Bitmain looks like they're releasing a 15GH/s DASH miner called the AntMiner D3

[Longsnowsm]

What a brilliant business model... Again I wish you guys the best of luck who are buying into the Giga ponzi scheme.

Maybe this is a bitmain spinoff?  Seems an aweful lot like what they do.  Miners pay up front, they create the units, mine with them for a month, and then deliver.

M

   Yes, the games being played are pretty slimy at the moment aren't they?  Kind of hard to differentiate these days.

[1714775446]

1714775446

[1714775446]

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[1714775446]

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[1714775446]

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[greyworld]

What a brilliant business model... Again I wish you guys the best of luck who are buying into the Giga ponzi scheme.

Maybe this is a bitmain spinoff?  Seems an aweful lot like what they do.  Miners pay up front, they create the units, mine with them for a month, and then deliver.

M

   Yes, the games being played are pretty slimy at the moment aren't they?  Kind of hard to differentiate these days.

Hashnest.

Miners pay up front, then when the miner is 'paid off', Bitmain keeps it.  Lol such a scam.

[Longsnowsm]

I've read your posts carefully and honestly i really just dont think you understand the project. I think you have a lot of misconceptions.

First of all, 100% of businesses need sufficient capital or they fold. There's nothing unique about that from gigawatt - that's universal. If (name any company ever) didn't raise sufficient capital they would fold.

Second, they are not raising capital from the miners. They raised capital from their WTT token ICO, which already completed and raised over $20,000,000 in capital. That's exactly what pays for the "facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff" you point out. Where did you think the money came from? Yes, I had to invest in their WTT token ICO in order to have the right to host my own miners (which i own and ordered directly from Bitmain) at the brand new gigawatt facilities, which were built and funded from their ICO and token sale. The numbers add up perfectly. Because I gave gigawatt substantial funds up front, I now have access to 3.3c/kwh electricity and use of their mining facilities. the difference in electricity costs alone will pay for the investment in about 4 months.

I guess they could just be like "HAHA JK IM TAKING YOUR MONEY LOL" but that's not a reasonable fear or suspicion. When you buy a candy bar, are you suspicious it will actually be a turd under the wrapper? There's no logical reason for this other than the fact that it theoretically COULD happen.

I do get what you're asying about the front loaded costs. yes that is true, but again, thats exactly what their value proposition is: pay us up front and then recoup that cost in ultra-cheap electricity costs (and some other benefits like on-site maintenance of miners if needed).

And ultimately, if i don't like gigawatt, I can always go grab my miners, take them back home to mine, and then rent out or sell my WTT tokens.

It alllllll makes sense man.

Exactly, the WTT ICO paid for their capital expenditures to build out the facility.

That was stated up front.

Not sure why this is considered "shady."

Now that the ICO is over.  I don't have enough WTT for the last miner I purchased and they stated I will have to pay the rental fee and electricity, which equates to 10 cents per KWH. 

Hey as long as you guys are happy throwing your money at Giga who am I to complain?  Seriously, enjoy your investment.  I hope it pans out for you.  

I don't see that Giga has hardly any skin in the game so whatever.  They are the ones making out like bandits here.  

I am sure we will see a bunch of knockoff companies appear.  Heck why not, convince people to throw money at you to fund a venture and you don't have to do anything other than market the pitch to the audience and then hopefully execute on the plan if you raise the capital.  Other peoples money at work... Hey if they can pull it off good for them.  

[sublimeguy]

I've read your posts carefully and honestly i really just dont think you understand the project. I think you have a lot of misconceptions.

First of all, 100% of businesses need sufficient capital or they fold. There's nothing unique about that from gigawatt - that's universal. If (name any company ever) didn't raise sufficient capital they would fold.

Second, they are not raising capital from the miners. They raised capital from their WTT token ICO, which already completed and raised over $20,000,000 in capital. That's exactly what pays for the "facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff" you point out. Where did you think the money came from? Yes, I had to invest in their WTT token ICO in order to have the right to host my own miners (which i own and ordered directly from Bitmain) at the brand new gigawatt facilities, which were built and funded from their ICO and token sale. The numbers add up perfectly. Because I gave gigawatt substantial funds up front, I now have access to 3.3c/kwh electricity and use of their mining facilities. the difference in electricity costs alone will pay for the investment in about 4 months.

I guess they could just be like "HAHA JK IM TAKING YOUR MONEY LOL" but that's not a reasonable fear or suspicion. When you buy a candy bar, are you suspicious it will actually be a turd under the wrapper? There's no logical reason for this other than the fact that it theoretically COULD happen.

I do get what you're asying about the front loaded costs. yes that is true, but again, thats exactly what their value proposition is: pay us up front and then recoup that cost in ultra-cheap electricity costs (and some other benefits like on-site maintenance of miners if needed).

And ultimately, if i don't like gigawatt, I can always go grab my miners, take them back home to mine, and then rent out or sell my WTT tokens.

It alllllll makes sense man.

Exactly, the WTT ICO paid for their capital expenditures to build out the facility.

That was stated up front.

Not sure why this is considered "shady."

Now that the ICO is over.  I don't have enough WTT for the last miner I purchased and they stated I will have to pay the rental fee and electricity, which equates to 10 cents per KWH.  

Hey as long as you guys are happy throwing your money at Giga who am I to complain?  Seriously, enjoy your investment.  I hope it pans out for you.  

I don't see that Giga has hardly any skin in the game so whatever.  They are the ones making out like bandits here.  

I am sure we will see a bunch of knockoff companies appear.  Heck why not, convince people to throw money at you to fund a venture and you don't have to do anything other than market the pitch to the audience and then hopefully execute on the plan if you raise the capital.  Other peoples money at work... Hey if they can pull it off good for them.  

All of crypto is a risk and an investment, and there are definitely a lot of shady business propositions out there with no real value that I can see. I thought giga's white paper and their value proposition was unusually clear and measurable in a spreadsheet. I thought they were one of the few projects who actually did do something other than market their pitch - they built physical mining facilities (which are already operational).

The business model of "convincing people to throw money at you to fund a venture and you don't have to do anything other than market the pitch" sounds like the VAST majority of token ICO's these days (SNC being a great example), without any functioning or working product. Thats why I like etheroll (DICE) and gigawatt - they both have real, functioning products - DICE being a working ethereum dice game, and gigawatt being a functioning mining facilities / gigapods.

i actually had to read the giga white paper about 3 times before i really understood what they were selling, but once I "got it" it made perfect sense to me.

anyway better to be overly skeptical in crypto than blindly plugging every stupid ICO launch.

[Longsnowsm]

Well that is the beauty and interesting dynamic of this community.  We make friends, we share information, tips, and maybe even meet in real life and help each other out.  Building relationships and working together can be part of this experience here.

No matter how this story goes for the D3, or Giga, or Dash etc it is our common sharing here where we ultimately can learn from each other.

I think that is what makes this forum very powerful and useful. 

I am just eagerly waiting for that first shipment of D3's to roll and hopefully get some feedback from the lucky first batch buyers.  They may be too busy counting their coin to bother to post however! LOL

[wheelz1200]

Well that is the beauty and interesting dynamic of this community.  We make friends, we share information, tips, and maybe even meet in real life and help each other out.  Building relationships and working together can be part of this experience here.

No matter how this story goes for the D3, or Giga, or Dash etc it is our common sharing here where we ultimately can learn from each other.

I think that is what makes this forum very powerful and useful. 

I am just eagerly waiting for that first shipment of D3's to roll and hopefully get some feedback from the lucky first batch buyers.  They may be too busy counting their coin to bother to post however! LOL

Agree ive learned a lot through this part of the forum, good, bad or indifferent.  Been a rough go with keeping up with the jones's but its fun to try to keep up....

[ras grio]

Hello on the Dash site I found some valuable information

Dash works a little differently from Bitcoin, however, because it has a two-tier network. The second tier is powered by masters (Full Nodes), which enable financial privacy (PrivateSend), instant transactions (InstantSend), and the decentralized governance and budget system. Because this second tier is so important, masternodes are also rewarded when miners discover new blocks. The breakdown is as follows: 45% of the block reward goes to the miner, 45% goes to masternodes, and 10% is reserved for the budget system (created by superblocks every month).


Thus the masternodes and the miners receive the same for each block.

Later on the site I found the ROI of the masternodes.

ROI tab

http://Http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html

$ 2027

So can we say that miners are currently given the same value as masternodes?

[greyworld]

Hello on the Dash site I found some valuable information

Dash works a little differently from Bitcoin, however, because it has a two-tier network. The second tier is powered by masters (Full Nodes), which enable financial privacy (PrivateSend), instant transactions (InstantSend), and the decentralized governance and budget system. Because this second tier is so important, masternodes are also rewarded when miners discover new blocks. The breakdown is as follows: 45% of the block reward goes to the miner, 45% goes to masternodes, and 10% is reserved for the budget system (created by superblocks every month).


Thus the masternodes and the miners receive the same for each block.

Later on the site I found the ROI of the masternodes.

ROI tab

http://Http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html

$ 2027

So can we say that miners are currently given the same value as masternodes?

Looks like a good time to be a master node.  They're going to have a very profitable couple of months.

[Longsnowsm]

Hello on the Dash site I found some valuable information

Dash works a little differently from Bitcoin, however, because it has a two-tier network. The second tier is powered by masters (Full Nodes), which enable financial privacy (PrivateSend), instant transactions (InstantSend), and the decentralized governance and budget system. Because this second tier is so important, masternodes are also rewarded when miners discover new blocks. The breakdown is as follows: 45% of the block reward goes to the miner, 45% goes to masternodes, and 10% is reserved for the budget system (created by superblocks every month).


Thus the masternodes and the miners receive the same for each block.

Later on the site I found the ROI of the masternodes.

ROI tab

http://Http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html

$ 2027

So can we say that miners are currently given the same value as masternodes?

Looks like a good time to be a master node.  They're going to have a very profitable couple of months.

There are quite a few debates and conversations on the Dash forum about this master node situation.  Today it would be a sweet thing to own a master node on Dash.

[mdude77]

There are quite a few debates and conversations on the Dash forum about this master node situation.  Today it would be a sweet thing to own a master node on Dash.

When I first heard about this, I thought I'd look to see what it takes to become a masternode.  Among other things, it requires 1000 dash that you can't touch.  That means $300,000 USD at today's prices.

Probably worth doing earlier, not so sure about now.

Then I thought, wow, these guys will be making a lot with all the mining coming up.

Then I realized, wait, difficulty will adjust to keep the rate of blocks about the same for them.  So it'll be useful to be a masternode if dash price keeps going up.  Makes me wish I knew about this when it was $8 a coin.

M

[CryptoCrane]

I'm convinced the people here "worrying" about difficulty levels rising and "suggesting" people do anything OTHER than order a D3 are just fudding and in reality want all the D3's for themselves. Right now, these units have a 9 day ROI. even if earnings drop 4x you're still looking at ROI under 1 single month. Yes customs and bitmain website and order process are huge pains in the ass, but if you can get through it you're gonna do very well. don't listen to the people crowing about difficulty. When difficulty goes up, generally the value of the underlying coin goes up - JUST LIKE DASH IS EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW. even though difficulty goes up, profitability does not proportionally decline.

anyway i got 14.

by the way, if you're serious about mining, you need to check out the gigawatt white paper and the WTT token.

I'd say that yes, generally diff increase and price increase go hand in hand.  But if you look at Dash value chart next to Dash diff chart... that does not appear to be the case here, the ratios are not the same, they're very different.  I think anyone expecting Dash to go up 5x-10x in value  just because diff went up 5x-10x over the next few months is going to be in for a nasty surprise.  It'll go up, but not as much as diff.

May 24, 2017
Dash Difficulty = 154k
Dash Value (USD) = $142

Aug 22, 2017
Dash Difficult = 1128k (730% of May 24 level)
Dash Value (USD) = $290 (204% of May 24 price)

Value does not go up as fast as difficulty.

Maybe you get more Dash when diff goes up per mined block?  I don't know.  But if the block reward stays consistent, and the gains have to be made by appreciation, what I'm seeing says Dash value will not go up anywhere near as much as Dash diff.

I wish everyone the best of luck with their D3's and similar next-gen Dash miners... but I think it's not going to be as amazing as people think.  Better be ready to hold that Dash a while.

Correlation does not imply causation. In this case, you're reversing the causation. Difficulty chases profitability (price), not the other way around. Whenever I hear someone say they think the price will go up because the difficulty is going up, it makes me wonder if they also believe that windmills create wind. After all, the faster windmills spin, the faster the wind seems to get.  

It seems more likely that the recent price increase is linked to the 40,000+ people who didn't know much about Dash and started researching while contemplating a D3 purchase - only to realize that there's quite a bit of potential for this coin. I know that happened to me and I purchased some Dash in response. There are tens of thousands of people who probably never heard of Dash that suddenly saw a new product from Bitmain and started looking into it.

i get what you're saying, but using your analogy - if it became much more expensive/difficult for the windmills to create wind energy, then it seems natural that the wind energy would then become more expensive. If it's more expensive to produce a product, then it seems the product would become more expensive to purchase. whatcha think?

That would make sense if Dash were a consumable resource, but it's a currency that doesn't disappear when used. This means that the "supply" for Dash isn't just newly minted coins, but every coin available for purchase on all exchanges. If one could magically increase the difficulty to the point in which nobody could mine any Dash, it wouldn't cause the Dash price to increase. People who want Dash can still get Dash from the existing supply. Lots of coins start as mine-able and transition to PoS, which is the equivalent of what I just described. They don't become more valuable simply because the mining has stopped. People tend to over-estimate the effect that newly minted coins have on the underlying price. Newly minted coins make such a tiny percentage of the daily volume traded that even if every miner in the world was selling and never holding, the affect would be negligible. It's even less meaningful with Dash, since only 45% of newly minted coins come from miners.

ok i get what you're saying. I DO think, however, that if DASH was suddenly un-mineable, it WOULD cause the price to increase (somewhat), even if only 45% of newly minted coins comes from miners and there's an existing supply. That sounds like basic economics to me, but i could be wrong and crypto is a crazy crazy world.

be honest cryptocrane - how many D3's did you order?

I really hope you're right and I'm wrong - I'd love the increased difficulty to increase the price! As to how many D3s I have ordered, I'd prefer not to disclose that publicly

[Whoareyou11]

A lot of smart people have purchased bulk of D3's and re-selling them for 2K more!

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/d/antminer-d3-15gh-dash-crypto/6274542259.html

So maybe not all 1800 units start mining for the November batch!..some hope!

[greyworld]

A lot of smart people have purchased bulk of D3's and re-selling them for 2K more!

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/d/antminer-d3-15gh-dash-crypto/6274542259.html

So maybe not all 1800 units start mining for the November batch!..some hope!

Well I'm sold.  Tell Wu I'm down for 20 more, ASAP!

[Marvell1]

I've read your posts carefully and honestly i really just dont think you understand the project. I think you have a lot of misconceptions.

First of all, 100% of businesses need sufficient capital or they fold. There's nothing unique about that from gigawatt - that's universal. If (name any company ever) didn't raise sufficient capital they would fold.

Second, they are not raising capital from the miners. They raised capital from their WTT token ICO, which already completed and raised over $20,000,000 in capital. That's exactly what pays for the "facilities, electricity, ongoing maintenance, staff" you point out. Where did you think the money came from? Yes, I had to invest in their WTT token ICO in order to have the right to host my own miners (which i own and ordered directly from Bitmain) at the brand new gigawatt facilities, which were built and funded from their ICO and token sale. The numbers add up perfectly. Because I gave gigawatt substantial funds up front, I now have access to 3.3c/kwh electricity and use of their mining facilities. the difference in electricity costs alone will pay for the investment in about 4 months.

I guess they could just be like "HAHA JK IM TAKING YOUR MONEY LOL" but that's not a reasonable fear or suspicion. When you buy a candy bar, are you suspicious it will actually be a turd under the wrapper? There's no logical reason for this other than the fact that it theoretically COULD happen.

I do get what you're asying about the front loaded costs. yes that is true, but again, thats exactly what their value proposition is: pay us up front and then recoup that cost in ultra-cheap electricity costs (and some other benefits like on-site maintenance of miners if needed).

And ultimately, if i don't like gigawatt, I can always go grab my miners, take them back home to mine, and then rent out or sell my WTT tokens.

It alllllll makes sense man.

Exactly, the WTT ICO paid for their capital expenditures to build out the facility.

That was stated up front.

Not sure why this is considered "shady."

Now that the ICO is over.  I don't have enough WTT for the last miner I purchased and they stated I will have to pay the rental fee and electricity, which equates to 10 cents per KWH. 

Hey as long as you guys are happy throwing your money at Giga who am I to complain?  Seriously, enjoy your investment.  I hope it pans out for you.  

I don't see that Giga has hardly any skin in the game so whatever.  They are the ones making out like bandits here.  

I am sure we will see a bunch of knockoff companies appear.  Heck why not, convince people to throw money at you to fund a venture and you don't have to do anything other than market the pitch to the audience and then hopefully execute on the plan if you raise the capital.  Other peoples money at work... Hey if they can pull it off good for them.  

Exactly LOL , thats why cloud mining is a disease, the owners basically take no risk , get you money for miners at inflated prices and don't give a flying f if you ROI or not , either way they get free miners and free power for thier own mini farms hosted in the same facility.

DATORHALL anyone

lol dummies

[lentyna]

I've also posted this in L3+ board.

Do any of you guys use 220/240 V power in US with APW3++? What kind of plug and outlet are you using?

[Trade_BTC]

I've also posted this in L3+ board.

Do any of you guys use 220/240 V power in US with APW3++? What kind of plug and outlet are you using?

Use 220v C13 to C14 plug at least 14 AWG and enjoy the large amp reduction from the 220/240v and improved efficiency of the power supply. Costs more upfront but much better long term. I started my farm with 40k and a dream just keep learning and improve your set up.

[CryptoCrane]

I've also posted this in L3+ board.

Do any of you guys use 220/240 V power in US with APW3++? What kind of plug and outlet are you using?

Yes, I use C13 to C14 power cables to connect the APW3++ to my CyberPower PDUs. The PDUs connect to my Nema L6-30r receptacles on the wall.

[lentyna]

I have these NEMA 10-30 wall sockets, but I cannot find any adapter from C13 to NEMA 10-30.

[Trade_BTC]

I have these NEMA 10-30 wall sockets, but I cannot find any adaptor from C13 to NEMA 10-30.

Use a PDU like the person above you suggested even if you have one asic miner now assume in time you will have more and the PDU will be well used. After my office is converted into a mining operation I'll do a guide and walk through to help new people.

[Dexterqo]

Guys I think that something is wrong with my order..
I ordered one D3 (October batch) on 2017-08-03
I sent money fot that on 2017-08-07
Order status is after 2 weeks still: Paying, Unshipped, Valid

Now I check my order and I can see something strange. There is Payment Details like this:

Payment Detail
Total Amount ：   1651.27 USD
BANK ：   1626.27 USD
BTC/USD rate ：   2813
LTC/USD rate ：   43.9
USD/CNY rate ：   6.72
Time of Payment ：   2017-08-09 04:51:04

Do you have any idea why is the BANK amount lower? Is this means that bitmain received about 30 USD less then I sent? I am sure that I choosed "PAY ALL FEES" when I processing the payment.
Do you have any idea how I can solve this? I have opened ticket on bitmain support but I don't get response.

Their bank fees came out. I got an email a few days later asking me to pay the balance via LTC. Paid it and i was good. The second time i ordered i included an extra 35 bucks to cover their bank fees. Went through no problem. As far as i know there is no pay all fees option to cover the receiving bank fees because the sending bank has no idea how much the fees are going to be. Thats what the lady at my bank told me anyways.

Hi miners!
I can finnaly confirm above words. Today I've got reply from bitmain support with request to sent missing 25 USD.

Good day to you.
We received your payment for order XXXXXXXXXXXXX but only 1626.27 USD was received.
So there is 25 USD less. We’ve marked pay all fees in the email with our bank details.
Please pay 0.0089 btc(equal to 25 USD according to the exchange rate when you place the order) to the wallet address
below
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Tips:
please pay the remaining amount according to the exchange rate when you place the order instead of in this moment.
please finish the payment in 3-5 working days or your order probably will be cancelled.

And inform us once you finish the payment ,thanks for your understanding in advance.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Regards,
Chita
Bitmain

I already sent it and I hope that my order will be finaly marked as paid. Good luck to all.