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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012243 times)
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January 16, 2014, 11:15:27 AM
 #28061

Mr. Bitcoinorama said it should level off. My prediction is 0%.

It will level off eventually, but not for a good few months yet.

It will level up when price of electricity spent on the miners equals the price of BTC mined. There's no economic sense to stop before that moment, and people will keep adding the GHs to the network.

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January 16, 2014, 01:12:01 PM
 #28062

Mr. Bitcoinorama said it should level off. My prediction is 0%.

It will level off eventually, but not for a good few months yet.

It will level up when price of electricity spent on the miners equals the price of BTC mined. There's no economic sense to stop before that moment, and people will keep adding the GHs to the network.

I agree, my original comment was referring to the fact it becomes less possible to maintain the disruptive increases as the amount of powerful hardware required becomes substantially more each time. Either the volume of that hardware continues to gather momentum, or the significance in incremental difficulty increase drops.

The moment KnC launched the first step down to the 28nm node it was such a significant leap forward it was able to triple the cumulative network hashrate in a month. The second batch did not have that effect. Right now neither will anybody else's release, however the frequency by which we are expecting new competition to arrive is on the up, not least because many have been delayed to the same(ish) period of time.

I do however wholeheartedly agree, and always have believed that profit margins will be squeezed to such a point by which the returns are close to the costs paid for electricity, as they were with GPUs. Fact is this a low maintenance means of autonomous reward. Brain power aside the initial tech savvy hurdle isn't huge. Not in the same realms of innovating Bitcoins adoption by public where the rewards for those that succeed in that are huge.

Mining just rewards the early adopters willing to take the risk in supporting the idea of a non centralised payment means, and hopefully eventually, a non centralised currency...

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January 16, 2014, 01:31:19 PM
 #28063

They could undercut Cointerra right now. I'm wagering Jupiters cost KNC $1k. They could sell them for $2k, we'd be happy, they'd make 100% profit, and Cointerra would get butthurt.
Although we don't know KNC's asic chip cost, the mere fact they are using (cheap) air cooling vs watercooling and supplying without a PSU in a cheap case must make KNC's costs significantly lower than Cointerra's. IMHO.



When sending the system to them they say to use $1K of insurance. They wouldn't tell you a lesser amount than what their cost is, which is what I'm basing my guesstimate on. It also makes sense as many of the components are common, the casing is stamped aluminum, the fans are dirt cheap, etc..

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January 16, 2014, 04:10:01 PM
 #28064

Mr. Bitcoinorama said it should level off. My prediction is 0%.

It will level off eventually, but not for a good few months yet.

It will level up when price of electricity spent on the miners equals the price of BTC mined. There's no economic sense to stop before that moment, and people will keep adding the GHs to the network.

I agree, my original comment was referring to the fact it becomes less possible to maintain the disruptive increases as the amount of powerful hardware required becomes substantially more each time. Either the volume of that hardware continues to gather momentum, or the significance in incremental difficulty increase drops.

The moment KnC launched the first step down to the 28nm node it was such a significant leap forward it was able to triple the cumulative network hashrate in a month. The second batch did not have that effect. Right now neither will anybody else's release, however the frequency by which we are expecting new competition to arrive is on the up, not least because many have been delayed to the same(ish) period of time.

I do however wholeheartedly agree, and always have believed that profit margins will be squeezed to such a point by which the returns are close to the costs paid for electricity, as they were with GPUs. Fact is this a low maintenance means of autonomous reward. Brain power aside the initial tech savvy hurdle isn't huge. Not in the same realms of innovating Bitcoins adoption by public where the rewards for those that succeed in that are huge.

Mining just rewards the early adopters willing to take the risk in supporting the idea of a non centralised payment means, and hopefully eventually, a non centralised currency...

When retail sales of hardware "level off" and it is no longer viable for John Q Public to buy bitcoin miners, the retailers will build them for themselves and mine themselves as long as the price of BTC keeps going up.

So sir, CES is over, you are back to work, do you have any news of any kind for your loyal customers?


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January 16, 2014, 04:12:11 PM
 #28065

just some KNC info...
here in Melbourne Australia we are going through a heat wave..
I'm surprised that all 3 Jupiters haven't missed a beat and are handling the extreme heat very well.
day                     outside      max Jupiter
                      temp Celsius       temp
13th Monday           34                70
14th Tuesday          43                75
15th Wednesday      43                75
16th Thursday         44                76
17th Tomorrow        44               TBA
EDIT.  the max temps reported above are the rear ASIC boards while the front ones are about 10 degrees Celsius lower.
BTW, I moved my Jupiters from inside my office to the garage where my car lives otherwise they would have roasted my family alive.  Tongue
What does 44C ambient (I assume your garage is even hotter than outside from the Jupiters) do to the hashing level?   Have you lost GH/s?


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January 16, 2014, 04:41:48 PM
 #28066

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.

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January 16, 2014, 04:52:28 PM
 #28067

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.
well, I hope the Neptunes are 220 for your sake.... lol  bold...doing that without knowing...


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January 16, 2014, 05:00:26 PM
 #28068

just some KNC info...
here in Melbourne Australia we are going through a heat wave..
I'm surprised that all 3 Jupiters haven't missed a beat and are handling the extreme heat very well.
day                     outside      max Jupiter
                      temp Celsius       temp
13th Monday           34                70
14th Tuesday          43                75
15th Wednesday      43                75
16th Thursday         44                76
17th Tomorrow        44               TBA
EDIT.  the max temps reported above are the rear ASIC boards while the front ones are about 10 degrees Celsius lower.
BTW, I moved my Jupiters from inside my office to the garage where my car lives otherwise they would have roasted my family alive.  Tongue
What does 44C ambient (I assume your garage is even hotter than outside from the Jupiters) do to the hashing level?   Have you lost GH/s?

Yes, ambient temps are slightly higher in garage as it's a tin roof, but haven't measured it yet. 
When I had them running in my small office and outside temp was 35C, inside office reach as high as 45C

hashing is never changes from day temp max 44C and night temps (min) can be from 23C to 28C. 

jup 1 - 560 GH/s HW errors 0.66%  (560W Cooler Master V850 Gold)
jup 2 - 556 GH/s HW errors 2.0%    (570W Cooler Master V1000 Gold)
jup 3 - 557.5 GH/s HW errors 0.7%  (590W Silver Stone ST1500 Silver)

BTW, I'm running firmware version 0.95 just because most efficient in power consumption. 
Tried other newer firmwares and seen no advantages, but uses 10-15% more watts.
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January 16, 2014, 05:04:44 PM
 #28069

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.

May I ask this is for how many of which miners?



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January 16, 2014, 05:11:12 PM
 #28070

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.
well, I hope the Neptunes are 220 for your sake.... lol  bold...doing that without knowing...

I agree, bold.   Here we typically wire a 220v home dryer with 3 wire.  Three wire is a black, a red, a white, and an uninsulated ground conductor so 3 wire actually has 4 conductors.  In a 220v application like a dryer the current is flowing between the red and the black, not so much the neutral.  This means that if you split the 220 into two 115v lines, both returns will be on the single white.  While if you were to run two 12-2 (12 gauge white, black and an uninsulated ground) you'd have two white 12 gauge neutrals to return the current.  You should know that 12-2 only comes in black, white and uninsulated ground so even tho a strip vertical of circuit breakers in a service will alternate between L1 and L2, they will both have black hot leads.  The only time you'll see the red is for a 220vac application.  So, you can take a long 115vac extension cord and go around with that to other outlets and measure between the top right (hot) to top right and find some where hot to hot will measure 230vac while other hot to hot will measure 0v.

You might also see the red in a 14-3 when dual switches are used in a room when the overhead might be switched from either switch.

The original point being (before edit revisions) that if you need the 115vac to run the Neptune for some reason, you'd be able to split the L1 and L2 (from a 12-3), each to a neutral, giving 115vac on each but the neutral will be carrying current from both - a serious limitation.

Edit: It's been many years since I wired homes and I only have this mobile home to go by now but perhaps dryers 220v is simply the red and black (and ground) while not having a neutral but I don't ever recall seeing such a cable - like down here where they figure nobody with any smarts would live in a mobile home they sometimes use the neutral white for the red.



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Easy2Mine
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PikcioChain ICO Starts on 24th of November


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January 16, 2014, 05:25:36 PM
 #28071

another Warning for KNC friends.... After 18 hours of testing cloudmining in cex.io with hosted gh/s... the btc balance is dropping still. A rip-job IMHO.

What do you mean?
What happened?


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Phoenix1969
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LIR DEV


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January 16, 2014, 05:39:08 PM
 #28072

another Warning for KNC friends.... After 18 hours of testing cloudmining in cex.io with hosted gh/s... the btc balance is dropping still. A rip-job IMHO.

What do you mean?
What happened?
several things... bought 6.9, yet my average hash on the pool is/was 3.2 over the night, and the btc balance is less than when i shut down last night. dont know why.... looks as if some of the fees are more than earned. Im out of that mess now as soon as they let me withdraw. I was almost ready to drop some serious coin on it. anyone having success there?


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r1senfa17h
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January 16, 2014, 06:44:33 PM
 #28073

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.
well, I hope the Neptunes are 220 for your sake.... lol  bold...doing that without knowing...

Yeah, I've got 14 x 220GH/s miners that eat 1kw each arriving soon. They come with 220v power supplies that would probably work on 120v outlets, but I don't want to risk it. I'm expecting them to heat my house (I'm in Michigan) until spring, but I'll probably have to get some ventilation as soon as it starts getting above freezing.

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January 16, 2014, 06:55:25 PM
 #28074



Yeah, I've got 14 x 220GH/s miners that eat 1kw each arriving soon. They come with 220v power supplies that would probably work on 120v outlets, but I don't want to risk it. I'm expecting them to heat my house (I'm in Michigan) until spring, but I'll probably have to get some ventilation as soon as it starts getting above freezing.

I'm the last person to point out power usage vs hashing for this current phase of mining, but I have to say that sounds like a total mess on the monthly expense chart for 3Th

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
kendog77
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January 16, 2014, 07:09:26 PM
 #28075



Yeah, I've got 14 x 220GH/s miners that eat 1kw each arriving soon. They come with 220v power supplies that would probably work on 120v outlets, but I don't want to risk it. I'm expecting them to heat my house (I'm in Michigan) until spring, but I'll probably have to get some ventilation as soon as it starts getting above freezing.

I'm the last person to point out power usage vs hashing for this current phase of mining, but I have to say that sounds like a total mess on the monthly expense chart for 3Th


Agreed. Also, Antminers ship immediately, are the same price as the 220GH/s Avalon units, and use ~3 times less power per GH.

Personally, I won't touch anything with the tarnished Avalon name on it after the bulk chip fiasco.
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#BEL+++


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January 16, 2014, 07:17:02 PM
 #28076

I never keep the web stats page up at all. I barely ever use it and when I did finally use it just to checking something noticed how slow things were going.


Is there any documentation for using the "tune" firmware? Before you start to blow up your rig? How many volts? Frequency, anything like that? Did KNC release anything on that or just threw it at us and said good luck?



Advanced tuning is only usable if your miner is not healthy (dead dies, disabled cores etc.), or you overclocking your machine. I am running 630 GH/s right now with my Oct Jupiter.

630 with 4 modules?


I overclocked my 8 VRM Oct Jupiter which is stable at 680Gh/s (4 modules) which is exactly what my November Jupiters are doing.

please can you tell the settings for this?

thank you!
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January 16, 2014, 07:20:36 PM
 #28077

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.
well, I hope the Neptunes are 220 for your sake.... lol  bold...doing that without knowing...

Yeah, I've got 14 x 220GH/s miners that eat 1kw each arriving soon. They come with 220v power supplies that would probably work on 120v outlets, but I don't want to risk it. I'm expecting them to heat my house (I'm in Michigan) until spring, but I'll probably have to get some ventilation as soon as it starts getting above freezing.

Unless you have a 6,000sq ft house I would expect that you're going to need some HVAC/open windows immediately upon receiving those. The most I can handle is about 8,000 watts in my house in the winter without it getting crazy hot (my house is 3200sq ft). I have a seperate building where my datacenter is to house excess machines that has plenty of cooling, but during the winter I don't keep more than 8kw of machinery in the house. Come end of Feb/March, I move everything into the climate controlled center.
greenbtc
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January 16, 2014, 07:29:52 PM
 #28078

I'm wiring my house with 6 x 30-amp 240v circuits to handle my mining equipment. I'm more worried about cooling to be honest  Wink

Yes, I think the low end, efficient, window AC by Haier got bumped by $30-$50 after the summer.  Went looking the other day.

30 amps at 240v is 7kW. Six of them would be 43kW.  That's 40 btu per second - or 146,722 btu per hour.

A 'low end' window AC isn't going to do much.

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.
well, I hope the Neptunes are 220 for your sake.... lol  bold...doing that without knowing...

It's not bold at all. Almost everything that runs off 110 will run off 220 or 240v with the correct PSU. He's smart, as 220-240v is more efficient and he will be able to handle more Neptunes. You obviously don't have a firm grip on household electricity yet.
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January 16, 2014, 07:32:17 PM
 #28079

You just need a lot of ventilation - replace hot air with air from outside, as long as it's less then 70C outside you'll be fine.

It'll need to exchange at a specific rate as well, at least as fast as it heats up.

Agreed. Also, Antminers ship immediately, are the same price as the 220GH/s Avalon units, and use ~3 times less power per GH.


Where are you getting your power specs to see that they're 3x more efficient than a Neptune? or did I mis-read you.

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January 16, 2014, 07:42:24 PM
 #28080


Where are you getting your power specs to see that they're 3x more efficient than a Neptune? or did I mis-read you.

he was comparing antminer vs avalon2

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