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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012956 times)
Nono242
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February 04, 2014, 04:29:29 PM
 #29261

So, the Neptune isn't taped out yet. The chip is still on development. After is taped out, it takes again roughly 3 months at least before the chip comes out of the fab. We will never see the Neptune before end of May at the earliest.

With their Jupiter modules they prefer to mine instead of selling the modules.

They don't say when the plan B will be activated precisely so that might be end of June.

Very disappointing KnC.
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atadro
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February 04, 2014, 04:34:54 PM
 #29262

Ok so KnC just turned from white to grey for me. While i don't care so much about the Neptune delay, what i care is that they are building a big datacenter in order to cover all Neptune Batch 1 customers in case of delay. That means at least 3Th/s * 1200 units=3600 Th/s just for them (yes they will hash for Batch 1 customers but only in case of a delay and just for a limited amount of time). That 3600Th is more than the promissed 5% (maybe it will be 5% after they ship the Neptunes, but until then it's just greed).

Instead of selling 1-2 Jupiters to previous customers they go their own way and keep all Jupiters for them. Avalon did it, Bitfury did it, BFL did it. The dark side is too powerful in the Bitcoin world.

can't forget about the rule of ASIC hardware vendors

contracts with investors > promises to investomers
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February 04, 2014, 04:37:36 PM
 #29263

Just caught the newsletter. So basically, what Avenger and I have been saying for quite awhile, has come to truth. They absolutely ignored their NPS for their Batch 1/2 customers, and have been hoarding 28nm. Unless I'm taking that newsletter entirely wrong.

Don't you like how they talked about the NPS as if it related to the Neptune customers, when it didn't? Am I one of the few in this thread to notice that?

And how they're talking about things "as the end of the NPS phase" comes. Fancy wording. Basically they're like "lol, we held out and nobody held our feet to the fire". Competition has been shipping for almost 2 months now, throughout the entire NPS phase.

Anyone seeing this as good, stop being optimistic and be a little more analytical: they're basically putting on a parachute because they're not 100% sure of their internal milestones anylonger. This way their ass doesn't skid on your face as hard as a pure crash.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but they're going to be using on-hand 28nm systems to provide the 3TH per Neptune customer (the first 1,200) if they're late. They supposedly only ever kept 5% of their total deployed hashrate. Is 5% of their original deployed hashrate equal to or less than 1,200 3TH machines? ..... Something to think about.

They've clearly jumped ship from the community, from supporting you folks who propped them up with your free capital loans.

Glad I didn't bank on KNC this time.

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February 04, 2014, 04:41:01 PM
 #29264

Ok so KnC just turned from white to grey for me. While i don't care so much about the Neptune delay, what i care is that they are building a big datacenter in order to cover all Neptune Batch 1 customers in case of delay. That means at least 3Th/s * 1200 units=3600 Th/s just for them (yes they will hash for Batch 1 customers but only in case of a delay and just for a limited amount of time). That 3600Th is more than the promissed 5% (maybe it will be 5% after they ship the Neptunes, but until then it's just greed).

Instead of selling 1-2 Jupiters to previous customers they go their own way and keep all Jupiters for them. Avalon did it, Bitfury did it, BFL did it. The dark side is too powerful in the Bitcoin world.

I think they'll start selling hash rate once they're done with shipping/hosting Neptunes

I think they can get more $ per GH now from loyal customers than after they are done shipping Neptunes, unless they go Bitfury style with way overpriced plans/miners to catch some suckers in.

What i don't understand is why make a big datacenter now with Jupiters when you can set things up and do it with Neptunes with lower power consumption than Jupiters unless they plan to sell them after they have Neptunes in hands.

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February 04, 2014, 04:43:15 PM
 #29265


What i don't understand is why make a big datacenter now with Jupiters when you can set things up and do it with Neptunes with lower power consumption than Jupiters unless they plan to sell them after they have Neptunes in hands.

Because they don't have Neptunes now, they have Jupiters. One of the most important factors, beyond efficiency, is mining now vs later. Which is why the folks using antminers and the other chinese equipment over the past 45 days, will make more than someone getting a Neptune 3 months from now.

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February 04, 2014, 04:43:51 PM
 #29266

plan C : sell the Ghs to cex.io when neptune will ship out
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February 04, 2014, 04:50:37 PM
 #29267

Yeah.. I'm not a KnC customer - BFL (ugh) and HF (ugh) - but when I saw this, my first reaction (and it remains my reaction) is that the consumer-miner is out of business once the present generation of machines is no longer viable - those are already delivered or whose delivery is obliged by contract. 

We're walking dead.  Zombies.  Mining will now be done by chip companies, probably allied with capital for datacenter fab and operation.  You might buy shares, but shares that will only ROI with steep BTC appreciation.  It's over.  And I barely even started!
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February 04, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
 #29268

Good to see you all funded a new data center.

Good Luck.

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DPoS
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February 04, 2014, 04:54:42 PM
 #29269


We're walking dead.  Zombies.  Mining will now be done by chip companies, probably allied with capital for datacenter fab and operation.  You might buy shares, but shares that will only ROI with steep BTC appreciation.  It's over.  And I barely even started!

all we can hope for now is a repeat of the video game glut of 1982...  let it all fall down and we can come back later and pick from the remains in a few years

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February 04, 2014, 04:54:57 PM
 #29270

Yeah.. I'm not a KnC customer - BFL (ugh) and HF (ugh) - but when I saw this, my first reaction (and it remains my reaction) is that the consumer-miner is out of business once the present generation of machines is no longer viable - those are already delivered or whose delivery is obliged by contract. 

We're walking dead.  Zombies.  Mining will now be done by chip companies, probably allied with capital for datacenter fab and operation.  You might buy shares, but shares that will only ROI with steep BTC appreciation.  It's over.  And I barely even started!

Was there ever any other end scenario?

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The Avenger
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February 04, 2014, 04:58:21 PM
 #29271

Just caught the newsletter. So basically, what Avenger and I have been saying for quite awhile, has come to truth.

How to stop the refunds? Distract people with a sale of jupiter boards? Tell people they've taped out neptune, which will keep everyone on board for a few more months? Tell everyone they are definitely delivering in April and then announcing on May 1st they have a delay (the way they normally wait until a day after something was promised and announce some issue, i.e. 16th October, November jupiters) to keep people hanging on?

Or are they just so set on their future in the cloud hashing business, they don't really care about the small time buyers of neptune? They'll say nothing and give refunds to those who ask?

So, the "Plan B" promise is their attempt to encourage people not to refund.

But really, as I called it, they don't care if people refund or not. Ultimately, it'll save them having to put 3TH aside and run it for "free" for x months until they can ship physical goods.

I'm sure they'd like to 100% fund the data centre from the neptune mark-up, but, hell, worst case scenerio, they might have to spend a little of their own money Cheesy

P.S. I see the KnC Director of Communications has logged in again since the last time, to answer all your questions. I guess I just can't see his posts...

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augustocroppo
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February 04, 2014, 05:05:58 PM
 #29272

 Cheesy

Hey Bitcoinorama, how is the "plateau" effect going on?

finally the increase seems to flatten Smiley
Weird, because with this high BTC value I can image some are even turning on gpus for BTC again..

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin-2k.png
http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

I said it would plateau a few weeks back and was laughed out of the thread, someone threatened to remind me about it to, 'saved for posterity' I believe.

Fact is, there it was, the largest shift in Bitcoin tech, with not really anything else coming online currently, certainly not in line with what just occured. That seismic shift in hashrate, equal to the entire cumulative hashrate since Bitcoins inception 4 3/4 years ago will never reoccur with such impact, in such a short period of time ever again.

Wink
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February 04, 2014, 05:08:35 PM
 #29273

When BTC hits $2K, then $5K, then $50K due to the laws of supply and demand...I think we're all going to look back on this and wonder why we complained so much.

It's best to buy coins now.  They may fall a bit more to $600 as a new bottom...but coins are becoming more rare with each passing difficulty increase and a constant new influx of people and services wanting to use them.  The majority of the worlds big money investors still have yet to jump in.  People should be jumping in now before they do.
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February 04, 2014, 05:11:11 PM
 #29274

Sadly, it seems to me, that KNC have used the Neptune pre-orders to crowd-fund not only the 20nm Neptune development NRE costs but also the costs of setting up a new data centre in Sweden and probably with the change left over they have bought a big batch of Jupiters to fill it with.
Once the Jupiters are online the BTC from them between now and 1st July should give them a tidy profit, I think. I guess they have their current hosting facility stuffed with them already.
If they have set it up right it will be continuous production with re-investment acceleating the hardware mountain they are building.
They could even turn the Neptune into a "virtual product" that you never physically receive.
They could just give everyone equivilent hash power in their data centre and say there you go, that's your Neptune.
Delivery problems solved! (for them).
No need to worry about centralisation, we've got it covered!


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DPoS
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February 04, 2014, 05:28:16 PM
 #29275

Cheesy

Hey Bitcoinorama, how is the "plateau" effect going on?



there is just way too much profit with their 28nm costs all paid down to not just pump them to da moon for themselves

at least asicminer had shareholders..we should of asked to buy shares, not modules


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February 04, 2014, 05:29:03 PM
 #29276

When BTC hits $2K, then $5K, then $50K due to the laws of supply and demand...I think we're all going to look back on this and wonder why we complained so much.


mining doesn't change BTC price..    BTC price changes mining

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February 04, 2014, 05:33:18 PM
 #29277

So, as suspected, the new business plan is cloud hashing.  After the Neptunes all get delivered, there will be no more equipment deliveries from KNC.  They got sick of all the customer complaints, RMAs, shipping costs, etc.

Going forward, they will sell hashing power only.  They are building the data center regardless of Plan A or Plan B.  The only questions is, where the hashing power/coins will be directed. 

Once it is built and all of the Jupiters are hashing, they will either direct the hashing power to Neptune customers (Plan B) or start selling it (Plan A).

What worries me is that they said they will mine to your wallet rather than to your chosen pool.  What this really means is that KNC will be mining and collecting/stockpiling Bitcoins and then paying out the calculated number of Bitcoins to your wallet.  This means low variance since you get the number of coins calculated by the hash power/difficulty but it also means centralization since you can't move the hashing power elsewhere to balance the network.
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February 04, 2014, 05:35:01 PM
 #29278

This all is a big smoke screen it seems. I'm trying to make sense out of it and am having av difficult time.

I have a batch 1 order. Wtf does this mean? I don't see how this info helps me make an intelligent decision... Do I hodl or bail and reinvest elsewhere?
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February 04, 2014, 05:35:53 PM
 #29279

What worries me is that they said they will mine to your wallet rather than to your chosen pool.  What this really means is that KNC will be mining and collecting/stockpiling Bitcoins and then paying out the calculated number of Bitcoins to your wallet.  This means low variance since you get the number of coins calculated by the hash power/difficulty but it also means centralization since you can't move the hashing power elsewhere to balance the network.

Looks like CEX.io and ghash.io have some competition. 
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February 04, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
 #29280

So, as suspected, the new business plan is cloud hashing.  After the Neptunes all get delivered, there will be no more equipment deliveries from KNC.  They got sick of all the customer complaints, RMAs, shipping costs, etc.

Going forward, they will sell hashing power only.  They are building the data center regardless of Plan A or Plan B.  The only questions is, where the hashing power/coins will be directed. 

Once it is built and all of the Jupiters are hashing, they will either direct the hashing power to Neptune customers (Plan B) or start selling it (Plan A).

What worries me is that they said they will mine to your wallet rather than to your chosen pool.  What this really means is that KNC will be mining and collecting/stockpiling Bitcoins and then paying out the calculated number of Bitcoins to your wallet.  This means low variance since you get the number of coins calculated by the hash power/difficulty but it also means centralization since you can't move the hashing power elsewhere to balance the network.

As i have stated in burnin's thread I do understand getting sick of customer complaints, but i don't understand why can't they sell to some select customers?

What if Neptune Batch 1 customers get their 3Th/s before the Neptune comes out and until the moment of actual shipping? That would kick ass!

What worries me is that they said they will mine to your wallet rather than to your chosen pool.  What this really means is that KNC will be mining and collecting/stockpiling Bitcoins and then paying out the calculated number of Bitcoins to your wallet.  This means low variance since you get the number of coins calculated by the hash power/difficulty but it also means centralization since you can't move the hashing power elsewhere to balance the network.

Looks like CEX.io and ghash.io have some competition. 

They are all in on all fronts!

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