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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 1056640 times)
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iheartcryptocoin
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January 25, 2014, 05:22:48 AM
 #4561

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=transatlantic_retirement_planning

This covers a lot of information required to understand investing
 
I like the idea of an investment fund.  It would have to be developed further so that everyone has clear expectations about it, but that's something I'd be inclined to invest in too.  One of my expectations would be that I would want nice slick website pages which explain in plain English every single project (a page for each one) with lots of clearly labeled pictures and plenty of discussion about how said project will improve my life.  All those pages would have to be easily found by visiting an easy to remember url.  The entire site should have an FAQ section, post who are the decision makers of the fund and how to reach them, indicate when things are up for a vote, and there should be a blog for project updates (categorized by projects so I could easily find all the updates on any particular project).  When you buy a share, that enters your email address (with your consent of course but it is strongly encouraged) onto the fund mailing list and shareholders are kept updated with everything relevant.  Part of the revenue could come from advertising on the site.

I suggest a 12 share bounty for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, and make sense. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares. Also, I'll invest a lot devcoins in the company if it's traded on Cryptostocks and the business plan looks good.

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Hunterbunter
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January 25, 2014, 06:07:11 AM
 #4562

I've set up a devcoin seed node here:

dvcnode.blisteringdevelopers.com:52333

If anyone can confirm it's seeding properly it'd be much appreciated.
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January 25, 2014, 06:39:24 AM
 #4563

I am using the latest sourceforge wallet version, and the tx does not show up on the blockchain.

My balance is right except for the transaction which took away 10 mil.

Any suggestions?

Any other solutions?  My tx is still in limbo

Should I revert back to the older client?

Do rescan didnt work? Can you try to redownload the blockchain? Delete your data folder but copy your wallet.dat file before you do! Then ensure your data directory only has the wallet.dat and maybe the conf file before restarting the qt.. it will start first block again let it finish..

But I presume since the tx didnt show up on blockchain that it got rejected... howver your balance should be right after the blockchain download for sure.. then try the tx again the same parameters.

Balance still shows 10 mil down

Weird... Was thr transaction 1 million or 10 million? So next thing is dump your private key save it into a text file and download old wallet. Then import the private key and let the block chain download.

In your console write dumpprivkey and later importprivkey [your private key]

Steps

1) goto qt console type dumpprivkey. Save the key in a textfile.
2) delete data directory including wallet file.
3) Install old client. Goto console type importprivkey followed by your private key you just saved.
4) let client sync up.


What is your devcoin address before you do this?

After you do this your address will change so any of your subscriptions to devtome or whatnot need your new address now as you will get a new address with a new wallet file.

I would save the wallet.dat file from you data directory before you delete it just for future reference.

Just so happens im in a similar situation now as I was trying a sendmany from the qt console and it ate 2 million in fees.. so I did it a bunch more times and fees were less.. I
checked the block explorer and my address still luckily showed my missing 2 million from my qt wallet...

Now I dumped my private key and deleted the wallet.dar( copied it out to somewhere else) and opened the qt client again to create a new wallet.dat. I imported my private key amd now downloading the blockchaim. I suspect your wallet.dat still shows the transactiom so you need to recreate the wallet or the rescan which should have worked too.

Either way your 10 mill transaction.. did it have any fees? I suspect there is a weird issue that once in a while the fee gets cranked up to unreasonable amounts. When you use the gui you can confirm to say no but if your using the daemon it wont confirm the fees before sending. So I wonder if the CENT to COIN renaming brought in this problem. I will test on older client to see if we had this problem , maybe someone has seen it. But it happens on the new client for sure.
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January 25, 2014, 10:04:48 AM
 #4564

I've set up a devcoin seed node here:

dvcnode.blisteringdevelopers.com:52333

If anyone can confirm it's seeding properly it'd be much appreciated.

What is a seed node and how does one confirm it is working properly  Smiley

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January 25, 2014, 11:11:47 AM
 #4565

I don't know what the actual correlation is, but assuming the 30% band implies it's high then that's trading correlation risk really, rather than hedging - a basis trade. Basis trades are great until they're not. You wrote: 'If devcoin gains in value, you would get paid more for your writing. If it falls, it will likely be in tandem with the fall of bitcoin and you will recover some of the losses with your bitcoin short hedge.' That also means if devcoin rises in tandem you will lose some of your gains with the bitcoin hedge.

The issue is that as a writer, writing for devcoins, the only risk you're really concerned about is dvc price falls, not rises. If it falls > 30% tolerance you've given yourself then you can be left worse off than just being long devcoin. So really you'd need to structure it so that the trade has skew which would need options.

The 30% band is based on btc and ltc fluctuations versus dvc since june 2013.

Yes I think options and esp devcoin options would be a superior hedge. If prices go up 10 fold like in 2013 you only lose your option value. If prices decline, you get to win something back.

But like I said before, not exactly sure what the vig on btc options is atm. If anyone has more exp with options have a look at anyoption.com and let me know.

Devcoin options would be ideal but not sure if there will be enough interest on both sides to create a market for it.
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January 25, 2014, 11:30:07 AM
 #4566

A dvc/fiat exchange, bank or investment fund might be a good idea. But they need to be subject to simple market forces and risk of loss like everything else. I'm not getting how a fund could be managed without reference to the market pricing you said was being avoided, except in just being a new market?

Im not sure what Ive come up with Weisoq, I wrote it up last night : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_fund

Ive never done anything like this and I admit absolute ignorance but the idea wouldnt go away lol
I like it - the idea of a dvc/$ exchange, particularly for devcoin where it makes sense for a project that appeals to non-techies to have a way to buy them without first having bitcoin. Where my view differs is I don't think it's possible to 'manage' with the depth you suggest without undermining the basic premise.

Probably the most important aspect for a trading exchange is liquidity - i.e. getting as many people with as many bids and offers involved as possible. Doing anything to restrict that will limit pricing and trading and leave the fund carrying the constant risk of having to make up the other side of trades. If you limit members to people who basically know about it, we can pretty much assume those people will be those earning or holding devcoin. Which means they will be sellers.

But it still needs buyers. Who will the buyers be and where will they get the $ from? I guess that would mean the $ have to come from the fund, perpetually, which to go full circle seems to undermine the idea of a real exchange with real prices, and is likely to lead to perpetual fund losses b/c it may be the only buyer.

The alternative would be to get basic dvc/$ going - just a normal exchange. If/when it proves to work with enough interest and liquidity then it may be possible to create a general fund that works to build an actual investment model. One option would be to see if one of the existing exchanges is able to add dvc/$, although pragmatically the fact that only really bitcoin has this might imply it's too early?
----
On your devtome suggestions article. Also very good ideas and similar to some thoughts of my own. This is limited right now by expertise and time. Rather than type it out again here's what I wrote before to explain. If a regular with PHP skills was willing to take up the ongoing job (and it would have to be a long-term commitment), and maybe if a couple more detome admins were added, then a lot more is possible. This also depends on the site hoster and others being ok with whoever's involved in maintaining plugins etc.

Quote
...a lot of that (indexing, visuals, categorisation etc) is already doable via dokuwiki plugins but (semi-quoting jasinlee who maintains devtome) it needs someone proficient in php to fix bugs as they add plugins and ongoing. If you google dokuwiki plugins and other dokuwiki sites there's a lot out there, but it's open source and often never debugged.

This is why it's such a laborious, manual process with not great functionality, and always playing catchup with categorising. Focus still is going through all exisiting writing to check the basics let alone improvements.

Anything to improve things would be great by me, so good suggestion for ideas.

Edit: Also want to add that much of what you see on devtome is still in the process of working through checks for categorising, formatting, content. On top of dealing with new articles, giftculturewriting is working from existing Z-A and I'm on A-Z. Speaking for myself, I'm still on A...

I know gift has some good ideas for better front page presentation and usability, but for now it's basically just a tree of topics - categories - subcategories -articles to make the process above quicker and easier, and can then just work on rolling new submissions and look at visuals.

If anyone has ideas (sticking with existing dokuwiki functionality and syntax for now as that's what there is) then please suggest them. It's taking a long time and we just haven't had time to get into that yet.
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January 25, 2014, 11:43:48 AM
 #4567

The 30% band is based on btc and ltc fluctuations versus dvc since june 2013.

Yes I think options and esp devcoin options would be a superior hedge. If prices go up 10 fold like in 2013 you only lose your option value. If prices decline, you get to win something back.

But like I said before, not exactly sure what the vig on btc options is atm. If anyone has more exp with options have a look at anyoption.com and let me know.

Devcoin options would be ideal but not sure if there will be enough interest on both sides to create a market for it.
I don't know anything about bitcoin options, and not enough about options generally to give advice. A 30% trading band doesn't necessarily mean there's high correlation. Do you know what the actual correlation is? On cointegration rather than correlation, it may make more sense to take positions on mean reversion rather than trying to synthesise a 'hedge'. Again, that still doesn't address skew or interest bias.
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January 25, 2014, 12:19:00 PM
 #4568

The 30% band is based on btc and ltc fluctuations versus dvc since june 2013.

Yes I think options and esp devcoin options would be a superior hedge. If prices go up 10 fold like in 2013 you only lose your option value. If prices decline, you get to win something back.

But like I said before, not exactly sure what the vig on btc options is atm. If anyone has more exp with options have a look at anyoption.com and let me know.

Devcoin options would be ideal but not sure if there will be enough interest on both sides to create a market for it.
I don't know anything about bitcoin options, and not enough about options generally to give advice. A 30% trading band doesn't necessarily mean there's high correlation. Do you know what the actual correlation is? On cointegration rather than correlation, it may make more sense to take positions on mean reversion rather than trying to synthesise a 'hedge'. Again, that still doesn't address skew or interest bias.

Bitcoin rose over 50 fold in 2013, litecoin rose even more in terms of fiat. A deviation of 30% is small compared to the 5000% gains recorded by btc. In practical terms, this would mean that if you had your funds in devcoins instead of btc/ltc your returns would be almost the same in terms of usd +-30%. Since we're talking about hedging the risk in terms of fiat here, I consider the 30% difference negligible . The real question is of course how long will the correlation last.
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January 25, 2014, 12:33:10 PM
 #4569

I like it - the idea of a dvc/$ exchange, particularly for devcoin where it makes sense for a project that appeals to non-techies to have a way to buy them without first having bitcoin. Where my view differs is I don't think it's possible to 'manage' with the depth you suggest without undermining the basic premise.

Probably the most important aspect for a trading exchange is liquidity - i.e. getting as many people with as many bids and offers involved as possible. Doing anything to restrict that will limit pricing and trading and leave the fund carrying the constant risk of having to make up the other side of trades. If you limit members to people who basically know about it, we can pretty much assume those people will be those earning or holding devcoin. Which means they will be sellers.

But it still needs buyers. Who will the buyers be and where will they get the $ from? I guess that would mean the $ have to come from the fund, perpetually, which to go full circle seems to undermine the idea of a real exchange with real prices, and is likely to lead to perpetual fund losses b/c it may be the only buyer.

The alternative would be to get basic dvc/$ going - just a normal exchange. If/when it proves to work with enough interest and liquidity then it may be possible to create a general fund that works to build an actual investment model. One option would be to see if one of the existing exchanges is able to add dvc/$, although pragmatically the fact that only really bitcoin has this might imply it's too early?

I will be exploring it a bit more, Ive also asked in a couple of places for some advice in the areas I have no prior knowledge.

Quote
On your devtome suggestions article. Also very good ideas and similar to some thoughts of my own. This is limited right now by expertise and time. Rather than type it out again here's what I wrote before to explain. If a regular with PHP skills was willing to take up the ongoing job (and it would have to be a long-term commitment), and maybe if a couple more detome admins were added, then a lot more is possible. This also depends on the site hoster and others being ok with whoever's involved in maintaining plugins etc.


Ok... well..I dont know if regular means talkative or long time contributor but Im sure I have talkative covered Cheesy

I have enough basic php skills to manage the SQL databases for the websites I build/manage and have had to teach myself to fix errors so I'm always up for learning more. I am pretty confident I can work with the Dokuwiki format and there seems to be a heap of support articles/documentation to help as well.. Can I put my hand up for exploring this further and maybe getting it done?

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January 25, 2014, 03:30:30 PM
 #4570


Quote
On your devtome suggestions article. Also very good ideas and similar to some thoughts of my own. This is limited right now by expertise and time. Rather than type it out again here's what I wrote before to explain. If a regular with PHP skills was willing to take up the ongoing job (and it would have to be a long-term commitment), and maybe if a couple more detome admins were added, then a lot more is possible. This also depends on the site hoster and others being ok with whoever's involved in maintaining plugins etc.


Ok... well..I dont know if regular means talkative or long time contributor but Im sure I have talkative covered Cheesy

I have enough basic php skills to manage the SQL databases for the websites I build/manage and have had to teach myself to fix errors so I'm always up for learning more. I am pretty confident I can work with the Dokuwiki format and there seems to be a heap of support articles/documentation to help as well.. Can I put my hand up for exploring this further and maybe getting it done?

If you need help with anything I will be willing to give some time to helping you out with the PHP/MySQL things. DokuWiki isn't that difficult. Just have to get around the quirks compared with the robustness of MediaWiki. Let me know if you need anything moving forward with it Melodiem.

Earn Devcoins by Writing | The Young Mage | DevCoin / DevTome Info Prototype Website
DVC:   1ARHF6HmFL87Rw29qZi1x5TGTDzFDQxMFH
BTC:   19w38CCB8YaxmJHkNH8gMjZYjw64SkQCcM
DODG: DNzDJTJrPEsSYpDGmD2iCFUfK8iJjeqm7C
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January 25, 2014, 07:30:04 PM
 #4571

I like it - the idea of a dvc/$ exchange, particularly for devcoin where it makes sense for a project that appeals to non-techies to have a way to buy them without first having bitcoin.

I think everyone is to fixed on the US dollar.
Even with a DVC/$ service most of the planet would need a $/useful service.

What we need is a DVC/useful exchange. Like  localbitcoins.com .
That way everyone can get involved.

ThinkI

Earn DevCoins by doing stuff you enjoy! Cool
BTC: 1AxYGFDnnw1PUo8TbQ83PCrenjQJBYU41Z | DVC: 1HKK5tswf8mXGsQng5naNEeqY44ZTHD3MY
Is this the best way to mine BitCoin?
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January 25, 2014, 10:34:29 PM
 #4572

I think everyone is to fixed on the US dollar.
Even with a DVC/$ service most of the planet would need a $/useful service.

What we need is a DVC/useful exchange. Like  localbitcoins.com .
That way everyone can get involved.

ThinkI
I'm not in the US. Views above are in context of relative types of exchanges not overall preferences, and I don't think there's enough 2-way interest yet to sustain an exchange. But I'm not against anyone testing ideas if I'm wrong.

Something like a work/bounty exchange and something like localbitcoin would be my top picks for useful.
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January 25, 2014, 10:41:10 PM
 #4573

I think everyone is to fixed on the US dollar.
Even with a DVC/$ service most of the planet would need a $/useful service.

What we need is a DVC/useful exchange. Like  localbitcoins.com .
That way everyone can get involved.

ThinkI
I'm not in the US. Views above are in context of relative types of exchanges not overall preferences, and I don't think there's enough 2-way interest yet to sustain an exchange. But I'm not against anyone testing ideas if I'm wrong.

Something like a work/bounty exchange and something like localbitcoin would be my top picks for useful.

I want to set up a work/bounty exchange and build upon it as time goes on. I don't know enough right now though as to how DevCoin works or the direction that UTB wants to take it. I will start working out a design plan and make another prototype and see how it fits in and how we can build it  over time.

Earn Devcoins by Writing | The Young Mage | DevCoin / DevTome Info Prototype Website
DVC:   1ARHF6HmFL87Rw29qZi1x5TGTDzFDQxMFH
BTC:   19w38CCB8YaxmJHkNH8gMjZYjw64SkQCcM
DODG: DNzDJTJrPEsSYpDGmD2iCFUfK8iJjeqm7C
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January 25, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
 #4574

and the US Dollar is not what it once was. the point i was heading towards in that post, is that the gold and silver that once backed US currency was "proof of work", but since the US has decoupled the currency from the proof of work it is no longer a stable currency. digital coins have "proof of work" built-in, and to treat them like fiat currency that everyone is familiar with, is a mistake. it is fiat currency that no longer has proof of work backing it. gold and silver will never lose their value, because they exist physically. digital coin exist as bits and bytes in a distributed global network, so even if they are "intangible", they do in a sense exist everywhere, and even if there were some kind of widespread disaster, somewhere on earth a valid copy of the various blockchains could be found, but in a disaster on a huge scale like that might make fiat currencies worthless....

on the other hand, having a "reserve bank" for devcoin would probably be a bad idea. look around the world and see what happens when central banks manipulate their nation's currency. the manipulation introduced by the use of fractional reserve banking, and manipulating interest rates, often lead to a currency collapsing. one problem i see with bitcoin, is that once there are no more bitcoins produced by mining, the miners will want to make up the difference in transaction fees, with the ultimate end result that bitcoin may become more expensive to use, than to own. i know it's simplistic to look at it that way, but the possibility does exist.

what i would rather see is an exchange that deals with "proof of work", i.e. digital coin and tangibles (gold silver, copper). this would make more sense. the transactions would be taxable, just like fiat transactions, but you would have a proof of work exchanged directly for another proof of work.... just my opinion.... fwiw
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January 25, 2014, 11:03:54 PM
 #4575

I propose a 30-share bounty for a devcoin armory wallet, similar to bitcoin armory (with offline wallet capabilities, etc.)

Any objections or changes?

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=transatlantic_retirement_planning

This covers a lot of information required to understand investing
 

I'm not very sure if this counts as an "investment", since it is a "guide".
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January 26, 2014, 12:42:54 AM
 #4576

I propose a 30-share bounty for a devcoin armory wallet, similar to bitcoin armory (with offline wallet capabilities, etc.)

Any objections or changes?

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=transatlantic_retirement_planning

This covers a lot of information required to understand investing
 

I'm not very sure if this counts as an "investment", since it is a "guide".

The more secure my Devcoins are the better...it sounds like a good idea.

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dalamar96
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January 26, 2014, 01:27:29 AM
Last edit: January 26, 2014, 01:52:21 AM by dalamar96
 #4577

I propose a 30-share bounty for a devcoin armory wallet, similar to bitcoin armory (with offline wallet capabilities, etc.)

Any objections or changes?

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=transatlantic_retirement_planning

This covers a lot of information required to understand investing
 

I'm not very sure if this counts as an "investment", since it is a "guide".

I'll take a look into this, may not be anything too big.

Edit: I take that back, just building on windows is a job. I will keep looking though Smiley

Earn Devcoins by Writing | The Young Mage | DevCoin / DevTome Info Prototype Website
DVC:   1ARHF6HmFL87Rw29qZi1x5TGTDzFDQxMFH
BTC:   19w38CCB8YaxmJHkNH8gMjZYjw64SkQCcM
DODG: DNzDJTJrPEsSYpDGmD2iCFUfK8iJjeqm7C
melodiem
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January 26, 2014, 01:49:18 AM
 #4578

what i would rather see is an exchange that deals with "proof of work", i.e. digital coin and tangibles (gold silver, copper). this would make more sense. the transactions would be taxable, just like fiat transactions, but you would have a proof of work exchanged directly for another proof of work.... just my opinion.... fwiw

From an investment perspective this is a great idea but for many of the writers being paid shares each month, its about an income to live on, not invest. (edit) and I suspect that if developers are paid in DVC this would be the case for many as well.

(I think) it would be great if the value backing DVC was actual "proof of work" and that developers, writers and creators would be the determining factor as to what their work is worth. For example if all Open Source developers quoted and accepted DVC for their work and they had some way to convert that payment to use able/necessary goods and services, the value of DVC could be supported by its own value to users, not outside forces/alternative currencies/commodities.

I suspect that is a fairly utopian view, but I do think it is do-able Wink

melodiem
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January 26, 2014, 02:09:12 AM
 #4579

I propose a 30-share bounty for a devcoin armory wallet, similar to bitcoin armory (with offline wallet capabilities, etc.)
Any objections or changes?

Is it possible to approach the people who built Bitcoin armoury and invite them to help with this? From what I understand if something can be configured for BTC it can be configured to any other alt currency? (and I do not mean to make that sound simplistic, I am aware the kind of coding and knowledge required) or is there a reason these projects/bounties are not offered more publicly?

Just a suggestion and Im way outta my depth at 5'4 so I'll stop now  Cool

dalamar96
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January 26, 2014, 02:11:24 AM
 #4580

I propose a 30-share bounty for a devcoin armory wallet, similar to bitcoin armory (with offline wallet capabilities, etc.)
Any objections or changes?

Is it possible to approach the people who built Bitcoin armoury and invite them to help with this? From what I understand if something can be configured for BTC it can be configured to any other alt currency? (and I do not mean to make that sound simplistic, I am aware the kind of coding and knowledge required) or is there a reason these projects/bounties are not offered more publicly?

Just a suggestion and Im way outta my depth at 5'4 so I'll stop now  Cool

Exactly, it is open source, that is what I am doing right now, getting set up to go through it in linux (have to re-do my laptop back to linux) and see what I can see about converting it to support DVC. I may contact the E^iPi but I am sure they are working on the base and won't have much time for me Smiley  I could be wrong, but I would like to come to them with specifics rather then just, "How can I make this work for DVC?" heh 

Earn Devcoins by Writing | The Young Mage | DevCoin / DevTome Info Prototype Website
DVC:   1ARHF6HmFL87Rw29qZi1x5TGTDzFDQxMFH
BTC:   19w38CCB8YaxmJHkNH8gMjZYjw64SkQCcM
DODG: DNzDJTJrPEsSYpDGmD2iCFUfK8iJjeqm7C
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