[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[Thirtybird]

FYI yac.coinmine.pl has 19mh of the 36 on the network as of right now

well, if there's only 36MH on the network, then there's the problem, yac.ltcoin.net is currently reporting is has 37 MH/sec...  Actually, this could be problematic as well as the mean hashrate is 72 MH/sec as reported on yacexplorer.tk

in my client it was 72MH 5 hours ago and didnt drop untill the last 2 or more hours to 36MH and now its back up so...

Your results in the client are going to be different depending on which client you have.  Because of the low CPU hashrate as N went up, WindMaster set it to report an average, but the hashrate is still pretty swingy.  That's why I was using the stats on yacexplorer.tk

[digger]

Seems every proof of stake will make proof of work invalid.

[theprofileth]

Um guys.... this isn't good


They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  

[WindMaster]

Seems every proof of stake will make proof of work invalid.

This may be partially correct, but I'm not in a good spot right now to go code diving.  The issue may be that if someone stakes PoS blocks while off-network, they may be able to trigger a reorg and orphan PoW blocks if they achieve a higher cumulative work for their off-network blockchain (meaning that the rest of the network did not stake enough PoS blocks in the meantime).  Someone may have just lucked out in this case and managed to stake two PoS blocks while the rest of the network had only staked one.  Not sure yet.  Someone who can go code diving should check how PoS blocks affect the cumulative work of a chain and under what circumstances someone off-network can make their own chain with higher cumulative work without actually having 51% of the hash power (or 51% of the coin stakes being generated).

From my recent investigation in the Elacoin client source while Elacoin was being 51%'d over and over, the answers will probably be in main.cpp in the AcceptBlock(), ConnectBlock() and CheckBlock() functions, or wherever else the Reorganize() function gets called from.  Normal behavior in Bitcoin and Litecoin derived coins is that the chain with the most cumulative work (difficulty) will win a reorg and block height has nothing to do with it, but I have not examined that part of the code on any PoS coin to see how PoS blocks factor into which chain has the highest cumulative work.

[WindMaster]

Um guys.... this isn't good

They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  

They're not quite getting all the blocks, there's quite a few discontinuities.  However, we do have a situation here where one pool has (or is bordering on having) more than 50% of the network hash power.  The threat to YAC at the moment isn't the mythical highly-optimized scrypt+chacha GPU miners or botnets, it's that a large number of people have all gotten the bright idea to all mine on one single pool.

[WindMaster]

Block height matters. Nodes will always switch to longest blockchain.

Negative, not if the longer chain has lower cumulative work (cumulative difficulty, in PoW-only coins).  Otherwise someone could 51% any of the coins that get stalled out in "high difficulty land" simply by waiting a while, mining an off-network blockchain from just before the previous difficulty retarget, achieving a lower difficulty, then outrunning everyone else on the public blockchain while having much less than 51% of the hash power.  Someone attempted that unsuccessfully on Elacoin a few days back, and failed dismally.  Their chain was significantly longer (in terms of block height) than the public blockchain, but had been mined at a lower difficulty, so lost and was orphaned in preference to the public blockchain.

Remember, just hours ago we witnessed a reorg to a shorter blockchain.

[WindMaster]

Block height matters. Nodes will always switch to longest blockchain.

Here's the code in the Litecoin client that chooses the winning (or "best") chain to reorg to:

Code:

        while (pindexIntermediate->pprev && pindexIntermediate->pprev->bnChainWork > pindexBest->bnChainWork)
        {
            vpindexSecondary.push_back(pindexIntermediate);
            pindexIntermediate = pindexIntermediate->pprev;
        }

        if (!vpindexSecondary.empty())
            printf("Postponing %i reconnects\n", vpindexSecondary.size());

        // Switch to new best branch
        if (!Reorganize(txdb, pindexIntermediate))

Note that block height is not considered anywhere in there, only the cumulative work of the chain (in bnChainWork) is used to make the decision.

[Thirtybird]

Um guys.... this isn't good

They are literally taking all the blocks. I mean like nearly all of them. I have been watching them for a while and I continue to see almost all the their block confirmation values are consecutive numbers.  

They're not quite getting all the blocks, there's quite a few discontinuities.  However, we do have a situation here where one pool has (or is bordering on having) more than 50% of the network hash power.  The threat to YAC at the moment isn't the mythical highly-optimized scrypt+chacha GPU miners or botnets, it's that a large number of people have all gotten the bright idea to all mine on one single pool.

I don't see the information in yacexplorer.tk, but does the block store who it was relayed by?  I know for bitcoin, there's information about how large each pool is based on this, and btcguild was close to 50% at one point, but it was easy to spot this and they closed new user registration at the time to combat the problem.

[Thirtybird]

I checked the YAC pools I knew of to look for the rate each were reporting:

yac.ltcoin.net : 49.3 MH/sec
yac.coinmine.pl : 23.4 MH/sec
P2Pool : 8.94 MH/sec

apparently, there aren't any other options other than solo mining 

perhaps we need one more non P2P pool to give some more options to keep the work spread out? 

[AGD]

CPU mining dead til August?

[eule]

Isn't it common practice for pool operators to close registration when hashrate is too close to 50%?

[Bakaboy]

CPU mining dead til August?

Perhaps even beyond that if an updated (or optimized) GPU client is released that tackles N >= 8192. Really, there is no comparison whatsoever with regards to hashing power. For example my quad processor (4P) AMD (Opteron Abu Dhabi) can barely manage 160Kh/s even when pushed to the limit. My 4P Intel EP-4650 does better but still hovering 180-200Kh/s. These machines cost at least $3000-4000 each when self built and using parts from fleabay. Commercial ones can cost > $10K each. Combined together, their hashing power is equivalent to that of a $300 7950, which is almost funny.

[x3maniac]

i have a problem sending funds

when i do

Code:

yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx

i get

Code:

error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried

yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate

so this is what i have tried so far.

breaking it into smaller portions., i have a total of 100 yac stuck in there. went from trying to pull 90 to 45 to 1 and still get the error.

removed everything and allow to redownload block chain. still error

moved wallet to windows 7 with yac client. shows the amount. but still same error.

i'm out of idea 

[BlazinBeaches]

Ok guys what's another good pool.  coinmine.pl is currently at 43% efficiency and dropping

Also why does the wallet always say checkpoint too old

**I moved here for now, seems to be working a lot better, no more constant rejected shares.
http://pool.yacointalk.com:8336/static/

[feeleep]

hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

[BlazinBeaches]

hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

Sounds good I will try it

**I get pool 0 down or credentials invalid

That's ok, I can tell you are working on coinmine.pl.  Efficiency has gone way up and my miners are running much better.  

[YacLives]

i have a problem sending funds

when i do

Code:

yacoind sendtoaddress xxxxxxx xx

i get

Code:

error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}

thanks in advanced

Ill try and help although ive never used yacoind to send funds

Firstly make sure your yacoind is synced first before you try sending funds type yacoind getinfo to check your balence to make sure you have funds

then yacoind getmininginfo to see what block your daemon is synced to as of right now mine says  88886

if its not synced then it wont let you send funds if it is synced let me know if that helps

i understand your running your own p2pool node i have one also but havent sent funds from it yet

and im not sure if you are able to send while its running with python as ive never tried

yes it is synced up, and yes i am runing my own p2pool node.

i turned it off and tried to send payment. no good.

try restarting it with the -rescan command it could be a number of things any chance you have looked at the debug log
maybe there are too many inputs also are you accounting for the transaction fee its hard to help if we i cant see any logs
because that error would come up for a number of reasons you can try running it with the command  yacoind -rescan -keypool 1000

Break the amount you want to send into few smaller ones. It is very likely that you are attempting to send so much inputs that YACoin client
refuses to create such transaction due to transaction size and / or fee limits.

As far as I know, -keypool value works only when making new wallet. It specifies the number of keys wallet is to keep as reserve at all times
and it is useful only if person is not making wallet backups frequently but regulary and frequently creates many new addresses for receiving coins.
If both criteria are fulfilled but person uses default keypool of 100, it can happen that when rolling back to old backup some coins will be missing
due to keypool of old wallet being exhausted, e.g. newer wallet "knows" more used keys than older one.

Thats correct its for creating reserve addresses I was trying to get him to throw random ideas at the problem notice how i didnt format -keypool 1000 properly
that was also a work of deductive arts Sherlock would be so proud, but thanks mate

so this is what i have tried so far.

breaking it into smaller portions., i have a total of 100 yac stuck in there. went from trying to pull 90 to 45 to 1 and still get the error.

removed everything and allow to redownload block chain. still error

moved wallet to windows 7 with yac client. shows the amount. but still same error.

i'm out of idea 

Can i have you address ill send you a chunk of YAC and see if you can send it back

[Joe_Bauers]

Thanks YacLives and Bitcoin Megastore for your debug logs.

PoS blocks 91036 and 91037 were staked by someone operating off-network (whether intentionally or unintentionally) and then reintroduced to the network, triggering the reorg and orphaning 75 blocks.  Anyone here have really good familiarity with the Novacoin PoS code?

Good to hear I didn't break YACoin...    

[feeleep]

hi

we are improving efficiency on old yac.coinmine.pl but in the meantime we opened new proportional pool: http://yacp.coinmine.pl

feeleep

Sounds good I will try it

**I get pool 0 down or credentials invalid

That's ok, I can tell you are working on coinmine.pl.  Efficiency has gone way up and my miners are running much better.  

This is new pool and requires new registration plus setting up even first worker...

[BlazinBeaches]

This is new pool and requires new registration plus setting up even first worker...

Awesome it's working now.  There was a different URL on the site before, but I see the new one.