MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[trdiablo]

BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $376.37 on Sept. 29, 2013, 10:23 a.m., received 276,82€ at my bank on 02/10/2013. (4 work days)

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 307.60000 € on 2013/09/29 10:23:21, received 304,52€ at my bank on 08/10/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.). (8 work days)

This can not be true. I e-mailed them today asking for when they would process my withdrawal and they said I have to wait at least another 3 weeks. How is it possible that you are paid within 8 work days while everyone else has to wait 30+ business days?

[justusranvier]

That's a great start. An area chart that showed how the fractions have changed over time would mean we could have meaningful conversations about trends.

[Alpaca Bob]

That's a great start. An area chart that showed how the fractions have changed over time would mean we could have meaningful conversations about trends.

Perhaps this helps.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/#caaabbdgba

[sturle]

I know.  This is their biggest shortcoming.  They should really do something about it.  Now there is an extra conversion fee of 0.4% to deposit or withdraw EUR, and in addition to this there is the uncertainty of the USD value. :-(

I did not know the fee was 0.4%, I only take what goes out in SEK and what I get in USD and calculate the real/efficient rate i get. And it's pretty much always +0.1 on the USD/SEK rate.

If you transfer 10 EUR to Bitstamp right now, you get 13.508, and if you withdraw 13.508 USD you get 9.9192 EUR according to the rates published in their API.  I.e. just over 0.4% spread.  My bank has half this spread for currency conversion in international or SEPA wires.  (Some banks, e.g. Scandiabanken have terrible currency conversion rates.  Beware!)  I have an EUR denominated account as well to avoid the currency conversion when trading in EUR.  E.g. when doing arbitrage from MtGox.

I see your point. The scary thing for those using MtGox is that Bitstamp seems to come out on top even if you take total MtGox volume vs Bitstamp volume these days. It will, of course, be more meaningful to say Bitstamp is #1 if this trend stays and it looks like that on the 30d, not just 1d or 3d periods. The trend seems to be pretty clear here - but that would of course change the instant MtGox starts doing withdraws - or would it? I mean, I can pay 0.6% (or maby 0.5% or something if I started using it) at MtGox or 0.34% at Bitstamp (or 0.08% at BFX and 0.35% at Bitstamp). MtGox has higher withdraw fees. And so on.

I just had a look at http://data.bitcoinity.org/#caaaabcfba.  MtGox is on top of all listed periods except for 3d (Bitstamp on top) and 10m (btcchina on top when I checked).

BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $376.37 on Sept. 29, 2013, 10:23 a.m., received 276,82€ at my bank on 02/10/2013. (4 work days)

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 307.60000 € on 2013/09/29 10:23:21, received 304,52€ at my bank on 08/10/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.). (8 work days)

This can not be true. I e-mailed them today asking for when they would process my withdrawal and they said I have to wait at least another 3 weeks. How is it possible that you are paid within 8 work days while everyone else has to wait 30+ business days?

Actually, it can be true. It has long been known that small amounts are processed a whole lot faster than big amounts.

So you got €307 out in a timely fashion? I'm curious as to why you'd even bother sending such a "huge" amount around in the first place. Confirm that 10k EUR or at least something larger than 1k EUR comes after 8 work days and you'll get my attention.

When I asked for the latest SEPA delay numbers today, I was told I couldn't get them until Monday because of ... good news.  I don't know what the good news are, but expect them to be about withdrawals.  I didn't get an exact date for the news to be released either.  As far as I understand they are about to take the very last step to something big, and have delayed other news and upgrades until this is finished.  People aren't going to regard any news as positive unless they deliver faster withdrawals, so there is no point in releasing any until this problem is fixed.

[Nagle]

It has long been known that small amounts are processed a whole lot faster than big amounts.

That just screams "they're broke".

[BlueTemplar]

Note that my order was twice slower (both for MtGox and Bitstamp) than in July.

So you got €307 out in a timely fashion? I'm curious as to why you'd even bother sending such a "huge" amount around in the first place. Confirm that 10k EUR or at least something larger than 1k EUR comes after 8 work days and you'll get my attention.

Because I needed some money and Bitcoin is the most "liquid" of the "investments" that I own? (And that's actually 581.34€ since I used both exchanges.)
Sorry, I don't expect to be needing such a big sum anytime soon and can't be bothered to transfer it back-and-forth just for experiment's sake...

[sturle]

It has long been known that small amounts are processed a whole lot faster than big amounts.

That just screams "they're broke".

No, the only logical explanation has been posted in this thread about 20 times.  They have a daily qouta in their bank, a specific daily amount, in outgoing SEPA transfers.  Instead of letting a portion of their quota be unused every day, they fill the holes with small amounts when they can no longer fit the next transfer in queue.  If the next transfer in queue is 7k EUR, and they only have 5k left on their daily quota, they start grabbing smaller transfers from the queue until the quota until it is completely filled.  This is a sign of MtGox trying to pay as much as possible, which they wouldn't do if they were broke.  (And please read previous postings before asking about the quota – the subject has been thoroughly discussed, someone called their bank and got it from them as well, etc.)

[Rampion]

It has long been known that small amounts are processed a whole lot faster than big amounts.

That just screams "they're broke".

No, it's just that the bigger the amount, the more overwhelmed is the poor guy processing the withdrawals. You know, longer numbers have more figures and it takes more time to type them.

[dust]

I haven't been following this thread closely, so I apologize in advance it has been mentioned in recent pages.

Is there any indication that USD international wires (without the 5% fee) are being processed at all?  If so, what request date is the queue up to?

[leoragraves666]

4000 euro withdraw, 4 weeks waiting now

[Rampion]

It has long been known that small amounts are processed a whole lot faster than big amounts.

That just screams "they're broke".

No, the only logical explanation has been posted in this thread about 20 times.  They have a daily qouta in their bank, a specific daily amount, in outgoing SEPA transfers.  Instead of letting a portion of their quota be unused every day, they fill the holes with small amounts when they can no longer fit the next transfer in queue.  If the next transfer in queue is 7k EUR, and they only have 5k left on their daily quota, they start grabbing smaller transfers from the queue until the quota until it is completely filled.  This is a sign of MtGox trying to pay as much as possible, which they wouldn't do if they were broke.  (And please read previous postings before asking about the quota – the subject has been thoroughly discussed, someone called their bank and got it from them as well, etc.)

If they have a daily quota which is not enough they just raise it, as any other business in the world would do. Not all banks have problems with BTC, they can open multiple accounts in different banks, the fact is if you have the money you can certainly find a solution to operate smoothly with it in a few weeks - and months have passed.

[justusranvier]

Perhaps this helps.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/#caaabbdgba

Perfect.

The last 30 day graph shows that Mt Gox is losing more relative market share to btcchina than Bitstamp.

[tvbcof]

If they have a daily quota which is not enough they just raise it, as any other business in the world would do. Not all banks have problems with BTC, they can open multiple accounts in different banks, the fact is if you have the money you can certainly find a solution to operate smoothly with it in a few weeks - and months have passed.

One pattern that seems to have repeated itself over and over is that a Bitcoin exchange gets a smooth operation going with some bank (or money service business) and things chip along for a few weeks, then Bam!  Something happened at the bank level and the bank no longer wishes to be a partner.  What that something is is an open question.  Financial regulations are likely factor.  Anyway, the pattern has been observed for several years now, and a lot of exchanges have been shuttered seemingly because of it.

[pand70]

One pattern that seems to have repeated itself over and over is that a Bitcoin exchange gets a smooth operation going with some bank (or money service business) and things chip along for a few weeks, then Bam!

Do i smell conspiracy? 
In any case an exchange has to plan ahead and take those risks into account. I mean they are doing that business for so long now to not be able to manage the same problems over and over...

[fattypig]

1000 USD withdrawal, still pending since last month..

[tvbcof]

One pattern that seems to have repeated itself over and over is that a Bitcoin exchange gets a smooth operation going with some bank (or money service business) and things chip along for a few weeks, then Bam!

Do i smell conspiracy? 
In any case an exchange has to plan ahead and take those risks into account. I mean they are doing that business for so long now to not be able to manage the same problems over and over...

There is such a thing as an intractable problem, and there are only so many banks in the world.  Thankfully when Tradehill finally hammered up the plywood they did not walk off with my money.  I hope the same holds for Mt. Gox if it comes to that.

To answer your question, ya, I would consider the problems that Bitcoin exchanges (of a certain size) have with mainstream financial institutions to be almost certainly the result of a 'conspiracy' (using the word in a formal way.)  The main question in my mind is mostly how much of the pressure is a result of conspiring within the closed financial services system and how much is from within state sponsored regulatory and political bodies.

---

One thing that Bitcoin has made crystal clear to me is how much 'my' fiat money is NOT my own.  My use of USD is significantly constrained and there are a plethora of things I am not allowed to use USD for which are perfectly legal.  Wikileaks, selling BTC, etc.  I knew intellectually that money issued by the federal reserve was never really mine, but this point has been driven home more concretely of late.

[Frizz23]

That just screams "they're broke".

Why would MtGox not be broke?

Imho they are running out of Fiat.

Why would anyone transfer USD, EUR, JPY, ... to MtGox when you can buy Bitcoins at any other exchange for ~10% less?

MtGox has become a one-way street: Bitcoin in, USD/EUR out.

[smitelrh]

1000 USD withdrawal, still pending over 46 days,and 16 days i asked MTGOX to process 5% fess.still waiting

[RedBill]

Is there any indication that USD international wires (without the 5% fee) are being processed at all?  If so, what request date is the queue up to?

I couldn't get a USD withdrawal even with the 5% fee. It doesn't look like any USD wires are happening (with or without the 5%). Other currencies like JPY, CAD, EUR, AUD are reported to get processed at various delays.

[sturle]

If they have a daily quota which is not enough they just raise it, as any other business in the world would do.

They are working on that.  To do this properly they have to get licenced as a financial business, which cost a lot of money and takes six months to a year.  They couldn't afford the licencing costs until this year.  If we assume they started in April (should be able to afford it then) and it takes six months, this might be the core of the announced announcement.

Creating multiple bank accounts (like finding a new bank that want to do business with a bitcoin exchange is easy) to work around the limitation isn't going to help them get a proper license.