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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007527 times)
xstr8guy
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February 04, 2014, 09:36:16 PM
 #29361

...plus, other ASIC producers are already building their "mining" farms. This is certain and there is no deterrence to stop them to do it. There is, indeed, a very attractive incentive to rise the margin of profits and shift all the risks to the customers. When KnC delivers their customers will have to compete with a difficulty generated by "mining" farms from all ASIC producers.

There was a school of thought at one point that there would be a rise of these massive farms and a massive decrease in the involvement of small-time personal miners.  Eventually however, it is believed that these farms will essentially kill each other off.  As margins become razor thin the only ones still able to mine at a profit will be the small time miners who have significantly less overhead.

 

This! ^


Caution!  Extreme FUD below.


I have been an optimistic/glass half full miner from day one.  Not any longer.  In fact, the glass is 3/4 empty.  All ASIC manufacturers are now "Black Hats" with maybe the exception of BitMain.

- I'm now quite aware that most of the "delays" are not actual delays but pre-mining time for the "guys with all of the money" to gorge themselves on profits the should have been our's.

- It's obvious to me now that the presale of ASIC miners to the public was never anything more than a way for these shysters to fund their own massive mining farms.  I actually knew this before but it's just so freaking obvious now that "presales" were never meant to go beyond the first generation of miners.

- And I suspect that all other 2nd generation miners that were to be released to the public (Neptune, Monarch, etc) will never actually reach consumers hands.  They will all be in datacenters whether we want them there or not.  And most of us will end-up abandoning them because of their unprofitablity after hosting costs are deducted.  And just plain forget about 3rd generation ASICs.  They will never reach consumer's hands.


I sincerely hope that all of the MASSIVE "cloud" mining operations will soon be eating each other to survive.  With all of the billions of dollars of ASICs about to hit the network, it will soon be unprofitable to mine (even with free electricity) because the overhead just to host the miners will be astronomical.

My only hope now is the collapse of mining doesn't cause the collapse of bitcoin.
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February 04, 2014, 09:49:47 PM
 #29362

It makes more sense that the collapse of mining will be the beginning of Bitcoin. Once people can no longer print their own money it starts to become legit.

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February 04, 2014, 09:54:33 PM
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My only hope now is the collapse of mining doesn't cause the collapse of bitcoin.

bitcoin worked fine ~$100 last summer..  I wouldn't mind it going back down to screw these apes
there will be a lot more selling pressure of bitcoin than buying and the fees will just increase.


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xstr8guy
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February 04, 2014, 10:02:38 PM
 #29364

Bitcoinorama has been online at least 4 times since the news broke and is online right now. You can expect answers to your questions straight away!

Don't expect that, frankly he is a great guy but the people he works for are NOT sharing EVERYTHING with him so we should collectively give him a break and not kill the messenger (or lack thereof)

He is a "Director" of some sort, no?  The purpose of having Directors in a company is that they are involved in all important discussions if it concerns their job title.  And wasn't that "Communications"?  So isn't safe to assume that, by his job title, he should be communicating with us about this very important topic?  Wink
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February 04, 2014, 10:09:47 PM
 #29365

While it's nice to finally get an official update it appears we won't be getting any concrete details any time soon and have to read between the lines. These are the main points I took from their update:

1) Neptunes will not ship before May as their 20nm chip design has not been "taped out" at this point. They are also not very confident that they will ship before July hence "Plan B". This means Neptunes will not have a positive BTC ROI with the current projected increase in network hashrate (which "Plan B" will contribute too).

2) They have chosen not to share the success of their 28nm chip with the early investustomers that took huge risks to make that success possible and instead will be directly competing against them by devaluing their Jupiter/Neptune miners with a private 28nm mining farm which will raise network difficulty prior to Neptune delivery.


I've really tried to hold onto the belief than KNC is 100% legit but I'm really starting to doubt that now. I seems very likely that the "Q1" part of the ship date advertised in the Neptune batch #1 pre-order was never a possibility and was intentionally misleading (worked on me). I have no idea why the "we're probably going to sell Jupiters from stock soon, hold onto some BTC" turned into "nevermind we're keeping them for ourselves" but greed is really the best guess.

Their "Plan B" might sound great on the surface but it is actually quite terrible for their Neptune customers. First, a private 28nm mining farm will directly lower the ROI of Neptune pre-orders before they even ship. Second if you really consider the fine print, Neptunes won't technically be late until July which will be WAY past the point of positive BTC ROI any way you look at it. They would be under no obligation to offer "cloud hashing" as compensation before July so Plan B would only lower the amount of BTC lost at that point. It seems 100% clear now that it would be best to refund and purchase BTC directly as I can not see any chance at all that a Neptune will have positive BTC ROI even with Plan B. The only hope would be that the network hashrate levels off. Maybe I will hold onto my Neptune pre-order a bit longer to see what happens but it shows no sign of slowing down any time soon.

For me this marks the end of mining as KNC was my last hope for providing miners with a positive BTC ROI but it appears they too have succumb to the greed just like all the others who have found themselves in this position. I really was starting to buy into the idea that KNC was going to bring us early customers along for the ride but it's now obvious they've taken the ball and gone home without us...
xstr8guy
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February 04, 2014, 10:14:00 PM
 #29366



My only hope now is the collapse of mining doesn't cause the collapse of bitcoin.

bitcoin worked fine ~$100 last summer..  I wouldn't mind it going back down to screw these apes
there will be a lot more selling pressure of bitcoin than buying and the fees will just increase.


You've given me something to live for!  Smiley



It makes more sense that the collapse of mining will be the beginning of Bitcoin. Once people can no longer print their own money it starts to become legit.

I like your thinking.  That narrative makes for an interesting future history for Bitcoin.

But don't we need continued, uninterrupted hashing of the Blockchain to keep it viable?  There is a possible lesson to learn here.  Don't throw out your old mining gear when it becomes obsolete.  We may need to plug them back in someday to rescue Bitcoin from collapse.
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February 04, 2014, 10:16:24 PM
 #29367

While it's nice to finally get an official update it appears we won't be getting any concrete details any time soon and have to read between the lines. These are the main points I took from their update:

1) Neptunes will not ship before May as their 20nm chip design has not been "taped out" at this point. They are also not very confident that they will ship before July hence "Plan B". This means Neptunes will not have a positive BTC ROI with the current projected increase in network hashrate (which "Plan B" will contribute too).

2) They have chosen not to share the success of their 28nm chip with the early investustomers that took huge risks to make that success possible and instead will be directly competing against them by devaluing their Jupiter/Neptune miners with a private 28nm mining farm which will raise network difficulty prior to Neptune delivery.


I've really tried to hold onto the belief than KNC is 100% legit but I'm really starting to doubt that now. I seems very likely that the "Q1" part of the ship date advertised in the Neptune batch #1 pre-order was never a possibility and was intentionally misleading (worked on me). I have no idea why the "we're probably going to sell Jupiters from stock soon, hold onto some BTC" turned into "nevermind we're keeping them for ourselves" but greed is really the best guess.

Their "Plan B" might sound great on the surface but it is actually quite terrible for their Neptune customers. First, a private 28nm mining farm will directly lower the ROI of Neptune pre-orders before they even ship. Second if you really consider the fine print, Neptunes won't technically be late until July which will be WAY past the point of positive BTC ROI any way you look at it. They would be under no obligation to offer "cloud hashing" as compensation before July so Plan B would only lower the amount of BTC lost at that point. It seems 100% clear now that it would be best to refund and purchase BTC directly as I can not see any chance at all that a Neptune will have positive BTC ROI even with Plan B. The only hope would be that the network hashrate levels off. Maybe I will hold onto my Neptune pre-order a bit longer to see what happens but it shows no sign of slowing down any time soon.

For me this marks the end of mining as KNC was my last hope for providing miners with a positive BTC ROI but it appears they too have succumb to the greed just like all the others who have found themselves in this position. I really was starting to buy into the idea that KNC was going to bring us early customers along for the ride but it's now obvious they've taken the ball and gone home without us...
I'm pretty sure the statement is to use the 28nm farm to fufill the Neptune 3th orders....


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The Avenger
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February 04, 2014, 10:17:40 PM
 #29368

I've really tried to hold onto the belief than KNC is 100% legit but I'm really starting to doubt that now. I seems very likely that the "Q1" part of the ship date advertised in the Neptune batch #1 pre-order was never a possibility and was intentionally misleading (worked on me). I have no idea why the "we're probably going to sell Jupiters from stock soon, hold onto some BTC" turned into "nevermind we're keeping them for ourselves" but greed is really the best guess.
As we are talking about greed

Considering how greedy knc are, you'd expect them to sell another batch or three of Jupiters. I guess they are stuck in the position between wanting to be greedy and cash in on functioning jupiter design. Or getting greedy for $13k orders for something they can sit on the money for another 7 months.

I've got to take my hat off to them - they seem to have managed both!

"I am not The Avenger"
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xstr8guy
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February 04, 2014, 10:20:18 PM
 #29369

<snip>

For me this marks the end of mining as KNC was my last hope for providing miners with a positive BTC ROI but it appears they too have succumb to the greed just like all the others who have found themselves in this position. I really was starting to buy into the idea that KNC was going to bring us early customers along for the ride but it's now obvious they've taken the ball and gone home without us...

I'm not done mining quite yet.  I'll keep all of my existing preorders, really just because I want to geek out on them.  But I'm done buying any new mining gear, preorder or in-hand.  I will continue to let my current gear run until they become unprofitable and then unplug them.  And then I'm done.
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February 04, 2014, 10:22:36 PM
 #29370

Scryptmining is still lucrative! Grin

I've made more with that, trading it up to BTC< than bitcoin machines alone.

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February 04, 2014, 10:26:00 PM
 #29371

Scryptmining is still lucrative! Grin

I've made more with that, trading it up to BTC< than bitcoin machines alone.

Is this where all the money laundering went??   if so.. yeah will be profitable!   Cool

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February 04, 2014, 10:26:35 PM
 #29372

A simple read on plan B: Knc will give people with neptune orders 3Th of mining power that would be hosted in Sweden (probably/hopefully sometime in Q2 and NOT on July 1!. Once Neptune (20nm) is produced in Q3-Q4, they will give you an option to replace your 28nm chips with 20nm hashing chips while maintaining your hash rate (or slightly increasing it) in lieu of sending you the actual machine.
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February 04, 2014, 10:27:47 PM
 #29373

I'm pretty sure the statement is to use the 28nm farm to fufill the Neptune 3th orders....

Without any concrete details that could mean a lot of things.

1) When exactly do they feel they are obligated to compensate Neptune customers?
We should assume July (Q3) at this point.

2) When will the mining farm be operational?
We should assume if it's up and running BEFORE they are obligated to compensate Neptune customers that they will be mining for themselves.

If they do fullfill Neptune orders with the mining farm, it will still be up and running after the Neptunes finally ship so no matter how you look at it, the farm will devalue Neptunes.

I'm not done mining quite yet.  I'll keep all of my existing preorders, really just because I want to geek out on them.  But I'm done buying any new mining gear, preorder or in-hand.  I will continue to let my current gear run until they become unprofitable and then unplug them.  And then I'm done.

I love to geek out on mining hardware too but not at the expense of my precious BTC.
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February 04, 2014, 10:28:25 PM
 #29374

I'm not done mining quite yet.  I'll keep all of my existing preorders, really just because I want to geek out on them.  But I'm done buying any new mining gear, preorder or in-hand.  I will continue to let my current gear run until they become unprofitable and then unplug them.  And then I'm done.

Ding!  +1
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February 04, 2014, 10:30:16 PM
 #29375

A simple read on plan B: Knc will give people with neptune orders 3Th of mining power that would be hosted in Sweden (probably/hopefully sometime in Q2 and NOT on July 1!. Once Neptune (20nm) is produced in Q3-Q4, they will give you an option to replace your 28nm chips with 20nm hashing chips while maintaining your hash rate (or slightly increasing it) in lieu of sending you the actual machine.

How about they give Neptune preorders 3Th of hosted mining power right fuckin' now?
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February 04, 2014, 10:34:30 PM
 #29376

Scryptmining is still lucrative! Grin

I've made more with that, trading it up to BTC< than bitcoin machines alone.

Is this where all the money laundering went??   if so.. yeah will be profitable!   Cool

Probably, who knows. All I know is I've made 25+ BTC with about 8grand in equipment, and I'm about to get more free equipment. Combined with my BTC mining, it's been a good year, and I think a lot of batch 1/2 KNC customers can say the same.

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February 04, 2014, 10:40:07 PM
 #29377

Scryptmining is still lucrative! Grin

I've made more with that, trading it up to BTC< than bitcoin machines alone.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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February 04, 2014, 10:45:14 PM
 #29378

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shhhh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  Cheesy
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February 04, 2014, 10:46:58 PM
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I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  Cheesy

Why will no one see a working Neptune? I will be having mine delivered, regardless of the data centre.

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February 04, 2014, 10:48:35 PM
 #29380

I'm in full conspiracy mode now, lol.  I haven't seen anyone mention this very likely possibility yet...

20nm will never be developed by KNC.

Why?  Because if KNC never has to deliver a working Neptune to your door (c'mon aren't we all thinking we'll never see a real Neptune in person, right?)  Then what incentive do they have to build the new product when the 28nm Jupiters will do the hosted mining job perfectly fine with ultra cheap electricity.

We might see photos of datacenters filled with "our" Neptunes hashing away.  Shh, they'll just be Super-Jupiters in newly designed boxes.   But we will never have direct control of our individual boxes, just some vague, generic hashrate that we may have minimal control over.  So we'll never no for sure what KNC is hashing with.



Bookmark this post.  I want full credit when the conspiracy is exposed.  Cheesy

Why will no one see a working Neptune? I will be having mine delivered, regardless of the data centre.

I can almost guarantee that we will ultimately never be given the option of delivery for whatever bullshit reason they conjure up.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced it will come true.  Someone please convince me that I'm crazy and I'll book an appointment for a shrink right now!
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