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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007350 times)
Phoenix1969
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January 24, 2014, 10:35:31 PM
 #28741

Not a single customer has been charged VAT by KNC as far as I know; it's all done external.
Yup, you are exactly right.... as far as you know. :-)

But in the meantime, as a European purchaser, UK specifically... I can assure anyone that cancellation includes purchase price, the VAT charged by KnC & shipping. I lost a few hundred £ unfortunately due to currency fluctuation... But the refund was completed within a week of being requested.
Are you telling me, that KNC charged you a VAT, collected that VAT upon purchase, and never refunded it when you refunded your order??

Errrrr... No? Full refund of everything..... I only lost money due to they difference in USD to GBP exchange between Dec. 2 and refund a couple weeks ago..
kk, thanks


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PikcioChain ICO Starts on 24th of November


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January 24, 2014, 10:40:14 PM
 #28742

@tdcooper99
Thank you for your info


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timmmers
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January 24, 2014, 10:40:56 PM
 #28743

Not a single customer has been charged VAT by KNC as far as I know; it's all done external.

Yup, you are exactly right.... as far as you know. :-)

But in the meantime, as a European purchaser, UK specifically... I can assure anyone that cancellation includes purchase price, the VAT charged by KnC & shipping. I lost a few hundred £ unfortunately due to currency fluctuation... But the refund was completed within a week of being requested.
Are you telling me, that KNC charged you a VAT, collected that VAT upon purchase, and never refunded it when you refunded your order??

No, he says he got the VAT back. KNC don't pay the VAT right away, they pay it on sales later in the year so a refund isn't a sale anymore on their books and doesn't require any VAT. They collect it on the govt's behalf, the govt doesn't get it ...something that pisses a lot of small businesses off if they only just cross the VAT threshold, they may not have predicted they'd do that and not charge VAT, then become liable for it at year end when their sales exceed their pedictions. Some businesses even stay closed to avoid needing to register for VAT.

IF they keep  any of your payment it's fraud unless there's a cancellation penalty clause.

With Sweden now classing mining as a business because BTC is a commodity liable for CGT on profits, it may even pay for miners there to register for VAT so they can claim it back...along with relief on capital expenditure on rigs and power etc it could make a serious difference now the game got a lot more industrial. How will they measure profits? No clue. lol
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January 24, 2014, 10:53:26 PM
 #28744

Time to lower your prices KNC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=429513.120

Impossible is a word found only in the dictionary of fools.
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January 24, 2014, 11:25:53 PM
 #28745

I find it "amusing" that last summer there were updates every week, sometimes several times a week, but now almost two months has passed without a peep about Neptune.
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January 24, 2014, 11:37:15 PM
 #28746

I find it "amusing" that last summer there were updates every week, sometimes several times a week, but now almost two months has passed without a peep about Neptune.

+1

like i said, popularity went to their heads and they got cocky.

now with decent competition, they wont be around for too much longer.
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January 24, 2014, 11:37:37 PM
 #28747

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves? Would you sell the opportunity to make a lot of money to random people for less money? Would you sell 100 dollars in the future for 20 dollars now?

With 28nm they have paid all their costs, made a lot of profit, so they have absolutely nothing to lose with deciding to keep all hardware and mine for themselves. What they have is a very rare opportunity to become one of the richest companies in the world if Bitcoin turns out to be what it was designed to be Smiley

Neptune is the same thing all over again: we fund, they ship what was ordered and then establish themselves as the leading mining company in the Bitcoin world.


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January 24, 2014, 11:43:32 PM
 #28748

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves? Would you sell the opportunity to make a lot of money to random people for less money? Would you sell 100 dollars in the future for 20 dollars now?

With 28nm they have paid all their costs, made a lot of profit, so they have absolutely nothing to lose with deciding to keep all hardware and mine for themselves. What they have is a very rare opportunity to become one of the richest companies in the world if Bitcoin turns out to be what it was designed to be Smiley

Neptune is the same thing all over again: we fund, they ship what was ordered and then establish themselves as the leading mining company in the Bitcoin world.



It would not make much sense because they would be unhedged to the value of BTC. Selling some, mining some seems like a best of both worlds.
Where else customers are paying for your design? Nowhere, but in bitcoin mining hardware. What would you say if coinbase asked to prepay for the development of the wallet? There are usually VCs who pay for this, but they also got to keep the business interest. LOL
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January 24, 2014, 11:45:56 PM
 #28749

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves? Would you sell the opportunity to make a lot of money to random people for less money? Would you sell 100 dollars in the future for 20 dollars now?

With 28nm they have paid all their costs, made a lot of profit, so they have absolutely nothing to lose with deciding to keep all hardware and mine for themselves. What they have is a very rare opportunity to become one of the richest companies in the world if Bitcoin turns out to be what it was designed to be Smiley

Neptune is the same thing all over again: we fund, they ship what was ordered and then establish themselves as the leading mining company in the Bitcoin world.



It would not make much sense because they would be unhedged to the value of BTC. Selling some, mining some seems like a best of both worlds.
Where else customers are paying for your design? Nowhere, but in bitcoin mining hardware. What would you say if coinbase asked to prepay for the development of the wallet? There are usually VCs who pay for this, but they also got to keep the business interest. LOL

With a couple of millions in their pockets what is there to risk?

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January 25, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
 #28750

At one point, knc said their devices accounted for 70% of the bitcoin network. So that would be 2520BTC/day.

They are supposed to be mining 5% of the total themselves, so 126BTC/day back in October.

If they were cashing that in daily, they were making (average $1000/btc) $126,000 per day mining BTC. $882,000 a week.

Difficulty increases, bitcoin price has gone up and down. Let's say it averages out at about $500,000/week and roughly it's been 12 weeks =

$6million in mining profits. No costs, as that is all passed onto the people paying for their datacentre.

Who would want to share that with anyone?  Cheesy

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January 25, 2014, 12:06:12 AM
 #28751

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?

There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves.

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January 25, 2014, 12:28:36 AM
 #28752

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?

There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves.

Not exactly  true now maybe, they will pay capital gains tax on mining profits.. I hear tell that's 30% over there? Also, they aren't paying 13k for a Neptune or what we paid for the last rigs..they pay cost price, so much less needs to be mined to break even.

If a Jup cost them 2k to build, it changes things compared to our situation. They are probably the only ones running KNC rigs who will break even in bitcoins. If a day 2 Jup has only mined 50 coins so far and cost about 70 as posted a day or so ago.
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January 25, 2014, 12:46:43 AM
 #28753

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?

There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves.

KNC are not Ebay, so not true. A Jupiter sold now would probably be priced less than $5000, which is 6.25BTC.
You don't think they can't mine 6.25BTC, do you?

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January 25, 2014, 01:40:26 AM
 #28754

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?

There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves.

KNC are not Ebay, so not true. A Jupiter sold now would probably be priced less than $5000, which is 6.25BTC.
You don't think they can't mine 6.25BTC, do you?

570 GHs Jupiter, if starting to mine today, would probably mine 6-6.5 BTC in it's lifetime. You are partly right it just may brake even if it's priced 6.25BTC, but if it is delivered two weeks from now it would very probably not break even by a large margin.

My point was they can price Jupiter 8 BTC, and I would bet with you they would sell every last one they put on the market.


If a Jup cost them 2k to build, it changes things compared to our situation.

It doesn't matter how much it costs to manufacture Jupiter, KnC pays that costs in any case, it only matters to them if they can earn more money by selling or mining with it, and they can certainly make more by selling it.

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January 25, 2014, 01:59:58 AM
 #28755


It doesn't matter how much it costs to manufacture Jupiter, KnC pays that costs in any case, it only matters to them if they can earn more money by selling or mining with it, and they can certainly make more by selling it.

Yeah I know, that's what I meant. With no risk compared to mining too. They are in an amazingly profitable business for now.
I can't think of another business where upfront costs are paid by customers then it's all profit and you still own the company with no shareholders or investors to answer to. No wonder so many are popping up trying to get into the game now.
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January 25, 2014, 02:07:21 AM
 #28756

Sometimes I wonder: why would KNC sell more Jupiters to the general public or even previous customers when they can build them and use them for themselves?

There's very simple explanation why KnC would never do this: They can always sell the miners for more BTC then they will ever mine with them. People are extremely optimistic about difficulty increases, they don't believe hard facts they are getting from mining calculators, and many just want to mine regardless if they may mine with some BTC loss. How many times you've seen BTC/US$ ratio mentioned in the profit calculation, no matter if the miner is payed in BTC? This all boils to the fact that people are willing to overpay for any miner, not just KnC, so KnC would be crazy to keep the Jupiters for themselves and reduce their profits, when they can sell them for more than BTC amount that will ever be mined with them. You can be sure no miner manufacturer is keeping the miners for themselves.

KNC are not Ebay, so not true. A Jupiter sold now would probably be priced less than $5000, which is 6.25BTC.
You don't think they can't mine 6.25BTC, do you?

570 GHs Jupiter, if starting to mine today, would probably mine 6-6.5 BTC in it's lifetime. You are partly right it just may brake even if it's priced 6.25BTC, but if it is delivered two weeks from now it would very probably not break even by a large margin.

My point was they can price Jupiter 8 BTC, and I would bet with you they would sell every last one they put on the market.


If a Jup cost them 2k to build, it changes things compared to our situation.

It doesn't matter how much it costs to manufacture Jupiter, KnC pays that costs in any case, it only matters to them if they can earn more money by selling or mining with it, and they can certainly make more by selling it.

Why 570GH/s? They have a finished product hashing at 670GH/s stock.
Also your prediction of 6.5BTC in a lifetime for a 570GH/s miner is a bit unrealistic if you ask me: http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=2193847870&dcosts=500&diff_mincrease=35&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=570000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=844.28&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

I predict that a 670GH/s miner would produce around 10BTC in total: http://btcinvest.net/en/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=2193847870&dcosts=500&diff_mincrease=25&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=670000&diff_mincreasedecrease=3&btcusd=844.28&dpowcon=30&btcusd_mincrease=1&pcost=0.25&calcweeks=32&dleadtime=0&action=calc

Also they price their products in USD and I highly doubt that the price would be above $5000 if they release more Jupiters for sale.

My point was that even if it is a gamble to keep the miners it is a gamble worth the risk.

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January 25, 2014, 02:43:53 AM
 #28757

CTS is legit.
Traced them finally...   http://www.cms.uk.com/   they are indeed a subsidiary, and in the same building, and same voice on recording, and one digit off on tele #  and My brother talked with Rebecca.  I still don't want one though.
I tracked them down to CMS a few hour ago, thanks for the credit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=429513.msg4714999#msg4714999

And I am 99% certain they are a SCAM. Don't say they are legit when they have produced NO credentials.

Really?  What about this posted in their thread?...

Seems legit. I hope they can push the delivery forward to 1st April though Tongue
Change your mind?....or playin' both sides?
I felt same way, obviously.. except the part about april 1st

April 1st rolls around....  we get a post...."April Fools", and the site disappears.... hehe


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CYPER
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January 25, 2014, 03:00:31 AM
 #28758

CTS is legit.
Traced them finally...   http://www.cms.uk.com/   they are indeed a subsidiary, and in the same building, and same voice on recording, and one digit off on tele #  and My brother talked with Rebecca.  I still don't want one though.
I tracked them down to CMS a few hour ago, thanks for the credit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=429513.msg4714999#msg4714999

And I am 99% certain they are a SCAM. Don't say they are legit when they have produced NO credentials.

Really?  What about this posted in their thread?...

Seems legit. I hope they can push the delivery forward to 1st April though Tongue
Change your mind?....or playin' both sides?
I felt same way, obviously.. except the part about april 1st

April 1st rolls around....  we get a post...."April Fools", and the site disappears.... hehe

Sarcams. Do you speak it?  Grin

If this post helped you and you feel generous you know what to do: 1P9tXFy9bVgzrfPGeV7F8np26ZtFdCCWvz
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January 25, 2014, 04:11:00 AM
 #28759


http://www.ctsminer.com/

they are such a scam (also read the above bitcoin thread pretty much have debunked these guys hard)....on website creation location amount of supposed orders sold 5kbtc in 2hrs stuff like that

i offer as an example on HOW to take a chance on sometjhing like this...I ordered from www.alpha-t.net the litecoin asic maker that took 1/3 down with paypal and amex cc via paypal

they are likely NOT a scam..but seem somewhat clueless on how to proceed i will likely pull my order within 30 days (my timeline) I have 45 days under paypal

also www.kncminer.com had LINE DRAWINGS on their site (shudder) ...but they did take paypal via cc so took a chance with them on further info took the chance and worked out

the above place don't take paypal btc no refunds etc etc usual scam if you read the thread and pages on their site

it is ok to take a chance on such stuff BUT HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY...even if they are legit does not mean they know what they are doing

Searing

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Paladin69
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January 25, 2014, 04:31:34 AM
 #28760

I suppose it isn't possible to use this to bypass the controller board and mine directly with a PC?

http://www.cablesonline.com/mo10he2toduu.html
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