Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary

[klondike_bar]

Is there any disadvantage running a k64 as 4 single k16?

Ok you need 4 USB-cable but is there a speed decrease?

Not different. a k64 is just 4 k16, not cut up into 4 boards but kept as 1. They are connected between each board, not by usb but by a ribbon cable. All you will need is one usb cable, and i think you can connect/chain up to 8 boards in one ribbon cable or was it even 16 boards.

I would assume 8 of them, since that is 128 chips (USB hosts can accept 128 devices, and i would assume that the controller on the K16 either follows this rule or applies a similar rule to the chips it controls)

No, the USB protocol is not used when communicating with the chips.  Each 16-chip board is shown as a single device when connected via USB.  If you use the built-in chaining capability of the boards (which uses the i2c protocol, not USB) it still shows up as a single USB device, regardless of how many boards you have chained together.

okay, thanks for clarifying. On some research, it looks like i2c is limited by the number of pins used. If 3 pins are used, 8 devices are the limit. 4 pins should enable 16 devices. how many are on the K16/K64?

[ryepdx]

how many are on the K16/K64?

4 pins.

[cp1]

I2C is only 2 pins -- clock and data.  (+1 for ground, so really 3).  The 3 vs 4 is probably referring to addressing -- on I2C boards you can use jumpers to select an address. I'm not sure how the boards are picking their addresses.

[bassclef]

If anyone still needs the Murata 38L361C inductor, I just received a couple reels of its approved replacement, the Sumida CDEP105NP-0R3NC-88, stamp 0R3NL.

AFAIK these are sold out everywhere, and I had pretty poor luck sourcing the original Murata part from Chinese vendors at any reasonable price, or at all. I definitely won't be using them all, so let me know and we'll work something out.

[BkkCoins]

okay, thanks for clarifying. On some research, it looks like i2c is limited by the number of pins used. If 3 pins are used, 8 devices are the limit. 4 pins should enable 16 devices. how many are on the K16/K64?

I2C is only 2 pins -- clock and data.  (+1 for ground, so really 3).  The 3 vs 4 is probably referring to addressing -- on I2C boards you can use jumpers to select an address. I'm not sure how the boards are picking their addresses.

The K16 has a 4 pin I2C connector but 1 pin is clipped off and used as a orientation pin for a plugged hole on the female end. That pin has VCC (3.3V) on it and was intended for later to supply power to a repeater module allowing extending the bus. GND, SDA, SCL are pins used.

The I2C provided uses serial# arbitration as an addressing negotiation to assign addresses. The addressing limit is 112 devices but that does not determine the real bus limit as physical effects such as line capacitance have greater influence. I think we can trust that 8 will work but it could be higher.

Addressing doesn't depend on pins or jumpers as in some I2C implementations. Here's how it works:

1. Master sends a query for new devices on the bus.
2. All new devices respond with their serial #.
3. Since I2C is wired-or (has pull up resistors on lines), only zero bits actively actually influence the data captured by the master. This ensures the serial# received is the "lowest one", which acts as a priority filter.
4. Master increments the device count and sends back the new address with serial# as assignment.
5. The device which recognizes it's own serial# stores and uses that address.
6. The process repeats until no response is detected by the master, in which case assignment is complete. The last address value indicates the total slave device count.
7. Periodically a new scan is done just in case devices are added to the the chain.

Each PIC device will be programmed with a unique serial# to enable this method using an updated version of the ktest app via the firmware updater facility, or via manual setting if using a PICKit3. The ktest app is automated so that each device it sees without serial# will cause it to increment and assign a serial#, and record the serial# in a file. That functionality is being coded by me right now and will be pushed to Github in time for PIC/board arrival.

[synapse]

Hello BkkCoins

I am worried with the availabilities of microchip PIC16LF1459-I/SS. Microchip information  PIC16LF1459-I/SS   Estimated Availability:  05-Aug-2013

I think we would have to consider the possibility of alternatives or change package.


What do you think?

Thanks

Cheers!!

as mentioned, the PIC16LF1459-E/SS is a perfectly acceptable cross.  So are the PIC16F1459-E/SS and PIC16F1459-I/SS.

The only difference is that the LF can run to a slightly lower voltage (1.8 vs 2.3) - I don't believe BKK's design runs the PIC that low though, so the F is fine.

Enigma

Hi, sorry to dig up such an old comment, but i decided to take a risk based on the above advice and ordered 7 qfn PIC16F1459-I/ML (before the web store was up, Doh!)
This will be for 4 k1's and the remainder k16's. I'm a little concerend now that maybe the k1's wont have enough juice to power these chips?

[cp1]

I have a bad feeling there's going to be a lot of failed DIY adventures.  But, some could learn a ton of soldering and debugging skills in the process.

[BkkCoins]

Hi, sorry to dig up such an old comment, but i decided to take a risk based on the above advice and ordered 7 qfn PIC16F1459-I/ML (before the web store was up, Doh!)
This will be for 4 k1's and the remainder k16's. I'm a little concerend now that maybe the k1's wont have enough juice to power these chips?

I didn't notice that earlier post about using the F version, and sorry I didn't comment on it.

You cannot currently use the F series on Klondike boards. Even though they are very similar and do everything the same they cannot run USB on 3.3V power reliably due to having an internal LDO regulator for USB. I have been checking with Microchip on ways to bypass that but so far they have not given me reason to believe it can work.

This means it will work ok if being chained but when using USB it may not play nice. The info I have from Microchip is that the LDO will operate in drop-out mode and provide lower than 3.3V to the USB circuit. The circuit can work that way but it's signalling levels will be below USB standards and may not work reliably in some cases. You cannot run it at 5V on the K boards because the other chips and ASICs require 3.3V.

I am still in discussion with a Microchip engineer about this subject but my last info is not promising.

[fasmax]

@BkkCoins  When are you expecting to receive the new PCB boards and do you have enough ASIC's to populate it fully?
To would be nice to see what a full board will do with the changes that were made.

[synapse]

Hi, sorry to dig up such an old comment, but i decided to take a risk based on the above advice and ordered 7 qfn PIC16F1459-I/ML (before the web store was up, Doh!)
This will be for 4 k1's and the remainder k16's. I'm a little concerend now that maybe the k1's wont have enough juice to power these chips?

I didn't notice that earlier post about using the F version, and sorry I didn't comment on it.

You cannot currently use the F series on Klondike boards. Even though they are very similar and do everything the same they cannot run USB on 3.3V power reliably due to having an internal LDO regulator for USB. I have been checking with Microchip on ways to bypass that but so far they have not given me reason to believe it can work.

This means it will work ok if being chained but when using USB it may not play nice. The info I have from Microchip is that the LDO will operate in drop-out mode and provide lower than 3.3V to the USB circuit. The circuit can work that way but it's signalling levels will be below USB standards and may not work reliably in some cases. You cannot run it at 5V on the K boards because the other chips and ASICs require 3.3V.

I am still in discussion with a Microchip engineer about this subject but my last info is not promising.

Thanks, i'm still willing to give it a go and see what happens. Worst case scenario is I remove and replace the chips; I have the skills so i'm not too worried. Maybe I can use those ones as slaves as suggested above..

[BkkCoins]

@BkkCoins  When are you expecting to receive the new PCB boards and do you have enough ASIC's to populate it fully?
To would be nice to see what a full board will do with the changes that were made.

The boards are in production now. I have shipped samples due any time now, but the main batch hasn't finished and shipped yet. They could finish any time now, and once I have shipping details I'll be able to plan for re-packing and shipping out.

I'm leaving for Bkk tonight and hope to get the samples tomorrow. Then I'll return and assemble one complete board for final testing. If it goes as expected it should be coming together by this weekend. The boot loader code is partly done but needs more work and testing. It'll be close but if I can finish it up I should be programming PICs in time for final boards delivery.

The boards will be coming DHL so once I have a shipping notice they should be not long to get here, turn around and ship out. Most of my other new parts orders are waiting for me already in Bkk, including more ASICs for testing (but none of my personal supply yet). Tonight's trip to Bkk will also see me picking up all the sundry items like solder pastes, tweezers, etc for orders.

[BkkCoins]

UPDATE:

I just received shipment notification of first Final Beta boards from China. I don't have a tracking# yet but they should arriving fairly soon - possibly by Monday. Good to know they are done.

[Beastlymac]

UPDATE:

I just received shipment notification of first Final Beta boards from China. I don't have a tracking# yet but they should arriving fairly soon - possibly by Monday. Good to know they are done.

K1 and k16?

[BkkCoins]

UPDATE:

I just received shipment notification of first Final Beta boards from China. I don't have a tracking# yet but they should arriving fairly soon - possibly by Monday. Good to know they are done.

K1 and k16?

K1 is still production. Only K16 shipping now.
I didn't order as many K1 this time since it is less sure to be final.
But enough for my current orders, and they may not take as long as the K16 for production.
However, I am a bit overloaded with work now and I'm not sure how quickly I can get everything turned around - only one of me here, scrambling on many different jobs at once.

[Beastlymac]

UPDATE:

I just received shipment notification of first Final Beta boards from China. I don't have a tracking# yet but they should arriving fairly soon - possibly by Monday. Good to know they are done.

K1 and k16?

K1 is still production. Only K16 shipping now.
I didn't order as many K1 this time since it is less sure to be final.
But enough for my current orders, and they may not take as long as the K16 for production.
However, I am a bit overloaded with work now and I'm not sure how quickly I can get everything turned around - only one of me here, scrambling on many different jobs at once.

Sorry I meant are the sample/test boards for the final revisions both k1 and k16?

[BkkCoins]

UPDATE:

I just received shipment notification of first Final Beta boards from China. I don't have a tracking# yet but they should arriving fairly soon - possibly by Monday. Good to know they are done.

K1 and k16?

K1 is still production. Only K16 shipping now.
I didn't order as many K1 this time since it is less sure to be final.
But enough for my current orders, and they may not take as long as the K16 for production.
However, I am a bit overloaded with work now and I'm not sure how quickly I can get everything turned around - only one of me here, scrambling on many different jobs at once.

Sorry I meant are the sample/test boards for the final revisions both k1 and k16?

K16 samples likely arriving tomorrow. K16 final boards just shipped, will be a few days.
I expect the first K1 boards I'll see will be next week.
All of these are the latest revisions I've done.
K16 samples are QFN.
K16 finals are half/half QFN and SS. K1 is QFN only.

[ElitePork]

I'm not sure whether this will affect any thing/process here. But I believe thai government has issued a ban on bitcoins...
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/29/bitcoin-illegal-in-thailand
http://qz.com/110164/thailands-infamous-bitcoin-crackdown-is-not-quite-what-it-seems/

I believe TS is from thailand?

[Beastlymac]

I'm not sure whether this will affect any thing/process here. But I believe thai government has issued a ban on bitcoins...
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/29/bitcoin-illegal-in-thailand
http://qz.com/110164/thailands-infamous-bitcoin-crackdown-is-not-quite-what-it-seems/

I believe TS is from thailand?

Will this affect any of the Klondike plans?

No. I don't have any bitcoins in Thailand and have never traded any bitcoins in Thailand.

This story is typical of the way Thai officials work and how corrupt all institutions related to law and enforcement are in Thailand. That being random, and highly dependent on who you piss off, so you won't find me discussing my physical location here, or annoying any local authorities. I couldn't afford to pay the bribes if they wanted to bother with me. But this news means you won't find me discussing Bitcoin with locals here. No change for me anyway.

Don't get Thailand mixed up with most western states. It's a completely different way of living here. To give you an example, a friend I had a few years ago used to get stopped for driving without a license like clockwork once a week for his 500 baht fine. If no one makes a stink most unlawful activities are similarly accommodated.

Bkk answered it.

[SebastianJu]

Didnt a bank block a mtgox account and claim its illegal? MTGox sued them and the bank had to unblock it. So i wouldnt trust a banks decision that wants to control money.

[bebfoo]

So Bkkcoins: will you be producing K64 boards (4 K16 all on one PCB board) or no? Wondering how Terrahash will be getting the K64 boards for the DX large boxes...