Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Neo_Coin]

[1680331683]

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[1680331683]

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[1680331683]

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[1680331683]

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[realr0ach]

Swarthy Hebrews of questionable fragrance rapidly glanced at the moving charts; their rat-like appendages grasped at the air as if looking for something to steal.  Such creatures of ill-repute were undeniably interested in only one thing, the sound of the clanging of shekels in their demonic coffers.

[d_eddie]

For those playing along at home, you'll no doubt note that (should my understanding be correct), BW consumption scales at O(n^2).
I'm sure it will improve when the routing invention breakthrough occurs.

Of course - the clueless developers! D'oh, what an unforgivable oversight! The system they implemented is doomed. They chose the SAN (Spam All Network) algorithm for both route discovery and node state update. They slept during their networking lessons, or was it calculus? So they failed to notice that bandwidth grows quadratically with the number of nodes. This way, it's almost as bad as if one increased the block size. But who would ever think of that?

Hyperbole duly noted. Be that as it may, do you have any evidence that suggests that my understanding is incorrect?

Honestly, I don't know which solution has eventually been adopted in this first version of the LN, but already in 2016 the proposed method was significantly better than the naive SAN technique you hint at.

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@emabfuri/bitfury-bitcoin-routing-lightning-network-solution

Here's a relevant excerpt.

Using a fog of war like design, the collected information by the routing algorithm “includes channels within a low hop-distance and paths to randomly selected nodes further away… As a result, a node will have a well-illuminated map of its local neighborhood within the network, with random patches of visibility further away enabled by the selection of beacon nodes.”

So, it's not an initially low TTL that gets conservatively increased as I had wildly imagined, but not so far off either: closer nodes are exhaustively enumerated, while a small set of distant nodes is selected pseudorandomly.

There is a more detailed pdf paper floating around. If you study it, a summary will be well received. I don't have the time or energy right now. If I get either or both, I'd rather actually test how LN works for me, with my own node.

http://bitfury.com/content/5-white-papers-research/whitepaper_flare_an_approach_to_routing_in_lightning_network_7_7_2016.pdf

Inb4 Fyookball - not to mean you would stoop that low, but just in case ;-)
https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800
It's mostly BS with truth mixed in  - the most dangerous form of BS.

[d_eddie]

I'll try the homespun solution, install docker and all.

I'd be interested in your Internet bandwidth consumption, should you be wiling to share.

I will post some data, but don't hold your breath. I'll need some free time to install the thing - starting with Docker - and some more to figure out how to measure LN's bandwitdh tax unbundled from bitcoind's base requirements. Got any suggestions?

I dunno.... filter a wireshark dump of all port 8333 traffic? Wild speculation. I don't know how LN comms are routed within the host networking layer.

I was hoping not to have to install special instrumentation like wireshark. Well, when I get to that I'll do what I have to.
BTW, 8333 is for bitcoind. LN uses a different port (can't recall right now).

[realr0ach]

Gotta love this guy's comment on LN:

wont central parties providing liquidity ( in return for a small fee) be able to solve this hopping problem , ie. say 1 million people open channel to A, and A opens channels to 1000 other

In other words....an exact replica of the banks that already exist? LOL.

[OWZ1337]

For those playing along at home, you'll no doubt note that (should my understanding be correct), BW consumption scales at O(n^2).
I'm sure it will improve when the routing invention breakthrough occurs.

Of course - the clueless developers! D'oh, what an unforgivable oversight! The system they implemented is doomed. They chose the SAN (Spam All Network) algorithm for both route discovery and node state update. They slept during their networking lessons, or was it calculus? So they failed to notice that bandwidth grows quadratically with the number of nodes. This way, it's almost as bad as if one increased the block size. But who would ever think of that?

Hyperbole duly noted. Be that as it may, do you have any evidence that suggests that my understanding is incorrect?

Honestly, I don't know which solution has eventually been adopted in this first version of the LN, but already in 2016 the proposed method was significantly better than the naive SAN technique you hint at.

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@emabfuri/bitfury-bitcoin-routing-lightning-network-solution

Here's a relevant excerpt.

Using a fog of war like design, the collected information by the routing algorithm “includes channels within a low hop-distance and paths to randomly selected nodes further away… As a result, a node will have a well-illuminated map of its local neighborhood within the network, with random patches of visibility further away enabled by the selection of beacon nodes.”

So, it's not an initially low TTL that gets conservatively increased as I had wildly imagined, but not so far off either: closer nodes are exhaustively enumerated, while a small set of distant nodes is selected pseudorandomly.

There is a more detailed pdf paper floating around. If you study it, a summary will be well received. I don't have the time or energy right now. If I get either or both, I'd rather actually test how LN works for me, with my own node.

http://bitfury.com/content/5-white-papers-research/whitepaper_flare_an_approach_to_routing_in_lightning_network_7_7_2016.pdf

Inb4 Fyookball - not to mean you would stoop that low, but just in case ;-)
https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800
It's mostly BS with truth mixed in  - the most dangerous form of BS.

conclusion = bigger blocks are life!!    where did you find this guy? lol  

[LFC_Bitcoin]

One of those is a lie

I'm only paranoid because everyone is trying to steal my cocaine.

Oh I hit that shit at least once a week these days, last time was 5g between me & my gf on Sunday

I’ve dumped loads of free BCH for coke over the last few months

[Torque]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

[OWZ1337]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

Australian authorities don't buy his story , does anyone ?
lol Vitalik was so funny when he smacked down Gavin when that fool was saying Wright was satoshi!! haha ===>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qLI3VIHuKU

[serveria.com]

Some teeny tiny movement up or?

[mindrust]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

Even Roger doesn't confirm his identity as satoshi if you ask Roger directly. He just changes the subject and starts to talk about a completely irrelevant topic.

They are running a major worldwide scam and everybody knows it, yet some scum people support them anyway.

[suspiciously square]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

Even Roger doesn't confirm his identity as satoshi if you ask Roger directly. He just changes the subject and starts to talk about a completely irrelevant topic.

They are running a major worlwide scam and everybody knows it, yet some scum people support them anyway.

Nobody buys his story. All he had to do was sign a message and make it public, yet he refused.

[OWZ1337]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

Even Roger doesn't confirm his identity as satoshi if you ask Roger directly. He just changes the subject and starts to talk about a completely irrelevant topic.

They are running a major worlwide scam and everybody knows it, yet some scum people support them anyway.

bitcointalk needs to lock/ban the bitcoincash thread ~ it only serves to confuse people. The test is over; that is not bitcoin let's gather signatures to lock the BCH thread thank you for you support!

[pops87]

If there was ever any doubt that CSW is Fake Satoshi, a con man, and a liar:

https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/955425740820008960

Just look at the way he responds in discourse. The real Satoshi never ever responded to people in this manner, with snide derision and trying to one up people. NEVER. That guy is a total fraud.

I would but I'm blocked 

[d_eddie]

11k broken. First sign of life or a passing illusion?

[Lopumbo]

11k broken. First sign of life or a passing illusion?

BTC dips (again) below 10k$...10min later...100M$ Tether printed...price rices unnaturally by ~10% within minutes...can't explain that

[Enjel]

11k broken. First sign of life or a passing illusion?

BTC dips (again) below 10k$...10min later...100M$ Tether printed...price rices unnaturally by ~10% within minutes...can't explain that

Tether isn't a problem. All dollar bills printed have nothing backing them. There doesn't exist a single bank that could pay fiat to their customers if they all demanded it at once.

The lack of reserves is hardly a concern, since prices are dropping due to wall street manipulators trying to make their shorts work as best as they can.

[Torque]

11k broken. First sign of life or a passing illusion?

I'm LOLing hard right now.

Yesterday Tone Vays told all his followers that 11k was 100% clear resistance and that he was bearish. They all probably shorted because of it and got rekt.

This is why TA doesn't work in Bitcoin.

Although truthfully, we need to pass 11.5k and then 12.5k with rising buy volume to break the downtrend. Otherwise likely more down.

[CistaCista]

Ok I sold some. My sacrifice to the sharks. Price will go up now. I have excellent record for selling the bottom.

Thanks for the 12% rise!

[Lopumbo]

yep, when it goes up...it's natural...when it goes down its manipulation and FUD