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Question: Did we reach the bottom already?
Yes - 60 (50%)
No, it's coming later this year - 44 (36.7%)
No, it's coming next year or after - 16 (13.3%)
Total Voters: 120

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25871145 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (170 posts by 5 users with 9 merit deleted.)
skysblu
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January 16, 2020, 10:59:01 PM
Merited by Globb0 (5)



Literally that is how the price of bitcoin affects me lately, wish this recent pump waited a few more days when my exams finish. Now I legit can't focus on this stuff as I'm constantly on bitcoin stuff fml
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According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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bitserve
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January 16, 2020, 10:59:33 PM

"services"

"People" need those "services". Specially loans... they do love to spend money they don't have. It doesn't matter if the denomination is USD... or BTC.
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January 16, 2020, 11:38:26 PM

If I had to title this TA, it'd be called "The bearish case is becoming increasingly difficult to argue"



VPVR since $8K breakout in November 2017 says we are above the median volume line.
Closing above the $8350 level this week would look uber bullish on this indicator.
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January 16, 2020, 11:54:52 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2020, 12:07:54 AM by Biodom

If I had to title this TA, it'd be called "The bearish case is becoming increasingly difficult to argue"



VPVR since $8K breakout in November 2017 says we are above the median volume line.
Closing above the $8350 level this week would look uber bullish on this indicator.

Funny...someone could have gone sailing around the globe since Oct-Nov 2017 (with no internet) and miss the whole lot of excitement.
Fortunes were made and lost.

El duderino_
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January 16, 2020, 11:55:07 PM

1917, the dude approved

JayJuanGee
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January 17, 2020, 12:08:14 AM

If I had to title this TA, it'd be called "The bearish case is becoming increasingly difficult to argue"



VPVR since $8K breakout in November 2017 says we are above the median volume line.
Closing above the $8350 level this week would look uber bullish on this indicator.

Funny...someone could have gone sailing around the globe since Oct-Nov 2017 (with no internet) and miss the whole lot of excitement.
Fortunes were made and lost.

Suggestion for a poll: what % of your bitcoin you would sell for fiat or other investments at btc=50K (or 100K, but 50K looks more realistic right now):

None
0.1-10%
10-20%
a third
half
3/4
All

Personally, I believe that is NOT a fair question because any BTC price is a product of where it is and how much time it takes to get there, so to be fair, we need a time.  February 2020?  October 2020?   October 2021? October 2024?  or some other date?
Biodom
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January 17, 2020, 12:12:03 AM

If I had to title this TA, it'd be called "The bearish case is becoming increasingly difficult to argue"



VPVR since $8K breakout in November 2017 says we are above the median volume line.
Closing above the $8350 level this week would look uber bullish on this indicator.

Funny...someone could have gone sailing around the globe since Oct-Nov 2017 (with no internet) and miss the whole lot of excitement.
Fortunes were made and lost.

Suggestion for a poll: what % of your bitcoin you would sell for fiat or other investments at btc=50K (or 100K, but 50K looks more realistic right now):

None
0.1-10%
10-20%
a third
half
3/4
All

Personally, I believe that is NOT a fair question because any BTC price is a product of where it is and how much time it takes to get there, so to be fair, we need a time.  February 2020?  October 2020?   October 2021? October 2024?  or some other date?

the poll idea was premature anyway (for some reason i thought that today is already 17th), so I deleted it while you were typing.
Disconnecting and proceeding to watch "Dark"-first couple episodes were meh, will try one more and see if it picks up.
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January 17, 2020, 12:44:56 AM
Merited by jbreher (1)

Just spent an hour educating myself on Bitcoin entropy inspired by a r0ach post, haha. Picked up a couple gems from here anyway.
https://medium.com/the-bitcoin-times/bitcoins-eternal-struggle-2c197f1bafd8
I liked the argument that BTC is mostly informational however nonetheless physical which negates r0aches claim that it's imaginary.


I don't have to ask permission to anyone to do something with a silver coin in my hand.   
What is this 'something' you're doing with a silver coin? Surely you're not able to spend it like a currency and even if someone had agreed to accept it as payment, you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  Roll Eyes  At least Bitcoin works as settlement. Because its immeasurably more convenient and secure than PM's is the primary reasons it's a currency and PM's are not.
I don't buy your hypothetical Armageddon doomsday scenarios of centralization for BTC
Bitcoin is going to be what we make of it.  It will take many years of hard work education and community support to stand proud in our efforts.
Those who are too old, tired, and unproductive should stand aside while fresh minds pave progress.

I leave you with one of my favorite tunes
jojo69
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1/21000000 , the only math you need to know


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January 17, 2020, 01:12:42 AM

you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  Roll Eyes

hardly

1000 OZ fits in an ammo can

I get where you are coming from and largely agree, but one can easily carry the value of a good used car in Ag with one hand.
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January 17, 2020, 01:38:56 AM

The value of gold and silver is not the Comex price, you fools.  Assuming gold and silver were the base of the monetary system with 40% traditional backing and 260 trillion global debt, the price of gold would need to be around 30-40x what it is now ($45,000 - $60,000) with silver at astronomical prices of $900-$3000 (minimum 50:1, maximum 20:1 GSR).
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January 17, 2020, 01:56:33 AM

you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  Roll Eyes

hardly

1000 OZ fits in an ammo can

I get where you are coming from and largely agree, but one can easily carry the value of a good used car in Ag with one hand.

Fair enough, 1000 ounces, approx. 63 lbs/28 kilos valued at $17,900 will likely be the limit for the average able-bodied human and only for short distances unassisted. 4000 ounces valued at $71,600 would be a heavy wheelbarrow load.
jojo69
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1/21000000 , the only math you need to know


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January 17, 2020, 02:23:18 AM

those are Troy ounces

68.57 pounds plus the can

yeah, they suck to move
marcus_of_augustus
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Eadem mutata resurgo


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January 17, 2020, 02:39:22 AM
Merited by Paashaas (2), vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), jojo69 (1), infofront (1), bitserve (1)


Lol, monopoly is more accurate than I thought... They need to make a bitcoin/crypto edition too where bank is non existent in the game, I'm surprised they haven't come up with that yet

Bitcoin won't make banks magically disappear. If Bitcoin succeeds, banks will adopt Bitcoin, and you will use banks.

... banks, central banks in particular, wont magically disappear. They will most likely disappear in spectacular catastrophic collapses, fiatnado firestorms that take large parts of the global economy with them. Or they will disappear with excrutiatingly slow economic stagnation epochs; creating zombie-stumbling, wealth-destroying behemoths roaming the financial landscape preying on anything that looks like growth and suffocating it in command-and-control stymying decline.

Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit. Bitcoin's invention of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol makes it hard to overstate the leap ahead these technologies provide versus fiat money, centralised ledgers, fractional reserve custody and command-and-control economic (mis)management through monetary manipulations.

The writing is on the wall for banks, we just don't know what will replace them. A lack of imagination in that regard is no excuse to lazily proclaim that "nothing really changes". It's not unrealistic to expect that now the basic building blocks of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol are demonstrated to the information age, and now being built out to a production ready state, that many of the 'services' of modern financial institutions can be simply replaced by algorithmic tools and machine programmes, i.e. code.
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January 17, 2020, 03:15:46 AM

what impresses me about blockchain.info's exponential growth of wallet users is that it has continued long after them no longer being the only game in town and the absolute proliferation of other bitcoin 'web' wallets out there now.

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/my-wallet-n-users?timespan=all
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January 17, 2020, 03:47:53 AM

BTCUSDLONGS Bitfinex has nearly reversed its position from a couple weeks ago.
Meaningful or not, its still impressive, pretty lines. That long position made out quite well recently I suspect.
By comparison, BTCUSDSHORTS Bitfinex are also on the rise lately.
Searing
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January 17, 2020, 04:45:38 AM



Well, things seem to be moving up again here in the last hour or so. I wonder how much of all this hype to buy 'any coin of any flavor' has to do with the 'obvious' IMHO

massive wash trading on 'sketchy' BSV exchanges. The old saw of buying a little bit of sh*tcoin and compensate by buying more legit crypto out of how dirty you feel Sad (hey don't judge)

but man, whatever you say about BSV, if this is not massive wash trading....well...then the whole BSV pump is befuddling to me....can you say BSV 'exit scam?' IMHO.

Anyway, like the movement even though just getting started. A nice huge weekend pump would make the blizzard the next 2 days in Minnesota go a lot better, let me tell ya!
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January 17, 2020, 04:52:23 AM
Last edit: January 17, 2020, 05:12:07 AM by jupiter9

Took some time to read 25 pages back and found...
nothing!

Good to be back, hopefully for good
You found nothing? What are you looking for? Girls?
Hey homie! You clearly don't know who do you want to f*** with here.

Auto-Censorship mode ON


This is Stock to Flow in full power!

That's it! Time is on our side now Wink
You are a bad reader anyway. Why don't you censore all users here? You couldn't find anything on the 25 pages? So you can f*** with all users here who posted some usefull content and say you found nothing. But nobody can't say anything to you. You block him right away. If you are too sensitive you must censore your words!
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January 17, 2020, 05:10:09 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), Paashaas (1), JayJuanGee (1)


Lol, monopoly is more accurate than I thought... They need to make a bitcoin/crypto edition too where bank is non existent in the game, I'm surprised they haven't come up with that yet

Bitcoin won't make banks magically disappear. If Bitcoin succeeds, banks will adopt Bitcoin, and you will use banks.

... banks, central banks in particular, wont magically disappear. They will most likely disappear in spectacular catastrophic collapses, fiatnado firestorms that take large parts of the global economy with them. Or they will disappear with excrutiatingly slow economic stagnation epochs; creating zombie-stumbling, wealth-destroying behemoths roaming the financial landscape preying on anything that looks like growth and suffocating it in command-and-control stymying decline.

Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit. Bitcoin's invention of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol makes it hard to overstate the leap ahead these technologies provide versus fiat money, centralised ledgers, fractional reserve custody and command-and-control economic (mis)management through monetary manipulations.

The writing is on the wall for banks, we just don't know what will replace them. A lack of imagination in that regard is no excuse to lazily proclaim that "nothing really changes". It's not unrealistic to expect that now the basic building blocks of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol are demonstrated to the information age, and now being built out to a production ready state, that many of the 'services' of modern financial institutions can be simply replaced by algorithmic tools and machine programmes, i.e. code.

This is a very interesting debate.

There are some semantics involved... What are banks?

Yeah, central banks I guess are those that really do print fiat money (even if by mandate or in according to regulations of their respective governments). Those would be the most affected by wide adoption of Bitcoin, yes.

But then there is "regular" banks. The ones that provide "service" to their clients (business, individuals, etc). Currently most of those don't want to have anything to do with Bitcoin. But I don't think the widespread adoption of BTC would mean they would disappear.  And it doesn't matter if it is the same "brands" that we know and hear about every day... even if those would die in a catastrophical financial collapse, other new ones would replace them.

For example, even in current early stage of adoption, we are seeing how many business are being born around BTC that resemble "banks" or at least some of the services of "traditional" banking: Exchanges, ATM providers, custodial providers, margin/loan providers, debit card providers, etc...

In some way we could even call them "banks" right now, in a sense.

What's the difference if it is called "Banco de Santander" vs "Xapo"?

And what stops "Banco de Santander" buying "Xapo" in the future to integrate it in its core if "traditional banking" stops being profitable for them?

The idea of replacing those services by "algorithmic tools and machine programmes" is great but not only we are not there yet but also some of those services would be pretty hard to replace just by that... Unless we are talking about several decades into the future.

And then there is loans/credit. Which is why banks were born in first instance. As long as there is people that do have "excess" and some others that "need to borrow" some of that excess... there will be "banks". Be it FIAT money with its unlimited printing and fractional banking, be it grains... or be it Bitcoin.

Quote
Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit

Yeah, I can agree that if Bitcoin succeeds surviving banks would probably not fit into that definition anymore. Also there were banks way before the introduction of FIAT money which proves it is not a requisite to their existence. My opinion is that they would just evolve and adapt to the new paradigm, at least the ones surviving.

For me that's not disappearing but just evolving. Also I think we will see traditional banks (not talking about central banks) integrating Bitcoin in some ways during the next few years... way before the FIAT system disappears (as in cease to exist... not just "another" financial crisis).

It's governments who perverted banks with the introduction of FIAT and "economic policies", not the other way around even if nowadays they dance in unison.
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January 17, 2020, 05:13:48 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Quote
After successfully making the case for non-custodial as a regulatory requirement to be exempt from securities regulations, our next move is to make the case for mandatory Coinjoin (and/or other privacy techniques) as a requirement to comply with Canada's privacy protection laws.
https://twitter.com/francispouliot_/status/1217929523183923201?s=19

He's referencing bullbitcoin,  I believe this platform is truly paving the way in such positive ways. I'd really like to see more just like this available in other countries.
Thankful to be able to participate as a Canadian and support their roadmap.
JayJuanGee
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January 17, 2020, 05:19:15 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1)

The value of gold and silver is not the Comex price, you fools.  Assuming gold and silver were the base of the monetary system with 40% traditional backing and 260 trillion global debt, the price of gold would need to be around 30-40x what it is now ($45,000 - $60,000) with silver at astronomical prices of $900-$3000 (minimum 50:1, maximum 20:1 GSR).


You know what they say about "assuming?"

Kind of reminds me of that word "imagining"


Also reminds me of the concept "pie in the sky" thinking.


Takes a lot of imagining to believe that the world is going to voluntarily go back to a gold-backed system, and to all of a sudden become more responsible in its accounting for gold, the gold reserves and the paper gold.  Sure, it is possible.  Anything is possible.



To me, Bitcoin does not seem to require as much imagining as gold, but hey gold bugs are gonna gold bug... Too bad that they feel that they need to gold bug their lil selfies in the bitcoin thread.


you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  Roll Eyes

hardly

1000 OZ fits in an ammo can

I get where you are coming from and largely agree, but one can easily carry the value of a good used car in Ag with one hand.

Fair enough, 1000 ounces, approx. 63 lbs/28 kilos valued at $17,900 will likely be the limit for the average able-bodied human and only for short distances unassisted. 4000 ounces valued at $71,600 would be a heavy wheelbarrow load.

those are Troy ounces

68.57 pounds plus the can

yeah, they suck to move

Imagine that you could get the mayor to give you back your pants, and then you strategically slip those silver bars in your various hidden pockets in order to transport them to various locations of your own choosing.  Easy peasy!!!!  I would choose gold, because it will be lighter and easier to avoid detection.
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