from Redbull they will be in next year's team.

(they are doing what Aston Martin did if you can't beat them... join them.)

[beerlover]

I don't know. I think it isn't very good most of the time to have two drivers who can be number one drivers in a team normally in the same team. Leclerc - Sainz duo is just like that for example.

Keep in mind we had several rumors in the past month for a possible swap between Leclerc and Hamilton.
I don't think it will happen but it was not a single rumor with a single source...

I have seen those rumors as well but I doubt that they would ever be true. I am 100% sure that Hamilton will either retire at Mercedes, which is the likely situation, or he would be way too old to be there one day and do the Vettel/Alonso thing and go to any team that will take him at 40 years old. That's like the most possible thing at that moment, Kimi didn't retire until he was way too old neither, so it could be possible for him to retire like that, but as long as he can drive, he will be there.

Charles is not happy at Ferrari that is known and it is obvious why as well, he hasn't been given a proper chance and he got unlucky with so many team decisions all the time which is why I guess that Charles may leave. But I do not know if Mercedes would be willing to let Hamilton go just to get Charles, maybe some other team could end up doing that.