Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary

[BkkCoins]

I saw this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223032.msg2345354#msg2345354
a few minutes ago.
I'm thinking to speed things out and to help BKK coins with testing
There is a member willing to sell 10 chip Avalonmodule for 14 BTC (1.4 BTC per chip)
I'm thinking if we all collect this ammount in an escrow ( let say John K.) if the seller is agree and module be shipped to BKKcoins?
I believe this way we may spare some time and to be ready for july/august delivery of the firs group orders from zefir.
What do you think?

One or two chips would be a good use of funds right now. More than that and I'd probably be better off saving money and waiting on samples. I say this because I can get a lot of design completion from testing just one chip. More chips are better, always, but since some are coming for free before long that additional info about total power use and noise between ASICs is something I can likely wait on.

Umm, so what I mean is that right now if I had one chip then I could verify the ASIC data signals and result nonce receiver, and chip detection strategy and that would be enough work to get everything ready before more chips could be fully used in further study.

----

Back from Bkk. Have PIC chips and various parts. Will be working later today on a first test for programming firmware and analysing signals. Also, got really a nice looking heat sink from Bicknellski - much smoother and fine finish than the ones I have already, plus 2 small sets of heat sinks from China for K1.

Just after I left Bkk I got word that the scope had arrived. That caught me totally off guard as it was Sunday and I wasn't expecting it so soon. Seems DHL from China is super faasst, and they deliver on Sunday here. So... won't be picking that up til next time. So sad, as I'd have loved to get my hands on it already.

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[Beastlymac]

This looks like a really interesting project. I assume you have not considered making a modified design for the use of the BFL chips?

[Bicknellski]

This looks like a really interesting project. I assume you have not considered making a modified design for the use of the BFL chips?

... umm not wanting to step on toes but... there are no documents and no certainty BFL will be able to deliver chips. Maybe try starting a DIY BFL Miner design thread, good luck to you.

[Beastlymac]

This looks like a really interesting project. I assume you have not considered making a modified design for the use of the BFL chips?

... umm not wanting to step on toes but... there are no documents and no certainty BFL will be able to deliver chips. Maybe try starting a DIY BFL Miner design thread, good luck to you.

No don't worry, I don't think that manufacturing a board for chips that will take probably 150 days minimum before the first batch is released is a good idea. By the time the chips have shipped they will be of minimal use almost like the BFL singles etc.

I just thought that a few people might ask.

[zefir]

I saw this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223032.msg2345354#msg2345354
a few minutes ago.
I'm thinking to speed things out and to help BKK coins with testing
There is a member willing to sell 10 chip Avalonmodule for 14 BTC (1.4 BTC per chip)
I'm thinking if we all collect this ammount in an escrow ( let say John K.) if the seller is agree and module be shipped to BKKcoins?
I believe this way we may spare some time and to be ready for july/august delivery of the firs group orders from zefir.
What do you think?

This I would strongly disadvise, mainly for two reasons:
1) the time frame between sample chip delivery and chips in volumes is at least 4 weeks. There is no real gain to get chips for testing earlier than that (yes, you can test design early - but you win nothing by waiting for 6 weeks instead of 4 after verification).
2) if you open that gate now, you can forget about further support from buyers for developers. With an established re-sale price of 1.4BTC per sample chip, everyone would demand his sample chip(s) and try to sell instead of delegating them to the developers.

[Bicknellski]

I saw this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223032.msg2345354#msg2345354
a few minutes ago.
I'm thinking to speed things out and to help BKK coins with testing
There is a member willing to sell 10 chip Avalonmodule for 14 BTC (1.4 BTC per chip)
I'm thinking if we all collect this ammount in an escrow ( let say John K.) if the seller is agree and module be shipped to BKKcoins?
I believe this way we may spare some time and to be ready for july/august delivery of the firs group orders from zefir.
What do you think?

This I would strongly disadvise, mainly for two reasons:
1) the time frame between sample chip delivery and chips in volumes is at least 4 weeks. There is no real gain to get chips for testing earlier than that (yes, you can test design early - but you win nothing by waiting for 6 weeks instead of 4 after verification).
2) if you open that gate now, you can forget about further support from buyers for developers. With an established re-sale price of 1.4BTC per sample chip, everyone would demand his sample chip(s) and try to sell instead of delegating them to the developers.

Again I think BKKCoins could determine his own release right so a chip here or there not a big issue as long as he controls the release date. Even if he had test chips there needs to be full prototype run of the Nano / K16s before designs are released. I for one would agree with Zefir you may not be gaining anything for a 2 week longer wait. Meh... sort of up to BKKCoins what he thinks is important right? We are all going to have to wait for our own chips and again for BKKCoins to test and prove a prototype so what can be gained now?

[marto74]

This I would strongly disadvise, mainly for two reasons:
1) the time frame between sample chip delivery and chips in volumes is at least 4 weeks. There is no real gain to get chips for testing earlier than that (yes, you can test design early - but you win nothing by waiting for 6 weeks instead of 4 after verification).
2) if you open that gate now, you can forget about further support from buyers for developers. With an established re-sale price of 1.4BTC per sample chip, everyone would demand his sample chip(s) and try to sell instead of delegating them to the developers.

I agree with you.
It will open the greed race for sample chips.
C deleted my post about that

[BkkCoins]

This looks like a really interesting project. I assume you have not considered making a modified design for the use of the BFL chips?

As far as I know BFL chips are not for sale anywhere. I somehow suspect they have no interest in selling chips - but that's just a guess.

Meh... sort of up to BKKCoins what he thinks is important right? We are all going to have to wait for our own chips and again for BKKCoins to test and prove a prototype so what can be gained now?

Right now, I'm fine waiting. I have lots of work to do still. If later it came to a point where everything was waiting on chips and they just aren't showing up - I'd reconsider, but if samples don't show up then we probably have bigger problems.

[southerngentuk]

I know you dont have time to read all threads so :-

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/3014-butterfly-labs-announces-bulk-chip-sales.html


Grade A: 16 Engines - $97/chip
Grade B: 15 Engines - $93/chip
Grade C: 14 Engines - $89/chip


If you have a clone maybe you could set him to work on this, otherwise stay focused on the x16

[BkkCoins]

If you have a clone maybe you could set him to work on this, otherwise stay focused on the x16

Oh. I don't read much now. Wish I had a clone. I'm going to have to settle for the yesterday's missed Orphan Black episode.

[Enigma81]

If you have a clone maybe you could set him to work on this, otherwise stay focused on the x16

Unless I'm mistaken, BFL hasn't even demonstrated a working miner larger than a Jalapeno..  What I can't figure out is why any engineer/developer would jump up and design a working product for BFL out of the goodness of their heart.  With Avalon, they already have a working unit - so you can't 'help' them to compete with your design.. With BFL, designing a working miner just helps BFL to ship sooner, increase difficulty and create additional competition.  The only winner in that equation is BFL.

Enigma

[erk]

If you have a clone maybe you could set him to work on this, otherwise stay focused on the x16

Unless I'm mistaken, BFL hasn't even demonstrated a working miner larger than a Jalapeno..  What I can't figure out is why any engineer/developer would jump up and design a working product for BFL out of the goodness of their heart.  With Avalon, they already have a working unit - so you can't 'help' them to compete with your design.. With BFL, designing a working miner just helps BFL to ship sooner, increase difficulty and create additional competition.  The only winner in that equation is BFL.

Enigma

You are mistaken, there are pictures on this forum of a single getting over 50GH/s on the BFL stand at the  recent Bitcoin conference.

[Bicknellski]

Topic... K16... right? We moved talk about casing off this thread to save space we really need to move BFL stuff out too. Come on people.

[emanymton]

I'm wondering is there a piece of hardware we can get to flash the PIC in advance or do we have to wait until the boards are assembled?

[cp1]

You can order them pre-flashed for a premium.  You can flash them yourself with any programmer.

[emanymton]

You can order them pre-flashed for a premium.  You can flash them yourself with any programmer.

Thanks, I don't fancy waiting until September for microchip to make them so I'll have to get one of those.

[BkkCoins]

I'm wondering is there a piece of hardware we can get to flash the PIC in advance or do we have to wait until the boards are assembled?

You can get a PICKit 3 programmer off ebay for about $45. I'd suggest that as the best low cost option. There are also clones of that unit from some Chinese sellers with mixed results for less money. Once the firmware image is released you could also order them programmed from microchipdirect.com. I'm not sure if there is a minimum qty.

Ideally the PIC will only need to be programmed once with this device so you might just leave it up to an assembler or order them from me or as a kit (which would include programmed parts of course).

Depending on how far I get before release it's possible for a while that firmware upgrades may need one. I'll try to get a USB bootloader added in before initial release so that it can be upgraded over USB after the initial flash. I think there will be time for that as things look now.

[TomKeddie]

I saw this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223032.msg2345354#msg2345354
a few minutes ago.
I'm thinking to speed things out and to help BKK coins with testing
There is a member willing to sell 10 chip Avalonmodule for 14 BTC (1.4 BTC per chip)
I'm thinking if we all collect this ammount in an escrow ( let say John K.) if the seller is agree and module be shipped to BKKcoins?
I believe this way we may spare some time and to be ready for july/august delivery of the firs group orders from zefir.
What do you think?

Are we sure these chips will come off on in one piece, they're going to have to get very hot to melt the solder with all that ground plane etc attached.

[fasmax]

I'm wondering is there a piece of hardware we can get to flash the PIC in advance or do we have to wait until the boards are assembled?

You can get a PICKit 3 programmer off ebay for about $45. I'd suggest that as the best low cost option. There are also clones of that unit from some Chinese sellers with mixed results for less money. Once the firmware image is released you could also order them programmed from microchipdirect.com. I'm not sure if there is a minimum qty.

Ideally the PIC will only need to be programmed once with this device so you might just leave it up to an assembler or order them from me or as a kit (which would include programmed parts of course).

Depending on how far I get before release it's possible for a while that firmware upgrades may need one. I'll try to get a USB bootloader added in before initial release so that it can be upgraded over USB after the initial flash. I think there will be time for that as things look now.

Is the K16 going to have a connector for the PICKIT 3?

[fasmax]

I saw this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=223032.msg2345354#msg2345354
a few minutes ago.
I'm thinking to speed things out and to help BKK coins with testing
There is a member willing to sell 10 chip Avalonmodule for 14 BTC (1.4 BTC per chip)
I'm thinking if we all collect this ammount in an escrow ( let say John K.) if the seller is agree and module be shipped to BKKcoins?
I believe this way we may spare some time and to be ready for july/august delivery of the firs group orders from zefir.
What do you think?

Are we sure these chips will come off on in one piece, they're going to have to get very hot to melt the solder with all that ground plane etc attached.

You can get then off easy with a torch to the back side of the board but if you don't do it right you will destroy the chips.
However I agree with zefir  this is not advisable for the reasons he stated.