MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[bliljerk101]

I don't know if this is good news or bad news, but it is certainly a big WTF regarding Japanese banks..:

Code:

11:05 < sturles> I noticed on the forum that Japanese domestic transfers come 
                 from a new bank.  I keep watching for reports of international 
                 wires from a new bank as well.  That would be a very good sign.
11:08 <@MagicalTux> sturles, the new bank we use for Japanese transfers is a 
                    domestic only bank
11:16 < sturles> Oh. :-(
11:18 <@MagicalTux> they're the first bank we've seen in JApan that can do 
                    domestic transfers without the need for faxes

Fax!  In 2013!  For a simple domestic transfer!  Can you even buy fax machines any more?  Must be years since I saw one of those.  No wonder even Japanese transfers were slow during high volume periods.  People still think SWIFT transfers from the same banks are fully automated?

I have heard a number of Japanese brag about how "advanced" their banking is, and yet we find they need fax to do wires. This is the farthest thing from advanced. I can send wires from the US without faxes.

[1714194436]

1714194436

[davidgdg]

I tried to withdraw a medium-sized chunk of BTC from Gox yesterday at 9:00 UK time.

After 5 hours of being given the "Invalid address lie" it finally let went through at 14:00.

However the BTC didn't arrive until midnight which of course meant I couldn't do much with it until this morning.

So really it was 24 hours. Nice going Gox.

So far my bargepole has to be long enough to keep away from BTC-e and Gox.

About the only exchange of any use and which I trust right now is MCXnow.

24-hours is lightspeed for MtGox. 

Small withdraw ~1btc at about the same time, got the invalid message for about 10 mins, gave up and contracted support. replied 20 mins with a response which sounded like flannel but who knows.
20 minutes later transaction worked 2 hours later 6 confirms in the wallet. So not too bad considering the stories I'm hearing.

+1 on the mcxNOW has been a great exchange since I found it in early May

Is this just a crypto exchange?

[justusranvier]

Fax!  In 2013!  For a simple domestic transfer!  Can you even buy fax machines any more?  Must be years since I saw one of those.  No wonder even Japanese transfers were slow during high volume periods.  People still think SWIFT transfers from the same banks are fully automated?

http://www.cracked.com/article_20118_5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-living-in-japan.html

#5. Everything Is Frightfully Low-Tech

Quick question: When was the last time you had to use a fax machine?*

*"What is a fax machine?" is an entirely acceptable response.

Well, you should try moving to Japan if you want to recapture the magic of the fax machine and other 1990s technology. I actually use one about twice a month to send out my work invoices, because many of the Japanese companies that employ me do not accept paperwork by email. The rare ones that do require that my Word/Excel files be compatible with their 1998 version of Microsoft Office, which is sort of like requiring your Avengers Blu-ray to play on a Betamax machine.

My point is, on the surface Japan seems like the closest thing Earth currently has to a moon base, what with their stock exchange being entirely computerized and wireless Internet literally coming out of their vending machines.

But the truth is, many things are still being done in painfully old-fashioned ways, a phrase which here means "by hand and on paper." Actually, having seen the amount of paper a typical Japanese office goes through, I feel safe in assuming that the entire country has declared a shadow war on both the information age and trees.

How can this be? Well, Japan is still mainly in the hands of the older generation: Over a fourth of the population is over 60, and they're in no particular hurry to adopt new technology (particularly not Apple products, because as far as Japan is concerned, Steve Jobs can go fuck himself). Institutions like banks, the postal service and government offices still keep all of their records on paper, maintained and filed by superfluous personnel who could easily be replaced by an old Soviet computer (which incidentally is more or less what a friend of mine at a Yokohama municipal office was using at his workstation as recently as 2010).

Many businesses still don't even accept credit cards. A Japanese airline can get you to any corner of the globe without a hassle, so long as you're paying in cash, even if the tickets come up to a few thousand dollars each (and I wish I wasn't speaking from experience). This is made even more difficult by the fact that I don't think I've ever seen a 24-hour ATM anywhere in Japan.

That's right; most banks in Japan keep their ATMs indoors, which means that once the banks close (typically around 6 p.m.), so do the machines, utterly defeating their entire purpose for existing. It's another extension of that technological resistance -- pretty much anywhere outside of Tokyo harbors a deep generational resentment for automation. They don't want the ATMs operational while there aren't any bank employees around to help in case something goes wrong (although outside of users being clubbed with a thermos and robbed, the list of possible mishaps is embarrassingly short). You can always try an ATM at a convenience store (the number of which currently exceeds the national population), if you don't mind the variable transaction fees that seemingly change at random. And that's only if your ATM card will even work in machines outside of your bank, which it almost certainly won't.

Of course, the best time to find out whether the 7-Eleven around the corner accepts your card is after 1 a.m., when all of the public transport has stopped and you desperately need money for a taxi. Basically, if you're planning on doing anything at all besides going to and from work, you need to keep fistfuls of cash either on your person at all times or piled under a mattress in your freezing apartment.

Wait, why is your apartment freezing? Because ...

[sturle]

That aside, even if all this is accurate.  Then why have the domestic transfer times gone out the window if the new partner does not require it?  Wouldn't it be quicker?

When was the last time you tried?  I heard there was a few days delay when they switched banks, and there are no domestic transfers from Friday through Sunday.  And there are Japanese holidays, of course.  16th and 23rd this month.

[bliljerk101]

you need to keep fistfuls of cash either on your person at all times or piled under a mattress in your freezing apartment.

Wait, why is your apartment freezing? Because ...

lol... Good article. I agree. Japan is amazing in so many ways, but in my experiences visiting there, I can say that some things will shock you in terms of their technology--in good ways and bad.

[smoothie]

I made a withdraw via SWIFT on the 6 of August. Still didnt got the funds....answer from support:

" Currently, we are processing International wire transfers manually and have a huge backlog of withdrawals to be cleared. We are in the process of forming relationships with new partners, banks, and taking other steps to clear the backlog. We are expecting the withdrawals to be cleared soon. We will let you know once the withdrawal is processed. Sorry for the inconvenience caused."

This is the same type of excuse BFL keeps making. lol

[tvbcof]

#5. Everything Is Frightfully Low-Tech

*"What is a fax machine?" is an entirely acceptable response.

... You can always try an ATM at a convenience store (the number of which currently exceeds the national population)...

I still get a kick out of the name 'Lawsons' for a 7-11 in Japan.  They were all over the place.  I'm a bit of a connoisseur warm food from such places, and the stuff in Japan was a delight.

I could agree with the characterization 'retro' to describe aspects of Japanese technology and life-ways from what I saw of it.  I think that the entire world deeply appreciates and respects the Japanese propensity for quality in engineering and implementation of their lower tech wares.  I certainly do, and happily pay a premium for it.

[tvbcof]

I still get a kick out of the name 'Lawsons' for a 7-11 in Japan.  They were all over the place.  I'm a bit of a connoisseur warm food from such places, and the stuff in Japan was a delight.

Lawsons is a different chain, just like 7-11 is its own chain.

Ya, Ya, it's just that the name sounds so un-Japanese.  There was a similar thing in India IIRC, but now I cannot remember what it was.  OTOH, 'park' sounds outwardly non-Korean to my ear but it's got to be one of the more abused words in that language.

I wonder if Lawsons had an advertising windfall when Eddie Lawson was winning GP championships right and left on Japanese machines (just like everyone else in the sport.)  That was before any notable Japanese riders showed up on the scene.

[bnjmnkent]

stay on topic, please.

[tvbcof]

stay on topic, please.

An exploration of the social and business setting in which Mt. Gox operate seems to me a perfectly fine way to kill time while waiting for Mt. Gox to send the fiat they have supposedly have in the pipeline.  If they provided any useful information to chew on related to the apparent failure of about half of the services they supposedly offer, the equation might change a bit, but they don't seem to be inclined in that direction.

I'm at day 37-ish awaiting my international wire with no results thus far.  It cannot be argued that a party runs and 'exchange' if their service is only good for one-way purchases.  That is to say, only fiat -> BTC is the operations work.

I currently remain of the opinion that it is most likely that the problems are mostly "not Mt. Gox's fault", but they are failing to provide much information to sustain that opinion.  Some rational for this communications failure would be understandable.  Some not.

[bnjmnkent]

I agree. Not even a facebook page update... I can't understand either, why they
gamble with their immaterial capital (trust), being the oldest exchange.

If they recover from their financial issues, they lost lots of customers for sure.

[dzzima]

All this fax-related-slow-bank-bla-bla stuff does not explain delays with the SEPA transfers. In order to make one, mtgox must have an account with an EU based bank. (I assume they have an account with a Polish bank, since they charge min 5 PLN of banking fee.) Usually, SEPA transfers ARE fully automated and it takes MINUTES for the funds to appear on the account. It makes me think that they are broke and make withdrawals (if any) from newly deposited funds.

[sturle]

All this fax-related-slow-bank-bla-bla stuff does not explain delays with the SEPA transfers. In order to make one, mtgox must have an account with an EU based bank. (I assume they have an account with a Polish bank, since they charge min 5 PLN of banking fee.) Usually, SEPA transfers ARE fully automated and it takes MINUTES for the funds to appear on the account. It makes me think that they are broke and make withdrawals (if any) from newly deposited funds.

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.

[Puppet]

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes. 

Thats the legal maximum for international transfers. In reality most transfers happen the same day, and if its within the same bank or banking group, almost instantaneously.

[dzzima]

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.

Let's make a bet - 1 BTC - that in 30 days time nothing will change.

[calian]

Ok, no one's talking about this so I'll say it. Absent evidence otherwise I think the 5% manual withdrawal option is dead. MTGOX repeatedly missed their promised timeline to process one for me and were very reluctant to allow me to cancel it and get the funds back in my account (though they finally did to their credit).

[mp420]

Hm, I would like a data point. Has anyone who withdrew with SEPA after the end of August received their money yet?

[sturle]

Ok, no one's talking about this so I'll say it. Absent evidence otherwise I think the 5% manual withdrawal option is dead. MTGOX repeatedly missed their promised timeline to process one for me and were very reluctant to allow me to cancel it and get the funds back in my account (though they finally did to their credit).

I have two reports of two successful withdrawals from IRC.  I asked them both to report here so the information would be first hand.  Both wanted to wait until Monday to have the full details of the transfer (e.g. originating bank).

People are quick to complain when their withdrawal is late, and not so quick to report the good news when their money arrive.

[sturle]

SEPA transfers take D+1 days, not minutes.  The explanation for SEPA delays can be found earlier in this thread (someone even called their bank to hear it from them), and everyone else are bored by hearing it over and over.  SEPA has been delayed for the same reason since they changed to the Polish bank more than a year ago.

Let's make a bet - 1 BTC - that in 30 days time nothing will change.

Regarding SEPA, yes.  Their  limit will not change until they have completed their registration as a financial institution.

Regarding other fiat withdrawal option, I expect most of their problems will be resolved within a month, and the fastest fiat withdrawal option (except domestic JPY and manual express international wire) to take less than a week before Christmas.  I'm willing to bet 1 BTC on this.

[RandomQ]

Ok, no one's talking about this so I'll say it. Absent evidence otherwise I think the 5% manual withdrawal option is dead. MTGOX repeatedly missed their promised timeline to process one for me and were very reluctant to allow me to cancel it and get the funds back in my account (though they finally did to their credit).

I have two reports of two successful withdrawals from IRC.  I asked them both to report here so the information would be first hand.  Both wanted to wait until Monday to have the full details of the transfer (e.g. originating bank).

People are quick to complain when their withdrawal is late, and not so quick to report the good news when their money arrive.

Did they have time frames, IE Days, Weeks, a month? Ill take 3rd party hearsay