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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008680 times)
wasubii
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January 27, 2014, 01:41:01 AM
 #28861



That's it. That was on 17th, almost 10 days ago.

People have been asking for refunds, knc don't even seem to care to calm people's fears.

What is there to discuss exactly? Nothing.

Upgrade modules? Before they too become pointless?
I can't see KNC selling anything that will be worth buying now..not if you wish to break even, not even upgrades ..too late.

They are already pointless.  And arguing about the Neptune versus those 5TH machines is equally pointless.  I personally wish the Neptune was dropped and they switched gears to focus on Scrypt instead.  Bitcoin mining is really not exciting anymore.  I feel like we're all being used to help fill the data centers of the rich.

Not working on a Scrypt device is a missed opportunity at being the first to launch with a drastic power reduction.

+1 on the missed opportunity with a scrypt miner. If KnC had announced one i would have gone all in with them. As it stands i have requested a refund for my neptune order.

It does't look likely that I will be a KnC customer again

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January 27, 2014, 03:35:25 AM
 #28862



That's it. That was on 17th, almost 10 days ago.

People have been asking for refunds, knc don't even seem to care to calm people's fears.

What is there to discuss exactly? Nothing.

Upgrade modules? Before they too become pointless?
I can't see KNC selling anything that will be worth buying now..not if you wish to break even, not even upgrades ..too late.

They are already pointless.  And arguing about the Neptune versus those 5TH machines is equally pointless.  I personally wish the Neptune was dropped and they switched gears to focus on Scrypt instead.  Bitcoin mining is really not exciting anymore.  I feel like we're all being used to help fill the data centers of the rich.

Not working on a Scrypt device is a missed opportunity at being the first to launch with a drastic power reduction.

+1 on the missed opportunity with a scrypt miner. If KnC had announced one i would have gone all in with them. As it stands i have requested a refund for my neptune order.

It does't look likely that I will be a KnC customer again


I feel the same as Paladin69 and wasubii.


Man, I wish I could change my avatar!
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January 27, 2014, 06:09:37 AM
 #28863

3th of Antminers = 5kw (by taking 300watts per Antminer) = 31.654BTC (without shipping) = 25.8k $
3th of Neptunes = 2.5kw = 14.6BTC = 12k $

Two times more $$$ and watts for the same hash-power.

There is a really big difference here. You really can't even get a Neptune for at least another several months so why even compare right now?
The winner in the mining game is the one who as the most power efficient machine (or the one with free electricity).
I know Neptune's will be hashing while Antminer's will be turned off because they use to much electricity.

Free electricity is a game changer for some. I can throw 20 Antminers at work and no one would blink an eye. I have access to over 10 large server rooms (head ends) that distribute cable television to very populated areas. All those devices are power hungry and the least efficient hardware I have ever seen. Air condition has to be on 24/365 even when it's 10 degrees out.

Those with free electric are lucky.

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January 27, 2014, 06:15:18 AM
 #28864

the last batch of neptunes was no refunds?! holy, didnt know that.

KNC used to be very customer friendly, but not anymore. Now you get:
No refunds
No PayPal/Credit cards accepted
No plausible explanations on decisions they make, but just quoting the word "procedures"

I remember back in August when Sam Cole was willing to talk with his customers for hours over the phone, but now he is extremely busy.

I am also very close at refunding my Neptunes...


That's called, "we have all your money now and can do what we want" attitude. Money changes everything, mostly people for the worse.

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January 27, 2014, 06:40:17 AM
 #28865

I think a Neptune at 3000 GH will ROI in BTC as long as it starts hashing at around a 5 billion difficulty.

We'll likely hit a difficulty of 5 billion sometime in late March / early April.
  
I think more like 15 to 20 billion. It looks to me like about a dozen companies are about to deliver before april.
            BUT
All those noob miners and new btc users will also be creating "Dead Bitcoin days" driving the price up with a BTC shortage, as the usage increases, and the speculation increases..., which will save us in fiat returns.
Eventually, the transaction fees per block will also become a more significant value as the block sizes increase etc.... untill finally... After the last Bitcoin is issued, that's all that miners will have or need.... transaction fees.
Many good things to come in btc very soon.... Wells Fargo, Google, E-Bay, TigerDirect, PayPal, Borse, Forex, "Bitcoin ATM's", Campaign Donations, IRA's, Military and humanitarian aid, new exchanges popping up everywhere, and best of all, The Chairman of the Federal Reserve himself endorsed Bitcoin.  Need I say more?
I see a future, where there is no "Checkout" in stores at all. The device on the product has either been paid for, or not.. by scanning the QRcode with your android Dick-Tracey watch.... Soon.
Everyone will have a BTC wallet on their phone.
No more digging for change on the bus, or toll roads, or parking meters, paid toilets, Phone booths, vending machines, McDonald's, and all those other annoying places you seem to have to dig for change!
No more bank or store robberies!
No more pickpockets.
Disability "checks" will be deposited on the 1st every month in btc.
Real-Estate transactions will clear escrow in minutes.
There will be no need for "ATM"s or banks for most.
"Checking accounts" will disappear, and those using old fiat will be under suspicion.
Remember that time your buddy went to Vegas, had a blast, brought a hooker to the room, fell asleep, and when he woke up, his wallet and a kidney were missing? That's not likely to happen any more... except for the kidney...hahaha..  except, this time, they track down the hooker, and your kidney, because her wallet recorded a block transmitted from your phone, which was traced via GPS.
Someday it will be embedded directly in your I.D. ...Remember NWO?   ahemmm..., right along with a portion of the block-chain, and be solar or everlasting battery powered with built in retina scanners. Personalized advertisements will play on your phone or ID based on your past purchases and places you visit online as you walk around stores offering coupons and discounts.
This is just the beginning of the world's wealth re-distribution.
The blockchain will literally be transmitted pocket-to pocket(already happening), and some will find they've become sterile from being a wireless hotspot all the time....  lol
Just a year ago, a cashless society was a pipe-dream....   This is gonna be a wild ride!..... and the name KnCminer will live to the end of time.
Those with the most efficient miners will enjoy a residual income forever, which is probably why KNC is going hard at efficiency. Considering the rate of adaptation, and the rate at which coins are produced, leads me to one inevitable conclusion... HUGE price rises, ongoing, in waves, for years to come... Keep those coin folks. Facts be known, I could buy two brand new 2014 Subaru Foresters with the BTC I made from KNCMiner products, or a fixer-upper home... but I know better than to cut myself short by cashing them in.... all, and more than my original fiat has been removed from the pot too. It's pure profit from here on out....
May we all see our dreams come true...  Good night all.



Greedy bastard. Buy your Subaru's , live life and have fun. You gonna sit on a hoard of bitcoin then become old and can't or unable to do anything anyway with it?

Watch the TV series called "Almost Human". They use and refer to bitcoin several times in that show but it is all in the light of underground and illegal activities. Still seen as a negative thing. And god the last people we need involved in bitcoin is anyone to do with the American financial institution. They'll either rob us all blind or just fuck everything up they put their hands on. I happen to believe most politicians or anyone that works for the government is completely corrupt. That's why there is such inequality in America now. When you beat down a dog often and long it will over time eventually come back and bite. This hasn't happened yet and probably won't while I'm alive but I would love to see it.

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January 27, 2014, 06:58:34 AM
 #28866

I think a Neptune at 3000 GH will ROI in BTC as long as it starts hashing at around a 5 billion difficulty.

We'll likely hit a difficulty of 5 billion sometime in late March / early April.
  
I think more like 15 to 20 billion. It looks to me like about a dozen companies are about to deliver before april.
            BUT
All those noob miners and new btc users will also be creating "Dead Bitcoin days" driving the price up with a BTC shortage, as the usage increases, and the speculation increases..., which will save us in fiat returns.
Eventually, the transaction fees per block will also become a more significant value as the block sizes increase etc.... untill finally... After the last Bitcoin is issued, that's all that miners will have or need.... transaction fees.
Many good things to come in btc very soon.... Wells Fargo, Google, E-Bay, TigerDirect, PayPal, Borse, Forex, "Bitcoin ATM's", Campaign Donations, IRA's, Military and humanitarian aid, new exchanges popping up everywhere, and best of all, The Chairman of the Federal Reserve himself endorsed Bitcoin.  Need I say more?
I see a future, where there is no "Checkout" in stores at all. The device on the product has either been paid for, or not.. by scanning the QRcode with your android Dick-Tracey watch.... Soon.
Everyone will have a BTC wallet on their phone.
No more digging for change on the bus, or toll roads, or parking meters, paid toilets, Phone booths, vending machines, McDonald's, and all those other annoying places you seem to have to dig for change!
No more bank or store robberies!
No more pickpockets.
Disability "checks" will be deposited on the 1st every month in btc.
Real-Estate transactions will clear escrow in minutes.
There will be no need for "ATM"s or banks for most.
"Checking accounts" will disappear, and those using old fiat will be under suspicion.
Remember that time your buddy went to Vegas, had a blast, brought a hooker to the room, fell asleep, and when he woke up, his wallet and a kidney were missing? That's not likely to happen any more... except for the kidney...hahaha..  except, this time, they track down the hooker, and your kidney, because her wallet recorded a block transmitted from your phone, which was traced via GPS.
Someday it will be embedded directly in your I.D. ...Remember NWO?   ahemmm..., right along with a portion of the block-chain, and be solar or everlasting battery powered with built in retina scanners. Personalized advertisements will play on your phone or ID based on your past purchases and places you visit online as you walk around stores offering coupons and discounts.
This is just the beginning of the world's wealth re-distribution.
The blockchain will literally be transmitted pocket-to pocket(already happening), and some will find they've become sterile from being a wireless hotspot all the time....  lol
Just a year ago, a cashless society was a pipe-dream....   This is gonna be a wild ride!..... and the name KnCminer will live to the end of time.
Those with the most efficient miners will enjoy a residual income forever, which is probably why KNC is going hard at efficiency. Considering the rate of adaptation, and the rate at which coins are produced, leads me to one inevitable conclusion... HUGE price rises, ongoing, in waves, for years to come... Keep those coin folks. Facts be known, I could buy two brand new 2014 Subaru Foresters with the BTC I made from KNCMiner products, or a fixer-upper home... but I know better than to cut myself short by cashing them in.... all, and more than my original fiat has been removed from the pot too. It's pure profit from here on out....
May we all see our dreams come true...  Good night all.



Greedy bastard. Buy your Subaru's , live life and have fun. You gonna sit on a hoard of bitcoin then become old and can't or unable to do anything anyway with it?

Watch the TV series called "Almost Human". They use and refer to bitcoin several times in that show but it is all in the light of underground and illegal activities. Still seen as a negative thing. And god the last people we need involved in bitcoin is anyone to do with the American financial institution. They'll either rob us all blind or just fuck everything up they put their hands on. I happen to believe most politicians or anyone that works for the government is completely corrupt. That's why there is such inequality in America now. When you beat down a dog often and long it will over time eventually come back and bite. This hasn't happened yet and probably won't while I'm alive but I would love to see it.

Oh it has happened, just not recently. Russians , French, even the Americans bit back big time and got rid of their oppressors. Back then the only option was armed revolution, today we have other more civilized democratic methods thanks to the internet...which is why some governments control it so hard, and others spy on us in such a huge way using it. It scares the piss out of them because of the power it puts into our hands,

Assuming that it takes a few years fo bitcoin to start to become important in the mainstream, that's when the banks and govts will come down hard to try and stop it. Right now it's a slight worry to them, a gimmick. Given the changes it could bring if allowed, and the damage it could do to the old institutions they won't sit and watch it wipe their profits out.
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January 27, 2014, 08:27:27 AM
 #28867

Talking about scam THIS guy managed to trick a lot of people into using his reseller link and he is the 3rd top KNC reseller: http://reseller.kncminer.com/orders

More info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348743.msg4755253#msg4755253

Fortunate for him KNC changed their policy to only allow change of the reseller info on an order if both the buyer and seller requested it.
Hopefully enough people would complain and he will lose his reseller status and all his awards.

That is called deception.

Any reseller issues blame KNC. They are the ones that are allowing resellers.

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January 27, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
 #28868

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week.

......

With respect to Neptune we are where we intended to be at this stage and are still contemplating aspects of the design. Understand that the approach is not the same as that of Jupiter. 28nm was extremely disruptive at the time, of which the effect can plainly be seen. Hashrate was given priority to power consumption,

.....

We will not skimp or rush the design here.


  • "Never change a running system" - Having said this, it the inability to supply another batch / Upgrade modules is confusing. Maybe someone tried to "improve" and failed.
  • Referencing the previous point, it looks like KNC has a Know-How advantage in their 28nm design. At this point abandoning this and starting "all over???" with a complete new design in 20nm makes me the techie in me cheer, and the economist in me wonder. KNC has proven to be able to do it. But if the tech-architects take majority over the tech-economists at KNC this means risc for everyone more interested in ROI than design.
Earth started space travel without even having the far superior design of a Warp drive. KNC, please don't go for the Warp drive design - think economist too. I believe in you being the most serious company out there. Don't prove me wrong.
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January 27, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
 #28869


because what he says is bullshit..  if he lost 50btc why the hell would he be hanging out here??  nah he thinks his name is still worth cooking up another more trickier scam

who the hell throws 50btc to some scam site unless he owns that wallet too and is trying to show he was a big supporter to get any fool to follow...  and now the victim donations..  what a crock this thread is


You'd think this thread was about Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

but it's actually about electrical basics,
Scam identification
and basically anything people feel like talking about.

This thread is so derailed it should be shot and put out of it's misery.

Pages and pages and pages of worthless crap that belongs elsewhere.



People are bored and need something to talk about until we get news from Knc.

Knc, please release another news update. Pretty please? Bitcoinorama, are you there? Did any Knc news come out of the Miami Bitcoin conference?  Smiley
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January 27, 2014, 03:56:32 PM
 #28870

Whether you wager .01btc or 50btc, it's still a wager, not a guaranteed payout. If you lose, you lose. Period.

With that being said, I've been tracking satoshidice for awhile, and what I can say is I find some of their stats to be 'curious', for lack of wanting to use a more controversial word. They're also not responding to inquiries related to certain betting addresses 'suddenly going offline' and then eventually coming back online, with the bet history missing, and the betters 'losing'. Happening more so with the higher-payout addresses than any others. They also reduced their payouts on the high-roller bets.

I stopped playing satoshidice once I noticed this pattern of downtime/losses. My gut tells me something is going on.

Back on topic, would be great if KNC had offered to do something like sell modules at the least. Competition has been shipping for 45 days now, and private BTC pools are growing from it. I had held BTC specifically for KNC order, but I can't hold any longer, and have used it elsewhere.

Cointerra is 3 days into their first couple batches running on their production lines, with the miners being boxed up and ready for shipment. They're only awaiting FCC/CE final approval, which should arrive this week. They're within 15% of their target hashgoal and power usage, and have said with some firmware updates they expect to reach original batch 1 target, and will be helping their batch 1 customers out.

KNC has fully dropped the ball on protecting their first 2 batch customers via their NPS. I guess there's a little BFL-ball-dropping in every startup company these days.

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January 27, 2014, 04:08:00 PM
 #28871

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.


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January 27, 2014, 04:10:08 PM
 #28872


Cointerra is 3 days into their first couple batches running on their production lines, with the miners being boxed up and ready for shipment. They're only awaiting FCC/CE final approval, which should arrive this week. They're within 15% of their target hashgoal and power usage, and have said with some firmware updates they expect to reach original batch 1 target, and will be helping their batch 1 customers out.


total bullshit.. no wonder you got scammed on satoshi dice

they said they have to do a board redesign to try for 2Th.. any firmware changes is just tinkering
they are much farther away than 15%.. and where has one run stable for even an hour?
all boxed up before UL testing? sure


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January 27, 2014, 04:10:42 PM
 #28873

Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now? [...]
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

There is no risk for KNC. They are taking payments in USD, and issuing refunds for the same amount of USD.
Why should they care what happens to the BTC value in between?

BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
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January 27, 2014, 04:11:36 PM
 #28874

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

oh I thought you were going to bring up the part where he scammed them out of free boards in the beginning

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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January 27, 2014, 04:12:12 PM
 #28875

Kind of off topic (but not really):
Didn't phoenix kind of scam KNC too?   Didn't he do the reverse of what most people complain about ASICs companies doing to them?   He paid 9BTC (approx) for some miners and then bitcoin fell and he said "wait I can get more bitcoin back than I paid them".
Then he got a refund for more btc than he originally paid.   Isn't that the opposite of what everyone in the HF thread is complaining about?
Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

knc runs bitpay. they don´t care about btc price change.

some people used ordering neptunes as a kind of hedge against falling btc price. so what ?
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January 27, 2014, 04:15:41 PM
 #28876

Isn't that the risk that KNC is taking right now?  Too many people that paid 9 BTC for a machine that will produce a certain amount of BTC this year, and then at $800 BTC, their refund request is worth 12.5 BTC and if BTC goes to $500 it would be 20 BTC (which is likely more than the machine will ever mine).
Refunds seem very risky and dangerous for the manufacturer as the consumer has a LOT of optionality.

Batch #2 Neptune has no refunds. If someone refunds batch#1 or batch 0 (previous cust), they will probably go to one of the following: KnC private hashing operation, Cole's brother, batch#3 (Kurt was hinting that it will happen).
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January 27, 2014, 04:17:03 PM
 #28877

There is no risk for KNC. They are taking payments in USD, and issuing refunds for the same amount of USD.
Why should they care what happens to the BTC value in between?
There is no exchange risk for KNC because BitPay is in the middle and KNC only sees $10,000 in and $10,000 out.   KNC's risk is more in the "run on the bank" scenario where KNC has ordered and spent the money to produce the products and then BTC moves in the wrong direction and every customer acts in their own interest and refunds (because they can buy more coin with $10K than the machine will mine).
I am just saying, isn't that what Phoenix did?   He said he was only refunding because he needed the money but now he is saying that he just got scammed out of 50BTC (so did he "need" the money or did he just use KNC as a trading account?)


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January 27, 2014, 04:22:50 PM
 #28878

Hedging bitcoin with the KnC machine is what probably happened, true. I am not convinced that timing was right.
Besides, Neptune 1st batch was sold for $19,100 on Ebay yesterday. I expect ebay premium to increase as we get closer to production.
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January 27, 2014, 04:28:22 PM
 #28879

Hedging bitcoin with the KnC machine is what probably happened, true. I am not convinced that timing was right.
Besides, Neptune 1st batch was sold for $19,100 on Ebay yesterday. I expect ebay premium to increase as we get closer to production.
There is quite a large difference on a trade being "sold" vs. "settled"


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January 27, 2014, 04:37:54 PM
 #28880

total bullshit.. no wonder you got scammed on satoshi dice

for what it's worth, i've won more than i've lost on satoshi dice. I wasn't the idiot who lost 50BTC in one day on satoshi. I also don't lose in casinos. I'm also not popular at them because of that reason. But damn if the drinks and food aren't worth it.

they said they have to do a board redesign to try for 2Th.. any firmware changes is just tinkering

Board redesign and firmware, and they said they would take care of their customers. It still doesn't matter considering they're days away from shipping a more powerful chip than KNC.

they are much farther away than 15%.. and where has one run stable for even an hour?

85% of 2th is 1.7th. They have the system running between 1.6 and 1.7. Considering most ASIC equipment has a 10-15% variance between design and production, this is acceptable. Especially considering 1.7TH the first half of February is worth more than 2TH the last half of February. Time to market.

all boxed up before UL testing? sure

You can put the stickers on the boxes before it's certified, provided they're not shipped.

Regardless of the nuances of this discussion, KNC has failed to uphold its protection commitment to its customers. They've had 45 days to do it, and are still dragging their feet.

THAT is the point I'm making.

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