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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012010 times)
iCEBREAKER
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May 28, 2016, 12:32:00 AM
 #42301

Thank you Sweden for your retard laws. Thank you EU for your retard laws too!

Consumers don't get to whine about ROI.  Whining about ROI is the privilege of businesses and businesspeople.

The lawyer's statement is written in very clear English:

Quote
"The main reason we lost is because the court judged that the plaintiffs weren’t consumers. And the reason for that was because we said that, these machines you can own and use them for making money. And the purpose of the purchase can only be to make money. So, therefore, the court deemed the plaintiffs to be businesses."


This isn't hard to understand, at least for those of us with a brain and lacking a massive sense of entitlement to guaranteed profits.

I'm sure it's more difficult for RoadStress, who is convinced every ASIC manufacture not named "SPONDOOLIES" automatically becomes guilty of scamming (and incompetence, etc.) the second they lose the bet they made on future price/difficulty.

Another asinine thing RoadStress does is blame venues *only* after a venue (IE Court of Law) reaches a conclusion he doesn't agree with.

That's stunningly fuck-witted "sour grapes" behavior.

We are expected to believe RoadStress knows better than the Judges in the EU, just as he knows better than the Bankruptcy Court here in the USA.   Cheesy

This guy really can't stand being proven wrong, especially when the proof is irrefutable, having been provided by the highly specialized information gathering and analyzing apparatus of the legal process.

He's so mad about being stuck on the losing side of the 20MB Gavinblock fiasco, he'll never forgive me for being on the winning side (and generally rubbing his stupid face in his shitty logic for the last few years).

If only RoadStress wrote the laws in the EU and Sweden...  Then it would be impossible to lose money on risky ASIC pre-orders!   Grin Grin Grin


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iCEBREAKER
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May 28, 2016, 01:02:19 AM
 #42302

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

The Court (not "a company") declared miners (not just a random "someone") are operating for profit, which qualifies as business.  Duh....

KnC's job was to make ASICs, not verify whether or not buyers are businesses.  Who do you get such crazy, crap ideas from?  RoadStress?

The Court's decision is entirely clear and easily understandable.

Your problem is your vision being obscured by so much Monday Morning Quarterback crap.

Now, let's all laugh at the ongoing spectacle of Radical Libertarian Bitcoiners pleading for relief before The State, because an extremely risky voluntary transaction didn't generate the winning gamble they desired.

"Boo Hoo Your Honor; Muh anti-statist Disruption was disrupted by [Evil ASIC company].  Pleez kiss my boo-boo and make it all better for me!"
Roll Eyes


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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May 28, 2016, 07:59:19 AM
 #42303

how can anyone defend these shits??

trolling for lulz, mental malfunction or NDA clause? (thou shalt blame our victims)
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May 28, 2016, 09:47:20 AM
 #42304

So creandum, one of kfc's investors, made a statement

http://www.creandum.com/in-startups-sometimes-things-arent-meant-to-be

The line that caught my eye:
"However, the company recently encountered large technical issues"

All their crappy 16nm chips starting to fail?  Cheesy

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May 28, 2016, 10:30:51 AM
 #42305

http://digital.di.se/artikel/bitcoinkursen-knackte-knc-miner--ansoker-om-konkurs

Quote from Scam:

"With us it was about to go to the moon or nowhere. We never aimed to build a medium-sized company. Our investors are not happy, but they understand the situation. "

For sure investors pulled the plug on Scam, because he made bad decisions. Classic or Core? Ha ha.

Also, looks like Scam might still be banking on dogecoin with that "to the moon" comment Cheesy



Much laugh, many karma.

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May 28, 2016, 12:03:12 PM
 #42306

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

It absolutely can and it was probably in the T&Cs. As doing it reduces liability, removes the protection of the DSRs and generally reduces consumer protection its highly likely that they would have worked this out.

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May 28, 2016, 12:50:20 PM
 #42307

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

It absolutely can and it was probably in the T&Cs. As doing it reduces liability, removes the protection of the DSRs and generally reduces consumer protection its highly likely that they would have worked this out.


or at least in Sweden with ASIC machines you can do this....from the results of the court case that is clear indeed..you mine with an asic built in Sweden you are a business...

(evil they are...nimble they are...)

and of course all the 'being cut off at the knees just when profit (ipo) or equip (miners) were to be had ...all knc's efforts have gone to this ...and as far as I know THIS IS NOT
part of the bankruptcy

http://www.kncminer.com/blog/newsarchive


heh.......evil geniuses they are indeed Smiley

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May 28, 2016, 09:15:51 PM
 #42308

Quote from Scam:

"With us it was about to go to the moon or nowhere. We never aimed to build a medium-sized company. Our investors are not happy, but they understand the situation. "

This is so outrageous. I'm glad that all I have bought from them is a KnC Saturn from second hand market. Their business model sucked from the beginning until the end.
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May 28, 2016, 10:19:08 PM
 #42309

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.
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May 28, 2016, 10:19:44 PM
 #42310



http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-declares-bankruptcy-cites-upcoming-bitcoin-subsidy-halving/

Good riddance KNC. BTC is having a little celebration today too.

~LOL~
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May 29, 2016, 04:45:53 AM
 #42311

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.


NOT at the time I ordered my Neptune and converted it to a Titan (Feb 2015) THAT came later..I looked....they litterally just added it and tried to back
date the web pages .same when they said it was 90 day warranty and tried to back date the pages as it was origianally a scrypt miner to an ltc miner
when they had multipool issues on  first firmware...

So NO...IF my Nov 2014 unit was in the class action ..it would still be applied by the Swedish decision that I was a business despite that.....the ruling was

if you bought a miner you were automatically a business ....w/o having to agree to such ...all that the added later (not that you can tell with knc forums

down on the above controversy's in chat)

They sold it as a 'consumer home miner product' like the previous Jupiter's etc.....and only after the fact did they say it was you are  business later (cause they could)

probably because I know of ONE GUY the first one..who DID get his miner refunded under EU consumer protection law (on knc forums) due to shoddy workmanship of

the first units..then suddenly all this you are a business stuff pop'd up (or at least I remember how this worked at the time) also ONE person also on knc forums

got redress thru a Swedish consumer protection agency the same way...but others tried and knc convinced them that users were a business so that agency

stopped or was no longer able to process refunds in that manner.....they locked up this stuff pretty quick ...again how I remember it ..others from knc forum days

can chime in here

again 'we do evil well' tm knc


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May 29, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
 #42312

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.


NOT at the time I ordered my Neptune and converted it to a Titan (Feb 2015) THAT came later..I looked....

I am not defending the tossers but I was a 2nd day Titan pre-order and it was in there at that time.
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May 29, 2016, 04:04:30 PM
 #42313

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been more forthcoming with info on the case but as you can imagine there is still a lot going on behind the scenes and with KNC now bankrupt (karma's a bitch huh) we need to figure out how this affects us. Once we all know where we stand I'll be back to give a full account of the case from my perspective, as I cannot speak for the others plaintiffs and will try to answer any questions you have.

Cheers

R
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May 29, 2016, 04:48:06 PM
 #42314

Is there something like a "compulsory settlement" in Sweden? Do you have to have your bankruptcy filed before that is possible?
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May 29, 2016, 07:28:15 PM
 #42315

I hope my/our postings here played some small part in the education of their 16nm investors.

I also hope those Black Hole investors are very very vindictive.


YMMV
Smiley

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May 29, 2016, 07:51:26 PM
 #42316

I also hope those Black Hole investors are very very vindictive.
Me too. We know they are angry, let's hope they put that into action Smiley I'd say kfc deceived them as much as they did us. At the very least, kfc probably pretended to be experts when they are no more than amateurs. Core vs Classic anyone?

No doubt kfc had to sign contracts in the VC's favor, the same way we agreed to T&C's that favoured kfc.

So hopefully VC's can rip them to pieces and take a substantial amount/all their retirement btc from them Tongue Grin

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May 30, 2016, 09:50:41 AM
 #42317

There are people who are suggesting the kfc bankruptcy is just a company restucture and not really anything actually bad for Scam and the gang. If shit doesn't hit the fan somewhere, then it's most likely they are using it a way to get rid of the soon to be unprofitable mining side of business at the least cost.

They are keeping the XBT side of the business, which is where to keep an eye on developments I think.

It'll be interesting to see if Scam remains on the board of XBT Provider AB. He's listed as one of the executives.
http://www.allabolag.se/5590013313/befattningar

They've mentioned the bankruptcy on their blog http://xbtprovider.com/lang_en/news

Hopefully they've fucked themselves, as it states in this FT article the business has some reliance on kfc mining
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/29/2128137/calling-all-muppets-bitcoin-miner-has-some-bitcoin-etns-to-sell/

i.e.
    "We are aiming to do all hedging in the open market but have the option to access bitcoin liquidity from KnC Group in case of emergency."

A further comment included the line:

    "We have very strict internal rules regarding exposure and operational risks, all scrutinized by our compliance officer and risk manager as well as Nasdaq OMX. Counterparty risk is greatly reduced by the fact that KnC Group guarantees the liabilities of XBT Provider as specified in our prospectus (under translation to English)"

Also interesting to note in that article is the statement:

"Namely, KnC was forced to depreciate its ASIC infrastructure assets (bitcoin miners) because of the high pace of development in the industry for cryptographic currencies.

The document adds that the number of employees must as a result be reduced in 2015 to reflect these costs."

As you'll (not) remember, Scam gave totally different reasons for these layoffs in his statement (LYING AS USUAL):
http://www.breakit.se/artikel/2692/ett-tiotal-heltidsanstallda-tvingas-ga-fran-bitcoinbolaget-knc-miner

"According to Sam Cole redundancies due partly to the company encountered unexpected competition and partly due to the expected reduction in energy tax in Sweden dragged on."

XBT's twitter is the only source of hope, which says they have stopped trading:

XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 28
We are meeting with Nasdaq on Monday. Trying to resume trading in our instruments ASAP. All questions welcome to info@xbtprovider.com

 XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 27 Stockholm, Sverige
Trading halted but XBT Provider and investor assets are not affected by the KnC bankruptcy. Our instruments are always fully hedged

Go Scam! Bring everyone down with you Tongue

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May 30, 2016, 01:21:17 PM
 #42318

If this company is bankrupt, why are they still finding blocks?

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May 30, 2016, 05:01:21 PM
 #42319

http://xbtprovider.com/lang_en/news


Quote
Instruments’ trading halted pending approval of new guarantor
Monday 30th May

STOCKHOLM, Sweden., May. 30, 2016 -- Trading on XBT Provider’s bitcoin ETNs, Bitcoin Tracker One and Bitcoin Tracker EUR, will be halted pending approval of a new guarantor

XBT Provider is currently in discussion with multiple interested parties and is planning to present a new guarantor to Nasdaq as soon as an agreement has been reached

The reason for the trading halt is the bankruptcy of KnC Group AB, XBT Provider’s former guarantor. That event does not, however, in any way affect investor assets, since the notes are always fully hedged by holding the underlying (bitcoins) in secure storage.

XBT Provider is working hard in order to resume trading in the instruments on Nasdaq Nordic and will keep the markets informed on any developments.The value of the instruments can be followed on our web-page xbtprovider.com.

If there will be no quick resolution, XBT Provider will offer a redemption program for investors to accommodate those wishing to exit the instrument before a new guarantor is in place.

Bitcoin Tracker One and Bitcoin Tracker EUR are designed to provide investors with convenient and liquid access to the returns of the underlying asset, bitcoin, and exposure to blockchain technology. XBT provider is at all times fully hedged, and always hold bitcoins equivalent to the value of ETNs issued. XBT Provider's prospectus is approved by the Swedish FSA (Finansinspektionen) and is issued for trading on Nasdaq Nordic.

So it seems Scam didn't even tell this company (that he is an executive of) that kfc were about to go bankrupt. I hope they pay him a bonus  Wink

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May 30, 2016, 10:02:00 PM
 #42320

XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 27 Stockholm, Sverige
Trading halted but XBT Provider and investor assets are not affected by the KnC bankruptcy. Our instruments are always fully hedged

Fully hedged by claims on a KNC bitcoin stash ? With KNC now in receivership, aren't those coins KNC company assets against which secured creditors can stake a claim ? Or did they whip 'em out from underneath KNC and move them to XBT Provider ?

Murky.
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