Bitmain looks like they're releasing a 15GH/s DASH miner called the AntMiner D3

[CryptoCrane]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

I'd say that yes, generally diff increase and price increase go hand in hand.  But if you look at Dash value chart next to Dash diff chart... that does not appear to be the case here, the ratios are not the same, they're very different.  I think anyone expecting Dash to go up 5x-10x in value  just because diff went up 5x-10x over the next few months is going to be in for a nasty surprise.  It'll go up, but not as much as diff.

May 24, 2017
Dash Difficulty = 154k
Dash Value (USD) = $142

Aug 22, 2017
Dash Difficult = 1128k (730% of May 24 level)
Dash Value (USD) = $290 (204% of May 24 price)

Value does not go up as fast as difficulty.

Maybe you get more Dash when diff goes up per mined block?  I don't know.  But if the block reward stays consistent, and the gains have to be made by appreciation, what I'm seeing says Dash value will not go up anywhere near as much as Dash diff.

I wish everyone the best of luck with their D3's and similar next-gen Dash miners... but I think it's not going to be as amazing as people think.  Better be ready to hold that Dash a while.

Correlation does not imply causation. In this case, you're reversing the causation. Difficulty chases profitability (price), not the other way around. Whenever I hear someone say they think the price will go up because the difficulty is going up, it makes me wonder if they also believe that windmills create wind. After all, the faster windmills spin, the faster the wind seems to get.  

It seems more likely that the recent price increase is linked to the 40,000+ people who didn't know much about Dash and started researching while contemplating a D3 purchase - only to realize that there's quite a bit of potential for this coin. I know that happened to me and I purchased some Dash in response. There are tens of thousands of people who probably never heard of Dash that suddenly saw a new product from Bitmain and started looking into it.

i get what you're saying, but using your analogy - if it became much more expensive/difficult for the windmills to create wind energy, then it seems natural that the wind energy would then become more expensive. If it's more expensive to produce a product, then it seems the product would become more expensive to purchase. whatcha think?

That would make sense if Dash were a consumable resource, but it's a currency that doesn't disappear when used. This means that the "supply" for Dash isn't just newly minted coins, but every coin available for purchase on all exchanges. If one could magically increase the difficulty to the point in which nobody could mine any Dash, it wouldn't cause the Dash price to increase. People who want Dash can still get Dash from the existing supply. Lots of coins start as mine-able and transition to PoS, which is the equivalent of what I just described. They don't become more valuable simply because the mining has stopped. People tend to over-estimate the effect that newly minted coins have on the underlying price. Newly minted coins make such a tiny percentage of the daily volume traded that even if every miner in the world was selling and never holding, the affect would be negligible. It's even less meaningful with Dash, since only 45% of newly minted coins come from miners.

[1714181644]

1714181644

[1714181644]

1714181644

[sublimeguy]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.  And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust. 

Not sure what you're talking about. Everyone who mines x11 right now are watching profits crash because they don't have sufficient hashing power. and gigawatt isn't a ponzi scheme. why do you think that? they're a fully audited project. I have my miners there now and I pay 3.3c/kwh for electricity.

Can you set the pool? Can you log into the controls checking the chips and temp?  If you can't do that, its not your miner its theirs....

I also believe GIGA is a ponzi and not a very good one. When i contacted them over and over again regarding legal questions and operations they were not once able to provide answers that could hold up in any legal situation.


If they cant tell you the difference between US citizen customers and non citizen customers and how that will affect the legal situation and their responsibilities you can't call them a serious business venture.


And I highly doubt they got audited by any legal entity

all cloud mining is shady idgaf how the repackage or slice it , gigawatt deleted my posts on facebook and blocked me
when i asked legitimate questions and tried to explain to the layman how cloud mining in general is bad for decentralization and the small miner

gigawatt isn't cloud mining and they're actually great for decentralization and the small miner. And hey, you go girl as far as explaining to the layman about "how cloud mining in general is bad for decentralization and the small miner," but if you're doing that on MY FB PAGE WHERE I SELL MY PRODUCT/SERVICE then yeah, id delete your comments and ban you too. what did you expect - it's THEIR FB page dude.

[sublimeguy]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

I'd say that yes, generally diff increase and price increase go hand in hand.  But if you look at Dash value chart next to Dash diff chart... that does not appear to be the case here, the ratios are not the same, they're very different.  I think anyone expecting Dash to go up 5x-10x in value  just because diff went up 5x-10x over the next few months is going to be in for a nasty surprise.  It'll go up, but not as much as diff.

May 24, 2017
Dash Difficulty = 154k
Dash Value (USD) = $142

Aug 22, 2017
Dash Difficult = 1128k (730% of May 24 level)
Dash Value (USD) = $290 (204% of May 24 price)

Value does not go up as fast as difficulty.

Maybe you get more Dash when diff goes up per mined block?  I don't know.  But if the block reward stays consistent, and the gains have to be made by appreciation, what I'm seeing says Dash value will not go up anywhere near as much as Dash diff.

I wish everyone the best of luck with their D3's and similar next-gen Dash miners... but I think it's not going to be as amazing as people think.  Better be ready to hold that Dash a while.

Correlation does not imply causation. In this case, you're reversing the causation. Difficulty chases profitability (price), not the other way around. Whenever I hear someone say they think the price will go up because the difficulty is going up, it makes me wonder if they also believe that windmills create wind. After all, the faster windmills spin, the faster the wind seems to get.  

It seems more likely that the recent price increase is linked to the 40,000+ people who didn't know much about Dash and started researching while contemplating a D3 purchase - only to realize that there's quite a bit of potential for this coin. I know that happened to me and I purchased some Dash in response. There are tens of thousands of people who probably never heard of Dash that suddenly saw a new product from Bitmain and started looking into it.

i get what you're saying, but using your analogy - if it became much more expensive/difficult for the windmills to create wind energy, then it seems natural that the wind energy would then become more expensive. If it's more expensive to produce a product, then it seems the product would become more expensive to purchase. whatcha think?

That would make sense if Dash were a consumable resource, but it's a currency that doesn't disappear when used. This means that the "supply" for Dash isn't just newly minted coins, but every coin available for purchase on all exchanges. If one could magically increase the difficulty to the point in which nobody could mine any Dash, it wouldn't cause the Dash price to increase. People who want Dash can still get Dash from the existing supply. Lots of coins start as mine-able and transition to PoS, which is the equivalent of what I just described. They don't become more valuable simply because the mining has stopped. People tend to over-estimate the effect that newly minted coins have on the underlying price. Newly minted coins make such a tiny percentage of the daily volume traded that even if every miner in the world was selling and never holding, the affect would be negligible. It's even less meaningful with Dash, since only 45% of newly minted coins come from miners.

ok i get what you're saying. I DO think, however, that if DASH was suddenly un-mineable, it WOULD cause the price to increase (somewhat), even if only 45% of newly minted coins comes from miners and there's an existing supply. That sounds like basic economics to me, but i could be wrong and crypto is a crazy crazy world.

be honest cryptocrane - how many D3's did you order?

[sil2222]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.  And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust. 

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

[Longsnowsm]

On the Ponzi scheme... It is my belief that if new money were to stop flowing into Giga they would quickly fold.  New money is funding prior investors.  I seriously doubt Giga would ever open it's doors to independent audit of the operation or books despite what they say.  

I am not a fan of the cloud mining services.  Big on promises, but not so much on delivery.  To grind through the numbers and sort out your actual cost to mine can be a serious pain and frankly I don't trust them.  Even the Hashnest setup at Bitmain while they are up front about the costs and they are making money on the sale of that miner to you, then they require you to mine through their pool all making Bitmain money.  The cost structure is no bargain either.  But at least going into it you know what to expect.  The cost basis is not cheaper than if you hosted miners or mining yourself depending on what your electricity rates are and fees are.

Someone comes along and suddenly those fairly universal cost structure rules don't seem to apply to Giga?  When most everyone else offering similar services can't do it for that cost... Something stinks.  

So I think this spells ponzi scheme to me... Let's just hope that the sales pitch doesn't start to fall short and the new money stops flowing in.  Because you will see things get ugly fast.

On the D3 or X11 mining I am not saying we won't be making good money between now and the end of the year if you landed an early batch miner.  On the contrary early adopters are going to be rewarded.  I don't have the confidence that later batches are going to be rewarded so handsomely.  Later batches are going to work for it.  We will make some money, but we will be grinding it out to do it.

I think by the end of the year I will say we may be making $20-25 a day on a D3, but I think it will be falling pretty quickly as we will have even more batches online by then.  I am probably being too optimistic at that number, but I do expect Dash to climb to offset a little of the diff rise.   If we get a moon shot with Dash that would be awesome, but I think you have to work your calculations on what you know, not what you HOPE will happen.    

[Longsnowsm]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.  And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust. 

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

So Giga has roughly 84 L3+'s online and that is enough to convince you it isn't a ponzi scheme?  All I can say is good luck with that.

[sublimeguy]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.   And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust.  

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

So Giga has roughly 84 L3+'s online and that is enough to convince you it isn't a ponzi scheme?  All I can say is good luck with that.

You have an interesting analysis about the ponzi scheme - maybe we're talking about two different things. New money isn't funding prior investors (what does that even mean?). Investor money is used to fund the production and development of new mining facilities to host the mining equipment. They're using investment funds to build new giga pods for the miners. They post all kinds of pics and updates on insta/twitter/fb. They can offer their mining services for competitive prices because they have access to insanely cheap hydroelectric power in Washington state and are building cost-cutting giga-pods which are more efficient than single-room monolithic mining facilities. And by your logic, every new innovation or business that disrupts a market "stinks" just because they offer services that their competitors can't. it could be that they're just a good business with a solid business model!

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

[mdude77]

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

Being suspicious in the mining world is a healthy way to not get scammed.

M

[sublimeguy]

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

Being suspicious in the mining world is a healthy way to not get scammed.

M

of course - totally agree. but there's a big difference between being suspicious and calling a company a ponzi scheme for no reason at all, and with zero evidence to support such claim. I guess for me, I assume a business is legit unless it appears otherwise in my research. Maybe others do it the opposite - they assume a business is a scam unless they can be convinced otherwise.

[newtybar]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.   And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust.  

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

So Giga has roughly 84 L3+'s online and that is enough to convince you it isn't a ponzi scheme?  All I can say is good luck with that.

You have an interesting analysis about the ponzi scheme - maybe we're talking about two different things. New money isn't funding prior investors (what does that even mean?). Investor money is used to fund the production and development of new mining facilities to host the mining equipment. They're using investment funds to build new giga pods for the miners. They post all kinds of pics and updates on insta/twitter/fb. They can offer their mining services for competitive prices because they have access to insanely cheap hydroelectric power in Washington state and are building cost-cutting giga-pods which are more efficient than single-room monolithic mining facilities. And by your logic, every new innovation or business that disrupts a market "stinks" just because they offer services that their competitors can't. it could be that they're just a good business with a solid business model!

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

I have two miners at Gigawatt, but I am still a little nervous and will be until I make my return on capital =].

[newtybar]

On the Ponzi scheme... It is my belief that if new money were to stop flowing into Giga they would quickly fold.  New money is funding prior investors.  I seriously doubt Giga would ever open it's doors to independent audit of the operation or books despite what they say.  

I am not a fan of the cloud mining services.  Big on promises, but not so much on delivery.  To grind through the numbers and sort out your actual cost to mine can be a serious pain and frankly I don't trust them.  Even the Hashnest setup at Bitmain while they are up front about the costs and they are making money on the sale of that miner to you, then they require you to mine through their pool all making Bitmain money.  The cost structure is no bargain either.  But at least going into it you know what to expect.  The cost basis is not cheaper than if you hosted miners or mining yourself depending on what your electricity rates are and fees are.

Someone comes along and suddenly those fairly universal cost structure rules don't seem to apply to Giga?  When most everyone else offering similar services can't do it for that cost... Something stinks.  

So I think this spells ponzi scheme to me... Let's just hope that the sales pitch doesn't start to fall short and the new money stops flowing in.  Because you will see things get ugly fast.

On the D3 or X11 mining I am not saying we won't be making good money between now and the end of the year if you landed an early batch miner.  On the contrary early adopters are going to be rewarded.  I don't have the confidence that later batches are going to be rewarded so handsomely.  Later batches are going to work for it.  We will make some money, but we will be grinding it out to do it.

I think by the end of the year I will say we may be making $20-25 a day on a D3, but I think it will be falling pretty quickly as we will have even more batches online by then.  I am probably being too optimistic at that number, but I do expect Dash to climb to offset a little of the diff rise.   If we get a moon shot with Dash that would be awesome, but I think you have to work your calculations on what you know, not what you HOPE will happen.    

The forced purchase of the WTT tokens is what is providing the extra funding / cushion for the capital investment to build out their facility.  I tried buying more WTT yesterday but they wouldn't let me, saying that the funding round is closed.  I think that is a good sign.

They also sell the equipment at a few hundred dollar premium.

Cost structure at Hashnest still rocks what I could do here locally (California @ 31 cents kwh).  In hindsight I would have purchased 100 of the hashnest L3s.

[Oakey22]

Did these ever come out?

[Longsnowsm]

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

Being suspicious in the mining world is a healthy way to not get scammed.

M

of course - totally agree. but there's a big difference between being suspicious and calling a company a ponzi scheme for no reason at all, and with zero evidence to support such claim. I guess for me, I assume a business is legit unless it appears otherwise in my research. Maybe others do it the opposite - they assume a business is a scam unless they can be convinced otherwise.

Again we will see... They need to raise capital or the whole thing folds.  Giga has no skin in the game from what it looks like from the outside.  They are raising the capital from the miners and locking in unsustainable costs(my analysis of what I see).  This isn't some paradigm shift.  In the real world it costs money for facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff, and I don't believe the numbers add up.  I know what it costs to the penny to run my miners at home.  I know what it costs to the penny to host my miners at a hosting facility.  I know the basic costs and even taking into account areas with low cost of electricity I don't think Giga numbers add up.  I know my costs are not fixed for any kind of time frame into the future, but Giga is somehow able to predict the future.

So take that for what it is worth.  If you ran the numbers and it seemed to make sense to you then great.  I wish you the best of luck.  But I do not think my concerns are unfounded.  I think people need to know that there is reason to give Giga the critical eye to their sales pitch.  

So instead of Giga I went with a hosting location with low energy costs, but my actual costs are still no where near the hosting locations base load cost for electricity.  Why?  Because the facility, staff, and the need to grow require them to charge me more than their costs in order to continue to function.  Plus the hosting location has a reputation here on the forums and takes care of their customers.  Instead of front loading like Giga with too many unknowns going forward I prefer the hosting facility that is telling me the scoop based on market conditions and the needs of the facility.  If costs get too high I did NOT get hit with a front loaded cost so I can move my miners if I need to.  If Giga chooses to not honor their "locked in" price you already paid your money to get in there.  So it is no sweat off their backs if you decide you need to leave.  They got your money, your miner, paid way in advance so they have practically no risk.  All the risk is on you.

What a brilliant business model... Again I wish you guys the best of luck who are buying into the Giga ponzi scheme.

[thesavoyard]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.   And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust.  

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

So Giga has roughly 84 L3+'s online and that is enough to convince you it isn't a ponzi scheme?  All I can say is good luck with that.

You have an interesting analysis about the ponzi scheme - maybe we're talking about two different things. New money isn't funding prior investors (what does that even mean?). Investor money is used to fund the production and development of new mining facilities to host the mining equipment. They're using investment funds to build new giga pods for the miners. They post all kinds of pics and updates on insta/twitter/fb. They can offer their mining services for competitive prices because they have access to insanely cheap hydroelectric power in Washington state and are building cost-cutting giga-pods which are more efficient than single-room monolithic mining facilities. And by your logic, every new innovation or business that disrupts a market "stinks" just because they offer services that their competitors can't. it could be that they're just a good business with a solid business model!

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

His definition is a Ponzi scheme, not sure why you think using investor money to invest is a Ponzi scheme.

[thesavoyard]

Good news though, Helium will be launching in late September using X11 algo. (check my sig, I'm already onboard) It's already generating buzz with their service node concept. That should spread the D3 hash power out a bit more, each mineable coin will relieve pressure on Dash.


I changed my avatar too but for some reason, it won't update.

[mdude77]

What a brilliant business model... Again I wish you guys the best of luck who are buying into the Giga ponzi scheme.

Maybe this is a bitmain spinoff?  Seems an aweful lot like what they do.  Miners pay up front, they create the units, mine with them for a month, and then deliver.

M

[sublimeguy]

and having 84 L3+ (i think its more like 132) probably shouldn't convince you it's not a ponzi scheme, but it's DEFINITELY not evidence that they ARE a ponzi scheme. You think about things in a weird way man! why are you so suspicious?

Being suspicious in the mining world is a healthy way to not get scammed.

M

of course - totally agree. but there's a big difference between being suspicious and calling a company a ponzi scheme for no reason at all, and with zero evidence to support such claim. I guess for me, I assume a business is legit unless it appears otherwise in my research. Maybe others do it the opposite - they assume a business is a scam unless they can be convinced otherwise.

Again we will see... They need to raise capital or the whole thing folds.  Giga has no skin in the game from what it looks like from the outside.  They are raising the capital from the miners and locking in unsustainable costs(my analysis of what I see).  This isn't some paradigm shift.  In the real world it costs money for facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff, and I don't believe the numbers add up.  I know what it costs to the penny to run my miners at home.  I know what it costs to the penny to host my miners at a hosting facility.  I know the basic costs and even taking into account areas with low cost of electricity I don't think Giga numbers add up.  I know my costs are not fixed for any kind of time frame into the future, but Giga is somehow able to predict the future.

So take that for what it is worth.  If you ran the numbers and it seemed to make sense to you then great.  I wish you the best of luck.  But I do not think my concerns are unfounded.  I think people need to know that there is reason to give Giga the critical eye to their sales pitch.  

So instead of Giga I went with a hosting location with low energy costs, but my actual costs are still no where near the hosting locations base load cost for electricity.  Why?  Because the facility, staff, and the need to grow require them to charge me more than their costs in order to continue to function.  Plus the hosting location has a reputation here on the forums and takes care of their customers.  Instead of front loading like Giga with too many unknowns going forward I prefer the hosting facility that is telling me the scoop based on market conditions and the needs of the facility.  If costs get too high I did NOT get hit with a front loaded cost so I can move my miners if I need to.  If Giga chooses to not honor their "locked in" price you already paid your money to get in there.  So it is no sweat off their backs if you decide you need to leave.  They got your money, your miner, paid way in advance so they have practically no risk.  All the risk is on you.

What a brilliant business model... Again I wish you guys the best of luck who are buying into the Giga ponzi scheme.

I've read your posts carefully and honestly i really just dont think you understand the project. I think you have a lot of misconceptions.

First of all, 100% of businesses need sufficient capital or they fold. There's nothing unique about that from gigawatt - that's universal. If (name any company ever) didn't raise sufficient capital they would fold.

Second, they are not raising capital from the miners. They raised capital from their WTT token ICO, which already completed and raised over $20,000,000 in capital. That's exactly what pays for the "facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff" you point out. Where did you think the money came from? Yes, I had to invest in their WTT token ICO in order to have the right to host my own miners (which i own and ordered directly from Bitmain) at the brand new gigawatt facilities, which were built and funded from their ICO and token sale. The numbers add up perfectly. Because I gave gigawatt substantial funds up front, I now have access to 3.3c/kwh electricity and use of their mining facilities. the difference in electricity costs alone will pay for the investment in about 4 months.

I guess they could just be like "HAHA JK IM TAKING YOUR MONEY LOL" but that's not a reasonable fear or suspicion. When you buy a candy bar, are you suspicious it will actually be a turd under the wrapper? There's no logical reason for this other than the fact that it theoretically COULD happen.

I do get what you're asying about the front loaded costs. yes that is true, but again, thats exactly what their value proposition is: pay us up front and then recoup that cost in ultra-cheap electricity costs (and some other benefits like on-site maintenance of miners if needed).

And ultimately, if i don't like gigawatt, I can always go grab my miners, take them back home to mine, and then rent out or sell my WTT tokens.

It alllllll makes sense man.

[Longsnowsm]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

Your right everyone who mines X11 right now watching profits crash are just imagining it.   And Gigawatt is a ponzi scheme... Buy and mine yourself, or find a reputable hosting site you can trust.  

I dont agree gigawatt is a ponzi scheme. Gigawatt currently has the highest hash rate 67ghs on litecoinpool.org

So Giga has roughly 84 L3+'s online and that is enough to convince you it isn't a ponzi scheme?  All I can say is good luck with that.

Your right, it is a fantastic business model.... I really should pay for like 10 years in advance and get the promise of low electricity for that entire time.  Gosh, I just missed out.  Well that's just my luck.  Maybe next time.  

You know not everyone lives in the same kind of house, drives the same kind of car, has the same kind of miners...  Diversity, variety are good... Keeps things interesting.  

I am glad you guys are all thrilled with Giga...  My calculator tells me something doesn't add up so I will be steering clear of Giga... Hey you should be happy that just means more for you.

[greyworld]

Did these ever come out?

They sold three batches of them but none have shipped yet.

[newtybar]

I've read your posts carefully and honestly i really just dont think you understand the project. I think you have a lot of misconceptions.

First of all, 100% of businesses need sufficient capital or they fold. There's nothing unique about that from gigawatt - that's universal. If (name any company ever) didn't raise sufficient capital they would fold.

Second, they are not raising capital from the miners. They raised capital from their WTT token ICO, which already completed and raised over $20,000,000 in capital. That's exactly what pays for the "facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff" you point out. Where did you think the money came from? Yes, I had to invest in their WTT token ICO in order to have the right to host my own miners (which i own and ordered directly from Bitmain) at the brand new gigawatt facilities, which were built and funded from their ICO and token sale. The numbers add up perfectly. Because I gave gigawatt substantial funds up front, I now have access to 3.3c/kwh electricity and use of their mining facilities. the difference in electricity costs alone will pay for the investment in about 4 months.

I guess they could just be like "HAHA JK IM TAKING YOUR MONEY LOL" but that's not a reasonable fear or suspicion. When you buy a candy bar, are you suspicious it will actually be a turd under the wrapper? There's no logical reason for this other than the fact that it theoretically COULD happen.

I do get what you're asying about the front loaded costs. yes that is true, but again, thats exactly what their value proposition is: pay us up front and then recoup that cost in ultra-cheap electricity costs (and some other benefits like on-site maintenance of miners if needed).

And ultimately, if i don't like gigawatt, I can always go grab my miners, take them back home to mine, and then rent out or sell my WTT tokens.

It alllllll makes sense man.

Exactly, the WTT ICO paid for their capital expenditures to build out the facility.

That was stated up front.

Not sure why this is considered "shady."

Now that the ICO is over.  I don't have enough WTT for the last miner I purchased and they stated I will have to pay the rental fee and electricity, which equates to 10 cents per KWH.