Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bkbirge]

I intend to keep buying. That is all.

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[erre]

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

Yep.  Especially if you poke them by engaging in arguably illegal conduct.  Go figure?

Thailand decided unilaterally it was "illegal" to threat their sovereignty and that elwar and his wife should die for death penalty. They physically removed the "threat" posed in international waters using war boats and even arrested people who helped in the construction. This potentially deathly aggression was decided without the aid of any international institution.

China is making military bases on artificial islands in international waters, and this seems to be fine (or at least debatable) for international law.

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies. Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to be in control.
Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I intend to keep buying. That is all.

Just loading my laptop up to buy £800 more. Keep stacking those sats boys!

[makrospex]

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies. Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to in control.
Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

Individual freedom is a threat to every authoritative system. In Austria, early this year, 24 members of the self called "state league" were arrested, because they didn't obey to the government. Many preppers amongst them, almost all with rightist political orientation. Groups like this were forbidden by law in the process of crushing it.
I don't think freedom is possible easily on earth, at least it could become a nightmare without proper ethical rules, which in turn would not allow individuals to be really "free". There were some important psychological-ethical discussion that all came to the conclusion that freedom is impossible to achieve in societies, primarily because social relationships are based on dependencies. Also, love, for example, wouldn't be possible without (inter)dependency.

[UnDerDoG81]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Btw..... one of my best friends is a salesman for BMW, yesterday they had an inspection, they asked where is the gender-neutral restroom......
They didn’t have one.... the guy said better provide one it will be obligated!

Where the F*** are we going at 

It's just (one) result of sick human minds.
Bad news is, we all have this sickness, buddhists call this part of our mind "the ego", which makes us vulnerable to hysteria.
If we continue like that, crippling common sense, we will end up pretty bad as society.

All I need is a few million bucks so I get to choose my own society of healthy people.

Poor fucks will have to interact with those sick people every day, like I have been doing for nearly 10 years...

In Thailand the roles seem still intact. Men make money and bring food home, women take care of children and cook. When I will be rich one day I think Thailand could be a nice place to live.

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

I know, that's why you never show you have cash. Btw. modern western cheating women cost more than honest Asian women. Of course you should not Pick up a bargirl. Women in general became pretty dangerous these days. İ prefer seeing hookers once or twice a week. Cost me less then a GF. Works like charm for a year now. And you bang damn hot chicks you never would get as a GF. At least me.

[erre]

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies. Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to in control.
Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

Individual freedom is a threat to every authoritative system. In Austria, early this year, 24 members of the self called "state league" were arrested, because they didn't obey to the government. Many preppers amongst them, almost all with rightist political orientation. Groups like this were forbidden by law in the process of crushing it.
I don't think freedom is possible easily on earth, at least it could become a nightmare without proper ethical rules, which in turn would not allow individuals to be really "free". There were some important psychological-ethical discussion that all came to the conclusion that freedom is impossible to achieve in societies, primarily because social relationships are based on dependencies. Also, love, for example, wouldn't be possible without (inter)dependency.

Freedom or anarchy are not the absence of rules. All models of anarchy (I.e. chomsky's anarcho-syndacalism) require people to collaborate on the base of rules and common ethic.
But you are free to left the society if you don't like the rules or you think they are not ethical.

I'm not a tinyfoil hat type, but it's clear that we are going in the direction of governments regulating every aspect of life everywhere, they have the will and, for the first time in history, the means to do it.

That's ok if I like the rules, but if I don't like them I have no place to go anymore. In an hundred years the word could become a totalitarian fascist state in a 1984-like  fashion, all we need is a couple wars and people stop fighting for their freedom.

Using btc you have rules (the protocol) which you have to agree if you want to participate, but you can refuse to use bitcoin or fork it if you don't like the rules. But you can't opt-out of state rules or fork the society, and this lead to criminality and conflicts.

Elwar was basically forking, and we should be able to do it.

[erre]

Double post

[Searing]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Btw..... one of my best friends is a salesman for BMW, yesterday they had an inspection, they asked where is the gender-neutral restroom......
They didn’t have one.... the guy said better provide one it will be obligated!

Where the F*** are we going at 

It's just (one) result of sick human minds.
Bad news is, we all have this sickness, buddhists call this part of our mind "the ego", which makes us vulnerable to hysteria.
If we continue like that, crippling common sense, we will end up pretty bad as society.

All I need is a few million bucks so I get to choose my own society of healthy people.

Poor fucks will have to interact with those sick people every day, like I have been doing for nearly 10 years...

In Thailand the roles seem still intact. Men make money and bring food home, women take care of children and cook. When I will be rich one day I think Thailand could be a nice place to live.

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

I bow to your hard-won 'expertise' on this matter.  You are damn lucky to have made it out after your ordeal. I hope all is well and calm in your life these days.

brad

[El duderino_]

re: My desire to take some profits during this volatility. I'll do 10 corns @ 10k USD regardless, to take a bit of "pressure" off. Sorry for the hmming-and-hawwing back-and-forth on pondering decisions, out-loud.

I can't remember who, maybe all of you guys here from WO, saved me last year. I was desperate to sell at the dip, but I was able to see the light and hold it.

Emotions are investor's worse enemy. You know this is not a good time to sell . I am with LFC_bitcoin, not selling before 15k!!

Things maybe in trouble in your personal life, even with a comfortable financial situation. Don't let this interfere with your financial planning.

Boy, good the Wall Observer is here yet again....
It has saved you from selling the DIP, now its saving you from selling at the basement area from the next run up....

Please if one does not trade or doesn't do stupid things, then why sell at a fixed price.

1 rule = Is your feeling with holding your money in BTC comfortable? If yes then don't sell.

2 rule = Is your back not against the wall and d o you have an income to live from, then keep stacking them sats when you can.

3 rule = Try to live with BTC and maybe threat it on its price of that day, the price tomorrow isn't sure, we can (I do) believe in a very good and positive outcome BUT nothing is 100% sure, so when if you have an income that provides your needs then don't be bothered and keep saving in BTC, when you want or need something that your normal income can't provide anymore or you need to buy something expensive then just sell some coins.... but for those that are still young, why really target prices, just enjoy the BULL when its there and if needed then change some if not keep saving in sats cause it is the better money

[JayJuanGee]

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

Yep.  Especially if you poke them by engaging in arguably illegal conduct.  Go figure?

Thailand decided unilaterally it was "illegal" to threat their sovereignty and that elwar and his wife should die for death penalty. They physically removed the "threat" posed in international waters using war boats and even arrested people who helped in the construction. This potentially deathly aggression was decided without the aid of any international institution.

China is making military bases on artificial islands in international waters, and this seems to be fine (or at least debatable) for international law.

Oh I am starting to see.  Individuals like Elwar should be able to just state his territory anywhere he likes, even if he does not have an armed forces to back him up... and nation states should just roll over and allow that?

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies.

Good luck asserting your freedom to build anywhere that you like and to assert your area as your own sovereign territory.

Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to be in control.

O.k.  So individuals are equal to states.  Hm?

Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

You think that these are the same?  Good luck with that.

It seems to me that bitcoin is a bit of a different kind of thing, and can only be successful through a decently long time building of resilience and attack resistance.  You better be a lot more coy if you think that you are going to be able to make any kind of seastead that even comes close to the potential resilience of BTC. 

Surely bitcoin is not a guaranteed success either, and in its beginning, there was a bit of luck that building was done without a lot of scrutiny, and so the current state of bitcoin is quite a bit harder to attack than it would have been in its first few years of existence.  At the same time, there appears to be millions and millions of people buying into bitcoin and developing various systems around it, which surely contribute to its resilience. 

Personally, I feel a lot more comfortable with my investment in bitcoin and even various kinds of liquidity than I would to attempt to make some kind of ideological stance and to put myself out there in a seasteading context in order that I could get hammered down, imprisoned or killed like you already acknowledged to be a real threat.  We only live so long, and surely there are going to be guys (and gals) who are going to be braver than others in terms of putting their bodies on the line.  I personally would not equate that individuals investing into bitcoin are having to put their bodies on the line in the same kind of way to both support bitcoin and to invest various kinds of value into it, including time, sweat equity and money.  So, in that regard, your attempted comparison of seasteading to bitcoin seems a bit off base.

[bkbirge]

O.k.  So individuals are equal to states.  Hm?

Haha! Sure why not, apparently corporations are people now.

Sea-steading is an awesome idea but it's probably more workable right now by being under a nation's protection instead of parking just outside their border and declaring yourself a tax-free zone. Of course the former costs a lot more upfront and likely requires a pretty big organization to get the right momentum, whereas anyone with enough money can do the latter but are likely in for a lot more regulatory pain. Glad Elwar and his wife escaped with their lives and I support the concept.

[d_eddie]

Trading disclosure for peeps who are interested.

My short is very happy now! Unfortunately, I haven't managed to make it even with the long after yesterday's minidump. And I've been too timid in general. I should have made it much larger than the long - even double! With a tight stop on only half of it (evening it out with the long in case of a ramp up, but keeping it nicely plump if/while she kept going down). Well, hindsight is 20/20. I would have been even happier now, and I could have closed both positions with a net profit.

As it is now I'm still in the game, but it will take one more bounce up to make me whole - or some more risk on the short - which at this relatively low price, I'm unwilling to take.

What do you mean by "make me whole"?   Are you valuing your situation in fiat?  If you made some profits from BTC's price going down and you have accumulated some more BTC from BTC's price going down, then relatively speaking, you are better off from BTC's price going down than guys like me who are merely engaging in longs only.

I'm valuing my situation in btc only. The matter is I've got an open long that is hurting. The short being as much as the short, my actual margin situation is stationary: I can't actually gain anything unless I cash some short (which I have, but not that much) AND the corn goes back up at least a little. The situation would have been better if I'd inflated the short in the ballpark of 2x the long - or at least to a larger size than the long. In that case, I would sit on larger profits and could cash out 1/2 of the short position and get even - or even more and be net positive, so closing both legs would leave me in the green. I was too wimpy to do that, because of my discomfort with shorting the corn.

Thus, my whole networth has gone down about the 70% or more as much as BTC's price drop to the amount of my number of BTC's

Same here! Same for all hodlers, actually. All my trading only happens with a small fraction of my btc holdings - the "play stash" or play money - and I only refer to that small fraction whenever I report the whereabouts of my trades.

I do buy physical once in a while - when I can or feel like it, and without a steady ladder or DCA approach. I reserve most of my cool head thinking for my trading, and treat physical btc purchases as impulse buys (well, I do wait for dips of course )

consider what ignored JJG has to say

hahahahaha  

I kind of like this moniker... In my thinking, the only way to improve it would be to add a few more adjectives such as "[the nosey pain-in-the-ass no homo] ignored JJG".  

Don't get too nosy, or someone could call Batman upon YOU.  

[d_eddie]

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

Yep.  Especially if you poke them by engaging in arguably illegal conduct.  Go figure?

Thailand decided unilaterally it was "illegal" to threat their sovereignty and that elwar and his wife should die for death penalty. They physically removed the "threat" posed in international waters using war boats and even arrested people who helped in the construction. This potentially deathly aggression was decided without the aid of any international institution.

China is making military bases on artificial islands in international waters, and this seems to be fine (or at least debatable) for international law.

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies. Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to be in control.
Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

Your words resonate with me. You made me think of Raven - that character in Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash that has independent nation status only because he goes around toting a nuclear weapon.

[JSRAW]

Thanks v8 , ed, mic, jjg, lfc, vapourminer, lambie , italian sttalion, jojo, vroom,nutilduh,Pamoldar, Hueristic, xhomer, info,mindrust and everyone. It means you too roachie 

[El duderino_]

Thanks v8 , ed

Hey congrats man !!!!!

[d_eddie]

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

Yep.  Especially if you poke them by engaging in arguably illegal conduct.  Go figure?

Elwar laid his seasted OUTSIDE the territorial waters. What the Thai govt did was a unilateral move not explicitly granted by the specifics of international law.

oooooooo
am being slow here
is that why they came after Elwar
not because sovereignty issues
but because they heard you were an OG coiner

Hahahahahaha

What a convenient spin.  

I don't think V8 is way off. The truth probably lies in the middle. If it came down to an arrest, I'm sure Elwar's stash could have helped with milder sentencing or even getting away with it entirely, depending on the complexity of the situation or the degree of corruption of the relevant Thai officials.

Oh I am starting to see.  Individuals like Elwar should be able to just state his territory anywhere he likes, even if he does not have an armed forces to back him up... and nation states should just roll over and allow that?

-snip-

O.k.  So individuals are equal to states.  Hm?

Well, Raven in Snow Crash was. The matter is, he had a nice toy to ease the opponent's compliance to international law. What would have happened if Elwar had a few nuclear missiles auto-activated by hostile fire? It's just like the constitutional right to own a firearm, only taken into the international arena. As erre pointed out, China's building not seasteds but outirght war stations in the sea, and no one says a word. I don't support or even condone the insane arms race we're witnessing, but what international law eventually boils down to is who's got the biggest dick.

China is making military bases on artificial islands in international waters, and this seems to be fine (or at least debatable) for international law.

Sorry for the OT rant. Well, partially OT since it contains the word bitcoin (you just read it didn't you?). It's that these things really trigger me.

[realr0ach]

[JayJuanGee]

Trading disclosure for peeps who are interested.

My short is very happy now! Unfortunately, I haven't managed to make it even with the long after yesterday's minidump. And I've been too timid in general. I should have made it much larger than the long - even double! With a tight stop on only half of it (evening it out with the long in case of a ramp up, but keeping it nicely plump if/while she kept going down). Well, hindsight is 20/20. I would have been even happier now, and I could have closed both positions with a net profit.

As it is now I'm still in the game, but it will take one more bounce up to make me whole - or some more risk on the short - which at this relatively low price, I'm unwilling to take.

What do you mean by "make me whole"?   Are you valuing your situation in fiat?  If you made some profits from BTC's price going down and you have accumulated some more BTC from BTC's price going down, then relatively speaking, you are better off from BTC's price going down than guys like me who are merely engaging in longs only.

I'm valuing my situation in btc only. The matter is I've got an open long that is hurting. The short being as much as the short, my actual margin situation is stationary: I can't actually gain anything unless I cash some short (which I have, but not that much) AND the corn goes back up at least a little. The situation would have been better if I'd inflated the short in the ballpark of 2x the long - or at least to a larger size than the long. In that case, I would sit on larger profits and could cash out 1/2 of the short position and get even - or even more and be net positive, so closing both legs would leave me in the green. I was too wimpy to do that, because of my discomfort with shorting the corn.

O.k.  That makes sense.  I am sure that there can be some fun in the "living and learning" situation, and even attempting to figure out ways in which you can be consistently more profitable...   

Thus, my whole networth has gone down about the 70% or more as much as BTC's price drop to the amount of my number of BTC's

Same here! Same for all hodlers, actually. All my trading only happens with a small fraction of my btc holdings - the "play stash" or play money - and I only refer to that small fraction whenever I report the whereabouts of my trades.

Yep.... Maybe in the end, we are on similar grounds when the vast majority of our BTC holdings is in the background in HODL status rather than playing around with it?
 

I do buy physical once in a while - when I can or feel like it, and without a steady ladder approach. I reserve most of my cool head thinking for my trading, and treat physical btc purchases as impulse buys (well, I do wait for dips of course )

 Makes sense.   

When we were mostly staying above $10k for a long time, I had scheduled several extra buy orders (like injecting more cash into the system) in the $9.4k to $10k range, with some ponderings about whether I should just market buy at higher prices or to just let matters play out, in terms of a potential BTC price drop, and surely we now know how that played out.  Every single one of my extra orders were executed.  So, it ended up that I wasn't being overly conservative, go figure. 

consider what ignored JJG has to say

hahahahaha  

I kind of like this moniker... In my thinking, the only way to improve it would be to add a few more adjectives such as "[the nosey pain-in-the-ass no homo] ignored JJG".  

Don't get too nosy, or someone could call Batman upon YOU.  

Yep.  None of us are immuned.  What comes around goes around. 

 

[JayJuanGee]

Stay away from Thailand.

They will try to get your money by giving you a choice between death, life in Thai prison (a fate worse than death) or all of your bitcoin.

The lucky get out while they can.

Yep.  Especially if you poke them by engaging in arguably illegal conduct.  Go figure?

Elwar laid his seasted OUTSIDE the territorial waters. What the Thai govt did was a unilateral move not explicitly granted by the specifics of international law.

O.k.  So maybe Elwar should make a claim in front of the International Tribunal for Human Rights?  Good luck with winning a verdict, but if the law is on his side, he might be able to prevail.

oooooooo
am being slow here
is that why they came after Elwar
not because sovereignty issues
but because they heard you were an OG coiner

Hahahahahaha

What a convenient spin.  

I don't think V8 is way off. The truth probably lies in the middle. If it came down to an arrest, I'm sure Elwar's stash could have helped with milder sentencing or even getting away with it entirely, depending on the complexity of the situation or the degree of corruption of the relevant Thai officials.

 I thought that I was agreeing with V8 and suggesting that Elwar was trying to spin matters in terms of how many rights he is proclaiming to have.  Seems to me that you are going to have a hard time fighting any state on these kinds of matters, even if the actual location happens to be outside of their official boundaries.

Oh I am starting to see.  Individuals like Elwar should be able to just state his territory anywhere he likes, even if he does not have an armed forces to back him up... and nation states should just roll over and allow that?

-snip-

O.k.  So individuals are equal to states.  Hm?

Well, Raven in Snow Crash was. The matter is, he had a nice toy to ease the opponent's compliance to international law. What would have happened if Elwar had a few nuclear missiles auto-activated by hostile fire? It's just like the constitutional right to own a firearm, only taken into the international arena. As erre pointed out, China's building not seasteds but outirght war stations in the sea, and no one says a word. I don't support or even condone the insane arms race we're witnessing, but what international law eventually boils down to is who's got the biggest dick.

We don't disagree.

China is making military bases on artificial islands in international waters, and this seems to be fine (or at least debatable) for international law.

Sorry for the OT rant. Well, partially OT since it contains the word bitcoin (you just read it didn't you?). It's that these things really trigger me.

These seem to be fair topics, even though some of us might disagree about how related they are to bitcoin, and around the time a bit before that Elwar got chased by the Thai authorities, I was not really very excited about Elwar's having had been pumpening of his seastead stakes in this thread, but whatever there seems to be some attempt to relate the matter to bitcoin, and some of us might get riled up again, if there starts to be attempts to sell some of the products and things like that.

[d_eddie]

Maybe in the end, we are on similar grounds when the vast majority of our BTC holdings is in the background in HODL status rather than playing around with it?

Yes. I don't even consider myself a trader, since it is a side activity - small stake and a small income - and I get out of trading for longish stretches of time.