Ursul0
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December 06, 2016, 05:16:41 PM |
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dunno about temp benefits. I guess the miner is not the key here, the market and adoption is. I'm actually kinda hoping that founders fee would be the long term support buffer for ZEC, also their marketing efforts seems to be pretty good, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Red55555
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 05:30:13 PM |
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not that it's terribly important, but lots of people use claymore's miner. two indications: watching closely the hashrate on flypool(about 40% of total zec hashrate) when the new miner is released it would look like everyone is using it... also if you calculate the amount claymore made on his devfee zec account (the one posted here earlier) - it's 2.5% of the 10% of the total zec in circulation .. also it could be not the only one... yes lots use it but do you want to be the one to suggest the proposal to and coordinate it all with the miners. Dont forget Claymore will have got more users when version 8 was bundled with the nicehash miner. As was stated earlier all you would be doing if you mananged to make the deal with all the miners is create a artificial price point. In the end it is artificial indeed, though sustained through guessing how much people are willing to pay from zcash when the supply is manipulated. Zcash being VAT free (at least if traded to bitcoin) and it´s supposed anonymity may be the natural growing factors that make the price go boom by itself in the future. Though it doesn´t mean that we should allow coin dumping to reduce the price too much right now and centralized selling would reduce it´s effect in the meanwhile + the suppliers of zcash get a better share for their efforts? I´m just speculating though. One would first need to contact the pools and make the deal happen somehow. Not going to do that by myself that´s for sure . How about you @claymore? Maybe you could try?
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elzium
Member
Offline
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
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December 06, 2016, 05:32:26 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down.
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maxmad_x
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 546
Merit: 250
It takes a lot to build but not much to lose
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December 06, 2016, 05:36:12 PM |
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Here I come to try to undermine the zcash with claymore
But I crash after a few seconds
I get 180H / S per card, (rx 480)
This is what I put in the bat:
GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
ZecMiner64.exe -zpool zec-eu1.nanopool.org:6666 -allpools 1 -zwal my address wallet.rig -zpsw x
Do you have an idea why this crash?
thank you in advance
On Windows you have to add set before GPU... set GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 set GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 set GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 set GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 set GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 ZecMiner64.exe -zpool zec-eu1.nanopool.org:6666 -allpools 1 -zwal my address wallet.rig -zpsw x And don't forget: Virtual memory >16 MB. ?!? set or setx is true? set modifies the current shell's (window) environment values, and the change is available immediately, but it is temporary. The change will not affect other shells that are running, and as soon as you close the shell, the new value is lost until such time as you run set again. setx modifies the value permanently, which affects all future shells, but does not modify the environment of the shells already running. You have to exit the shell and reopen it before the change will be available, but the value will remain modified until you change it again. Thanks for comprehensive answer, but I asked what is more properly used and not the differences between the set and setx? Well i use setx as global, I don't think there is a "proper" way, you either set it temporary or permanently. I guess if you have various different cards you would use set, and if they were all the same use setx. My cards is all the same /RX480 Nitro+ OC 8 GB/ and i will use setx! Thanks! set needs = setx doesn't so good thing that you're going to use setx use setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 setx GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 Hello I changed my order, and I set set, or setx. Ca walk but ca crash after about 5 minutes, BSOD. My rx 480 on the bios mod. It are set for the hethereum with claymore 7.4 Clock = 0.920mv / 1200mhz Memory = 0.950mv / 2250mhz I wonder if the problem comes from the gpu settings. Anyone has this problem with rx480? thank you in advance Dude with bios mid 2250 is too high. Start with 2000 and ramp up slow. I use 2100 for @ 975mv which is the most stable for me. Increase core voltage to 1000 mv and start lowering slowly and test for stability over 2-3 hours at a time. I get 29.4mh at core 1110 @ 975mv and 2100 memory @975mv.
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Redcard
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 05:36:29 PM |
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Hello
I changed my order, and I set set, or setx.
Ca walk but ca crash after about 5 minutes,
BSOD.
My rx 480 on the bios mod. It are set for the hethereum with claymore 7.4
Clock = 0.920mv / 1200mhz Memory = 0.950mv / 2250mhz
I wonder if the problem comes from the gpu settings.
Anyone has this problem with rx480?
thank you in advance
I think 0.920mv for 1200mhz is too low voltage for your gpu. First try with 1000mv then decrease it until crash. And leave default memory voltage at least in the begining...
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ghostfaceuk
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December 06, 2016, 05:52:12 PM |
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It was mentioned on polo this morning that a eth whale was hacked and his stash dumped on the market. as you say it may account for a few other coins as well
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Red55555
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 06:07:02 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter.
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Altcoining
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December 06, 2016, 06:13:38 PM |
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Here I come to try to undermine the zcash with claymore
But I crash after a few seconds
I get 180H / S per card, (rx 480)
This is what I put in the bat:
GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
ZecMiner64.exe -zpool zec-eu1.nanopool.org:6666 -allpools 1 -zwal my address wallet.rig -zpsw x
Do you have an idea why this crash?
thank you in advance
On Windows you have to add set before GPU... set GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 set GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 set GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 set GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 set GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 ZecMiner64.exe -zpool zec-eu1.nanopool.org:6666 -allpools 1 -zwal my address wallet.rig -zpsw x And don't forget: Virtual memory >16 MB. ?!? set or setx is true? set modifies the current shell's (window) environment values, and the change is available immediately, but it is temporary. The change will not affect other shells that are running, and as soon as you close the shell, the new value is lost until such time as you run set again. setx modifies the value permanently, which affects all future shells, but does not modify the environment of the shells already running. You have to exit the shell and reopen it before the change will be available, but the value will remain modified until you change it again. Thanks for comprehensive answer, but I asked what is more properly used and not the differences between the set and setx? Well i use setx as global, I don't think there is a "proper" way, you either set it temporary or permanently. I guess if you have various different cards you would use set, and if they were all the same use setx. My cards is all the same /RX480 Nitro+ OC 8 GB/ and i will use setx! Thanks! set needs = setx doesn't so good thing that you're going to use setx use setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_FORCE_64BIT_PTR 0 setx GPU_MAX_HEAP_SIZE 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 setx GPU_SINGLE_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 Hello I changed my order, and I set set, or setx. Ca walk but ca crash after about 5 minutes, BSOD. My rx 480 on the bios mod. It are set for the hethereum with claymore 7.4 Clock = 0.920mv / 1200mhz Memory = 0.950mv / 2250mhz I wonder if the problem comes from the gpu settings. Anyone has this problem with rx480? thank you in advance 0.950 on the memory is low, from what i know. Mine need around .1 more then that to run stable 2250.
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dadach
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December 06, 2016, 06:17:23 PM |
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can you guys please advise?
i am running 4x480 and 2x280, and the machine is connected via onboard video. now in this instance i cannot control anything, but will the default settings keep the cards running normally, or do i need afterburner to up the fans just to be sure?
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To DA Moon!!! donations accepted >.< 38nvHaNqF5nv4ifhUyq9CChnBmRs2DSv4r
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elzium
Member
Offline
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
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December 06, 2016, 06:21:19 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter. Ok, u get most of hashers onboard and u start manipulating price... at the same time u promise to pay all miners that higher price. Unless u have some big buffer of btc (that will dry out), how on earth will u do both things at the same time? So we get to the first question, who will u sell it to?
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liksagen
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 06:38:13 PM |
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Hello. I've got a problem that I can repeat using different equipment
If the main card is not AMD and it can not be Mine, the Claymore It will not show the video card temperature on all the others. Even if they are 6 pieces.
I would like to offer the opportunity to add a point card numbers that are not involved in mining or cards that do not need to read the temperature. Ready to provide their own equipment for testing. Asrock Anniversary and other
This issue is on the version for claymore ethereuim or zec
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Red55555
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 06:50:54 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter. Ok, u get most of hashers onboard and u start manipulating price... at the same time u promise to pay all miners that higher price. Unless u have some big buffer of btc (that will dry out), how on earth will u do both things at the same time? So we get to the first question, who will u sell it to? Miners get a higher price when the biggest pools sell the mined zcash centralized in the normal marketplaces where they try to manipulate to current price. There are some same ideas like in the nicehash -system, where you get a share from your hashing power proportionately but you are not necessarily compensated with the coins you were currently mining. The pool will sell the "randomcoins" for you and compensate you with bitcoins. No news here. Though in this scenario we only mine zcash and you are compensated through fiat currencies, for example. That would somewhat reduce the effect of what coin dumping currently has on zcash´s price and maybe give a better share for miners.
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elzium
Member
Offline
Activity: 96
Merit: 10
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December 06, 2016, 07:16:32 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter. Ok, u get most of hashers onboard and u start manipulating price... at the same time u promise to pay all miners that higher price. Unless u have some big buffer of btc (that will dry out), how on earth will u do both things at the same time? So we get to the first question, who will u sell it to? Miners get a higher price when the biggest pools sell the mined zcash centralized in the normal marketplaces where they try to manipulate to current price. There are some same ideas like in the nicehash -system, where you get a share from your hashing power proportionately but you are not necessarily compensated with the coins you were currently mining. The pool will sell the "randomcoins" for you and compensate you with bitcoins. No news here. Though in this scenario we only mine zcash and you are compensated through fiat currencies, for example. That would somewhat reduce the effect of what coin dumping currently has on zcash´s price and maybe give a better share for miners. So u need to spend assets to drive price higher. Yea, that works but who will pay for that? Pool just gives that away? For that u dont need to control hashrate, u just buy as much zec as it takes to drive price to desired rate. And thats dead bagfull cause selling it will drive price back down. I'll take ur word that u are absolute noob
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4Me_Developer
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 07:23:55 PM |
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ghostfaceuk
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December 06, 2016, 07:29:35 PM |
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No asics for Zec, could be miner with a fee mining on that pool such a optiminer or Claymore. Could also be someone how has changed peoples config files perhaps or just someone with lots of rigs to point at a pool
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KrokoTill
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 07:30:05 PM |
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"socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down.
Exactly. To supporters of "controlling" - one simple question - would _you_ buy the stuff for the price it has now? If "no" then why do you think someone else should want? If there are people, who value this pointless crap, then I am happy to sell it to them as long it covers my production cost. If it does not, I produce something else that is more profitable. But I will never pile the stuff to warehouse unless I value it myself and expect to see growing prices.
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Red55555
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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December 06, 2016, 07:49:27 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter. Ok, u get most of hashers onboard and u start manipulating price... at the same time u promise to pay all miners that higher price. Unless u have some big buffer of btc (that will dry out), how on earth will u do both things at the same time? So we get to the first question, who will u sell it to? Miners get a higher price when the biggest pools sell the mined zcash centralized in the normal marketplaces where they try to manipulate to current price. There are some same ideas like in the nicehash -system, where you get a share from your hashing power proportionately but you are not necessarily compensated with the coins you were currently mining. The pool will sell the "randomcoins" for you and compensate you with bitcoins. No news here. Though in this scenario we only mine zcash and you are compensated through fiat currencies, for example. That would somewhat reduce the effect of what coin dumping currently has on zcash´s price and maybe give a better share for miners. So u need to spend assets to drive price higher. Yea, that works but who will pay for that? Pool just gives that away? For that u dont need to control hashrate, u just buy as much zec as it takes to drive price to desired rate. And thats dead bagfull cause selling it will drive price back down. I'll take ur word that u are absolute noob Did you even read what i wrote? There is no buffer, no capital needed, no spend assets. The income miners get is from the pools selling the zcash on the market and only from the market. "u just buy as much zec as it takes to drive price to desired rate." Please share the quote where i even remotely mentioned that the price is controlled through BUYING it ourselves from the market. Now you are just making up things. Maybe this was just a troll after all? When you control at least half of the total production and supply (at least 50% of total hashrate) you have something to say about the price. It does matter whether most of the zcash is being sold at 50 dollars or 80 dollars. I a noob considering the complexity and depths of the economics. Though it makes you wonder, just what that makes you. Seriously bro? you run out of arguments and just make some shit up i never said?
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Amph
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Activity: 3206
Merit: 1069
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December 06, 2016, 07:51:32 PM |
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that hash is only 100 rig, sp for example has 100 rig, it could be anyone, many have 100 rig nowadays
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elzium
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Merit: 10
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December 06, 2016, 08:00:06 PM |
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Yeah right, and who would those pools sell it to? At prices higher than of a free market. Say, they put the price at 1btc. What then?
U people miss the experience of living in soviet union. These kind of plans dont work.
Market manipulation or cartels have nothing to do with predetermined production in Soviet union mate. More likely this can be mocked as an attempt to make a "central bank" for zcash. To be honest, mildly controlling the price of a currency is what central banks do. If you meant "you people" by Finnish people, we are nowadays basically anti communism as a whole. If you actually read my last post, you would see that what i meant was to manipulate the zcash price so the coin dumping wouldn´t have such a detrimental effect on the prices. Therefore the prices could be better adjusted to the current demand (through centralized selling=pool collaboration). As i originally posted, there is a risk that if the price is too high, people wont buy it and if it was the 100 dollars each i originally hypothesized, we would still need to make the majority of the network to collaborate with this plan. To control the risks i threw out ideas of pool collaboration and an idea to adjust the price to the point people would actually buy it (read "leftover demand", which of whom may or may not buy zcash even if they can´t get it for 50 dollars each). This is also 100% theoretical speculation as you may have noticed. Though i´m not sure if you are trolling with that "socialist - card" To control the price u need one of two, absence of free market so only controlled partys that agree on some price can trade. Or control over supply so decreasing it the price will rise by itself. One way or another, u will decrease volume but problem is, zec supply is constant. What u gonna do about that? "socialist card" is about planned economics, u plan supply and u plan price and u never hit the target of demand. U either have overproduction or deficit. And with "controlled" price of ZEC u have over production that u cant sell unless the price will go down. I never stated that full control of the price can be achieved. It only can be manipulated to the point people still are willing to buy it. Who is allowed to trade or who is not allowed cannot be controlled by any measure these days. Can you share a quote where i stated that? I made a scenario where the price of the currency could be manipulated on the free market. You seriously haven´t heard of what European Unions central bank has been doing for this entire decade? They manipulate the price of the Euro as some may have noticed. As i also stated we would need majority of the network (hashrate) so more than half of the constant supply is still under our control. Planned economics in soviet union meant that the price of the ruble was not only manipulated but it was fully controlled buy the state no matter the supply or demand. In Europe the price of the Euro is manipulated through a central bank but even them cannot fully decide what it´s price should be . Most of the Europeans still call it a free market. This scenario was an image of the latter. Ok, u get most of hashers onboard and u start manipulating price... at the same time u promise to pay all miners that higher price. Unless u have some big buffer of btc (that will dry out), how on earth will u do both things at the same time? So we get to the first question, who will u sell it to? Miners get a higher price when the biggest pools sell the mined zcash centralized in the normal marketplaces where they try to manipulate to current price. There are some same ideas like in the nicehash -system, where you get a share from your hashing power proportionately but you are not necessarily compensated with the coins you were currently mining. The pool will sell the "randomcoins" for you and compensate you with bitcoins. No news here. Though in this scenario we only mine zcash and you are compensated through fiat currencies, for example. That would somewhat reduce the effect of what coin dumping currently has on zcash´s price and maybe give a better share for miners. So u need to spend assets to drive price higher. Yea, that works but who will pay for that? Pool just gives that away? For that u dont need to control hashrate, u just buy as much zec as it takes to drive price to desired rate. And thats dead bagfull cause selling it will drive price back down. I'll take ur word that u are absolute noob Did you even read what i wrote? There is no buffer, no capital needed, no spend assets. The income miners get is from the pools selling the zcash on the market and only from the market. "u just buy as much zec as it takes to drive price to desired rate." Please share the quote where i even remotely mentioned that the price is controlled through BUYING it ourselves from the market. Now you are just making up things. Maybe this was just a troll after all? When you control at least half of the total production and supply (at least 50% of total hashrate) you have something to say about the price. It does matter whether most of the zcash is being sold at 50 dollars or 80 dollars. I a noob considering the complexity and depths of the economics. Though it makes you wonder, just what that makes you. Seriously bro? you run out of arguments and just make some shit up i never said? Lets agree to disagree, i guess u are misreading and taking things too personally. On with breaking F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5.....
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