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Author Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development  (Read 351445 times)
sairon
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June 10, 2013, 10:01:13 AM
 #541

One thing that will help Yacoin is having a decent marketplace.
Currently, is there any one-stop location to look for people buying and selling with YAC?
We have trading for other crypto currencies, but there really needs to be a marketplace so people can do more with the coin.

There was a spreadsheet at one point. Is that all there is yet?

Is this subforum also able to be used?

If someone is looking to spend their YAC or has something he or she would like to try quickly selling with YAC, the overhead to put the item up should be very low, to encourage use beyond trading.

Yac does fit the need for miners who want an alternative to the GPU and ASIC rush.
Mining has been growing according to the recent network hashrate.

Plenty of people have acquired it through mining or trading.

Now let's make the Yac they've obtained work for them beyond speculation.

If Alice wants to sell an ebook for Yac, where would she go? If Bob wants to buy a Steam game for Yac, where would he go?

well, we can always fork bitcoin-otc as it's open-source https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor

I don't think YAC needs a marketplace right now, as I don't think there is enough people to support it. What YAC needs ATM is :
  • A community driven place, a place where people can find the software and documentation (AFAIK the yacoin.org is not updated anymore and run by someone that has nothing to do with the original developer)
  • Active development .
  • A public GPU miner (otherwise the network is always at risk).

what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
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Boing7898
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June 10, 2013, 10:10:40 AM
 #542


We will all end up beeing hacked, thanks!

Lol.

What does it say? Can't seem to access that page.

I'll send you a PM with the screenshotted thread, so you can see it.

One thing that will help Yacoin is having a decent marketplace.
Currently, is there any one-stop location to look for people buying and selling with YAC?
We have trading for other crypto currencies, but there really needs to be a marketplace so people can do more with the coin.

There was a spreadsheet at one point. Is that all there is yet?

Is this subforum also able to be used?

If someone is looking to spend their YAC or has something he or she would like to try quickly selling with YAC, the overhead to put the item up should be very low, to encourage use beyond trading.

Yac does fit the need for miners who want an alternative to the GPU and ASIC rush.
Mining has been growing according to the recent network hashrate.

Plenty of people have acquired it through mining or trading.

Now let's make the Yac they've obtained work for them beyond speculation.

If Alice wants to sell an ebook for Yac, where would she go? If Bob wants to buy a Steam game for Yac, where would he go?





What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

I don't think YAC needs a marketplace right now, as I don't think there is enough people to support it. What YAC needs ATM is :
  • A community driven place, a place where people can find the software and documentation (AFAIK the yacoin.org is not updated anymore and run by someone that has nothing to do with the original developer)
  • Active development .
  • A public GPU miner (otherwise the network is always at risk).

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

sairon
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June 10, 2013, 10:22:52 AM
 #543

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC... So if someone decided to launch a 51% attack on YAC network, he would need approx. 103 GPUs (which is not that much if you consider GPU farms used to mine LTC). Also, GPU mining could stop working on August 13th, but I would not count on that (IMHO it would become impossible in mid-2015 with *current* GPUs, considering the scratchpad size of 32M [at least on my GPU, considering I'm not completely wrong, which I might be Cheesy]).

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
Boing7898
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June 10, 2013, 10:25:28 AM
 #544

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC... So if someone decided to launch a 51% attack on YAC network, he would need approx. 103 GPUs (which is not that much if you consider GPU farms used to mine LTC). Also, GPU mining could stop working on August 13th, but I would not count on that (IMHO it would become impossible in mid-2015 with *current* GPUs, considering the scratchpad size of 32M [at least on my GPU, considering I'm not completely wrong, which I might be Cheesy]).
Hmm, you're right.
In my opinion (keep in mind that I'm pretty noob at this stuff), the developers should try to focus on making the coin mineable only with CPUs.
This way we won't need a GPU miner to prevent 51% attacks.
But I have no idea if it's possible to make it safe from GPUs.

cryptrol
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June 10, 2013, 10:27:17 AM
 #545

what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC

An active wiki like the one's up for bitcoin and litecoin in their github account's.  And binary release's on the main github account would be a nice start. Yacoin is orphan since the original dev is missing, but this should not be a problem since a distributed coin is owned by their holders and with consensus anything could be changed. Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.

cryptrol
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June 10, 2013, 10:32:59 AM
 #546

But I have no idea if it's possible to make it safe from GPUs.
No it's not. GPU's are a memory constrained ATM, and  using scrypt with the Keccak hashing as used in yacoin only increases the memory used and thus the gap between CPU and GPU shortens but GPU will always be faster. The problems some people is having with GPU implementations is just because of the higher memory usage of yacoin mining, and this usage increases in time.
Keep in mind that when litecoin was released it was a CPU mining coin.
bitdwarf
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June 10, 2013, 10:34:09 AM
 #547

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC...

That's not correct, please check the comments after the one where you saw that number.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
mberg2007
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June 10, 2013, 10:37:20 AM
 #548

What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

sairon
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June 10, 2013, 10:41:37 AM
 #549

what exactly do you have in mind that requires active developement?
agreed on the gpu miner, but oh well... would be a shame if we got 51%'d like FTC

An active wiki like the one's up for bitcoin and litecoin in their github account's.  And binary release's on the main github account would be a nice start. Yacoin is orphan since the original dev is missing, but this should not be a problem since a distributed coin is owned by their holders and with consensus anything could be changed. Essentially I am talking about an *official* yacoin takeover.
Well, WindMaster has been pretty active on his github fork, and as it's the only maintained YAC fork, I'd consider it pretty much "official". So Yacoin is not an oprhan, just the devs changed. Binary releases should not be a problem as long as someone trusted makes them. For the github wiki, I'd say that devs don't have time for it and nobody else can write it. Cheesy

But.. wouldn't that defeat the purpose of YAC, aka being mined only with CPUs?

Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.

^ This.

Well, right now GPU is almost 16x faster than a CPU mining YAC...

That's not correct, please check the comments after the one where you saw that number.

Will do.
EDIT: Can't find anything.

What do you mean? YAC already has some exchanges, like Vircurex and BTER.

If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Paying 200 YAC or 0.07 BTC for working WinXP 32-bit YACoin QT wallet compiled from latest source code. Communication over PM only until I
make sure everything works properly, there are no viruses and so on. Afterwards I'll post link for others to eventualy download and upgrade wallet.

Shame I don't have dev tools on my windows install (using linux) Cheesy

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
sairon
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June 10, 2013, 11:06:24 AM
 #550


Since there is people already mining YAC with GPU. This only makes the currency unfair and insecure. So a public GPU implementation could only improve the security.

^ This.

I agree. The fact that some are mining with GPU creates serious issues on exchanges. Price can not go up because there are constant dumps of
thousands of coins even now when price is so low that mining with most CPUs is not profitable. So, on one side there is less and less CPU miners
and on the other side there are few GPU miners making extreme profit and ruining the deal for everyone else. I have removed all my buy orders for
now, and the next time I'll be putting them up it will be at 0.00003 or less. I had enough of paying 0.0003+ to support CPU mining, sorry.

And then there are possibly some botnets or people who don't pay for electricity (and someone else does).

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
mberg2007
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June 10, 2013, 12:16:14 PM
 #551


If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Is that a fact? I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

If you could take 100 YAC and buy a meal at McDonalds, people would mine them for other reasons than to exchange them to USD. Some people might want their salaries paid in YAC rather than USD. And people with YAC in their pockets will create a demand for merchants to support YAC spending, which is the ONLY thing that will sustain a currency in the long run.

If YAC is irrelevant as a long term currency, then whatever problems "we have right now" are in reality also pretty irrelevant.

- Michael
Boing7898
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June 10, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
 #552

Someone should also make easy to follow guides on how to mine YACs on Windows and Linux and keep it updated (there are a lot of old threads with old links),

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June 10, 2013, 02:21:25 PM
 #553

Regarding an auction site, this is probably what would be used to make one: http://www.webidsupport.com/

Would just need to add a payment plugin for YAC and get it hosted. If no one else takes this up, I may do it once I get some free time. At a minimum I would post a number of items to whatever marketplace site was created for YAC.
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June 10, 2013, 02:39:11 PM
 #554

I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

+1

But even bigger problem is that there is nothing one can buy with YAC only. Such deal would create at least some non-speculation-oriented demand
for YAC.

Anyway, I got newest Win 32-bit YACoin QT wallet from cre8r and testing it now. If anyone skilled and adventurous wanna help testing it let me
know and I'll send you download link via PM. Unless you know what is Sandbox, how to check network traffic and have highly secured system than
please stay away!

VirusTotal detected nothing suspicious:

https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e95af7ea4ec19514b8b642c820bfc8528051e4a01b467f6cf49baab032a04d8d/analysis/1370865711/

Glad someone was able to get that for you - I got stalled out on getting from yacoind.exe compiled to getting -qt compiled due to lack of time.  I do have an updated CPU miner for x86 compiled under MingW with the latest scrypt-jane library (and directions on how to compile it) - it appear 5+% faster than the one god3 posted - if you need them.

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
mnx
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June 10, 2013, 03:16:46 PM
 #555

Is anyone else having problems sending coins?

I've done all my mining on p2pool, and I can't create a transaction larger than 30 YAC.  (I have 294 YAC in my wallet currently).  ANything larger and is says failed to create transaction.  When I try to send 30 YAC, it says I need to pay a transaction fee of 41 YAC!!!!!

Any way to get this fixed?

Thanks!
sairon
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June 10, 2013, 03:57:21 PM
 #556


If you first have to exchange your YAC into CDN or USD, and then withdraw that money from the exchange, it will be highly impractical and completely unfeasible for small purchases.

Having a place to spend your YAC directly will increase its usefulness a great deal.

-Michael

I think we have bigger problems right now.

Is that a fact? I actually think the biggest problem for YAC (and many other alts) is the fact that you can't spend them on anything. Their only value comes from the exchange rate with some fiat currency. These currencies are naked with no substance to them, which makes them a speculative instrument at best.

If you could take 100 YAC and buy a meal at McDonalds, people would mine them for other reasons than to exchange them to USD. Some people might want their salaries paid in YAC rather than USD. And people with YAC in their pockets will create a demand for merchants to support YAC spending, which is the ONLY thing that will sustain a currency in the long run.

If YAC is irrelevant as a long term currency, then whatever problems "we have right now" are in reality also pretty irrelevant.

- Michael

Well, first we need a much wider Bitcoin adoption... IMHO alternative cryptocurrencies are just for the "community", to test new features and come up with possible improvements for some "new" (read: widely-adopted) cryptocurrency (or become one). For me, the value of YAC is its innovation. And as far as the speculation goes - well, just look at some Bitcoin exchange rate charts. Wink Like it or not, speculators are driving the Bitcoin market forward. This is a truly free market after all. And as there's no effective way of short-selling Bitcoin, all they can do is force the price to rise.

Seriously, you can't demand that everyone suddendly starts accepting a *coin that has been around only a month. Did your granny hear of Bitcoin? Maybe. Litecoin? Highly unlikely.

Is anyone else having problems sending coins?

I've done all my mining on p2pool, and I can't create a transaction larger than 30 YAC.  (I have 294 YAC in my wallet currently).  ANything larger and is says failed to create transaction.  When I try to send 30 YAC, it says I need to pay a transaction fee of 41 YAC!!!!!

Any way to get this fixed?
Thanks!

You have too many of too little inputs from p2pool mining. Every input is some 200 bytes on average when you try to send it, and also you pay fee for every single kB of transaction and the space in one block is pretty limited, so it might have just happened that you exceeded it.

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
Sahtor
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June 10, 2013, 07:24:03 PM
 #557

YAC currency symbol BBCode plugin released for SMF forums:
http://yacoin.sahtor.net/post/2013/06/10/SMF-BBCode-for-Yacoin-currency-symbol

Its in use in Yacointalk.com
bitdwarf
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June 10, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
 #558

For Linux users: Press Ctrl+Shift+u, then type 024E

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
wetroof
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June 10, 2013, 11:29:38 PM
 #559

this is a strange YAC address. or is there more that start with X's. and why?

http://yacexplorer.tk/address/Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz

Xz7bAZ4ME8AqeLSptV1jKcm29giyVwoFkz
bitdwarf
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June 10, 2013, 11:39:41 PM
 #560

My first address was an X too (not that one). It worked so I didn't think much about it, just created new ones and used them instead.

𝖄𝖆𝖈: YF3feU4PNLHrjwa1zV63BcCdWVk5z6DAh5 · 𝕭𝖙𝖈: 12F78M4oaNmyGE5C25ZixarG2Nk6UBEqme
Ɏ: "the altcoin for the everyman, where the sweat on one's brow can be used to cool one's overheating CPU" -- theprofileth
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