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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008011 times)
Airwhale
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January 20, 2014, 01:31:37 PM
 #28381


With respect to casing design, that only takes approx. 3 days, the inclusion of space for PSUs has been passed on and acknowledged, and is being considered. Such design does obviously affect shipping costs that are dictated by dimensional sizing and weight, but you will need to source PSUs your side. This is not an oversight on our part, but the regulations for importing products with power supplies varies significantly country to country to the extent by which entry of electronic goods that have not met the prior approval of specific countries. If you have been on this forum long enough you would be well aware of the complications and denial that some have experienced, as such we will not provide an internal PSU so as not to limit access to those customers. Keep it simple and ensure everyone has a fair chance of receiving their items. Power supplies are easily available internally anyway. It worked well for Jupiter so we're sticking to that.


 My understanding of the neptune was that it was going to draw 2500w or more,  and thus is unsuitable for 20 amp, 120v power lines.  I'm not sure where to get a power supply that is greater than 1600w,  and I've always been cautious of having two power supplies on one device,  in case one fails and the other does not.  (electronic devices don't generally like to be half powered... it fries them!)  How would sourcing your own power supply work with such a device?  

+1 for the suggestion to house the power supply internally.  I (and I am sure many others in the US)  plan on hosting this in a data center,  so having it something that is entirely rack mountable makes things so much easier.  
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January 20, 2014, 02:08:01 PM
 #28382


With respect to casing design, that only takes approx. 3 days, the inclusion of space for PSUs has been passed on and acknowledged, and is being considered. Such design does obviously affect shipping costs that are dictated by dimensional sizing and weight, but you will need to source PSUs your side. This is not an oversight on our part, but the regulations for importing products with power supplies varies significantly country to country to the extent by which entry of electronic goods that have not met the prior approval of specific countries. If you have been on this forum long enough you would be well aware of the complications and denial that some have experienced, as such we will not provide an internal PSU so as not to limit access to those customers. Keep it simple and ensure everyone has a fair chance of receiving their items. Power supplies are easily available internally anyway. It worked well for Jupiter so we're sticking to that.


 My understanding of the neptune was that it was going to draw 2500w or more,  and thus is unsuitable for 20 amp, 120v power lines.  I'm not sure where to get a power supply that is greater than 1600w,  and I've always been cautious of having two power supplies on one device,  in case one fails and the other does not.  (electronic devices don't generally like to be half powered... it fries them!)  How would sourcing your own power supply work with such a device?  

+1 for the suggestion to house the power supply internally.  I (and I am sure many others in the US)  plan on hosting this in a data center,  so having it something that is entirely rack mountable makes things so much easier.  


yes it would be nice to get if a 220v standard 20amp 2pole breaker line will work...(sigh ...i suppose I could get a gas clothes dryer and stove.....)...the smart thing to do would be to upgrade my 100amp panel to 200 amps...

anyway us USA types need to know if we have to get a 220v 30amp line.....because right now is the time you get a hold of and schedule an appointment with an Electrican (dead of winter) if you wait till spring they will all be locked up with commercial work unless you set such up early (my experience anyway)

but again in a "module format" like was done with the Jupiter....you could "split" and have 2 power supplies hashing each or 2 to 4 or whatever cores per side each...i think? that is being done with cointerra?

it probably would look like 2 units hashing on a pool this seperation...but what the heck if you could use TWO Power suppllies on TW0 dedicated to the Neptune only regular 220v line would be worth it...and most of us could do that ourselves on our current panels *usa*

not to mention if one circuit or module or whatever stops working (like on the jupiter) you can continue to hash till RMA arrives

my 2c worth

Searing




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WastedLTC
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January 20, 2014, 02:15:46 PM
 #28383

Good points.
Don't use Paypal: I sold 3 Jupiters on Ebay so far in 2 seperate transactions (2 before Christmas and one 3 days ago and all went smooth).
But I always opt for cash on delivery. The 1st guy was from the Czech Republic who drove all the way to London to pick up 2 of them, while bringing £18500 in cash.
The 2nd was a local indian guy Smiley

And btw Ebay take 10% up to £75, which is reasonable when you make a sale for thousands of pounds.

I sold a jupiter on ebay a few months back and had a great experience.   Winner paid me in cash at a bank and we did the transfer right there after bank validated the bills and made deposit.
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January 20, 2014, 02:41:45 PM
 #28384

Guys there is a marketplace forum where your can sell your stuff. People who want to buy know where it is. No need for advertising here.

Don't you know this thread is the AOL of bitcointalk?? 

They don't know there are any other places on this forum but this thread!!   Cheesy

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January 20, 2014, 03:15:49 PM
 #28385


 My understanding of the neptune was that it was going to draw 2500w or more,  and thus is unsuitable for 20 amp, 120v power lines.  I'm not sure where to get a power supply that is greater than 1600w,  and I've always been cautious of having two power supplies on one device,  in case one fails and the other does not.  (electronic devices don't generally like to be half powered... it fries them!)  How would sourcing your own power supply work with such a device?  

+1 for the suggestion to house the power supply internally.  I (and I am sure many others in the US)  plan on hosting this in a data center,  so having it something that is entirely rack mountable makes things so much easier.  


yes it would be nice to get if a 220v standard 20amp 2pole breaker line will work...(sigh ...i suppose I could get a gas clothes dryer and stove.....)...the smart thing to do would be to upgrade my 100amp panel to 200 amps...

anyway us USA types need to know if we have to get a 220v 30amp line.....because right now is the time you get a hold of and schedule an appointment with an Electrican (dead of winter) if you wait till spring they will all be locked up with commercial work unless you set such up early (my experience anyway)

but again in a "module format" like was done with the Jupiter....you could "split" and have 2 power supplies hashing each or 2 to 4 or whatever cores per side each...i think? that is being done with cointerra?

it probably would look like 2 units hashing on a pool this seperation...but what the heck if you could use TWO Power suppllies on TW0 dedicated to the Neptune only regular 220v line would be worth it...and most of us could do that ourselves on our current panels *usa*

not to mention if one circuit or module or whatever stops working (like on the jupiter) you can continue to hash till RMA arrives

my 2c worth

Searing

+1 on space in the case!

Searing I'm running 3 Jups on a 240V circuit here in the USA, I highly recommend making the move to 220/240V if you're going to keep them in a residential setting.. and don't skimp on wire gage! Smiley

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January 20, 2014, 03:26:02 PM
 #28386

so final yes or no
for the upgraded module?
will be for november only jupiter?

I'm curious about the upgrade module as well.  I understand the Nov Jupiters have the yellow tagged VRMs and take different programming than the Oct. Jupiters/Saturns/Mercurys.  In such a case if the upgrade modules are for the November Jupiters then if one has a Saturn one might buy 4 or 6 modules and pull the Oct cards to resell so all 4 or 6 are running the same programming.



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Airwhale
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January 20, 2014, 03:29:51 PM
 #28387


but again in a "module format" like was done with the Jupiter....you could "split" and have 2 power supplies hashing each or 2 to 4 or whatever cores per side each...i think? that is being done with cointerra?

it probably would look like 2 units hashing on a pool this seperation...but what the heck if you could use TWO Power suppllies on TW0 dedicated to the Neptune only regular 220v line would be worth it...and most of us could do that ourselves on our current panels *usa*

not to mention if one circuit or module or whatever stops working (like on the jupiter) you can continue to hash till RMA arrives


Yeah,  it would be nice if there were two separate control boards in that case.  It's interesting to note that Blackarrow has gone that route,  going to far as to making their high-end machine in two separate cases.  It's a good model for mining manufacturers who want to be friendly to the USA/Canada household miner,  I think.

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January 20, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
 #28388

The controller cards are FPGA cards with BBB mounted?  Power hungry 228MHs FPGA zTex cards are getting retired now from Bitcoin mining.  Perhaps a programming wiz could find a way to use an FPGA zTex card in conjunction with a BBB to run modules.



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January 20, 2014, 04:00:03 PM
 #28389

I'm interested in seeing how Knc will manage to cool a ~3000W Neptune beast.

Jupiter heatsinks are very large, and they are only able to cool ~300W each. Obviously, there is not enough room for 10 Jupiter type heatsinks in a Neptune unless the case is twice as large.
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January 20, 2014, 04:23:36 PM
 #28390

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week.



Any idea if these will be october modules or november only?
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January 20, 2014, 04:33:18 PM
 #28391

so final yes or no
for the upgraded module?
will be for november only jupiter?

I'm curious about the upgrade module as well.  I understand the Nov Jupiters have the yellow tagged VRMs and take different programming than the Oct. Jupiters/Saturns/Mercurys.  In such a case if the upgrade modules are for the November Jupiters then if one has a Saturn one might buy 4 or 6 modules and pull the Oct cards to resell so all 4 or 6 are running the same programming.


I am curious about this as well. Hey 'Orama, would you say its possible to replace the Oct modules with Nov modules and just reflash the E firmware?

Also, can you tell us at least which modules will be sold? Oct/Nov/Both?
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January 20, 2014, 04:37:39 PM
 #28392

so final yes or no
for the upgraded module?
will be for november only jupiter?

I'm curious about the upgrade module as well.  I understand the Nov Jupiters have the yellow tagged VRMs and take different programming than the Oct. Jupiters/Saturns/Mercurys.  In such a case if the upgrade modules are for the November Jupiters then if one has a Saturn one might buy 4 or 6 modules and pull the Oct cards to resell so all 4 or 6 are running the same programming.


I am curious about this as well. Hey 'Orama, would you say its possible to replace the Oct modules with Nov modules and just reflash the E firmware?

Also, can you tell us at least which modules will be sold? Oct/Nov/Both?

I can answer your 1st question: yes, it is possible as long as you don't mix them on the same controller board. Keep in mind that Nov type will need more power than Oct ones, for a Nov Jupiter a 1200W PSU was recommended if I remember right.
Also interested about what type of modules will be sold Smiley

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January 20, 2014, 04:51:32 PM
 #28393

Orama, any word on whether hosting will be provided?
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January 20, 2014, 04:54:18 PM
 #28394

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week.


So February is the more likely if at all?



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January 20, 2014, 05:39:46 PM
 #28395

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week. My previous comment regarding Jupiter sales was accurate at that point in time. Sam had mentioned frequently to people in Vegas prior to Christmas we were going to be opening for sale. Those in attendance there that spoke to him will vouch for this. I only just set foot back in Stockholm this week, I was hoping to have positive news on that front for you. There is however an immediate problem in the supply chain sourcing certain components, which due to the current competitive landscape would not be wise to dwell further upon, other than we are obviously looking at means to overcome this. It is however likely now to be upgrade modules, and not complete units. Understand that may be disappointing for some, but that's all I have to share currently and it's not something I've had prior knowledge of. Will let you know more as, and when. If you want to spend your cash elsewhere we're not stopping you, but I'm not going to sugar-coat the situation in the hope we can open for orders immediately, just giving you a realistic overview of the situation.

With respect to Neptune we are where we intended to be at this stage and are still contemplating aspects of the design. Understand that the approach is not the same as that of Jupiter. 28nm was extremely disruptive at the time, of which the effect can plainly be seen. Hashrate was given priority to power consumption, and safety and speed to market even more so, but going forward and acknowledging that power consumption becomes more a critical factor the Neptune has to be created as more a long term solution. We will not skimp or rush the design here. This does not mean I'm indirectly verbalising a delay, so don't go looking for hidden meanings, there aren't any to find, just rest assured I'm stressing we value the integrity of the design more which is why Q1/Q2 was given to ensure that margin is present so we commit the best foot going forward in what is uncharted waters within bleeding edge silicon. We're not rushing the design at the cost of it's ability to function, and function well. The sha-256 implementation is actually relatively simple, but there is still quite a bit we can optimise to remain competitive for you and us.

With respect to casing design, that only takes approx. 3 days, the inclusion of space for PSUs has been passed on and acknowledged, and is being considered. Such design does obviously affect shipping costs that are dictated by dimensional sizing and weight, but you will need to source PSUs your side. This is not an oversight on our part, but the regulations for importing products with power supplies varies significantly country to country to the extent by which entry of electronic goods that have not met the prior approval of specific countries. If you have been on this forum long enough you would be well aware of the complications and denial that some have experienced, as such we will not provide an internal PSU so as not to limit access to those customers. Keep it simple and ensure everyone has a fair chance of receiving their items. Power supplies are easily available internally anyway. It worked well for Jupiter so we're sticking to that.


Thanks for the honest update Bitcoinorama. Since it sounds like KNC is no longer focused on speed to market I will most likely be dumping my Neptune pre-order as I'm not in the business of financing their next gen miner at a BTC loss which this is starting to look like from my POV. I think it's pretty safe to say Q1 delivery is now completely out of the question and a May/June delivery is quite possible so I will probably be better off buying back my BTC directly unless the difficulty acceleration magically flat-lines. I really appreciate that you are upfront about their goals instead of sugar coating things and misleading us to expect a possible Q1 delivery, many kudos to KNC.

I think before I pull the plug I will redo all of my forecast calculations one more time and see what a day 1 Neptune pre-order is selling for ATM...
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January 20, 2014, 05:43:50 PM
 #28396

I am a newbie here, but it seems that restrictions have been lifted. I have 2 Neptunes on preorder. I was thinking to run them off the dryer 240V socket, but "family" is adamantly against it, hence I would be able to barely run just one.

Bottom line: is anybody interested in ONE public batch #1 Neptune preorder (154##)? Please PM me if interested, but be reasonable as I don't have to sell. I will only deal in BTC. As of now, batch#2 is gone as well (for the second and, probably, last time).
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January 20, 2014, 06:02:55 PM
 #28397

I too am frustrated by not right now having new KnC gear hashing.  Thing is I look at my Neptune pre-order and look at the present relative superiority of Jupiters over the competition and the Jupiter profitability track record, and I expect the Neptune will have a similar relationship to the competition when it fields.  

That's not to say all of us might not get screwed, KnC machine owners somewhat less than others.  Screwed if dark horse mining farms get super cheap gear of their own manufacture in an overwhelming way.

So, what would be the alternative?  Leave mining and buy btc for its appreciation?  We know the banks aren't going to quit scamming the general public with currency expansion.  We know peace isn't going to reign on into the far foreseeable future, Syria and the Sudan not withstanding, and that would mean money movement into Bitcoin.  Some questions are: a) how long do we have to wait for KnC gear, b) will all the KnC gear made available be sold to pre-existing customers or will the numbers of miners be such that it will be open to the general public.  Like those dark horse mining farms turning their btc into Neptune purchases, c) how bad will the network hashrate get and how soon?



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January 20, 2014, 06:18:38 PM
 #28398

Neptunes all gone now - again.

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January 20, 2014, 06:19:47 PM
 #28399

I too am frustrated by not right now having new KnC gear hashing.  Thing is I look at my Neptune pre-order and look at the present relative superiority of Jupiters over the competition and the Jupiter profitability track record, and I expect the Neptune will have a similar relationship to the competition when it fields.  

That's not to say all of us might not get screwed, KnC machine owners somewhat less than others.  Screwed if dark horse mining farms get super cheap gear of their own manufacture in an overwhelming way.

So, what would be the alternative?  Leave mining and buy btc for its appreciation?  We know the banks aren't going to quit scamming the general public with currency expansion.  We know peace isn't going to reign on into the far foreseeable future, Syria and the Sudan not withstanding, and that would mean money movement into Bitcoin.  Some questions are: a) how long do we have to wait for KnC gear, b) will all the KnC gear made available be sold to pre-existing customers or will the numbers of miners be such that it will be open to the general public.  Like those dark horse mining farms turning their btc into Neptune purchases, c) how bad will the network hashrate get and how soon?

Lots of speculation in here!
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January 20, 2014, 06:44:01 PM
 #28400

By my estimation, Knc has around two months to start delivering Neptunes before folks that pre-ordered start losing BTC.

Antminers can be purchased right now, and ship immediately, for around $9 per GH. Neptunes sold for between $3 and $4 per GH. Once the difficulty triples, which will occur in around 2 months, Knc Neptune preorder pricing should be close to the price of hardware that ships immediately.

Power efficiency will make the Neptune more valuable than less efficient hardware, but not significantly more valuable.

I'm also a bit discouraged by what what seems to be a Knc shift from minimizing time to market to aiming for a more "perfect" design.

Bitcoinorama also said that Knc was meeting it's internal schedule, but Knc hasn't really announced what their internal schedule is beyond providing a 6 month Q1/Q2 delivery window, which is an eternity in Bitcoinland!

The clock is ticking...
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