[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[Beave162]

...

The vote was completed and a majority voiced their opinion.     

IMHO the vote should have been done at YACointalk not at Bitcointalk to get the vote more accepted. Asking at Bitcontalk for a new logo is like asking the workers at Ford for a new GMC logo and then wondering why GMC doesnt accept the new logo 

 No not quite... 

I sent the new logo in 64x64 to the yacoin.org website guy. The wallet client links might need updating too.

Thanks much Sahtor!

So is YaCoin actually accepted anywhere?

Why the price is constantly going down?    I thought it must grow when we got new developers (who are active finally) but unfortunately it went down to new lows.
I still believe in Yacoin but less than before. I heard some people are accumulating YAC becuase some people expect price growth. Do you think it is possible?

I believe what we are witnessing is like a reverse pre-mine... The original idea is that when the difficulty drops more people will mine because reward increases... however, the drop is too significant in rewarding latecomers and not enticing enough to get enough latecomers to compensate for the difficulty decrease/reward increase.  Of course, you have PoS which will increase in its share of blocks--thus rewarding the savers--but still.  And is anyone else uneasy about the fact that there is no supply limit?  I guess you can make estimations on an upperlimit minus the PoS inflation, but it is so difficult with the Nfactor changes, and isn't GPU mining going to be obsolete soon (but unknown when, I understand it will happen in Novemeber)?

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[Thirtybird]

So is YaCoin actually accepted anywhere?

Why the price is constantly going down?    I thought it must grow when we got new developers (who are active finally) but unfortunately it went down to new lows.
I still believe in Yacoin but less than before. I heard some people are accumulating YAC becuase some people expect price growth. Do you think it is possible?

I believe what we are witnessing is like a reverse pre-mine... The original idea is that when the difficulty drops more people will mine because reward increases... however, the drop is too significant in rewarding latecomers and not enticing enough to get enough latecomers to compensate for the difficulty decrease/reward increase.  Of course, you have PoS which will increase in its share of blocks--thus rewarding the savers--but still.  And is anyone else uneasy about the fact that there is no supply limit?  I guess you can make estimations on an upperlimit minus the PoS inflation, but it is so difficult with the Nfactor changes, and isn't GPU mining going to be obsolete soon (but unknown when, I understand it will happen in Novemeber)?
[/quote]

The other thing to take into consideration is that BTC is at its highest value during the life of YAC right now.  In April, BTC fell to $60-$80.  Now, it's going in the $130 range.  YAC  is no longer over-valued (as most young coins are), but is pretty much in-line with other alt-coins.  Coupled with the rise in BTC, it's gone way low.

[St.Bit]

I believe what we are witnessing is like a reverse pre-mine...

Or prices just had been too optimistic ...

When you look at http://www.yacoinstats.tk/coin-supply.html you see that new coin supply had been nearly constant over the last 3-4 month. When you estimate Yacoins marketcap for the future you have to remember that there will be far more coins by then.

At first the market was extremly over optimistic on YAC. By the time prices were at 0.4mBTC (2013-05-31) the MC wasn't looking too big for a crypto with such great features, but it would have to grow to 320kUSD* in the next 3 month just to keep that price. In other words it would have needed people to spend ~50kUSD/mo on YAC (without anyone selling their old coins.)

It seems to me that this was doomed to happen without an extreme demand for YAC. Once people noticed that YAC didn't skyrocket as expected they stoped buying. With decreasing prices from the miners others started to sell and we ended up at the current MC.

This behavour makes YAC the ideal currency once the coin growth/mc decrease period is over, but it's impossible to predict when that happens. I belive now is a good time to accumulate some Yac. Not at once, but like fixed USD per week.**

*BTC is a bad way to measure MC or value
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging

[sairon]

I believe what we are witnessing is like a reverse pre-mine...

Or prices just had been too optimistic ...
<snip>

Agreed. If BTC hadn't increased in value quite steadily, but instead stagnated or even devalued, I'm pretty sure we'll still be at 0.4 mBTC per YAC. IMHO altcoins are gonna have a pretty rough time for a few months to come (I expect it to last at least until March).

[Shoma]

Is there any guide how to pos mining yacoin?

[sairon]

I'm having troubles mining PoS blocks. In last few days, I've used both CC and classic YACoin versions (including yacoind daemon) but no
PoS blocks were mined. I'm PoS mining occassionaly, in few hours sessions, and there are plenty of inputs older than 30 days. Compared
to previous PoS mining session times, at least few blocks should be mined by now. Another odd thing is that CPU usage is almost constantly
at 50% which is much higher than it used to be with PoS mining previously. On YACoin explorer, I have noticed less PoS blocks than one
month ago but due to PoS reward splitting there should be more PoS blocks, or it is others having PoS issues and / or not PoS mining?

What are prerequisites for PoS mining on WinXP? What OS services or add-ons YACoin uses? I have reinstalled OS recently and went for
"minimized" WinXP created with nLite, everything works fine except now YACoin PoS mining is acting strange.

It should be completely self-contained (and if something was missing it'll let you know and wouldn't start at all). The PoS mining is completely random just as PoW mining (it's the same process - hashing a block header until the hash is lower than the difficulty target). The increased CPU usage can have other causes, like validation of new blocks or coinstakes (coinstakes take much longer to validate IIRC). The PoS reward splitting is not an issue (it also joins multiple small inputs into one large output - this already happended at least once, so I'm sure it works).

Is there any guide how to pos mining yacoin?

1) launch yacoin-qt
2) get some YACs
3) ???
4) profit!

[Gorgoy]

Is there any guide how to pos mining yacoin?

Buy some YAC, or have some in your wallet and wait thirty (30) days, and then you should start Point of Stake take place. It is as simple as that. By the way, it is 5% per year the coin that are generated, and of course it is the value of your coins that are PoS. At least that is now I understand it to work. Hope it helped.

[sairon]

I'm having troubles mining PoS blocks. In last few days, I've used both CC and classic YACoin versions (including yacoind daemon) but no
PoS blocks were mined. I'm PoS mining occassionaly, in few hours sessions, and there are plenty of inputs older than 30 days. Compared
to previous PoS mining session times, at least few blocks should be mined by now. Another odd thing is that CPU usage is almost constantly
at 50% which is much higher than it used to be with PoS mining previously. On YACoin explorer, I have noticed less PoS blocks than one
month ago but due to PoS reward splitting there should be more PoS blocks, or it is others having PoS issues and / or not PoS mining?

What are prerequisites for PoS mining on WinXP? What OS services or add-ons YACoin uses? I have reinstalled OS recently and went for
"minimized" WinXP created with nLite, everything works fine except now YACoin PoS mining is acting strange.

It should be completely self-contained (and if something was missing it'll let you know and wouldn't start at all). The PoS mining is completely random just as PoW mining (it's the same process - hashing a block header until the hash is lower than the difficulty target). The increased CPU usage can have other causes, like validation of new blocks or coinstakes (coinstakes take much longer to validate IIRC). The PoS reward splitting is not an issue (it also joins multiple small inputs into one large output - this already happended at least once, so I'm sure it works).

1st PoS session, over 2 months ago = all coins were on one address and one input, it took few hours to generate stake (~1 block every few hours)
2nd PoS session, over 1 month ago = coins were on 5 addresses and like 100 inputs, it took 2 weeks to generate stakes (~1 block every few hours)
3rd PoS session, started 5 days ago = coins are on 10 addresses and like 1000 inputs (all over 10 YAC), no stake generated yet

Well, I can make a Fast'n'Furious PoS yacoin-qt build for you if you want (remove the delay so it will hash like crazy, eating 100% cpu). Should be fairly easy to do, I'll look into it tomorrow. This way we can eliminate the possibility of a bug.

[Gorgoy]

I believe what we are witnessing is like a reverse pre-mine...

Or prices just had been too optimistic ...
<snip>

Agreed. If BTC hadn't increased in value quite steadily, but instead stagnated or even devalued, I'm pretty sure we'll still be at 0.4 mBTC per YAC. IMHO altcoins are gonna have a pretty rough time for a few months to come (I expect it to last at least until March).

I absolutely agree with you all, the price of YACoin has gone down lately but I also agree that now is a great time to buy the coin. When you compare YAC to many of the the simple Bitcoin or Litecoin clones, you can see the YAC has some very impressive qualities and it does make it stand out and be unique. The coin has done extremely well, and this is even when it had no developer, pocopoco abandoned the coin almost at birth, and no active management. It has survived on it's own just from it's merit. Now when I say it has survived on it's own I do not take away the huge amount of time/energy/money that has been invested by the YAC community. WE made this coin, because we believe in this coin and because the coin has the properties that we believe will make it last the test of time.

I have invested a huge amount of time reading up on this coin and others, and have decided to stick with YAC and do what I can do best, invest in it. If you believe in the coin, invest in it. I hold a nice chunk of YAC and will continue to invest in it because I think the price drop is only temporary and the value will go up. With the current budget debacle in the US more people will turn to Bitcoin, the price of Bitcoin will go up and because YAC is valued against Bitcoin it's value will go down. I still think that YAC is priced cheap and will buy it.

OK all, I will get off my high horse and shut up. You guys are all great and you make this community and YACoin valuable.

[ivanlabrie]

I think a fast and furious pos miner would be cool...I would dedicate 7 of my 8 threads to it and mine on my gpus with the spare core.

[St.Bit]

Well, I can make a Fast'n'Furious PoS yacoin-qt build for you if you want (remove the delay so it will hash like crazy, eating 100% cpu). Should be fairly easy to do, I'll look into it tomorrow. This way we can eliminate the possibility of a bug.

Sounds interresting.

As far as I understand is a PoS block generated for every imput, so those 10 adresses behave like 1000 with just one input each. The easiest would be to forward each adress to a new one via CC, but otherwise we could see if there is a bug somewhere. Has anyone experience with a single adress with a lot of eightible inputs for PoS?

[Joe_Bauers]

I'm having troubles mining PoS blocks. In last few days, I've used both CC and classic YACoin versions (including yacoind daemon) but no
PoS blocks were mined. I'm PoS mining occassionaly, in few hours sessions, and there are plenty of inputs older than 30 days. Compared
to previous PoS mining session times, at least few blocks should be mined by now. Another odd thing is that CPU usage is almost constantly
at 50% which is much higher than it used to be with PoS mining previously. On YACoin explorer, I have noticed less PoS blocks than one
month ago but due to PoS reward splitting there should be more PoS blocks, or it is others having PoS issues and / or not PoS mining?

What are prerequisites for PoS mining on WinXP? What OS services or add-ons YACoin uses? I have reinstalled OS recently and went for
"minimized" WinXP created with nLite, everything works fine except now YACoin PoS mining is acting strange.

It should be completely self-contained (and if something was missing it'll let you know and wouldn't start at all). The PoS mining is completely random just as PoW mining (it's the same process - hashing a block header until the hash is lower than the difficulty target). The increased CPU usage can have other causes, like validation of new blocks or coinstakes (coinstakes take much longer to validate IIRC). The PoS reward splitting is not an issue (it also joins multiple small inputs into one large output - this already happended at least once, so I'm sure it works).

1st PoS session, over 2 months ago = all coins were on 1 address and 1 input, it took few hours to generate stake
2nd PoS session, over 1 month ago = coins were on 5 addresses and like 100 inputs, it took 2 weeks to generate stakes (1 block every few hours)
3rd PoS session, started 5 days ago = coins are on 10 addresses and like 1000 inputs (all over 10 YAC), no stake generated yet

As soon as I unlock wallet, CPU usage goes to around 50% and client starts reacting slowly. Few hours later client is almost not responding and
walletlock command (as a way to stop PoS mining) takes like 30 seconds to execute with yacoind (with GUI client I need to terminate process).

What OS are you using, and what YAC build?

P.S. Thanks to St Bit for the promo thread and sairon for the pull request.

[forsetifox]

The November 18th to May 31st N change is going to be very good for the Yacoin price and network.

 

[sairon]

Well, I can make a Fast'n'Furious PoS yacoin-qt build for you if you want (remove the delay so it will hash like crazy, eating 100% cpu). Should be fairly easy to do, I'll look into it tomorrow. This way we can eliminate the possibility of a bug.

Sounds interresting.

As far as I understand is a PoS block generated for every imput, so those 10 adresses behave like 1000 with just one input each. The easiest would be to forward each adress to a new one via CC, but otherwise we could see if there is a bug somewhere. Has anyone experience with a single adress with a lot of eightible inputs for PoS?

No, those 10 addresses behave like 10 addresses. The PoS miner tries to add multiple small outputs into one block if it thinks it's necessary, but only from the same address (IIRC)

I think a fast and furious pos miner would be cool...I would dedicate 7 of my 8 threads to it and mine on my gpus with the spare core.

.
I'm quite sure one thread will be enough.

[SirMintALot]

The November 18th to May 31st N change is going to be very good for the Yacoin price and network.

 

Im not sure it will change much. With the last N change my 7790 lost 80% hashrate and my 7950 lost 40% hashrate, the funny thing is Im getting more coins than before. The CPU miners where also affected by the change (I guess 50% drop). IMHO the GPUs with lots of memory like the 7950 (3GB) are the winners, while normal GPU cards with 1GB RAM like the 7790 and CPUs are the losers. I guess it ill take another 1 or two N changes to hit those High End cards harder as well, but the small GPUs and CPUs are hit even worse with every N change. So I will probably get an AMD Hawaii (4 GB RAM, 512 bit memory Interface) for YACoin mining 

[ivanlabrie]

The November 18th to May 31st N change is going to be very good for the Yacoin price and network.

 

Im not sure it will change much. With the last N change my 7790 lost 80% hashrate and my 7950 lost 40% hashrate, the funny thing is Im getting more coins than before. The CPU miners where also affected by the change (I guess 50% drop). IMHO the GPUs with lots of memory like the 7950 (3GB) are the winners, while normal GPU cards with 1GB RAM like the 7790 and CPUs are the losers. I guess it ill take another 1 or two N changes to hit those High End cards harder as well, but the small GPUs and CPUs are hit even worse with every N change. So I will probably get an AMD Hawaii (4 GB RAM, 512 bit memory Interface) for YACoin mining 

My thoughts exactly...I'm gonna sell my 7970 and grab one of those.

[sairon]

Pushing CPU to 100% is not the right solution. Idea behind PoS is to use very little power to run the network, a so called eco-friendly cryptocoin.

Never said it's a solution. I proposed it as a troubleshooting procedure.

[aso118]

I think a fast and furious pos miner would be cool...I would dedicate 7 of my 8 threads to it and mine on my gpus with the spare core.

I agree - Sometimes I'm sitting on several transactions that are older than 30 days, but haven't minted yet.  It would be really nice to turn on a 'fast and furious POS miner' (might be a good name btw, lol) and mint several of them.

*snip*
The PoS reward splitting is not an issue (it also joins multiple small inputs into one large output - this already happended at least once, so I'm sure it works).

I did see this happen a few times in my wallet - where several small transactions merged through a POS block and ended ~11 YAC in size.   I did have a POS that didn't again recently.

http://yacexplorer.tk/tx/996917e79b248e35cb4c5f98df7e7cda6a5bd1caf1dcb908e2f871fe51681dbf#i0

I'm not sure why sometimes it will merge small transactions, and other times it doesn't.   As you can see from the link above, when it doesn't merge with another transaction, any profit is lost.

[sairon]

I did see this happen a few times in my wallet - where several small transactions merged through a POS block and ended ~11 YAC in size.   I did have a POS that didn't again recently.

http://yacexplorer.tk/tx/996917e79b248e35cb4c5f98df7e7cda6a5bd1caf1dcb908e2f871fe51681dbf#i0

I'm not sure why sometimes it will merge small transactions, and other times it doesn't.   As you can see from the link above, when it doesn't merge with another transaction, any profit is lost.

IMHO that's a rounding "error". The minimum PoS reward is 0.01 YAC (at least I think it is) and if your reward is below that, you get nothing. Are you sure you had multiple sufficiently small inputs on a single address (beware of change addresses!) when you minted that block?

EDIT: BTW, is the new logo already added in the official repo? If not, can someone please make those so I can build a new wallet with all the bells and whistles not yet included in joe's repo? Need 16x16, 32x32, 48x48, 80x80, 128x128, 256x256 px PNG logo and 48x48 ICO icon.

EDIT2: Found most of the images on github, just need the 256x256 px PNG. Also, fuck... I've deleted my dev virtual machine. -.-"

[SirMintALot]

Pushing CPU to 100% is not the right solution. Idea behind PoS is to use very little power to run the network, a so called eco-friendly cryptocoin.

Never said it's a solution. I proposed it as a troubleshooting procedure.

maybe you can add a new command like "pospriority" to yacoind / debug window to change the POS miner priority for testing purposes?