Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[realr0ach]

there is no difference between natural and coded scarcity

No difference in real world scarcity and artificial scarcity?  Okay, by your own statement there's no difference between bitcoin and any altcoin - both are "coded scarcity" - so supply is then infinite because there's no overhead to create them and thus no Schelling point.

This is the stupid world of shitcoiners where they just make up random nonsense to try to rationalize using shitcoins over metals.  Then every piece of propaganda they create to try and rationalize the use of digital shitcoins only rationalizes the use of fiat and an infinite number of altcoins too.  So they then backtrack and try to apply nonsensical double standards to attempt to not promote altcoins or fiats with their horrid, illogical arguments.

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[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

O.k. Technically, you are correct, yet we are not talking about technical correctness, we are talking about real world application.

Accordingly, try to change the 21 million bitcoin versus trying to figure out the extent to which the gold supply is scarce or not manipulated by paper inflation?  Which one is more scarce in real application and what the fuck problem has bitcoin attempted to solve?  

With bitcoin, we are talking practical application and a programmed and consensual scarcity, not some pie in the sky theory about what could or might happen in some hypothetical (not likely to happen scenario).  And, that is part of the reason why, currently, bitcoin has the strongest and hardest money that has ever been created  (until proven otherwise).

You've stated that Bitcoin's scarcity is not artificial which is strictly false.

Bitcoin's scarcity is artificial, period. No technicalities, no real world application, no anything. It is de facto and unequivocally artificial.

I'd like to ask you to stop degenerating our language.

It's bad enough that liberalism is functionally equivalent to fascism these days and that a progressive is acting in regressive ways. If terms are defined in a dictionary stick to the definition. Otherwise all hell breaks lose and fascists start thinking they're fighting for the greater good.


As far as the scarcity argument goes, it doesn't even exist. One is limited in supply, the other is not.

[realr0ach]

Scarcity vs artificial scarcity be damned, JayJuanGee is not even correct that bitcoin has scarcity in the first place.  It's technically no real difference from the federal reserve.  They state a 2% inflation rate targeting, but political forces can obviously push it higher or lower.  Bitcoin's inflation target is...a predefined slope, but the exact same political powers can change that just like the fed.  

Transaction validators in shitcoins are always designed to centralize because it's not possible to create a decentralized digital currency, so they have NO NASH EQUILIBRIUM and are subject to the exact same political power vacuum of central banks with govts just exerting force over the 1-10 transaction validators (ASIC warehouses and pools) to apply AML/KYC, inflation, and whatever else.  Anyone who's not an idiot in the field of shitcoins knows that POW chains are far less secure the lower the fixed block reward subsidy becomes and that they might not even be viable at all without inflation.  

If it doesn't work out because of lack of subsidy, before bitcoin dies off completely, they would obviously either add inflation or fork to proof of stake - a bogus, closed entropy system that doesn't even pretend to be decentralized like how bitcoin pretends designed to centralize PoW is.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Scarcity vs artificial scarcity be damned, JayJuanGee is not even correct that bitcoin has scarcity in the first place.  It's technically no real difference from the federal reserve.  They state a 2% inflation rate targeting, but political forces can obviously push it higher or lower.  Bitcoin's inflation target is...a predefined slope, but the exact same political powers can change that just like the fed.  

Transaction validators in shitcoins are always designed to centralize because it's not possible to create a decentralized digital currency, so they have NO NASH EQUILIBRIUM and are subject to the exact same political power vacuum of central banks with govts just exerting force over the 1-10 megaminer warehouses to apply AML/KYC, inflation, and whatever else.  Anyone who's not an idiot in the field of shitcoins knows that POW chains are far less secure the lower the fixed block reward subsidy becomes and that they might not even be viable at all without inflation.  

If it doesn't work out because of lack of subsidy, before bitcoin dies off completely, they would obviously either add inflation or fork to proof of stake - a bogus, closed entropy system that doesn't even pretend to be decentralized like how bitcoin pretends designed to centralize PoW is.

Interesting that you ignored my earlier response and then proceeded to make the same false claims regarding Bitcoin's scarcity all over again. It is very different from the federal reserve.

[realr0ach]

It is very different from the federal reserve.

It's actually worse.  The fact transaction validators are always designed to centralize because it's not actually possible to create a decentralize digital currency in the first place means they both suffer from the exact same political power vacuum.  Yet, fiat bills at least provide some minor form of fungibility and permisionless behavior, while bitcoin provides you with none since there's no fungibility at all and you need to ask permission to one of the 1-10 transaction validators to do anything and...a permanent govt surveillance grid that abolishes the 5th amendment.

Your arguments are entirely based around the OPENING INNINGS of the game, not it's real endgame form.  That and the perspective of a greedy goyim attempting to suck out some type of profit from a possible pump and dump.  If you look at it from a perspective of playing god where pump and dump scamming profit is meaningless to you and all you care about is the feasibility of the system, fungibility and permisionless behavior, and prohibiting the construction of a dystopian police state, then of course both fiats and digital shitcoins are complete garbage compared to physical metals.

[JayJuanGee]

there is no difference between natural and coded scarcity

No difference in real world scarcity and artificial scarcity?  Okay, by your own statement there's no difference between bitcoin and any altcoin - both are "coded scarcity" - so supply is then infinite because there's no overhead to create them and thus no Schelling point.

You are the only one attempting to make up shit and to put words in the mouths of other posters in order to make your own points, including conflating bitcoin and other shitcoins in order to attempt to act like any other coin can inflate bitcoin's supply, and it cannot.  Bitcoin established the network and ONLY it's supply counts.. All of those other bullshit coins are merely imitations and snake oil, so they don't count. .. Of course, you know that, but you just want to pump out bullshit misinformation.

This is the stupid world of shitcoiners where they just make up random nonsense to try to rationalize using shitcoins over metals.  

Yes.  Exactly.  You are the one trying to make up random bullshit.

Then every piece of propaganda they create to try and rationalize the use of digital shitcoins only rationalizes the use of fiat and an infinite number of altcoins too.  So they then backtrack and try to apply nonsensical double standards to attempt to not promote altcoins or fiats with their horrid, illogical arguments.

You are the only one making horrid, illogical arguments.... or at least attempting to make them, but they are so baloney, you are not too successful in these here parts.

[JayJuanGee]

O.k. Technically, you are correct, yet we are not talking about technical correctness, we are talking about real world application.

Accordingly, try to change the 21 million bitcoin versus trying to figure out the extent to which the gold supply is scarce or not manipulated by paper inflation?  Which one is more scarce in real application and what the fuck problem has bitcoin attempted to solve?  

With bitcoin, we are talking practical application and a programmed and consensual scarcity, not some pie in the sky theory about what could or might happen in some hypothetical (not likely to happen scenario).  And, that is part of the reason why, currently, bitcoin has the strongest and hardest money that has ever been created  (until proven otherwise).

You've stated that Bitcoin's scarcity is not artificial which is strictly false.

Who gives a ratt's ass about your technical points.  It doesn't matter to the points being made.

Bitcoin's scarcity is artificial, period. No technicalities, no real world application, no anything. It is de facto and unequivocally artificial.

I'd like to ask you to stop degenerating our language.

You can ask me all that you like.  You ar the one confusing the topic, with bullshit technicals that don't matter to the points bing made.

It's bad enough that liberalism is functionally equivalent to fascism these days and that a progressive is acting in regressive ways. If terms are defined in a dictionary stick to the definition. Otherwise all hell breaks lose and fascists start thinking they're fighting for the greater good.

NO there is no problem.  You are making a problem out of nothing.

As far as the scarcity argument goes, it doesn't even exist. One is limited in supply, the other is not.

One of the significant reasons that bitcoin is valuable remains its scarcity, and no one gives a ratt's ass if it could technically be changed through consensus, because it is not going to happen, at least not in the foreseeable future, not in any practical way, and such a change that is theoretically possible is not relevant because it is not going to happen, and if it does happen, then we could address such point at that time.  If you believe bitcoin's supply is going to change at any time in the near future, then you are surely in some whimsical thinking that no one else is planning around such scenario.. but yet you still want to talk about it?  Get a a grip, BTCMILLIONAIRE.

[JayJuanGee]

Scarcity vs artificial scarcity be damned, JayJuanGee is not even correct that bitcoin has scarcity in the first place.  It's technically no real difference from the federal reserve.  They state a 2% inflation rate targeting, but political forces can obviously push it higher or lower.  Bitcoin's inflation target is...a predefined slope, but the exact same political powers can change that just like the fed.  

Transaction validators in shitcoins are always designed to centralize because it's not possible to create a decentralized digital currency, so they have NO NASH EQUILIBRIUM and are subject to the exact same political power vacuum of central banks with govts just exerting force over the 1-10 transaction validators (ASIC warehouses and pools) to apply AML/KYC, inflation, and whatever else.  Anyone who's not an idiot in the field of shitcoins knows that POW chains are far less secure the lower the fixed block reward subsidy becomes and that they might not even be viable at all without inflation.  

If it doesn't work out because of lack of subsidy, before bitcoin dies off completely, they would obviously either add inflation or fork to proof of stake - a bogus, closed entropy system that doesn't even pretend to be decentralized like how bitcoin pretends designed to centralize PoW is.

Who cares? I am not going to concede that bitcoin is going to change, but for now, there is a schedule that continues to mine rewards until the year 2140.  At that point, or at sometime before that, maybe 2100-ish, there could be  a decision to change the supply and to cause an inflation. but is your dead body going to care about whatever monetary changes are made - presumably through some kind of meaningful consensus, which also might be hard to achieve? 

[realr0ach]

JayJuanGee doesn't seem to comprehend that everything that occurs inside computers is essentially a different, artificially constructed, parallel universe to ours where nothing that happens inside it actually matters because you do not inhabit it.  There are no resources inside computers.  There is no scarcity inside computers with any meaningful relationship to your world.  The bonds between the two are fake, and people can be tricked into yielding to that artificial reality temporarily, but not sustainably on any real timeline.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

O.k. Technically, you are correct, yet we are not talking about technical correctness, we are talking about real world application.

Accordingly, try to change the 21 million bitcoin versus trying to figure out the extent to which the gold supply is scarce or not manipulated by paper inflation?  Which one is more scarce in real application and what the fuck problem has bitcoin attempted to solve?  

With bitcoin, we are talking practical application and a programmed and consensual scarcity, not some pie in the sky theory about what could or might happen in some hypothetical (not likely to happen scenario).  And, that is part of the reason why, currently, bitcoin has the strongest and hardest money that has ever been created  (until proven otherwise).

You've stated that Bitcoin's scarcity is not artificial which is strictly false.

Who gives a ratt's ass about your technical points.  It doesn't matter to the points being made.

Bitcoin's scarcity is artificial, period. No technicalities, no real world application, no anything. It is de facto and unequivocally artificial.

I'd like to ask you to stop degenerating our language.

You can ask me all that you like.  You ar the one confusing the topic, with bullshit technicals that don't matter to the points bing made.

It's bad enough that liberalism is functionally equivalent to fascism these days and that a progressive is acting in regressive ways. If terms are defined in a dictionary stick to the definition. Otherwise all hell breaks lose and fascists start thinking they're fighting for the greater good.

NO there is no problem.  You are making a problem out of nothing.

This isn't technical. Are you literally fucking retarded or do you genuinely think that you can use random words and pretend that they mean whatever you want them to?

As far as the scarcity argument goes, it doesn't even exist. One is limited in supply, the other is not.

One of the significant reasons that bitcoin is valuable remains its scarcity, and no one gives a ratt's ass if it could technically be changed through consensus, because it is not going to happen, at least not in the foreseeable future, not in any practical way, and such a change that is theoretically possible is not relevant because it is not going to happen, and if it does happen, then we could address such point at that time.  If you believe bitcoin's supply is going to change at any time in the near future, then you are surely in some whimsical thinking that no one else is planning around such scenario.. but yet you still want to talk about it?  Get a a grip, BTCMILLIONAIRE.

Learn to read you illiterate fucking moron.

"One is limited in supply (BITCOIN), the other is not (GOLD).

You clearly have no comprehension of the English language. You just chain words arbitrarily with little to no content. No wonder you manage to make so much noise without saying anything.

[Lambie Slayer]

https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/1121868559330598912

I find the timing suspicious. I wouldnt be surprised if TDAmeritrade influenced TPTB to go after Bitfinex to help free up some new customers for their big launch. Long term it will be great to get rid of Bitfinex, but short term, lets be real, this is gonna suck for price for the next few weeks or month.

Gonna bump us out of the "BTC*** BTC***"?

JJG, good to see you back and not implicated in a local bitcoins sting. A lot of overreach by authorities lately. Infidels are fighting hard for their money printing masters.

To your question, no sir, not imho. I just expect it to give us a similar 2015 style correction with a new low over 3100, hopefully 4kish. I think we are in the fractal one of our esteemed WO TA experts Hairy has often posted but just with a distortion to the upside from moneyprinting headwinds.   See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg50776067#msg50776067 for my full theory.

If we break 3100 then I guess I will have to start posting "Bear Market all is fucked" countdowns  

but till then.....

133 days into new BTCaby BTCull Market and all is well

also I forgot to post this week the 73 percent complete with halvening cycle milestone. The next 27 will fly by.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

It is very different from the federal reserve.

It's actually worse.  The fact transaction validators are always designed to centralize because it's not actually possible to create a decentralize digital currency in the first place means they both suffer from the exact same political power vacuum.  Yet, fiat bills at least provide some minor form of fungibility and permisionless behavior, while bitcoin provides you with none since there's no fungibility at all and you need to ask permission to one of the 1-10 transaction validators to do anything and...a permanent govt surveillance grid that abolishes the 5th amendment.

Your arguments are entirely based around the OPENING INNINGS of the game, not it's real endgame form.  That and the perspective of a greedy goyim attempting to suck out some type of profit from a possible pump and dump.  If you look at it from a perspective of playing god where pump and dump scamming profit is meaningless to you and all you care about is the feasibility of the system, fungibility and permisionless behavior, and prohibiting the construction of a dystopian police state, then of course both fiats and digital shitcoins are complete garbage compared to physical metals.

No, they are not.  I've pretty much mapped out the future in my chain of arguments. The gap is merely quantitative, not qualitative.

[realr0ach]

It is very different from the federal reserve.

It's actually worse.  The fact transaction validators are always designed to centralize because it's not actually possible to create a decentralize digital currency in the first place means they both suffer from the exact same political power vacuum.  Yet, fiat bills at least provide some minor form of fungibility and permisionless behavior, while bitcoin provides you with none since there's no fungibility at all and you need to ask permission to one of the 1-10 transaction validators to do anything and...a permanent govt surveillance grid that abolishes the 5th amendment.

Your arguments are entirely based around the OPENING INNINGS of the game, not it's real endgame form.  That and the perspective of a greedy goyim attempting to suck out some type of profit from a possible pump and dump.  If you look at it from a perspective of playing god where pump and dump scamming profit is meaningless to you and all you care about is the feasibility of the system, fungibility and permisionless behavior, and prohibiting the construction of a dystopian police state, then of course both fiats and digital shitcoins are complete garbage compared to physical metals.

No, they are not.  I've pretty much mapped out the future in my chain of arguments. The gap is merely quantitative, not qualitative.

How are you unable to process in your brain that a non-fungible currency where transaction validators are designed to centralize is a full-blown police state by default?

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]
Gonna bump us out of the "BTC*** BTC***"?

JJG, good to see you back and not implicated in a local bitcoins sting. A lot of overreach by authorities lately. Infidels are fighting hard for their money printing masters.

To your question, no sir, not imho. I just expect it to give us a similar 2015 style correction with a new low over 3100, hopefully 4kish. I think we are in the fractal one of our esteemed WO TA experts Hairy has often posted but just with a distortion to the upside from moneyprinting headwinds.   See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg50776067#msg50776067 for my full theory.

If we break 3100 then I guess I will have to start posting "Bear Market all is fucked" countdowns  

but till then.....

133 days into new BTCaby BTCull Market and all is well

also I forgot to post this week the 73 percent complete with halvening cycle milestone. The next 27 will fly by.

Ok. so largely, we agree, at least in regards to seeing how this $4,200 to $5,200 price range plays out, so retesting support in the $4,200 area is feasible in the coming weeks, and the further down you go, the more difficult that it will be to reach.  $3,122 is a quite a ways into the distance, and I am starting to lean towards the possibility that it has a less than 50% chance of being challenged again in this cycle.... so more and more, the longer we don't get any meaningful corrections or testing of various support lines, the more likely we are going to be able to assert that the bottom is in... meaning that $3,122 is not going to be retested.  Surely, there must be a lot of buy support between $3,700 and $4,200, too, so just breaking below $4,200 would be far from a done deal regarding any proposed testing of the current $3,122 bottom.

Edit:  Regarding my local bitcoin's transactions, historically, I had been purposefully sticking to pretty low numbers on the transaction sizes, even though frequently people would try to get me to transact more than my advertisement limits.  I generally used those buy/sell limits as filters to try to appeal to smaller beginner type of traders rather than the ones striving to engage in BIG trades, which was not my thing.  I did not want to make money like that.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

This isn't technical. Are you literally fucking retarded or do you genuinely think that you can use random words and pretend that they mean whatever you want them to?

[edited out]

Learn to read you illiterate fucking moron.

"One is limited in supply (BITCOIN), the other is not (GOLD).

You clearly have no comprehension of the English language. You just chain words arbitrarily with little to no content. No wonder you manage to make so much noise without saying anything.

Speak for yourself, and your own level of incoherence in terms of both words and how you string them together to formulate nonsensical irrelevancies.        

[VB1001]

snip

I am feeling like wearing a hat lately. Where do I apply/sign?

The manufacturer is > xhomerx10 and its promoter is > micgoossens  

Publish an image that you like for your hat and they will do the rest.


Good Morning WO,s

In effect, there is no order in the image of the hats, to index the hats by date I would need the data of their creation and I do not have this data, personally I will add the username under each hat with the registration date in Bitcointalk.

I wanted to show you how nice it is to see in an organized image all the WO,s hats.

This is an idea I had in mind for quite some time and I wanted to do it just for myself.

But seeing the result, I thought maybe you would like to see it and have the file.

I think that when I have finished it, I will find a way to upload it without problems (opsec), so that they have the file available and can modify, name, organize and update their own graphics with their hats.

If you do not see your hat on the table, quote a publication and I will include it.

I will also look at the old pages of the thread, I will find the missing hats.

(I do not rule out printing it in A3 or A2 when it is finished, all the coloring that is shown in real size is impressive, like a small work of art.)

xhomerx10 HATS:
Circulating Supply> 128
Max Supply> ?

[Lambie Slayer]

[edited out]
Gonna bump us out of the "BTC*** BTC***"?

JJG, good to see you back and not implicated in a local bitcoins sting. A lot of overreach by authorities lately. Infidels are fighting hard for their money printing masters.

To your question, no sir, not imho. I just expect it to give us a similar 2015 style correction with a new low over 3100, hopefully 4kish. I think we are in the fractal one of our esteemed WO TA experts Hairy has often posted but just with a distortion to the upside from moneyprinting headwinds.   See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg50776067#msg50776067 for my full theory.

If we break 3100 then I guess I will have to start posting "Bear Market all is fucked" countdowns  

but till then.....

133 days into new BTCaby BTCull Market and all is well

also I forgot to post this week the 73 percent complete with halvening cycle milestone. The next 27 will fly by.

Ok. so largely, we agree, at least in regards to seeing how this $4,200 to $5,200 price range plays out, so retesting support in the $4,200 area is feasible in the coming weeks, and the further down you go, the more difficult that it will be to reach.  $3,122 is a quite a ways into the distance, and I am starting to lean towards the possibility that it has a less than 50% chance of being challenged again in this cycle.... so more and more, the longer we don't get any meaningful corrections or testing of various support lines, the more likely we are going to be able to assert that the bottom is in... meaning that $3,122 is not going to be retested.  Surely, there must be a lot of buy support between $3,700 and $4,200, too, so just breaking below $4,200 would be far from a done deal regarding any proposed testing of the current $3,122 bottom.

Yes there must be tons and tons of money ready and praying for sub 4k prices to accumulate more coins so it would take some serious next level FUD to take us below 3100 im guessing.

If we dont even make a meaningful push down to low 4ks then holy shit we might be starting raging bull market mode and the Baby Bull could be having early puberty from all the lovely steroids money printers keep injecting into it.

A little DMT laced Hopium thought for the day. What if JPM in hopes of making its stable coin the king of stable coins has set its bought and paid for regulators after Tether with plans to eventually declare Tether an illegal coin and subject any institution(exchange, bank, etc) who uses it to sanctions, confiscations, and prosecutions??? This would mean that tether holders would lose all hope of ever getting dollars for tethers even if they are backed by reserve dollars, and every bitcoiner and shitcoiner would trade tethers for Bitcoins and shitcoins as fast as possible pushing us to 100k by Christmas.    

Just a thought now back to regular scheduled state and msm sanctioned Fud and doom.  

[realr0ach]

JayJuanGee, your social credit score is no longer high enough to post.

[mindrust]

Everything about bitcoin is natural. Scarcity too. Bitcoin was created by a holy creature who came from the outer space. His nickname was satoshi but in reality nobody knows his real name or how he looks like. (His real public name is probably something like this: 1SaThaHs2h7jsk... and his last name is his privates )

Many people think (including me) he was an alien came from a far away galaxy, taught us to use cryptography as a currency and when he was done with his job he teleported back to his planet. He left us with enough information to solve the rest of the problems.

TlDr?

Bitcoin is %100 natural.

[JayJuanGee]

JayJuanGee, your social credit score is no longer high enough to post.

Yeah right. We now have a world in which the BIGGEST PM shill and intolerant nutjob who does not even know how to pick up a girl is deciding social credit score.... rrriiiiiggghhhhht.

Remember to wake me up when your little dream-time is over.