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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26399884 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
JayJuanGee
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March 02, 2023, 03:42:44 AM
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F.u. status is a relative term for sure. I took your entry-level f.u. status value of $2M as a reference, which I guess is a pretty comfortable amount of wealth for the average someone to be able to live without having to be a wage-slave, assuming one is in a wage-slave-type job

I would consider that getting to fuck you status is not necessarily any kind of statement about whether or not work is oppressive, but instead to suggest that fuck you status allows a choice about whether to work for financial reasons in order to continue to live more or less at the same (or similar) standard of living that you are accustomed and/or that you are willing to adapt to once you enter into that fuck you status.. .. so that work becomes completely optional in terms of financial considerations.. without fooling ourselves if we were to go into supposed fuck you status and have to come back out of it because we had failed to sufficiently plan for inflation and/or other future matters that affect an ability to sustain fuck you status.  Sure, there could be some truly outlier situations that were not foreseeable that might cause having to go back into working in order to sustain oneself.. and from my point of view that should be totally an aberrant outlier situation rather than failing to adequately plan for various extreme contingencies.

-- there are exceptions, where a job can be quite pleasurable, in which case the corn f.u. amount can serve as a backup for when things at work turn sour.

You seem to be referring to situations in which someone might be forced into retirement or going into fuck you status due to somewhat hostile or unworkable circumstances.. and surely, I would not deny that there could be some situations in which some of us might find ourselves 50% or more towards reaching our definition of entry-level fuck you status, and we could still find ways to still enter into fuck you status at a rate that ends up being way less than we had been previously planning... Nothing wrong with that, even though maybe the first 5-10 years in fuck you status might be a kind of frugal fuck you status.. but still I would think that we may well want to make sure that our fuck you status entrance is sustainable before entering into it full time .. but surely there could be quite a few variations in terms of different kinds of circumstances that guys/gals will find themselves and to be able to individually determine if their situation is workable in terms of actually entering into fuck you status or maybe they might want to stay in the workforce a bit longer in order to assure an adequate financial cushion prior to entering into fuck you status in a more full-time kind of a way.

Then there's also the issue of medical insurance and other state benefits and societal issues relating to having a job vs. being unemployed.

I don't have any problem with including some various state benefits as part of any package that we might consider to be part of our circumstances and/or cashflow considerations while we might be in a permanent sustainable fuck you status or maybe as part of a transition into fuck you status, and of course, any of us should attempt to have our bitcoin stash as a kind of empowerment in which we might well understand/appreciate that all or some of those government benefits might go away in part or might go away completely.  I doubt that it would be practical to hold ourselves up to such "high standards" that we might consider that we don't need, want or will not calculate those as part of whatever income that we might get while we are in fuck you status, or prior to entering into fuck you status.

I remember that at some earlier date, maybe a year ago or more, I had attempted to grill you in regards to your assessment of medical benefits, and whether you perceived that the receipt of medical benefits or the ability to continue receiving medical was a hinderance to your own personal calculations regarding how practical it may be to enter into fuck you status in an earlier time than you might have had otherwise been considering to be feasible.

For sure, there is no need for you to disclose very much in terms of OPSec, yet many of us likely realize that in the USA, medical costs are extremely a high possible portion of any cost that any of us might need to consider whether considering them only on our own behalf or if we might include the medical benefits of some dependents.. and whether or not we might feel that we do not really want to get too attached to any wifey and we might believe that we can be sufficiently satisfied by the H part of your later referred to consumption potentials, there may be ways in which legacy concerns still may well end up becoming contemplated.. and perhaps some of that might be included within prior to enter fuck you status contemplations but then could become an additional cost that arrives after fuck you status that becomes more in line with dependent and/or life partner rather than H status.. even it there might not have been those earlier intentions in regards to kinds of costs, kinds of lifestyle and kinds of values and/or priorities that could end up changing through the years.


In any case, $2M can provide a sense of freedom and independence, to a greater or lesser extent, depending on country of residence, spending habits, addictions to LHB-type goods and services, etc.

I believe it is a good starting point in terms of a default presumption, in terms of talking about entry-level thresholds, and of course, even if we might try to hold the number constant in terms of today's dollars, we also likely realize that there are guys/gals who could get by comfortably with 1/10 that level or some guys/gals believe that they need 10x that level, even if we are to presume holding the dollars constant for our discussion purposes here in our back and forths.

Another important thing to consider is Bitcoin volatility and global events that can potentially add outliers to the overall "it's going up forever, Laura" trend. A local deviation of sufficient magnitude and duration, combined with lack of preparedness for DOWNities and absence of some fiat buffering (when in Rome, do as Romans do) could force one to liquidate more corn than originally planned, thus shortening the f.u. time horizon and weakening one's position in relation to self-sufficiency.

You likely realize that I have frequently argued that using the 200-week moving average should sufficiently and adequately account for such extremes, but then surely having 9 months in which the BTC price has been below the 200-week moving average and even spending a number of weeks more than 35% below the 200-week moving average can bring some pause in terms of considering whether the 200-week moving average is even enough of a bottom indicator or whether some other extreme lower indicator might need to be used... Personally, I am not really that close to giving up on the 200-week moving average, even though I understand that it is problematic that we have already spent so much time below it, and we are still right around 6.5% below it as I type this post... ..

....

.... yet are either of us lacking in confidence in bitcoin in such a way that we are not able to figure out some formulas in which we might end up selling more BTC during the UPPlty periods in order to somewhat over prepare ourselves for the extreme DOWNity periods?  Even though I am still working out these matters, I am not feeling exactly vulnerable.. and perhaps if any of us (including you) feel somewhat vulnerable, then maybe that is a sign that you might need to wait one more cycle in order that even during extreme downities, you still might be 10x to 15x or even more UP, so you are not really worried about if you might have to sell some cornz below the 200-week moving average or whatever other indicator that you might end up using as your bottom guide (that we end up going below).

By the way, around 2 or 3 years ago.. it may have been in 2019, I had already decided for myself that I would work formulas out to be able to sell BTC at whatever price that I wanted.. so long as the BTC price does not go back below $5k.. So, I kind of put that "somewhat artificial" line in the sand for my own personal circumstances, that I am not selling any BTC below $5k, but as long as the BTC price is above $5k, then more or less (within reason) I am going to do whatever I like in terms if I might have to sell some BTC or whatever.. and of course, following Gresham's law to sell other less valuable assets (which is everything else) first... but still even $5k would be at least 5x profits for me.. as long as I am keeping with my theoretical framework in which I continue to consider my average cost per BTC to be right around $1k.

In any event, I surely doubt that we are going into the 4 digits again.. but surely we have to be prepared for anything financially and psychologically and still put our own systems (and perhaps limitations and guidelines) into place in regards to what we believe is acceptable BTC portfolio management for our own situation (and surely no one wants to get mindrusted.. probably even mindrust did not want that).

As things currently stand, entry-level f.u. status is attained at a value of 80 BTC (upper fish-level rank). This looks quite bleak for Bitcoin noobs and other low-ranking species such as shrimps and lower (< 1 BTC), but they should not fall into the "too expensive" trap. Crabs and octopuses (1-50 BTC) are in a better position, and should reach f.u. status within the next 5-10 years (conservative estimate).

Of course, newbie nocoiner, precoiners and/or low coiners have to figure out a BTC accumulation and/or maintenance strategy that works for them based on their own situation, and bitcoin was never likely a get rich quick scheme, even though it did end up getting some folks pretty rich, pretty fast, yet there is still a need to figure out a BTC accumulation and/or maintenance approach that accounts for various other aspects of their personal financial/psychological status.. and actual BTC performance (or expected performance) is ONLY one of the considerations..


Aiming to own 1 whole BTC is a healthy and realistic target for noobs who are employed and relatively healthy financially. $24k is not a great amount and I urge all such noobs who have this kind of cash in a bank account to buy 1 BTC ASAP, put it in a wallet they control and forget about it (no trading!).

I likely would not make such a recommendation, unless I were to already know that the person had something like a $240k quasi-liquid investment portfolio and they considered that 10% is their BTC accumulation goal.  Of course, since about mid 2020, I have been starting to consider that a 1% to 25% allocation to bitcoin would be a sufficient and adequately prudent starting point, so 25% would be on the more aggressive side, so in the case of getting to whole coiner status then such person who has determined to allocate 25% to bitcoin might have had an existing investment portfolio with nearly $100k in value...

I don't mean to be unnecessarily combative, but I also don't consider that there is much of any importance in having to reach whole coiner status unless either the financial and psychological circumstances already allow for it, and surely once anyone gets beyond beginner status, then the can go outside of my 1% to 25% starting out BTC allocation recommendations.. and of course, anyone who actually studies into the bitcoin matter and might ONLY have $24k cash in an account and they do not have any other investments (but they otherwise have their cashflow and living expenses - including emergency fund covered), then of course, they might decide to be aggressive in terms of causing their ONLY investment to be BTC. .and they no longer have that cash sitting there (and likely doing nothing but losing value over the coming years).

By the way, I did have some kind of a similar situation in around late 2014, when i had "accidentally" found out that a person that I knew had around $50k in cash in a bank account that was ONLY earning around 1% interest (I cannot recall the rate at the time).  I gave that person a lecture regarding how dumb that it seemed to me to have so much money that was not doing anything.. and that amount was likely close to 2x of that person's then yearly income... anyhow, the person did end up listening to me, in part, and may well have bought somewhere around $4k or so in bitcoin with that money.. I cannot remember the details.. and I was not very involved in hand-holding beyond lecturing when I had found out about it... Kind of my somewhat passive aggressive way.. including my acknowledgement that people are going to do whatever the fuck they want, and I am not going to take responsibility for them, even though I might call some people dumb sometimes, if I find out that they are doing something that I consider to be dumb (or doesn't seem to be too smart)... but people don't really listen.. and if they do frequently they won't admit it.  I am similar to that too.  We all get kind of stubborn in our patterns.. including that there can be some secrecy in regards to financials, and surely I am not really wanting to know too much about the specific's of people's financials if they are not really voluntarily disclosing.. but when we are talking about bitcoin, sometimes those kinds of topics end up forcing to come to the surface.. even when uncomfortable on all sides.. whether in true life or even over the intertubes.

In the next 10 years I see whole-coiners entering f.u. status too. Yes, this is Bitcoin, and no, this is not financial advice, but I wish I had that advice when I started in 2015...

What would you have wanted some supposedly "trusted" person to advise you?  Something like:

"go buy 80 BTC you dumb twat.  It ONLY going to cost you less than $300 at this time, which is about $24k, and you have enough to afford it.., so go out there and make the purchase, and perhaps in 8-10 years, 80BTC is going to bring you to fuck you status."

By the way, probably in 2015, we were still considering entry-level fuck you status to have had been in the ballpark of $1 million (in 2015 dollars), but these days, we surely are considering $2 million to be entry-level fuck you status in today's dollars... so yeah, $24k was worth more in 2015 than it is today.. 2015 dollars are only worth around $0.50.. so maybe these days, you have to tell someone to spend $48k in order to be spending the equivalent of $24k in 2015...

That inflation between 2015 and now (and especially more known and knowable after March 2020), is part of the reason why these days as a kind of default position, I frequently tell people to: "get the fuck started buying BTC and start by buying $100 per week in bitcoin and work out the details as you go along", and in 2015, I was telling people: "get the fuck started buying BTC and start out by buying $10 per week in bitcoin and work out the details as you go along."  I also told them that I am not responsible for anything that they choose to do, but they better get the fuck started sooner rather than later.. #justsaying.. something like that.. as long as anyone seemed willing to listen.. some people were not willing to listen.. just like today, lots of people not willing to listen... so I only say what peeps are willing to listen to and if they seem to be somewhat interested and interactive on the BTC topic.

tl;dr: Double-digit coiners are already in the rocket, they can either HoDL, or BTFD/DCA.

I agree.  Double digits is a great foundation.

Remember a few months ago, Philip had said something like 100 BTC is not enough, and those with 100 BTC better sell some BTC and they better get into cash and earn some yield with IBonds.. blah blah blah.. .. and holy fucking shit.. now versus a few months ago is not really very much different if we look at the 200-week moving average.. and so 80-100 BTC has been in the already fuck you status levels for about the past year or even a bit longer (even though BTC prices have not really been very cooperative in the past 9 months or so).

but yeah, I agree that it does not hurt to keep accumulating, but if someone is already at double digits in terms of their bitcoins, they have a decently good foundation that may well get them to entry level fuck you status (if we are presuming $2 million as the current threshold) within the next 5 years.. but could take a bit longer depending on specifics.. and surely it would always be good to be engaging in strategies in which the BTC either continues to build or at least does not go below certain thresholds that each person determines for himself/herself .. which is just getting to the idea of trying NOT to be shaving too much BTC off of your portfolio until getting into a pretty solid situation in which fuck you status is in sight within timelines that are personally acceptable.

Noobs should immediately start accumulating as much as possible, ideally reaching 1 BTC (or more, of course).

For sure, the more that can be accumulated the better.. and be as aggressive as you can without getting reckt.. There are some folks who can easily afford $250 or more per week, but there are some folks who might really be stretching matters to accumulate $10 worth of bitcoin per week.

Always have a backup plan and always be prepared for DOWNities.

That would be don't invest more than you can lose.. which should never involve ending up overstretching oneself in order that s/he has to sell BTC at any time that is other than of his/her own choosing... so yeah, buy BTC using DCA, Lumpsum and buying on dips, so each of those strategies would be good for any BTC accumulation strategy.. including that there could be some times that HODL is necessary if you run out of money when the BTC price is going down further than expected.. .which may well happen from time to time.. especially as anyone is getting used to attempting to follow a sufficiently aggressive and assertive approach that does not go overboard in terms of causing that person to get reckt or otherwise have to sell BTC at a time that is other than his/her complete choosing.

Buy when you can, sell when you must.

Jimbo?  Is that you?

That seems to be the strategy that applies once you either get to higher levels of maintenance stage in your BTC holdings and/or into liquidation stages of your BTC holdings, but not as applicable when in BTC accumulation stages.  I surely do not suggest any selling of BTC at all while in accumulation stages.. especially the earlier of accumulation stages, so selling is not a method for accumulating.. and anyone who might establish various personal accumulation strategies, there are a variety of ways in which such accumulation strategies can be formulated whether it is to target 1% to 25% of your investment portfolio, or to establish a certain amount of BTC, even if BTC might end up constituting some higher portion of your overall investment portfolio... and surely even someone who might start out with a decently sized investment portfolio (even $100k to $500k), it could take him/her 1 or two years or even longer to get the BTC portion allocated to the target level, and someone who might start out with hardly any income could take 10 to 20 years before really feeling that his/her BTC is getting him/her to the place that s/he wants to be in terms of being able to potentially retire early or to supplement other cashflows, and surely there are folks who take 30 to 40 years to reach fuck you status (or some kind of comfortable retirement situation), and some people do not even make it to such status, even if it seems that they did everything right.. and BTC could possibly reduce the amount of time by half or even more, but likely ONLY if being prudent and aggressive in regards to how to manage BTC accumulation in personally tailored ways that do not devolve into gambling or overdoing it so much that there is not sufficient guards in place to protect principle (also known as employing decent risk management strategies).
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March 02, 2023, 03:53:04 AM







 






What would you have wanted some supposedly "trusted" person to advise you?  Something like:

"go buy 80 BTC you dumb twat.  It ONLY going to cost you less than $300 at this time, which is about $24k, and you have enough to afford it.., so go out there and make the purchase, and perhaps in 8-10 years, 80BTC is going to bring you to fuck you status."

<big snip>

I agree.  Double digits is a great foundation.

Remember a few months ago, Philip had said something like 100 BTC is not enough, and those with 100 BTC better sell some BTC and they better get into cash and earn some yield with IBonds.. blah blah blah.. .. and holy fucking shit.. now versus a few months ago is not really very much different if we look at the 200-week moving average.. and so 80-100 BTC has been in the already fuck you status levels for about the past year or even a bit longer (even though BTC prices have not really been very cooperative in the past 9 months or so).

but yeah, I agree that it does not hurt to keep accumulating, but if someone is already at double digits in terms of their bitcoins, they have a decently good foundation that may well get them to entry level fuck you status (if we are presuming $2 million as the current threshold) within the next 5 years.. but could take a bit longer depending on specifics.. and surely it would always be good to be engaging in strategies in which the BTC either continues to build or at least does not go below certain thresholds that each person determines for himself/herself .. which is just getting to the idea of trying NOT to be shaving too much BTC off of your portfolio until getting into a pretty solid situation in which fuck you status is in sight within timelines that are personally acceptable.

Noobs should immediately start accumulating as much as possible, ideally reaching 1 BTC (or more, of course).

For sure, the more that can be accumulated the better.. and be as aggressive as you can without getting reckt.. There are some folks who can easily afford $250 or more per week, but there are some folks who might really be stretching matters to accumulate $10 worth of bitcoin per week.

Always have a backup plan and always be prepared for DOWNities.

That would be don't invest more than you can lose.. which should never involve ending up overstretching oneself in order that s/he has to sell BTC at any time that is other than of his/her own choosing... so yeah, buy BTC using DCA, Lumpsum and buying on dips, so each of those strategies would be good for any BTC accumulation strategy.. including that there could be some times that HODL is necessary if you run out of money when the BTC price is going down further than expected.. .which may well happen from time to time.. especially as anyone is getting used to attempting to follow a sufficiently aggressive and assertive approach that does not go overboard in terms of causing that person to get reckt or otherwise have to sell BTC at a time that is other than his/her complete choosing.

Buy when you can, sell when you must.

Jimbo?  Is that you?

That seems to be the strategy that applies once you either get to higher levels of maintenance stage in your BTC holdings and/or into liquidation stages of your BTC holdings, but not as applicable when in BTC accumulation stages.  I surely do not suggest any selling of BTC at all while in accumulation stages.. especially the earlier of accumulation stages, so selling is not a method for accumulating.. and anyone who might establish various personal accumulation strategies, there are a variety of ways in which such accumulation strategies can be formulated whether it is to target 1% to 25% of your investment portfolio, or to establish a certain amount of BTC, even if BTC might end up constituting some higher portion of your overall investment portfolio... and surely even someone who might start out with a decently sized investment portfolio (even $100k to $500k), it could take him/her 1 or two years or even longer to get the BTC portion allocated to the target level, and someone who might start out with hardly any income could take 10 to 20 years before really feeling that his/her BTC is getting him/her to the place that s/he wants to be in terms of being able to potentially retire early or to supplement other cashflows, and surely there are folks who take 30 to 40 years to reach fuck you status (or some kind of comfortable retirement situation), and some people do not even make it to such status, even if it seems that they did everything right.. and BTC could possibly reduce the amount of time by half or even more, but likely ONLY if being prudent and aggressive in regards to how to manage BTC accumulation in personally tailored ways that do not devolve into gambling or overdoing it so much that there is not sufficient guards in place to protect principle (also known as employing decent risk management strategies).
[/quote]

For me to be in FU status today I need about 110 coins
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March 02, 2023, 04:01:13 AM


Explanation
philipma1957
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March 02, 2023, 04:07:21 AM

@ jjg

My problem is technically I am in FU status as you define it.

But the money coming in is government pensions.

So to replace the pensions and health benefits I would need 2.5-3.0 million worth of BTC.

Its why I play this game a lot differently than you do.


So buddy did 23 not 24 posts for March 1 and I did 25 or 26.

1 win for me.
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March 02, 2023, 04:40:40 AM
Last edit: March 02, 2023, 04:54:47 AM by JayJuanGee
Merited by Gachapin (1)

Bitcoin is too Complicated For Grandmother....
Video link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/11enabj/bitcoin_is_too_complicated_for_grandma/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

My grandma after 78 years of refusing to give in to technology (and she holds a Master degree, is a published writer, etc) finally accepted when I gave her a smartphone because she heard about "calling drivers that are less expensive than taxis and that don't scam you, but you need internet on your phone" (Uber).

Two hours after I gave her the smartphone (just initial configuration and putting the credit card on the uber app), she messaged me saying that she found music and movies from her childhood on the "red TV thingy" (youtube). Next day she sent me a sticker on whatsapp; I never even installed her whatsapp, she had to figure out google play store and install it on her own. She still doesn't even understand the concept of wifi and mobile data and why she can't use the internet outside of her house.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/11enabj/bitcoin_is_too_complicated_for_grandma/jaftyp3?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Hopefully, grandma does not end up getting reckt... sometimes too much too fast is not a good thing... but hey.. whatever.  It's not my grandma.


Hoping for a green week ahead of us.

Even if presumptively that chart with the squigglies was done by you, it would be better if you provide a bit of an explanation rather than just posting your "hope" and what seems to be a bunch of random thing-ie-ma-jiggies..  that hardly mean shit if we have not gotten some senses regarding how you analyze things a wee bit MOAR better.. rather than trying to discover what you mean by sorting through -  like a puzzle..

Anyone here like puzzles that are provided by "randos" on the inter---tooobs?  

I have my doubts.

I think beating buddy for 1 entire month will be hard.

It's like Mr. Smith Goes To Washington..

Ie..

a filibuster.... (and a potential double entendre, too)    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Buddy isn't even real.

Those are fighting words.   Angry Angry Angry

Buddy is real..

Buddy is real..

You need to take lessons from this below "lion," and substitute the word "ChartBuddy" for "spooks."




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sKzPBu2M8A
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March 02, 2023, 04:54:15 AM
Merited by Toxic2040 (1)

Bitcoin is too Complicated For Grandmother....
Video link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/11enabj/bitcoin_is_too_complicated_for_grandma/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

My grandma after 78 years of refusing to give in to technology (and she holds a Master degree, is a published writer, etc) finally accepted when I gave her a smartphone because she heard about "calling drivers that are less expensive than taxis and that don't scam you, but you need internet on your phone" (Uber).

Two hours after I gave her the smartphone (just initial configuration and putting the credit card on the uber app), she messaged me saying that she found music and movies from her childhood on the "red TV thingy" (youtube). Next day she sent me a sticker on whatsapp; I never even installed her whatsapp, she had to figure out google play store and install it on her own. She still doesn't even understand the concept of wifi and mobile data and why she can't use the internet outside of her house.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/11enabj/bitcoin_is_too_complicated_for_grandma/jaftyp3?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

Hopefully, grandma does not end up getting reckt... sometimes too much too fast is not a good thing... but hey.. whatever.  It's not my grandma.


Hoping for a green week ahead of us.

Even if presumptively that chart with the squigglies was done by you, it would be better if you provide a bit of an explanation rather than just posting your "hope" and what seems to be a bunch of random thing-ie-ma-jiggies..  that hardly mean shit if we have not gotten some senses regarding how you analyze things a wee bit MOAR better.. rather than trying to discover what you mean by sorting through -  like a puzzle..

Anyone here like puzzles that are provided by "randos" on the inter---tooobs?  

I have my doubts.

I think beating buddy for 1 entire month will be hard.

It's like Mr. Smith Goes To Washington..
 
Ie..

a filibuster.... (and a potential double entendre, too)    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Buddy isn't even real.

Those are fighting words.   Angry Angry Angry

Buddy is real..

Buddy is real..



You got it right buddy is real.

In fact sometimes I wonder if all of us are bots 🤖 and simply are in various states of self denial.
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March 02, 2023, 05:01:17 AM


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March 02, 2023, 05:06:59 AM

I am matching buddy shot for shot so far.
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March 02, 2023, 05:14:27 AM

Basically you guys (mainly El Duderino and JJG) are cursing them....

I wouldn't mind cursing uie-pooie.

 Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue

[edited out]
I considered telling your second point to JJG,

No need.  Nutildah brings this point up frequently...It's already been addressed, which largely boils down to the sending of smerits as being discretionary.

.. and I surely have my doubts about the supposed "downfall" of this thread.. blah blah blah due to the merit system or whatever...

Overall, we have pretty damned decent posts in this thread and even other parts of the forum since the implementation of the merit system.

Surely there are likely flaws with the merit system, including that perhaps merit sources could be rotated more frequently, including but not limited to yours truly.. but who is going to determine those things?  Theymos?  Should theymos appoint a Czar to oversee the ways that merits are sent out in order to determine if there might be some better substitutions of merit source members' discretion?  

Is there some other meaningful resolution?  


Nutildah seems to believe that attempts at shaming might be helpful... or other somewhat meaningless whining and/or drama on the largely irrelevant topic might help bring better direction to the topic....



rrrrrrriiiiiiigggggghhhhhttttt    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Nutildah?  Is that uie-pooie behind the glass?

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
philipma1957
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March 02, 2023, 05:32:37 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

at jjg I give a lot of merits out.

many to newbies.

I understand why we sell adds and why we have merit farmers.

Some sections are obviously designed to sell signatures.

But others like this for instance are designed to not have a lot of shit posts to earn coin.

So the farmers look to earn our merits.

I always ask for a one or two week signature vacation  rather than curb merits.

But that will never happen.
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March 02, 2023, 05:36:36 AM
Last edit: March 02, 2023, 05:51:48 AM by JayJuanGee

I go way back I can remember interest in the 70's and 80's at 10%

If you pack btc down via high interest and buy it with a cheap dollar

you could make a lot of wealth or should I say acquire a lot of BTC

Yes.... times were different in the 70s and 80s... So hopefully, you understand that.

@ jjg I am prepared to go up down or sideways are you?

It sounds as if you are suggesting that you are "moar prepared" than I am?

Hopefully each of us is sufficiently and adequately prepared in accordance with our own circumstances... and yeah of course, there might be times in which tweaks might need to be made to account for changes in personal circumstances.

Which part of "prepared" are you wanting to explore?  Hopefully, without getting too much into Opsec, but which part?  Psychological?  Financial?  View of BTC price direction - which might involve macro considerations, momentum or other factors (such as your dumb theories about mining leading price)?  Cashflow management?  risk tolerance (perhaps risk management techniques)?  figuring out where you are at in your bitcoin journey in terms of Accumulation, maintenance, liquidation (or some gradient?) - or how to establish BTC accumulation goals based on personal targets that might be partially considering how many BTC already accumulated as compared to other assets/investments, discussion of timelines, or do you want to go into more advanced skills regarding time, skills and abilities management that might relate to abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way in "our" bitcoin journeys.. including if there might be times in which we might discretionarily consider tweaking our strategies, or maybe even more advance technics of trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or various possible financial instruments?  Or something else that you want to get into.. or all of them?

[edited out]
For me to be in FU status today I need about 110 coins

Sure.. everyone is different in terms of their expectations.. and it is not anything that would be easy to actually suggest that you are wrong in regards to what you believe to be what you "need" which likely would include other assets and cashflow besides BTC.. especially for someone who is older..

@ jjg
My problem is technically I am in FU status as you define it.

But the money coming in is government pensions.

So to replace the pensions and health benefits I would need 2.5-3.0 million worth of BTC.

I doubt that it is necessary to assume that you are ONLY in fuck you status if you assume that your various other cashflow sources (or benefits) were to go to zero, but it seems to be a good practice to account for the possibility that they might go away.. so then instead of placing 100% odds that those will go away (which surely is not true, because aparently you are still getting them, and you expect to get them), it may be realistic to place some probability on those things going away.

Another thing, is that you probably have a variety of other forms of wealth and assets, and sure we don't necessarily need to get into those kinds of particulars, even though in the end, you could end up fucking yourself if you overly prepare for events that are way the fuck less likely to happen than the odds that you are giving them.

Its why I play this game a lot differently than you do.

I doubt that you are "playing this game" that much differently from me or from anyone else, even  if we might have differing factors that we need to calculate, and we might come to differing conclusions regarding how to weigh present values versus potential future values and/or how to sufficiently/adequately prepare for those matters.
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March 02, 2023, 05:58:07 AM

I go way back I can remember interest in the 70's and 80's at 10%

If you pack btc down via high interest and buy it with a cheap dollar

you could make a lot of wealth or should I say acquire a lot of BTC

Yes.... times were different in the 70s and 80s... So hopefully, you understand that.

@ jjg I am prepared to go up down or sideways are you?

It sounds as if you are suggesting that you are "moar prepared" than I am?

Hopefully each of us is sufficiently and adequately prepared in accordance with our own circumstances... and yeah of course, there might be times in which tweaks might need to be made to account for changes in personal circumstances.

Which part of "prepared" are you wanting to explore?  Hopefully, without getting too much into Opsec, but which part?  Psychological?  Financial?  View of BTC price direction - which might involve macro considerations, momentum or other factors (such as your dumb theories about mining leading price)?  Cashflow management?  risk tolerance (perhaps risk management techniques)?  figuring out where you are at in your bitcoin journey in terms of Accumulation, maintenance, liquidation (or some gradient?) - or how to establish BTC accumulation goals based on personal targets that might be partially considering how many BTC already accumulated as compared to other assets/investments, discussion of timelines, or do you want to go into more advanced skills regarding time, skills and abilities management that might relate to abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way in "our" bitcoin journeys.. including if there might be times in which we might discretionarily consider tweaking our strategies, or maybe even more advance technics of trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or various possible financial instruments?  Or something else that you want to get into.. or all of them?

[edited out]
For me to be in FU status today I need about 110 coins

Sure.. everyone is different in terms of their expectations.. and it is not anything that would be easy to actually suggest that you are wrong in regards to what you believe to be what you "need" which likely would include other assets and cashflow besides BTC.. especially for someone who is older..

@ jjg
My problem is technically I am in FU status as you define it.

But the money coming in is government pensions.

So to replace the pensions and health benefits I would need 2.5-3.0 million worth of BTC.

I doubt that it is necessary to assume that you are ONLY in fuck you status if you assume that your various other cashflow sources (or benefits) were to go to zero, but it seems to be a good practice to account for the possibility that they might go away.. so then instead of placing 100% odds that those will go away (which surely is not true, because aparently you are still getting them, and you expect to get them), it may be realistic to place some probability on those things going away.

Another thing, is that you probably have a variety of other forms of wealth and assets, and sure we don't necessarily need to get into those kinds of particulars, even though in the end, you could end up fucking yourself if you overly prepare for events that are way the fuck less likely to happen than the odds that you are giving them.

Its why I play this game a lot differently than you do.

I doubt that you are "playing this game" that much differently from me or from anyone else, even  if we might have differing factors that we need to calculate, and we might come to differing conclusions regarding how to weigh present values versus potential future values and/or how to sufficiently/adequately prepare for those matters.

You can be a royal pain in the ass.

do you think i believe that we will have 5 years of 5% to 7% interest from the fed.

which would not be anywhere near what happened under Nixon Ford Carter then Reagan.

But I am certain that unless they end the Ukraine 🇺🇦 Russia 🇷🇺 war rates will remain high.

Whats high 5-7% till Jan 2025 is likely.

Which means shit news for btc or shitcoins
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March 02, 2023, 06:00:43 AM

at jjg I give a lot of merits out.

many to newbies.

I understand why we sell adds and why we have merit farmers.

Some sections are obviously designed to sell signatures.

But others like this for instance are designed to not have a lot of shit posts to earn coin.

So the farmers look to earn our merits.

I always ask for a one or two week signature vacation  rather than curb merits.

But that will never happen.

Ya can't trick out an old hat  Cool
Signature campaigns are way out of my awareness, since i only hang around in this here parts, with a few posts in 4-5 other threads (over the course of almost six years).
I appreciate clever merit farming, just a little bit. If a newbie posts some good shit i haven't seen yet on Twatter, i would well spend a sMerit. But it's a very rare occasion.

Now to something completely different: We seem to finally have lost our slovenian beggar EXPhorizon's attention?
ChartBuddy's engagement is going to be harder to lose. Maybe just ignore the hourly Bot-posts?
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March 02, 2023, 06:01:20 AM


Explanation
philipma1957
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March 02, 2023, 06:06:14 AM

at jjg I give a lot of merits out.

many to newbies.

I understand why we sell adds and why we have merit farmers.

Some sections are obviously designed to sell signatures.

But others like this for instance are designed to not have a lot of shit posts to earn coin.

So the farmers look to earn our merits.

I always ask for a one or two week signature vacation  rather than curb merits.

But that will never happen.

Ya can't trick out an old hat  Cool
Signature campaigns are way out of my awareness, since i only hang around in this here parts, with a few posts in 4-5 other threads (over the course of almost six years).
I appreciate clever merit farming, just a little bit. If a newbie posts some good shit i haven't seen yet on Twatter, i would well spend a sMerit. But it's a very rare occasion.

Now to something completely different: We seem to finally have lost our slovenian beggar EXPhorizon's attention?
ChartBuddy's engagement is going to be harder to lose. Maybe just ignore the hourly Bot-posts?

I ignored buddy in dec decided to attack his posting totals  in feb . Here we are in march and I am leading him. Have to admit it is tough to do.
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March 02, 2023, 07:01:16 AM


Explanation
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March 02, 2023, 07:26:21 AM


You are right though, I'm a bit disappointed by so much copypasta in the WO recently.  I liked it better without the merit system.


The merit system wasn't established for us to take it too serious, though.
...


That's exactly the point....  If you live in a low income country getting merits can be a very serious thing.  It may provide you at least with a 2nd income the wellbeing of your family might depend on.

I can tell ya, if I lived under such circumstances, I would rather do some posting on Bitcointalk than being exploited in a badly paid and exhausting 3rd world employment.

And that creates some very "motivated" merit farmers.

I don't think any of the older WO participants take Merits very serious.  But merit farmers do, for sure

+1 WOsMerit

I was completely blind for these poverty / forum rank / signature campaign aspects, man.
Thanks for shedding a light.

frankly... I'm only about 70% sure that your post is not meant sarcastically ...

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March 02, 2023, 08:01:15 AM


Explanation
Gachapin
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March 02, 2023, 08:30:52 AM
Last edit: March 02, 2023, 08:52:35 AM by Gachapin

[edited out]
I considered telling your second point to JJG,

.. and I surely have my doubts about the supposed "downfall" of this thread.. blah blah blah due to the merit system or whatever...

Overall, we have pretty damned decent posts in this thread and even other parts of the forum since the implementation of the merit system.


I think you exaggerate a bit.  There is no downfall of this thread. But surely the shitposters have changed  (...and I mean the real ones, not the regular WO shitposting crowd)

Back in the days they were at least reading the WO and you could have some pretty intense talks with them... fwiw to talk to Stolfi or roach  
... more like real human interaction .... and no, I don't necessarily mean humane  Cheesy

Many farmers don't read anything, not even the replies to their own posts.  I have my doubts that all of these posts are done by humans.

And I think they don't have even 1% of the same AI bot quality as BTC Network's JJG-BotTM




Surely there are likely flaws with the merit system, including that perhaps merit sources could be rotated more frequently, including but not limited to yours truly.. but who is going to determine those things?  Theymos?  Should theymos appoint a Czar to oversee the ways that merits are sent out in order to determine if there might be some better substitutions of merit source members' discretion?  

Is there some other meaningful resolution?  

I think it's good as it is with regards to merit sources.
However equipping farmers with merits might feel to some a bit like upvoting scammers.




Nutildah seems to believe that attempts at shaming might be helpful... or other somewhat meaningless whining and/or drama on the largely irrelevant topic might help bring better direction to the topic....

rrrrrrriiiiiiigggggghhhhhttttt    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

No need to feel shameful  Cheesy

But encouraging farmers' activity with merits will change the experience for WO readers...  and I just wouldn't want to see a future where half of my beloved WO consists of sowed farmer posts...


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March 02, 2023, 08:45:16 AM

Come on, philipma1957!  Kick Chartbuddy's digital butt!



thanks for the support.

trying to top him is tough first day in we are tied 22 to 22.

I need a post or 2 to reply to or we may just tie.


should we call your phone every hour so you wont miss any slots?

Since I already gave too much room to the farmer bot topic JJG will probably agree, I will rest my case by announcing my full support of Phil's endeavour fighting Buddy and any other bot with bare hands...  

May he be victorious in the battle of humans against the machines
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