Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2019, 04:49:09 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: What year will we achieve a new ATH?
2019 - 42 (28.2%)
2020 - 59 (39.6%)
2021 - 34 (22.8%)
2022 - 8 (5.4%)
2023 - 1 (0.7%)
Never - 5 (3.4%)
Total Voters: 149

Pages: « 1 ... 20560 20561 20562 20563 20564 20565 20566 20567 20568 20569 20570 20571 20572 20573 20574 20575 20576 20577 20578 20579 20580 20581 20582 20583 20584 20585 20586 20587 20588 20589 20590 20591 20592 20593 20594 20595 20596 20597 20598 20599 20600 20601 20602 20603 20604 20605 20606 20607 20608 20609 [20610] 20611 20612 20613 20614 20615 20616 20617 20618 20619 20620 20621 20622 20623 20624 20625 20626 20627 20628 20629 20630 20631 20632 20633 20634 20635 20636 20637 20638 20639 20640 20641 20642 20643 20644 20645 20646 20647 20648 20649 20650 20651 20652 20653 20654 20655 20656 20657 20658 20659 20660 ... 23960 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21179614 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (24 posts by 13 users deleted.)
Anon136
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1210



View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:14:48 PM
Merited by cAPSLOCK (2)

Question I have been a bit scared to ask because people here jump down your throat if you dare be different.

If lightening introduces cheaper/free-like transactions? wont that diminish the value/volume of expensive(price driving) bitcoin transactions on the main chain?

I have thought enough about this to have some things to say. I'll add more later if I can think of more.

The bitcoin blockchain is an immutable eternal database. You can store something in there and be confident that that information will be stored forever. That is crazy useful. Property titles, ownership tokens, other blockchains will offer this of course, but bitcoin will always be the most ideal place.

Also we can always just not increase the block size, ever, until we feel like miners are more than fairly compensated through transaction fees and all models predict that a modest increase in block size will still reatain adequate network security. In fact we can base our decisions about when to increase the block size on no consideration other than security. I personally feel that everything else is secondary.

Also I don't think there is a world where lightning gets to the point where it isn't unjustifiably cumbersome for large transactions. Nation states that want to use bitcoin as an alternative to SWIFT will probably find the blockchain it's self to be the place to do something like that. So there will still always be a marginal demand for on chain transactions.
1558802949
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558802949

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558802949
Reply with quote  #2

1558802949
Report to moderator
GET 25 FREE SPINS AT REGISTRATION
GET 100% BONUS ON FIRST DEPOSIT
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
mattimann
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 245
Merit: 103



View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:16:10 PM

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg924%2F9413%2FhvRJYv.png&t=589&c=o6VL0oo1z__l6g


Just one year ago...
We´re doing fine. Who was not really expecting to come down again after 20K?
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2198
Merit: 1332


UNLEASH THE FURY!


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:18:51 PM

you guys think  this was the bottom?

No.
Roccker
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 223
Merit: 108


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:27:17 PM

Am out of fiat now, bought every time it went under 8k..
mikenz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 211
Merit: 100


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:28:07 PM

Its awesome! Who else made $$ shorting all the way down?



Welcome!!
Globb0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1327


Per securitatem consilio


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:29:06 PM

Question I have been a bit scared to ask because people here jump down your throat if you dare be different.

If lightening introduces cheaper/free-like transactions? wont that diminish the value/volume of expensive(price driving) bitcoin transactions on the main chain?

I have thought enough about this to have some things to say. I'll add more later if I can think of more.

The bitcoin blockchain is an immutable eternal database. You can store something in there and be confident that that information will be stored forever. That is crazy useful. Property titles, ownership tokens, other blockchains will offer this of course, but bitcoin will always be the most ideal place.

Also we can always just not increase the block size, ever, until we feel like miners are more than fairly compensated through transaction fees and all models predict that a modest increase in block size will still reatain adequate network security. In fact we can base our decisions about when to increase the block size on no consideration other than security. I personally feel that everything else is secondary.

Also I don't think there is a world where lightning gets to the point where it isn't unjustifiably cumbersome for large transactions. Nation states that want to use bitcoin as an alternative to SWIFT will probably find the blockchain it's self to be the place to do something like that. So there will still always be a marginal demand for on chain transactions.

Thanks for taking the time to try and help me understand

d_eddie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 576



View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:44:52 PM

More FUD. Academics. Perfect timing.

Bitcoin's 2017 Rise Was Market Manipulation By Tether: Study
https://www.investopedia.com/news/bitcoins-2017-rise-was-market-manipulation-tether-study/
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2198
Merit: 1332


UNLEASH THE FURY!


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 09:46:48 PM

Question I have been a bit scared to ask because people here jump down your throat if you dare be different.

If lightening introduces cheaper/free-like transactions? wont that diminish the value/volume of expensive(price driving) bitcoin transactions on the main chain?

I have thought enough about this to have some things to say. I'll add more later if I can think of more.

The bitcoin blockchain is an immutable eternal database. You can store something in there and be confident that that information will be stored forever. That is crazy useful. Property titles, ownership tokens, other blockchains will offer this of course, but bitcoin will always be the most ideal place.

Also we can always just not increase the block size, ever, until we feel like miners are more than fairly compensated through transaction fees and all models predict that a modest increase in block size will still reatain adequate network security. In fact we can base our decisions about when to increase the block size on no consideration other than security. I personally feel that everything else is secondary.

Also I don't think there is a world where lightning gets to the point where it isn't unjustifiably cumbersome for large transactions. Nation states that want to use bitcoin as an alternative to SWIFT will probably find the blockchain it's self to be the place to do something like that. So there will still always be a marginal demand for on chain transactions.

It's about choices, IMO.  

Much of the ideals we early bitcoiners have lauded are not something that all of humanity can share without there being a tremendous amount of personal responsibility.  Probably an unreasonable amount.

For example:  Banks.

Hang around here and you will read many saying GET RID OF 'EM.   But the fact is we will always need them.  At least some people will.  And layer 2 lets us build the services that the new "banks" will use to offer us value for letting them put their paws on our money.  Here is something we are hearing said a lot recently: "Custodial services".  Not everyone has the ability or desire to do the sort of opsec to safeguard deep amounts of value in crypto.  And even the more savvy like (dare i say) many of us would benefit from a nice liquid place to lock up some liquid money for spending and moving around.

Layer 1 plus layer 2 gives me the option to be responsible for the mass of my wealth privately, while directing some of it into channels that may look a little like banks... or perhaps less distributed.

Lightning gives us a choice.    I like that.
d_eddie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700
Merit: 576



View Profile
June 13, 2018, 10:03:23 PM

In other news, shorters take the blame.

https://www.marketwatch.com/Story/heres-why-bitcoin-is-fallingand-it-isnt-just-the-coinrail-exchange-hack-2018-06-13
micgoossens
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 700
Merit: 2019


Be safe, Elwar and Nadia !!


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 10:09:47 PM



NEWS FOR YOU     ITS YOUR DATE    Shocked  Roll Eyes  Grin

QUICK list 12288 is finisht GOOD LUCK   WO's

16/04/2018 serveria.com Sad
27/04/2018 BinaryReign Sad
28/04/2018 Toxic2040 Sad
29/04/2018 BobLawblaw Sad
30/04/2018 RayX12 Sad
05/05/2018 kaicrypzen Sad
07/05/2018 InvoKing Sad
08/05/2018 ChinkyEyes Sad
13/05/2018 mfort312 Sad
15/05/2018 Paashaas Sad
16/05/2018 player99 Sad
17/05/2018 bikerleszno Sad
19/05/2018 Bitcoinaire Sad
20/05/2018 willope Sad
21/05/2018 rafanadal Sad
22/05/2018 strawbs Sad
24/05/2018 yonton Sad
25/05/2018 JimboToronto Sad
26/05/2018 Colonel Panic Sad
29/05/2018 ivomm Sad
30/05/2018 Lontonbit Sad
31/05/2018 BTCMILLIONAIRE Sad
01/06/2018 RoomBot Sad
02/06/2018 rjclarke2000 Sad
03/06/2018 oblox Sad
04/06/2018 wachtwoord Sad
05/06/2018 Wekkel Sad
08/06/2018 hisslyness Sad
09/06/2018 LodisMcguire Sad
11/06/2018 Raja_MBZ Sad
12/06/2018 bitcoinPsycho Sad
13/06/2018 erre Sad
14/06/2018 vroom Sad
15/06/2018 d_eddie
16/06/2018 coralreefer
18/06/2018 Robin,Hood
20/06/2018 rolling
22/06/2018 Biodom
23/06/2018 Dunkelheit667
25/06/2018 bones261
26/06/2018 Arriemoller
28/06/2018 klaaas
30/06/2018 DarkStar_
01/07/2018 o_e_l_e_o
02/07/2018 jojo69
03/07/2018 Karatma1
04/07/2018 Elwar
13/07/2018 sirazimuth
14/07/2018 Ludwig Von
21/07/2018 Lauda
22/07/2018 LFC_Bitcoin
26/07/2018 Icygreen
02/08/2018 fragout
03/08/2018 supremnoob
06/08/2018 cAPSLOCK
08/08/2018 infofront
10/08/2018 HairyMaclairy
15/08/2018 Phil_S
16/08/2018 Rosewater Foundation
17/08/2018 B1tUnl0ck3r
19/08/2018 Imbatman
21/08/2018 BitcoinBunny
27/08/2018 soullyG
28/08/2018 RealMachasm
29/08/2018 STT
04/09/2018 flynn
08/09/2018 xhomerx10
09/09/2018 vapourminer
11/09/2018 Dakustaking76
20/09/2018 Digigami
22/09/2018 Agapios
26/09/2018 itod
30/09/2018 DeathAngel
12/10/2018 IntroVert
15/10/2018 explorer
18/10/2018 Searing
26/10/2018 kurious
09/11/2018 fabiorem
15/11/2018 bitserve
20/11/2018 Globb0
22/11/2018 Last of the V8s
01/12/2018 Alexander_Z
07/03/2019 CoinCube
15/04/2019 Spaceman_Spiff_Original
20/06/2019 bitebits
13/12/2019 nikauforest
10/04/2020 yefi
05/09/2020 samson   
23/06/2021 fortune143             
mymenace
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1061


Smile


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 10:24:24 PM

I just ran into this. This is so stupid.




I'm so tired of all of this ignorant anti lighting network rhetoric that I keep hearing and seeing constantly. Do you guys think Ver is funding this BS. It feels like there is just too much of it for it to be organic.


P.S. Do you guys feel this is on topic enough for the wall observer thread. It's not about jews at least... but it's exactly about the price either... I just wanted a place to rant where it would actually be read and it is about bitcoin atleast...
Not enough talk of jello wrestling and asses, I say delete it.

Distributed is the new centralization


A lot of think tanks have worked out they can still manipulate if they run a distributed program and know we now hate centralization (anything centralized)


So now the fear starts as to why distributed programs are "SAFE" and "SECURE" for you


example
an australian bitcoin voting party announced Direct Democracy
you vote on each policy
then all of a sudden it changed from
Direct (Decentralized) Vs. Indirect Distribution (Centralized)
http://www.youngupstarts.com/2017/09/04/direct-vs-indirect-distribution/

run away from the flux party

you can call them out now, go have fun



Remember lightning network is just the same as your credit card, atm, visa mastercard network

a faster payment system on top of the banks

keep it simple and decentralized no worries

RayX12
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 551


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 10:26:37 PM

Someone said:

Be greedy when others are fearful!

Buy Buy Buy Bitcoin.

DonQuijote
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1524
Merit: 1002


♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ < ♛♚&#


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 10:33:35 PM

Someone said:

Be greedy when others are fearful!

Buy Buy Buy Bitcoin.


since 19k $ Huh
its not the dip
jojo69
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1746


no FOMO


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 11:12:37 PM
Merited by paxmao (1)

Miners won't let the price fall to 5000.
This is only one aspect to the manipulation that’s been going on since September. However if you look at the hash rate, it’s trending upwards, almost parabolically. This is because asic miners are in excess and they can ship them out much faster than last year, when demand was at ATH. Coupled with strange miner confidence in bitcoin which I cannot explain. Even if you ignore hashrate increase, assume miners do not leave bitcoin, and look at the price vs. block difficulty by the end of the year, profitability approaches 0 in all cases from 7500-10000. If miners switch, it can alleviate this pressure, but who will be leaving and who can afford to weather this storm currently? Big farms are more economical than small miners. It seems like an effort to weed out small miners and their coins, while centralizing mining, all while they can make money by liquidating people on longs/shorts. If it wasn’t a manipulated market I wouldn’t believe this, but it seems likely. I welcome regulations and investigations into market manipulation. After all, exchanges are the only ones who can see real volume.

People don't seem to understand that miners can and will mine at a loss.  The only real limit is that it be cheaper than other forms of money laundering.
SpiryGolden
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812
Merit: 500



View Profile
June 13, 2018, 11:23:31 PM

This bounce will be fun to watch. It would be the 3rd. But a lot of people don't like to watch it macro and don't see the over-sold triggers all over the place.
kingcolex
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848
Merit: 1144


Anonymous bitcoin mixer


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Merited by paxmao (1)

Miners won't let the price fall to 5000.
This is only one aspect to the manipulation that’s been going on since September. However if you look at the hash rate, it’s trending upwards, almost parabolically. This is because asic miners are in excess and they can ship them out much faster than last year, when demand was at ATH. Coupled with strange miner confidence in bitcoin which I cannot explain. Even if you ignore hashrate increase, assume miners do not leave bitcoin, and look at the price vs. block difficulty by the end of the year, profitability approaches 0 in all cases from 7500-10000. If miners switch, it can alleviate this pressure, but who will be leaving and who can afford to weather this storm currently? Big farms are more economical than small miners. It seems like an effort to weed out small miners and their coins, while centralizing mining, all while they can make money by liquidating people on longs/shorts. If it wasn’t a manipulated market I wouldn’t believe this, but it seems likely. I welcome regulations and investigations into market manipulation. After all, exchanges are the only ones who can see real volume.

People don't seem to understand that miners can and will mine at a loss.  The only real limit is that it be cheaper than other forms of money laundering.
Yeah Bitmain is about to go public, it helps a lot to go public as a profitable company with high demand for it's products, a fall below mining cost kills buying and their revenue. They won't let that happen right now.
BobLawblaw
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1911


BitcoinTalk's Most Fabulously Gay Black Power-Top


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 11:29:35 PM
Merited by Globb0 (2), Karartma1 (1), Anon136 (1), paxmao (1)

If lightening introduces cheaper/free-like transactions? wont that diminish the value/volume of expensive(price driving) bitcoin transactions on the main chain?

Lightning Network payments are capped at an upper bound. I believe it's something like 0.05 BTC maximum, per transaction, at the moment.

It's great for micropayments, but if you want to send someone more than 0.05 BTC, you're better off using Bitcoin proper.

For now at least.



I just ran into this. This is so stupid.

No shit it can't look like the one on the right. The one on the right is the problem. That's what bitcoin looks like right now and it's the reason why it doesn't scale.

What Lightning ACTUALLY looks like.


https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/

We're in good hands.
Raja_MBZ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 843


Be safe, Elwar & Nadia!


View Profile
June 13, 2018, 11:52:31 PM

I'm very disheartened today. Lost a major chunk of my bitcoin holdings (almost 0.38 BTC) on Bitmex even though I've been longing since $8000 with just 4x leverage (adding more & more after every dump to average it further down), but still at $6140, I got liquidated. With this, I can pretty much assure that $6140 was actually the bottom. It was only to liquidate me, hard luck. Don't comment that I need to risk only what I can afford to lose, I know that very well, just had some real bad luck (as well as confusion) this time.

what does this mean?

This means:

1. register on Bitmex
2. deposit bitcoin
3. choose at least 10x leverage and go long (right now at $6500)
4. get your bitcoin doubled when bitcoin reaches $7500

I take this advice completely back. I'm not going to open that website ever again. Probably a URL which I'll hate the most after LibertyReserve.com.

Miners won't let the price fall to 5000.
This is only one aspect to the manipulation that’s been going on since September. However if you look at the hash rate, it’s trending upwards, almost parabolically. This is because asic miners are in excess and they can ship them out much faster than last year, when demand was at ATH. Coupled with strange miner confidence in bitcoin which I cannot explain. Even if you ignore hashrate increase, assume miners do not leave bitcoin, and look at the price vs. block difficulty by the end of the year, profitability approaches 0 in all cases from 7500-10000. If miners switch, it can alleviate this pressure, but who will be leaving and who can afford to weather this storm currently? Big farms are more economical than small miners. It seems like an effort to weed out small miners and their coins, while centralizing mining, all while they can make money by liquidating people on longs/shorts. If it wasn’t a manipulated market I wouldn’t believe this, but it seems likely. I welcome regulations and investigations into market manipulation. After all, exchanges are the only ones who can see real volume.

People don't seem to understand that miners can and will mine at a loss.  The only real limit is that it be cheaper than other forms of money laundering.

True. Moreover, increasing hash-rate doesn't necessarily mean that the number of miners is increasing, it might also be due to the newer versions of Bitmain now available in the market with greatly improved efficiency.
regent4
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 1


View Profile WWW
June 13, 2018, 11:56:52 PM

Update.  https://i.imgur.com/xRIRPLv.png

Still has major support levels.  HODL

Analysis here. http://blockchainshowdown.blogspot.com/2018/06/btc-usd-june-14-2018.html
pacman7331
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 66

Buy Populous World’s XAUp Poken


View Profile
June 14, 2018, 12:14:58 AM
Merited by Jayjay04 (50)

6k is bottom. Gonna just go out on a limb and say we won’t see sub 6k coins.



Some buy volume coming in.

Hit the edge of the descending wedge

Pages: « 1 ... 20560 20561 20562 20563 20564 20565 20566 20567 20568 20569 20570 20571 20572 20573 20574 20575 20576 20577 20578 20579 20580 20581 20582 20583 20584 20585 20586 20587 20588 20589 20590 20591 20592 20593 20594 20595 20596 20597 20598 20599 20600 20601 20602 20603 20604 20605 20606 20607 20608 20609 [20610] 20611 20612 20613 20614 20615 20616 20617 20618 20619 20620 20621 20622 20623 20624 20625 20626 20627 20628 20629 20630 20631 20632 20633 20634 20635 20636 20637 20638 20639 20640 20641 20642 20643 20644 20645 20646 20647 20648 20649 20650 20651 20652 20653 20654 20655 20656 20657 20658 20659 20660 ... 23960 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!