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Author Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary  (Read 434513 times)
zufik
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July 26, 2013, 06:54:47 AM
 #2601

BkkCoins are you planing to sell complete kits for self assembly?
I ordered a k16 board but if you're going to source parts than I'm willing to wait for the whole kit.
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AdamR
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July 26, 2013, 07:20:57 AM
 #2602

I have purchased a bunch of chips as well as all other components to manufacture the Klondike. I was getting quotes from SMT shops locally (Houston) and they want to charge anywhere between $40k and $100k for producing 630 boards. However, for around $15K I can buy my own mini-SMT line here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/832249626/Small_smt_assembly_line_smt_machine.html

Any thoughts on whether that Alibaba setup can do the same thing the local SMT shops can do?
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July 26, 2013, 07:26:37 AM
 #2603

BkkCoins are you planing to sell complete kits for self assembly?
I ordered a k16 board but if you're going to source parts than I'm willing to wait for the whole kit.

If I could source all the parts I would offer that. Same for assembled K1s. But as long as I can't get some items at all, I won't take orders. At this time the inductors are probably doable, but the IR3895 is still impossible and more PICs are at least a few weeks away, if you believe Microchip.

I have purchased a bunch of chips as well as all other components to manufacture the Klondike. I was getting quotes from SMT shops locally (Houston) and they want to charge anywhere between $40k and $100k for producing 630 boards. However, for around $15K I can buy my own mini-SMT line here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/832249626/Small_smt_assembly_line_smt_machine.html

Any thoughts on whether that Alibaba setup can do the same thing the local SMT shops can do?
I know an SMT shop in Bkk that can assemble your boards qty 500 up starting at $3.30 each. Qty 1000 only $3 each. Plus $500 tooling and setup.

They are using top quality Fuji gear and have been doing it for many years. It sounds like an economy trip to Bkk with PICs n parts in hand may be worthwhile. Plus it's cheaper to have stuff sent from China to here. I've heard several times of the assembly pricing in USA. Most are outrageous but there are a few places that seem to be reasonable. I don't know their names.

It will take a long time to buy, ship, setup and operate a new SMT line. If you want to be in that business long term then fine. But Asia is full of low cost assembly shops.

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July 26, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
 #2604

I have purchased a bunch of chips as well as all other components to manufacture the Klondike. I was getting quotes from SMT shops locally (Houston) and they want to charge anywhere between $40k and $100k for producing 630 boards. However, for around $15K I can buy my own mini-SMT line here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/832249626/Small_smt_assembly_line_smt_machine.html

Any thoughts on whether that Alibaba setup can do the same thing the local SMT shops can do?

Adam - I just sent you a PM with the contact details of an assembly house that we used a few years ago. They're located in the Los Angeles area and at that time did a very decent job and were very reasonable with the price (from what I remember - $6-8 per board for a 120-board run, with about 75-80 components/board, including PIC, transformer, a bunch of connectors, etc).

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July 26, 2013, 09:24:03 AM
 #2605

I have purchased a bunch of chips as well as all other components to manufacture the Klondike. I was getting quotes from SMT shops locally (Houston) and they want to charge anywhere between $40k and $100k for producing 630 boards. However, for around $15K I can buy my own mini-SMT line here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/832249626/Small_smt_assembly_line_smt_machine.html

Any thoughts on whether that Alibaba setup can do the same thing the local SMT shops can do?

Adam - I just sent you a PM with the contact details of an assembly house that we used a few years ago. They're located in the Los Angeles area and at that time did a very decent job and were very reasonable with the price (from what I remember - $6-8/board with about 75-80 components, including PIC, transformer, a bunch of connectors, etc).

Thank you, those prices are Amazing! Its amazing how some companies try to price gouge. Unbelievable spread...
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July 26, 2013, 09:27:02 AM
 #2606

For those of you looking to control a bunch of Klondikes, I went ahead and picked one of these up for testing (specifically to see if it would power the Rpi) and its worked beautifully. (8-port USB2.0 Hub - Molex powered) https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/40935-8-port-usb-2-0-panel-hub-with-molex-power-connector?ref=1836

I plan on running 6 chains of 4x klondikes, one port to power the rpi, and one port for the rpi. Being able to power the hub off the PSU just keeps it all in one package. It came through customs marked as a clock. lol.
That's actually pretty nice. But 8 ports is a weird number. Are all 8 actually data ports or is one a power (charging) only port? Usually they have 7 because the 4 port chip is chained, losing 1 port. Or maybe this one has 2 input USB cables? Does it have the internal type pin header for motherboards or a normal external USB A type connector?

edit: actually, looking at them on ebay I see they do use an internal connector for USB, so I don't know how you are using this with a RasPi unless you have some adapter. I understand it can power the RasPi, but you won't be able to use it to extend the USB from the RasPi without some pin header to USB-A adapter.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/v2-0-Male-Motherboard-Header-Connector/dp/B000QC7NKM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce_3

Apparently pin to USB-A is readily available.

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July 26, 2013, 10:54:35 AM
 #2607

BkkCoins are you planing to sell complete kits for self assembly?
I ordered a k16 board but if you're going to source parts than I'm willing to wait for the whole kit.

Same for me. It is also ok desing with new regulators because IR3895 are out of stock. There are other posibilities also with lower $ per ampere. With higher efficiency too. Two ten rows of avalons are ok too. Look burning board 60amps(80A if properly cooled). Can do 450Mhz.

Standard board are useless until IR3895 are mfg more. Who knows how long it take?

I can wait until complete kits are availabe in shop. I don't care which component mix/alternatives it have if githut have such version board to download. I have maybe posibility to use pnp machine. So components on roll/tape are best.
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July 26, 2013, 11:42:12 AM
 #2608


If I could source all the parts I would offer that. Same for assembled K1s. But as long as I can't get some items at all, I won't take orders. At this time the inductors are probably doable, but the IR3895 is still impossible and more PICs are at least a few weeks away, if you believe Microchip.

Maybe board change to with new reg?

Maybe pic change to 32bit series? 32MX795F512L is less than 9$. 80Mhz, Ethernet, 512K ram, 85 IO-lines (over 300 avalons per one motherboard if use per 8 lines one clock line and 7 datas to drive one 70 pcs avalon bank in seven chains.) Six uarts.

Separate avalons and pic. As bitsyncom done. Simple reg + 10pcs avalons + buffers in one board. Motherboard with simple pinheads to plug/cable avalon stics.
 And if something fails you only need replace one 10pcs avalon card or build new motherboard.

And motherboard with populated ethernet parts it can done later standalone firmware. First versions can do fine with ~current fimwares and usb + cgminer.

Now K16 cost: 2xIR3895 ~5$, pic ~2$ per 14 avalons (if OC'd regs can't drive 16pcs) means 7$/14=0.5$ reg+pic price per one avalon.
 If 60/80A reg can done for 5$ and one ~10$ pic32mx795 are used say per 280 avalons -> 0.036$/chip, + 60A reg per 20pcs avalons -> 0.25$/chip total ~0.28$ per avalon chip or ~50% cheaper.
 Calculation are crude and don't include ferrite, caps etc price, but they are ~equal for same amperes so don't affect much.

One more thing for separating boards: you can populate motherboard later full. You can maybe later add bitsyncom addon cards.
Or maybe even mix bitfury chip in some chain.
 So general motherboard with plenty of IO's and many asic chips chains boards. Types for water cooling, 8, 10 14 chip chain lenght etc. Diffrent alternates if some component are out of stock.

Maybe time to start kolondike V2.0 plans?
BkkCoins
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July 26, 2013, 11:52:15 AM
 #2609


If I could source all the parts I would offer that. Same for assembled K1s. But as long as I can't get some items at all, I won't take orders. At this time the inductors are probably doable, but the IR3895 is still impossible and more PICs are at least a few weeks away, if you believe Microchip.

Maybe board change to with new reg?

......

Maybe time to start kolondike V2.0 plans?
You're welcome to start your own project doing it the way you like.

I won't be doing any v2.0 plans for Avalon based Klondike.

****
I am putting together a deal that may get us a limited run of K16 kits.
All board parts, except ASICs. No heat sink, fan, cable - that's up to your DIY hackin.
This would be a one-time batch. Maybe 100 units.

eros
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July 26, 2013, 01:03:41 PM
 #2610

You're welcome to start your own project doing it the way you like.

****
I am putting together a deal that may get us a limited run of K16 kits.
All board parts, except ASICs. No heat sink, fan, cable - that's up to your DIY hackin.
This would be a one-time batch. Maybe 100 units.

I have quite low time to own project. I have only time to share some ideas.

I'll like add 64pc to my previous order thank you. Can you send btc amount to cover components costs?
erschiessen
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July 26, 2013, 01:47:25 PM
 #2611


If I could source all the parts I would offer that. Same for assembled K1s. But as long as I can't get some items at all, I won't take orders. At this time the inductors are probably doable, but the IR3895 is still impossible and more PICs are at least a few weeks away, if you believe Microchip.

Maybe board change to with new reg?

......

Maybe time to start kolondike V2.0 plans?
You're welcome to start your own project doing it the way you like.

I won't be doing any v2.0 plans for Avalon based Klondike.

****
I am putting together a deal that may get us a limited run of K16 kits.
All board parts, except ASICs. No heat sink, fan, cable - that's up to your DIY hackin.
This would be a one-time batch. Maybe 100 units.



If you go that route, I would purchase 3 kits.
No doubt.

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miningatnight
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July 26, 2013, 02:41:43 PM
 #2612

Love the kit idea.  How hard would it be with your kit to get the chip attached?

My solder skills are not professional grade.
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July 26, 2013, 02:51:51 PM
 #2613

Love the kit idea.  How hard would it be with your kit to get the chip attached?

My solder skills are not professional grade.

Not easy, but doable. You'll need a reflow oven or a DIY toaster oven. And the steady hands and patience to place many flavors of resistors and capacitors. There are 192 of one of them.

The lead paste Bkk sells probably plays better in a toaster oven.
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July 26, 2013, 03:10:29 PM
 #2614

not sure if this is helpful?

newark electronics .ca has IR3895 for $2.69\ea (min 1000)

zufik
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July 26, 2013, 04:15:35 PM
 #2615


If I could source all the parts I would offer that. Same for assembled K1s. But as long as I can't get some items at all, I won't take orders. At this time the inductors are probably doable, but the IR3895 is still impossible and more PICs are at least a few weeks away, if you believe Microchip.

Maybe board change to with new reg?

......

Maybe time to start kolondike V2.0 plans?
You're welcome to start your own project doing it the way you like.

I won't be doing any v2.0 plans for Avalon based Klondike.

****
I am putting together a deal that may get us a limited run of K16 kits.
All board parts, except ASICs. No heat sink, fan, cable - that's up to your DIY hackin.
This would be a one-time batch. Maybe 100 units.
I own IR reflow station so a complete diy kit is what I need.
Do you know when they can be available? I'd be interested in 2 or 3.
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July 26, 2013, 04:18:04 PM
 #2616

For those of you looking to control a bunch of Klondikes, I went ahead and picked one of these up for testing (specifically to see if it would power the Rpi) and its worked beautifully. (8-port USB2.0 Hub - Molex powered) https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/40935-8-port-usb-2-0-panel-hub-with-molex-power-connector?ref=1836

I plan on running 6 chains of 4x klondikes, one port to power the rpi, and one port for the rpi. Being able to power the hub off the PSU just keeps it all in one package. It came through customs marked as a clock. lol.
That's actually pretty nice. But 8 ports is a weird number. Are all 8 actually data ports or is one a power (charging) only port? Usually they have 7 because the 4 port chip is chained, losing 1 port. Or maybe this one has 2 input USB cables? Does it have the internal type pin header for motherboards or a normal external USB A type connector?

edit: actually, looking at them on ebay I see they do use an internal connector for USB, so I don't know how you are using this with a RasPi unless you have some adapter. I understand it can power the RasPi, but you won't be able to use it to extend the USB from the RasPi without some pin header to USB-A adapter.

I'll have to check all the ports out when I get home. Yes, it is a motherboard header so we'd need to snag an additional adapter to connect it to the rpi. I was really only worried about power and if it was capable of pushing enough amperage to support the rpi. Smiley

I'll certainly report back with results of the port tests.
eros
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July 26, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
 #2617

not sure if this is helpful?

newark electronics .ca has IR3895 for $2.69\ea (min 1000)

Sold out..
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July 26, 2013, 04:52:32 PM
Last edit: July 26, 2013, 05:25:11 PM by simon66
 #2618

bkkcoins, it looks like the ceramic cap is sold out on digi, mouse etc. Since I'm making all my purchases on mouse (to save on shipment) can I use this is a replacement?

Original part:
C1005X7S1A474K

Replacement part:
C1005X5R1A474K

----------
Original part:
C3216X7S0J476M

Replacement part:
C3216X5R0J476M


The only difference is that the operating temperature range is "- 55 C to + 85 C" instead of "- 55 C to + 125 C"

Would that really matter?
eros
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July 26, 2013, 04:54:18 PM
 #2619

http://klondikedesign.com/

Shop disappeared?
erschiessen
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July 26, 2013, 04:57:02 PM
 #2620

Works for me.

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