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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3049438 times)
cognoscente
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September 20, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
 #10081

Gee, Wally.... Maybe we can find 5 volts somewhere on the PC power supply that we've already paid for.
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FeedbackLoop
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September 20, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2013, 05:07:25 PM by FeedbackLoop
 #10082

For bitbet, does it count if shipped starts at the end of September or does it have to be delivered to your door? Also, hosting.

I think it's possible that KNC will start shipping at the end of September, thus the actual rigs arriving early October.

Well, for my part I will post pics of my jupiter hashing at a (temporary) private place the same day they start shipping (Day 1 pickup) if they deliver in September (unless they deliver like at midnight the 30th...). So you only need 4 more. I think Orama is also going for a pick up from what I understood from glancing at this (long) thread? And some other guy? We could try to organise something.

 

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September 20, 2013, 04:24:51 PM
 #10083


So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc?  Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply?  I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.

You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages?

Seriously?

The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector.  About your tone....

I wasn't trying to be rude, I just look at it differently. My take is to simplify things, they would have an onboard power source for the BB.

Another valid engineering perspective would be 'to make it less expensively, let's not have an onboard power source for the BB.'


The cost of a DC:DC regulator, especially by the reel, is on the order of pennies, or fractions of a penny depending on what you get. They already said the only power connections to be made will be PCIE. They're going with a KIS method for this. Plugging up an extra power cord adds complexity and time, especially for rig-testing. I'd wager they're willing to spend the .005 cents on the PCB components for onboard power.

It's obvious you have never worked on a design for mass production.  Eliminating a DC-DC regulator and associated circuitry would typically be considered a massive win for manufacturing.

No I haven't worked an electronics assembly line, nor have I managed an electronics-production line, nor have I done large scale electronics design. I have overseen mass distribution though. I have designed circuitry. These guys make it a business to do the same, and from what hints they've dropped, they appear to have gone the route I suspect.

Again as mentioned previously, their profit margin is well over 50%, likely 70% for these units. They're not too worried about their cost. They already have the boards, and are tested. This eliminates production time as a factor for delivery. They stated the only power connections would be PCIE. This hints there will be on board regulation.

So whether I've worked or designed as you propose is moot, especially if my understanding of their hints is correct.

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September 20, 2013, 04:29:55 PM
 #10084

No I haven't worked an electronics assembly line, nor have I managed an electronics-production line, nor have I done large scale electronics design. I have overseen mass distribution though. I have designed circuitry. These guys make it a business to do the same, and from what hints they've dropped, they appear to have gone the route I suspect.

Again as mentioned previously, their profit margin is well over 50%, likely 70% for these units. They're not too worried about their cost. They already have the boards, and are tested. This eliminates production time as a factor for delivery. They stated the only power connections would be PCIE. This hints there will be on board regulation.

So whether I've worked or designed as you propose is moot, especially if my understanding of their hints is correct.

You said:


So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc?  Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply?  I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.

You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages?

Seriously?


I'm just pointing out that there are two equally valid engineering perspectives here, and KNC could go either way - but your tone in the above quote suggests that there is not.

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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 04:32:58 PM
 #10085

No I haven't worked an electronics assembly line, nor have I managed an electronics-production line, nor have I done large scale electronics design. I have overseen mass distribution though. I have designed circuitry. These guys make it a business to do the same, and from what hints they've dropped, they appear to have gone the route I suspect.

Again as mentioned previously, their profit margin is well over 50%, likely 70% for these units. They're not too worried about their cost. They already have the boards, and are tested. This eliminates production time as a factor for delivery. They stated the only power connections would be PCIE. This hints there will be on board regulation.

So whether I've worked or designed as you propose is moot, especially if my understanding of their hints is correct.

You said:


So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc?  Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply?  I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.

You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages?

Seriously?


I'm just pointing out that there are two equally valid engineering perspectives here, and KNC could go either way - but your tone in the above quote suggests that there is not.


The possibility can certainly go either way -- the probability is that they likely have an on board regulator. Perhaps that helps explain my text-based tone better.

If I am wrong, I will certainly tip my hat your way.

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September 20, 2013, 04:41:51 PM
 #10086

No I haven't worked an electronics assembly line, nor have I managed an electronics-production line, nor have I done large scale electronics design. I have overseen mass distribution though. I have designed circuitry. These guys make it a business to do the same, and from what hints they've dropped, they appear to have gone the route I suspect.

Again as mentioned previously, their profit margin is well over 50%, likely 70% for these units. They're not too worried about their cost. They already have the boards, and are tested. This eliminates production time as a factor for delivery. They stated the only power connections would be PCIE. This hints there will be on board regulation.

So whether I've worked or designed as you propose is moot, especially if my understanding of their hints is correct.

You said:


So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc?  Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply?  I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.

You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages?

Seriously?


I'm just pointing out that there are two equally valid engineering perspectives here, and KNC could go either way - but your tone in the above quote suggests that there is not.


The possibility can certainly go either way -- the probability is that they likely have an on board regulator. Perhaps that helps explain my text-based tone better.

If I am wrong, I will certainly tip my hat your way.

It's not clear to me what you are basing your 'probability' estimate on.  I can't claim to know what KNC will do, but my experience suggests that they would actually be MUCH more likely to go for less cost/complexity vs. adding a 'might be nice' feature.

In either case, you were not justified in addressing Soy's post as if it was ridiculous.  It wasn't. And that was why I replied.

Libertarians:  Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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September 20, 2013, 04:47:03 PM
 #10087


It's not clear to me what you are basing your 'probability' estimate on.  I can't claim to know what KNC will do, but my experience suggests that they would actually be MUCH more likely to go for less cost/complexity vs. adding a 'might be nice' feature.

In either case, you were not justified in addressing Soy's post as if it was ridiculous.  It wasn't. And that was why I replied.


I'm basing my probability on what KNC has said:

* PCIE will be the only power connection (12vdc)
* They will be keeping connections to a minimum for simplicity

I addressed Soy that way likely because it seemed like he was concerned they forgot about powering the BB at all. That's the angle I took from it. If I misread it, then that's just egg on my shoe I suppose.

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September 20, 2013, 04:58:04 PM
 #10088

Well, for my part I will post pics of my jupiter hashing at a private place the same day they start shipping (Day 1 pickup) if they deliver in September (unless they deliver like at midnight the 30th...). So you only need 4 more. I think Orama is also going for a pick up from what I understood from glancing at this (long) thread? And some other guy? We could try to organise something.

 



Definitely. I'm hosting so I could ask them for email verification or something? Or a screenshot of it hashing and whatnot
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September 20, 2013, 04:59:29 PM
 #10089

So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc?  Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply?  I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
The pci connections are 6 pin, not 8


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September 20, 2013, 05:04:44 PM
 #10090

The shortcut that they took is that they are trusting the DESIGN.  They didn't waste a couple of months doing a 'test batch' to verify the design.  They never hinted that they were taking any other shortcuts in assembly.  NONE.  Some of us need to check our medication.
never hinted?... "Time to market is everything in this business after all. We have also broken a few speed records in this business to bring a design to market in the fastest time possible."


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cognoscente
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September 20, 2013, 05:27:00 PM
 #10091

The shortcut that they took is that they are trusting the DESIGN.  They didn't waste a couple of months doing a 'test batch' to verify the design.  They never hinted that they were taking any other shortcuts in assembly.  NONE.  Some of us need to check our medication.
never hinted?... "Time to market is everything in this business after all. We have also broken a few speed records in this business to bring a design to market in the fastest time possible."
I don't read that as a hint that they are taking shortcuts. 
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September 20, 2013, 05:38:24 PM
 #10092

I know it's probably too early to tell, but it seems like increase in hashrate since the last difficulty jump has tapered off a little bit.  Anyone else notice that?  
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September 20, 2013, 05:43:31 PM
 #10093

I know it's probably too early to tell, but it seems like increase in hashrate since the last difficulty jump has tapered off a little bit.  Anyone else notice that?  

Janitor probably ran over a cat5 cable somewhere.

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September 20, 2013, 05:56:08 PM
 #10094

I know it's probably too early to tell, but it seems like increase in hashrate since the last difficulty jump has tapered off a little bit.  Anyone else notice that?  

No. Next projected diff increase is +20% already. Bernanke must also be in charge of the hashrate.  

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September 20, 2013, 06:01:34 PM
 #10095

The growth seems to be accelerating still, if anything:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

A solid 2.5% per day, which is +125% per month.

Perhaps the growth of the growth has tapered off a little but thats a bit meta to me and statistical noise at this point
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September 20, 2013, 06:12:54 PM
 #10096

The shortcut that they took is that they are trusting the DESIGN.  They didn't waste a couple of months doing a 'test batch' to verify the design.  They never hinted that they were taking any other shortcuts in assembly.  NONE.  Some of us need to check our medication.
never hinted?... "Time to market is everything in this business after all. We have also broken a few speed records in this business to bring a design to market in the fastest time possible."
I don't read that as a hint that they are taking shortcuts.  
probably a reading-comprehension thing

here's more...
from openday..."
Marcus: Fabrication and all that, that is done by the fab, so they handle that, that's their business. We provide them with our jailcode, we've written our jailcode in a way that makes the back end design faster, and the fab time faster. There's multiple ways you can do that...if you know what you're doing.

3) Are you doing pre-package wafer test?

Marcus: No.

4) Are you doing post-packaging testing on a real production tester (Teradyne or similar)?

Marcus: No. We...and...and...I..I..I need to say a little bit about why; ah because we will have a self built in test that will automaically test...the...because the chips are so large, so that we can compensate for any losses in the Bitcoin engines. If there are any failing ones then we can compensate for that.
Me: Physically large?

Marcus: The...the die size of the...the?

Me: Yeah

Marcus: The die size will be...very large.

Me: But does that...ummm...

Marcus: That, that means that some of the parts in the ASIC might work and some will not, but we can compensate for that.

Another member: We can compensate for that."



not a hint at all, lol





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creativex
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September 20, 2013, 06:16:33 PM
 #10097

I know it's probably too early to tell, but it seems like increase in hashrate since the last difficulty jump has tapered off a little bit.  Anyone else notice that?

Not much shipping in quantity right this second. BFL's unpredictable trickle, whatever remains of bitfury's August deliveries, plus whatever happens with Avalon chips that actually found their way to buyers. This is likely just a calm before the storm of knc deliveries + bitfury products sold for September/October delivery(chips + rigs).  

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September 20, 2013, 06:21:46 PM
 #10098

The growth seems to be accelerating still, if anything:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

A solid 2.5% per day, which is +125% per month.

Perhaps the growth of the growth has tapered off a little but thats a bit meta to me and statistical noise at this point

Yes it is accelerating still, however the growth of the growth seems to have tapered off.  Maybe it's just me hoping and wishing too much.
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September 20, 2013, 06:51:46 PM
 #10099

The growth seems to be accelerating still, if anything:

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

A solid 2.5% per day, which is +125% per month.

Perhaps the growth of the growth has tapered off a little but thats a bit meta to me and statistical noise at this point

Yes it is accelerating still, however the growth of the growth seems to have tapered off.  Maybe it's just me hoping and wishing too much.

Anything is an acceleration this is still very much the GPU transition. There was supposed to be a 130nm, and 65nm stage, but we all know how that went and who received the lion's share of that (specific companies themselves, delay tactics, lies, etc.). This is about to be the peoples' real ASIC revolution. Viva!

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September 20, 2013, 07:00:16 PM
 #10100

Yes it is accelerating still, however the growth of the growth seems to have tapered off.  Maybe it's just me hoping and wishing too much.

Im sure it would  be a huge relief for miners to learn that it would appear growth of the network may stabilize resulting in an exponential growth some point above  +125%  per month, but below infinity. Because thats all that tapering of the growth of the growth tells you.

Not that you can conclude anything of that sort from a short term highly variable chart in a time that predates all the important asic shipments.
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