[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[Unthinkingbit]

Novacadian made two way email on his test forum at:
http://trollkeep.com/forum/

I sent an email from my forum account to unthinkingbit@gmail.com and replied to it from gmail, and it went my forum inbox. For this Novacadian gets half of the 48 shares plus 6 million devcoin bounty forum email bounty. That bounty is closed. When Novacadian gets it working on coinzen, then he and Tenthirtyone will share the remainder, each will get 12 shares plus 1.5 million devcoins.

The ultimate email plan is to have a challenge response system, where a sender not on the recipient's whitelist has to pay about 30 cents in cryptocurrency to send to a coinzen account. This would stop spam completely and is a difficult project. I suggest a payment of 96 shares to Novacadian and Tenthirtyone to implement challenge response. Then another 96 shares to implement payment challenge response. This would be 3/4 for Novacadian and 1/4 for Tenthirtyone. If the basic challenge response is not implemented in two months, this would become an open bounty.

Any objections, or should something be changed?

[1714066975]

1714066975

[1714066975]

1714066975

[1714066975]

1714066975

[eeh]

Sent from the forum to gmail and gmail back to the forum. Deja vu.

[melodiem]

A dvc/fiat exchange, bank or investment fund might be a good idea. But they need to be subject to simple market forces and risk of loss like everything else. I'm not getting how a fund could be managed without reference to the market pricing you said was being avoided, except in just being a new market?

Im not sure what Ive come up with Weisoq, I wrote it up last night : http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_fund

Ive never done anything like this and I admit absolute ignorance but the idea wouldnt go away lol

[sidhujag]

Novacadian made two way email on his test forum at:
http://trollkeep.com/forum/

I sent an email from my forum account to unthinkingbit@gmail.com and replied to it from gmail, and it went my forum inbox. For this Novacadian gets half of the 48 shares plus 6 million devcoin bounty forum email bounty. That bounty is closed. When Novacadian gets it working on coinzen, then he and Tenthirtyone will share the remainder, each will get 12 shares plus 1.5 million devcoins.

The ultimate email plan is to have a challenge response system, where a sender not on the recipient's whitelist has to pay about 30 cents in cryptocurrency to send to a coinzen account. This would stop spam completely and is a difficult project. I suggest a payment of 96 shares to Novacadian and Tenthirtyone to implement challenge response. Then another 96 shares to implement payment challenge response. This would be 3/4 for Novacadian and 1/4 for Tenthirtyone. If the basic challenge response is not implemented in two months, this would become an open bounty.

Any objections, or should something be changed?

96 shares is on par with an open source devcoin atm machine... is this equivalent work?

[markm]

Since the email is already being intercepted firing off a response to it does not sound hard, the same procmail or whatever tool that does the intercepting is designed already to do recipes that send responses as well as recipes that file the emails into different places or recipients or mailboxes or send them to scripts etc etc so respondng is trivial.

Figuring out whether someone paid something would be the hard part.

There would need to be some way of checking whether the address they were told to pay to did get paid to.

This could be an income for the forum by the sound of it?

Since it wouldn't probably be giving out addresses belonging to the email recipient as payment addresses but, rather, addresses belonging to the forum email interception system itself?

Would they be paying via a third party payment processor so that they have choices of what kinds of (crypto)currencies to pay with?

Presumably using a third party of that kind would be easier than dealing directly with one or more coin daemons?

-MarkM-

[Unthinkingbit]

..
96 shares is on par with an open source devcoin atm machine... is this equivalent work?

It is much less work than an open source devcoin atm. However, 96 shares is nowhere near enough for the atm, it would probably be at least a thousand shares. All the bounty for the atm got was complaints that it was not big enough. The reason the boounty was offered is because it was asked for, it is not enough to get the atm because devcoin can't afford that yet.

Since the email is already being intercepted firing off a response to it does not sound hard, the same procmail or whatever tool that does the intercepting is designed already to do recipes that send responses as well as recipes that file the emails into different places or recipients or mailboxes or send them to scripts etc etc so respondng is trivial.

The email bounty was there for about 6 months before it worked when I tested it. The challenge response is harder than just email. I don't want to wait another 6 months, I want it now.

Figuring out whether someone paid something would be the hard part.

There would need to be some way of checking whether the address they were told to pay to did get paid to.

It would go to a forum wallet, so the forum would have to check that wallet or a block explorer.

This could be an income for the forum by the sound of it?

Yes, but it would be small, that's just a nice bonus from stopping spam.

Since it wouldn't probably be giving out addresses belonging to the email recipient as payment addresses but, rather, addresses belonging to the forum email interception system itself?

Would they be paying via a third party payment processor so that they have choices of what kinds of (crypto)currencies to pay with?

The addresses would belong to the forum email system. It's up to the developer how to the handle payments.

Presumably using a third party of that kind would be easier than dealing directly with one or more coin daemons?

Alternately, they could check existing block explorers. That would mean a lag of typically ten minutes, but that's not a big deal because the average lag from answering an email is at least several hours.

[sidhujag]

I created the first iteration of the auction business plan:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

please review.

Thanks
Jag

[markm]

I created the first iteration of the auction business plan:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

please review.

Thanks
Jag

Oh gosh don't accept paypal! YOu need non-reversible money otherwise you just become a place where people can turn stolen paypal accounts into easily resold good such as iPads iPhones or whatever you plan to auction.

Also get rid of this idea buying objects with shares then auctioning the objects.

Sell bids, and do not buy any objects that you do not have enough cash on hand (from sales of bids) to buy.

It is bad enough that likely we will end up having to spend shares on staff for this thing. If it cannot sell enough bids to buy things to auction forget it as untenable.

Also this makes sure it stays tenable, since if people keep it secret enough that they end up buying each item for one bid per item at least the damn item won't have cost us more than $0.60 (one bid) to buy. If people want nice things to bid on let them buy enough bids to enable us to get nice things to put up for auction.

There is enough incentive already for the site operators to deliberately have promotion fail so they are the only bidders, without letting what they bid on be worth more than the amount of bids they their cronies their families etc bought.

-MarkM-

[sidhujag]

I created the first iteration of the auction business plan:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=auction_business

please review.

Thanks
Jag

Oh gosh don't accept paypal! YOu need non-reversible money otherwise you just become a place where people can turn stolen paypal accounts into easily resold good such as iPads iPhones or whatever you plan to auction.

Also get rid of this idea buying objects with shares then auctioning the objects.

Sell bids, and do not buy any objects that you do not have enough cash on hand (from sales of bids) to buy.

It is bad enough that likely we will end up having to spend shares on staff for this thing. If it cannot sell enough bids to buy things to auction forget it as untenable.

Also this makes sure it stays tenable, since if people keep it secret enough that they end up buying each item for one bid per item at least the damn item won't have cost us more than $0.60 (one bid) to buy. If people want nice things to bid on let them buy enough bids to enable us to get nice things to put up for auction.

There is enough incentive already for the site operators to deliberately have promotion fail so they are the only bidders, without letting what they bid on be worth more than the amount of bids they their cronies their families etc bought.

-MarkM-

Ahh I see, yea I just said IF we accept paypal(fiat)... but I suggested we do not offer paypal just coinpayments.

I guess we can start off by selling bids before auctions, just that I don't see how this would work. People want to "see" first then act... rather than acting first then "seeing". We will only have people sign up that fully get ahead of time what we are trying to do, rather than inticing people through things that they may want or need. We can avoid any upfront costs by selling the bids just to see using your method, since people were already interested in it! and go from there... lets see what others have to say.

[markm]

I already explained that.

Tell people up front how many bids we need to sell before the auction can start.

That way if they want the auction to start soon they need to cause bids to be sold faster.

If they don't mind waiting a few weeks for the uaction to start, they can keep the site secret so that it takes forever to sell enough bids to enable us to start the auction.

Want that iPad soon? Tell everyone you know about the site.

Not in a hurry to bid on an iPad? Keep the site secret so we never sell enough bids to buy an iPad thus never start an auction auctioning an iPad.

Simple.

You can still entice using things they need. Ashop has a wishlist, you can look at the wishlists to see what people wish we would auction, and announce that if we sell enough bids we will auction one.

You claim the method of auction is lucrative.

If so once we have auctioned one iPad we should have profits from that enough to buy two or dozens more.

If not, again, the thing is not even paying for itself so should be abandoned as sorry the founders were not afterall the awesome marketers they imagined themselves to be, their mailing lists were not large enough or responsive enough to bring in enough traffic to sustain such a site, maybe they should build their mailing lists a few more years until they do have enough hundreds of thousands or millions of people on their mailing lists to be able to drive enough traffic to sustain such a site.

Why are you so determined to have your mom's iPad bought for you by us? What is this drive you have to get us to buy you one?

It seems suspicious, as if you already figured out the "tell only your friends family and cronies about it so you can scam us out of shitloads of gadgets" scam.

If the damn thing is so damn lucrative it damn well should be able to pay its own way.

If not then sorry you were totally ignorant of how lucrative those things are, it is not afterall the latest and greatest how to get rich on the internet website type afterall.

Such sites are probably extremely expensive to market because no one has any incentive, normally, to tell anyone about them as more users means more competitors in auctions which means higher priced goods. So maybe you should start figuring out how your television ads are going to attract more users than qibid's television ads...

Or, tell people item X will not be auctioned until Y number of bids have been sold, so that if they want the auction to ever start at all they'd better tell all their friends and family to come and buy bids.

Maybe even tell them some clever stragegies, such as picking an item they do NOT want to bid on, and advertising the upcoming auction of THAT item on forums etc where people who are into THAT kind of stuff hang out, so that floods of people will come to buy bids for the "white elephant" causing enough bids to be sold for the iPad you want to finally come up for auction. (As well as the "white elephant", of course, but you don't care about that, you just want elephant lovers to come buy bids so your iPad auction will start...)

NOTE: REMEMBER too that the VAST MAJORITY of users of such sites basically get ripped off. So expect to need constant NEW floods of users as you probably will find you lose users at a massive massive rate. Also most people who ever used any such site also mostly got ripped off so expect that maybe a vast majority of them already know better than to use such a site. So you will probably need to spend far far more on television ads than you ever spend on things to auction.

-MarkM-

[iheartcryptocoin]

Hey Unthinkabit

Are bounties these still active?  Do you have any additional specs for what the end result should look like?

18 shares for a price ticker in a forum

24 shares for automatic vote counting of public 0-99 range votes

12 shares for a link generated from a post title

..
Maybe with the new DVC value (and it's still rising) we could have a new bounty for upgraded clients across all platforms - with some nice new features integrated such an integrated exchange, price ticker, messaging, voting on new open source projects to sponsor even, easypost to Devtome? etc

I don't want to add anything to the client, because every feature is a potential monetary exploit.

However, a forum doesn't hold money, so features could be added there safely. The integrated exchange would itself be exploited if the forum was hacked into, so it shouldn't be integrated. A price ticker is safe, and would be great for each alt coin. Messaging is already there. Voting on new open source projects to sponsor, or anything else, would be good. For easypost to devtome, sharing login might be a security risk, but it would be safe for a link to be generated to a devtome page from the post title.

I suggest the following:
18 shares for a price ticker in a forum
24 shares for automatic vote counting of public 0-99 range votes
12 shares for a link generated from a post title

These bounties would be doubled if the other forum bounties are doubled. Any objections, or should anything be changed?

Hey with the rising price may as well think big

I agree, we just have to think of good ways of spending the windfall

[sidhujag]

I already explained that.

Tell people up front how many bids we need to sell before the auction can start.

That way if they want the auction to start soon they need to cause bids to be sold faster.

If they don't mind waiting a few weeks for the uaction to start, they can keep the site secret so that it takes forever to sell enough bids to enable us to start the auction.

Want that iPad soon? Tell everyone you know about the site.

Not in a hurry to bid on an iPad? Keep the site secret so we never sell enough bids to buy an iPad thus never start an auction auctioning an iPad.

Simple.

You can still entice using things they need. Ashop has a wishlist, you can look at the wishlists to see what people wish we would auction, and announce that if we sell enough bids we will auction one.

You claim the method of auction is lucrative.

If so once we have auctioned one iPad we should have profits from that enough to buy two or dozens more.

If not, again, the thing is not even paying for itself so should be abandoned as sorry the founders were not afterall the awesome marketers they imagined themselves to be, their mailing lists were not large enough or responsive enough to bring in enough traffic to sustain such a site, maybe they should build their mailing lists a few more years until they do have enough hundreds of thousands or millions of people on their mailing lists to be able to drive enough traffic to sustain such a site.

Why are you so determined to have your mom's iPad bought for you by us? What is this drive you have to get us to buy you one?

It seems suspicious, as if you already figured out the "tell only your friends family and cronies about it so you can scam us out of shitloads of gadgets" scam.

If the damn thing is so damn lucrative it damn well should be able to pay its own way.

If not then sorry you were totally ignorant of how lucrative those things are, it is not afterall the latest and greatest how to get rich on the internet website type afterall.

Such sites are probably extremely expensive to market because no one has any incentive, normally, to tell anyone about them as more users means more competitors in auctions which means higher priced goods. So maybe you should start figuring out how your television ads are going to attract more users than qibid's television ads...

Or, tell people item X will not be auctioned until Y number of bids have been sold, so that if they want the auction to ever start at all they'd better tell all their friends and family to come and buy bids.

Maybe even tell them some clever stragegies, such as picking an item they do NOT want to bid on, and advertising the upcoming auction of THAT item on forums etc where people who are into THAT kind of stuff hang out, so that floods of people will come to buy bids for the "white elephant" causing enough bids to be sold for the iPad you want to finally come up for auction. (As well as the "white elephant", of course, but you don't care about that, you just want elephant lovers to come buy bids so your iPad auction will start...)

NOTE: REMEMBER too that the VAST MAJORITY of users of such sites basically get ripped off. So expect to need constant NEW floods of users as you probably will find you lose users at a massive massive rate. Also most people who ever used any such site also mostly got ripped off so expect that maybe a vast majority of them already know better than to use such a site. So you will probably need to spend far far more on television ads than you ever spend on things to auction.

-MarkM-

No I do not have an alternative motive don't worry. lol the way I think about it is that people would not join to buy bids unless the product offered infront of their eyes. So there is the drwaback of people keeping it a secret yes.. and to combat that I think your idea of preselling bids is good so we don't fall into that trap, and it might work out better as when demand picks up we will have more bids selling and more funds to buy things etc etc... Im not sure how it would work trying to presell people on bids based on telling them what they may get after they have the bids... just not sure about that, but it is a safer strategy, and really up to everyone else. Personally I prefer to have inventory upfront, its a safer approach to be able to sell what you have. We can always make sure we have inventory sold for atleast breakeven by setting a reserve auction at first, that maybe will re leave some of your suspicion? I will leave others to read it and decide what the best way to go about it is. I think what you said is a possibility and it is an option. I think some healthy competition to devtome would be good however and it is badly needed.

Remember that profits go to devcoin and not me so by you saying maybe the founders should have built up a list of more people to market it to, doesn't make much sense to me because whoever does it is for the good of everyne here, so why dont YOU do that and help get that list bigger and if YOU don't know how then get someone that does or help in any way you could to help market? After all the idea is looking or trying to look after YOUR best interest in rising coin value.

The early penny auction sites did have people feeling ripped off, and quibids still does but competition helped that... what others did was allow people to buy it now and give back the bids they used for the auction. If you read my proposal you would have seen the part I talked about the worst case buying the item at marked value we deem appropriate probably plus a small markup for our service (since they had a chance to buy it cheaper, but decided to take back their bids). That way if they feel they are overspending, they can simply use buy it now and buy it... this is a way for people NOT to feel ripped off. I think we should probably support this. This means that we would have to be able to buy the product on demand based on a buy it now, and tell the user that hey if you use buy it now, you may be waiting a little while until we procure another item of the same description.. since mostly it would be people who ended up overbidding and didn't want to throw their bids away.

However im not sure how preselling bids would work with this, and may not work with it... so at first we may want to do a presale, and later on switch over to be funded by devcoin after it gets going with enough people who already know about it. That is when we turn on the buy it now feature and really get the ball rolling.

Im probabyl going to buy this template that gives us full source, and it has all of these features that I proposed... I will play with it and make it look good I want to change a few things, text font etc add devcoin logo etc and then get people to try it out.... I want to talk to the developer first though... waiting for a response.

[Bittzy78]

I already explained that.

Tell people up front how many bids we need to sell before the auction can start.

That way if they want the auction to start soon they need to cause bids to be sold faster.

If they don't mind waiting a few weeks for the uaction to start, they can keep the site secret so that it takes forever to sell enough bids to enable us to start the auction.

Want that iPad soon? Tell everyone you know about the site.

Not in a hurry to bid on an iPad? Keep the site secret so we never sell enough bids to buy an iPad thus never start an auction auctioning an iPad.

Simple.

You can still entice using things they need. Ashop has a wishlist, you can look at the wishlists to see what people wish we would auction, and announce that if we sell enough bids we will auction one.

You claim the method of auction is lucrative.

If so once we have auctioned one iPad we should have profits from that enough to buy two or dozens more.

If not, again, the thing is not even paying for itself so should be abandoned as sorry the founders were not afterall the awesome marketers they imagined themselves to be, their mailing lists were not large enough or responsive enough to bring in enough traffic to sustain such a site, maybe they should build their mailing lists a few more years until they do have enough hundreds of thousands or millions of people on their mailing lists to be able to drive enough traffic to sustain such a site.

Why are you so determined to have your mom's iPad bought for you by us? What is this drive you have to get us to buy you one?

It seems suspicious, as if you already figured out the "tell only your friends family and cronies about it so you can scam us out of shitloads of gadgets" scam.

If the damn thing is so damn lucrative it damn well should be able to pay its own way.

If not then sorry you were totally ignorant of how lucrative those things are, it is not afterall the latest and greatest how to get rich on the internet website type afterall.

Such sites are probably extremely expensive to market because no one has any incentive, normally, to tell anyone about them as more users means more competitors in auctions which means higher priced goods. So maybe you should start figuring out how your television ads are going to attract more users than qibid's television ads...

Or, tell people item X will not be auctioned until Y number of bids have been sold, so that if they want the auction to ever start at all they'd better tell all their friends and family to come and buy bids.

Maybe even tell them some clever stragegies, such as picking an item they do NOT want to bid on, and advertising the upcoming auction of THAT item on forums etc where people who are into THAT kind of stuff hang out, so that floods of people will come to buy bids for the "white elephant" causing enough bids to be sold for the iPad you want to finally come up for auction. (As well as the "white elephant", of course, but you don't care about that, you just want elephant lovers to come buy bids so your iPad auction will start...)

NOTE: REMEMBER too that the VAST MAJORITY of users of such sites basically get ripped off. So expect to need constant NEW floods of users as you probably will find you lose users at a massive massive rate. Also most people who ever used any such site also mostly got ripped off so expect that maybe a vast majority of them already know better than to use such a site. So you will probably need to spend far far more on television ads than you ever spend on things to auction.

-MarkM-

No I do not have an alternative motive don't worry. lol the way I think about it is that people would not join to buy bids unless the product offered infront of their eyes. So there is the drwaback of people keeping it a secret yes.. and to combat that I think your idea of preselling bids is good so we don't fall into that trap, and it might work out better as when demand picks up we will have more bids selling and more funds to buy things etc etc... Im not sure how it would work trying to presell people on bids based on telling them what they may get after they have the bids... just not sure about that, but it is a safer strategy, and really up to everyone else. Personally I prefer to have inventory upfront, its a safer approach to be able to sell what you have. We can always make sure we have inventory sold for atleast breakeven by setting a reserve auction at first, that maybe will re leave some of your suspicion? I will leave others to read it and decide what the best way to go about it is. I think what you said is a possibility and it is an option. I think some healthy competition to devtome would be good however and it is badly needed.

Remember that profits go to devcoin and not me so by you saying maybe the founders should have built up a list of more people to market it to, doesn't make much sense to me because whoever does it is for the good of everyne here, so why dont YOU do that and help get that list bigger and if YOU don't know how then get someone that does or help in any way you could to help market? After all the idea is looking or trying to look after YOUR best interest in rising coin value.

The early penny auction sites did have people feeling ripped off, and quibids still does but competition helped that... what others did was allow people to buy it now and give back the bids they used for the auction. If you read my proposal you would have seen the part I talked about the worst case buying the item at marked value we deem appropriate probably plus a small markup for our service (since they had a chance to buy it cheaper, but decided to take back their bids). That way if they feel they are overspending, they can simply use buy it now and buy it... this is a way for people NOT to feel ripped off. I think we should probably support this. This means that we would have to be able to buy the product on demand based on a buy it now, and tell the user that hey if you use buy it now, you may be waiting a little while until we procure another item of the same description.. since mostly it would be people who ended up overbidding and didn't want to throw their bids away.

However im not sure how preselling bids would work with this, and may not work with it... so at first we may want to do a presale, and later on switch over to be funded by devcoin after it gets going with enough people who already know about it. That is when we turn on the buy it now feature and really get the ball rolling.

Im probabyl going to buy this template that gives us full source, and it has all of these features that I proposed... I will play with it and make it look good I want to change a few things, text font etc add devcoin logo etc and then get people to try it out.... I want to talk to the developer first though... waiting for a response.

If you go the preselling bids route (waiting for enough bid purchases before going live) that means that there is a chance that a product to bid on might never materialize. I would have no interest in buying bids unless I knew there were live products to bid on, others would probably think the same way.

It is probably not possible to start something like this without having to eat a loss on several of the first products. Eventually, If the products are good, crypto bids will follow. The main problem is getting past the barrier where people are sure the site is on the up and up. Once that barrier has been passed, the bids will come fast and furious.

Being able to use a "buy it now" feature and purchase products with Devcoins (instead of bidding) is something I would guarantee that I would take advantage of.

Possibly allowing the transfer of bids between members and the purchase of partial bids would be cool as well...

[sidhujag]

I already explained that.

Tell people up front how many bids we need to sell before the auction can start.

That way if they want the auction to start soon they need to cause bids to be sold faster.

If they don't mind waiting a few weeks for the uaction to start, they can keep the site secret so that it takes forever to sell enough bids to enable us to start the auction.

Want that iPad soon? Tell everyone you know about the site.

Not in a hurry to bid on an iPad? Keep the site secret so we never sell enough bids to buy an iPad thus never start an auction auctioning an iPad.

Simple.

You can still entice using things they need. Ashop has a wishlist, you can look at the wishlists to see what people wish we would auction, and announce that if we sell enough bids we will auction one.

You claim the method of auction is lucrative.

If so once we have auctioned one iPad we should have profits from that enough to buy two or dozens more.

If not, again, the thing is not even paying for itself so should be abandoned as sorry the founders were not afterall the awesome marketers they imagined themselves to be, their mailing lists were not large enough or responsive enough to bring in enough traffic to sustain such a site, maybe they should build their mailing lists a few more years until they do have enough hundreds of thousands or millions of people on their mailing lists to be able to drive enough traffic to sustain such a site.

Why are you so determined to have your mom's iPad bought for you by us? What is this drive you have to get us to buy you one?

It seems suspicious, as if you already figured out the "tell only your friends family and cronies about it so you can scam us out of shitloads of gadgets" scam.

If the damn thing is so damn lucrative it damn well should be able to pay its own way.

If not then sorry you were totally ignorant of how lucrative those things are, it is not afterall the latest and greatest how to get rich on the internet website type afterall.

Such sites are probably extremely expensive to market because no one has any incentive, normally, to tell anyone about them as more users means more competitors in auctions which means higher priced goods. So maybe you should start figuring out how your television ads are going to attract more users than qibid's television ads...

Or, tell people item X will not be auctioned until Y number of bids have been sold, so that if they want the auction to ever start at all they'd better tell all their friends and family to come and buy bids.

Maybe even tell them some clever stragegies, such as picking an item they do NOT want to bid on, and advertising the upcoming auction of THAT item on forums etc where people who are into THAT kind of stuff hang out, so that floods of people will come to buy bids for the "white elephant" causing enough bids to be sold for the iPad you want to finally come up for auction. (As well as the "white elephant", of course, but you don't care about that, you just want elephant lovers to come buy bids so your iPad auction will start...)

NOTE: REMEMBER too that the VAST MAJORITY of users of such sites basically get ripped off. So expect to need constant NEW floods of users as you probably will find you lose users at a massive massive rate. Also most people who ever used any such site also mostly got ripped off so expect that maybe a vast majority of them already know better than to use such a site. So you will probably need to spend far far more on television ads than you ever spend on things to auction.

-MarkM-

No I do not have an alternative motive don't worry. lol the way I think about it is that people would not join to buy bids unless the product offered infront of their eyes. So there is the drwaback of people keeping it a secret yes.. and to combat that I think your idea of preselling bids is good so we don't fall into that trap, and it might work out better as when demand picks up we will have more bids selling and more funds to buy things etc etc... Im not sure how it would work trying to presell people on bids based on telling them what they may get after they have the bids... just not sure about that, but it is a safer strategy, and really up to everyone else. Personally I prefer to have inventory upfront, its a safer approach to be able to sell what you have. We can always make sure we have inventory sold for atleast breakeven by setting a reserve auction at first, that maybe will re leave some of your suspicion? I will leave others to read it and decide what the best way to go about it is. I think what you said is a possibility and it is an option. I think some healthy competition to devtome would be good however and it is badly needed.

Remember that profits go to devcoin and not me so by you saying maybe the founders should have built up a list of more people to market it to, doesn't make much sense to me because whoever does it is for the good of everyne here, so why dont YOU do that and help get that list bigger and if YOU don't know how then get someone that does or help in any way you could to help market? After all the idea is looking or trying to look after YOUR best interest in rising coin value.

The early penny auction sites did have people feeling ripped off, and quibids still does but competition helped that... what others did was allow people to buy it now and give back the bids they used for the auction. If you read my proposal you would have seen the part I talked about the worst case buying the item at marked value we deem appropriate probably plus a small markup for our service (since they had a chance to buy it cheaper, but decided to take back their bids). That way if they feel they are overspending, they can simply use buy it now and buy it... this is a way for people NOT to feel ripped off. I think we should probably support this. This means that we would have to be able to buy the product on demand based on a buy it now, and tell the user that hey if you use buy it now, you may be waiting a little while until we procure another item of the same description.. since mostly it would be people who ended up overbidding and didn't want to throw their bids away.

However im not sure how preselling bids would work with this, and may not work with it... so at first we may want to do a presale, and later on switch over to be funded by devcoin after it gets going with enough people who already know about it. That is when we turn on the buy it now feature and really get the ball rolling.

Im probabyl going to buy this template that gives us full source, and it has all of these features that I proposed... I will play with it and make it look good I want to change a few things, text font etc add devcoin logo etc and then get people to try it out.... I want to talk to the developer first though... waiting for a response.

If you go the preselling bids route (waiting for enough bid purchases before going live) that means that there is a chance that a product to bid on might never materialize. I would have no interest in buying bids unless I knew there were live products to bid on, others would probably think the same way.

It is probably not possible to start something like this without having to eat a loss on several of the first products. Eventually, If the products are good, crypto bids will follow. The main problem is getting past the barrier where people are sure the site is on the up and up. Once that barrier has been passed, the bids will come fast and furious.

Being able to use a "buy it now" feature and purchase products with Devcoins (instead of bidding) is something I would guarantee that I would take advantage of.

Possibly allowing the transfer of bids between members and the purchase of partial bids would be cool as well...

Buy it now would be based on the price of the product in whatever currency we display so as a start if we do fiat then you would transfer in the equivalent amount of devcoins to purchase it.. essentially negating the need to dump at market to bitcoin to fiat to the store. The site still wants profit so there would be a slight markup but since things are usually cheaper online especially if we can workout a wholesale deal with suppliers then price should be on par with what you normally pay at the store anyway.. minus tax I guess too.

[Bittzy78]

I already explained that.

Tell people up front how many bids we need to sell before the auction can start.

That way if they want the auction to start soon they need to cause bids to be sold faster.

If they don't mind waiting a few weeks for the uaction to start, they can keep the site secret so that it takes forever to sell enough bids to enable us to start the auction.

Want that iPad soon? Tell everyone you know about the site.

Not in a hurry to bid on an iPad? Keep the site secret so we never sell enough bids to buy an iPad thus never start an auction auctioning an iPad.

Simple.

You can still entice using things they need. Ashop has a wishlist, you can look at the wishlists to see what people wish we would auction, and announce that if we sell enough bids we will auction one.

You claim the method of auction is lucrative.

If so once we have auctioned one iPad we should have profits from that enough to buy two or dozens more.

If not, again, the thing is not even paying for itself so should be abandoned as sorry the founders were not afterall the awesome marketers they imagined themselves to be, their mailing lists were not large enough or responsive enough to bring in enough traffic to sustain such a site, maybe they should build their mailing lists a few more years until they do have enough hundreds of thousands or millions of people on their mailing lists to be able to drive enough traffic to sustain such a site.

Why are you so determined to have your mom's iPad bought for you by us? What is this drive you have to get us to buy you one?

It seems suspicious, as if you already figured out the "tell only your friends family and cronies about it so you can scam us out of shitloads of gadgets" scam.

If the damn thing is so damn lucrative it damn well should be able to pay its own way.

If not then sorry you were totally ignorant of how lucrative those things are, it is not afterall the latest and greatest how to get rich on the internet website type afterall.

Such sites are probably extremely expensive to market because no one has any incentive, normally, to tell anyone about them as more users means more competitors in auctions which means higher priced goods. So maybe you should start figuring out how your television ads are going to attract more users than qibid's television ads...

Or, tell people item X will not be auctioned until Y number of bids have been sold, so that if they want the auction to ever start at all they'd better tell all their friends and family to come and buy bids.

Maybe even tell them some clever stragegies, such as picking an item they do NOT want to bid on, and advertising the upcoming auction of THAT item on forums etc where people who are into THAT kind of stuff hang out, so that floods of people will come to buy bids for the "white elephant" causing enough bids to be sold for the iPad you want to finally come up for auction. (As well as the "white elephant", of course, but you don't care about that, you just want elephant lovers to come buy bids so your iPad auction will start...)

NOTE: REMEMBER too that the VAST MAJORITY of users of such sites basically get ripped off. So expect to need constant NEW floods of users as you probably will find you lose users at a massive massive rate. Also most people who ever used any such site also mostly got ripped off so expect that maybe a vast majority of them already know better than to use such a site. So you will probably need to spend far far more on television ads than you ever spend on things to auction.

-MarkM-

No I do not have an alternative motive don't worry. lol the way I think about it is that people would not join to buy bids unless the product offered infront of their eyes. So there is the drwaback of people keeping it a secret yes.. and to combat that I think your idea of preselling bids is good so we don't fall into that trap, and it might work out better as when demand picks up we will have more bids selling and more funds to buy things etc etc... Im not sure how it would work trying to presell people on bids based on telling them what they may get after they have the bids... just not sure about that, but it is a safer strategy, and really up to everyone else. Personally I prefer to have inventory upfront, its a safer approach to be able to sell what you have. We can always make sure we have inventory sold for atleast breakeven by setting a reserve auction at first, that maybe will re leave some of your suspicion? I will leave others to read it and decide what the best way to go about it is. I think what you said is a possibility and it is an option. I think some healthy competition to devtome would be good however and it is badly needed.

Remember that profits go to devcoin and not me so by you saying maybe the founders should have built up a list of more people to market it to, doesn't make much sense to me because whoever does it is for the good of everyne here, so why dont YOU do that and help get that list bigger and if YOU don't know how then get someone that does or help in any way you could to help market? After all the idea is looking or trying to look after YOUR best interest in rising coin value.

The early penny auction sites did have people feeling ripped off, and quibids still does but competition helped that... what others did was allow people to buy it now and give back the bids they used for the auction. If you read my proposal you would have seen the part I talked about the worst case buying the item at marked value we deem appropriate probably plus a small markup for our service (since they had a chance to buy it cheaper, but decided to take back their bids). That way if they feel they are overspending, they can simply use buy it now and buy it... this is a way for people NOT to feel ripped off. I think we should probably support this. This means that we would have to be able to buy the product on demand based on a buy it now, and tell the user that hey if you use buy it now, you may be waiting a little while until we procure another item of the same description.. since mostly it would be people who ended up overbidding and didn't want to throw their bids away.

However im not sure how preselling bids would work with this, and may not work with it... so at first we may want to do a presale, and later on switch over to be funded by devcoin after it gets going with enough people who already know about it. That is when we turn on the buy it now feature and really get the ball rolling.

Im probabyl going to buy this template that gives us full source, and it has all of these features that I proposed... I will play with it and make it look good I want to change a few things, text font etc add devcoin logo etc and then get people to try it out.... I want to talk to the developer first though... waiting for a response.

If you go the preselling bids route (waiting for enough bid purchases before going live) that means that there is a chance that a product to bid on might never materialize. I would have no interest in buying bids unless I knew there were live products to bid on, others would probably think the same way.

It is probably not possible to start something like this without having to eat a loss on several of the first products. Eventually, If the products are good, crypto bids will follow. The main problem is getting past the barrier where people are sure the site is on the up and up. Once that barrier has been passed, the bids will come fast and furious.

Being able to use a "buy it now" feature and purchase products with Devcoins (instead of bidding) is something I would guarantee that I would take advantage of.

Possibly allowing the transfer of bids between members and the purchase of partial bids would be cool as well...

Buy it now would be based on the price of the product in whatever currency we display so as a start if we do fiat then you would transfer in the equivalent amount of devcoins to purchase it.. essentially negating the need to dump at market to bitcoin to fiat to the store. The site still wants profit so there would be a slight markup but since things are usually cheaper online especially if we can workout a wholesale deal with suppliers then price should be on par with what you normally pay at the store anyway.. minus tax I guess too.

One product that could be purchased and used by pretty much anyone in the world is a Steam digital gift card..
https://store.steampowered.com/account/redeemwalletcode

Heck, I would bid on one in the $25 - $40 range...at least a few bids.

[smeagol]

I am using the latest sourceforge wallet version, and the tx does not show up on the blockchain.

My balance is right except for the transaction which took away 10 mil.

Any suggestions?

Any other solutions?  My tx is still in limbo

Should I revert back to the older client?

Do rescan didnt work? Can you try to redownload the blockchain? Delete your data folder but copy your wallet.dat file before you do! Then ensure your data directory only has the wallet.dat and maybe the conf file before restarting the qt.. it will start first block again let it finish..

But I presume since the tx didnt show up on blockchain that it got rejected... howver your balance should be right after the blockchain download for sure.. then try the tx again the same parameters.

Balance still shows 10 mil down

[melodiem]

lol I still dont get why devtome is given shares when it is a bounty project.. I guess if there was
nothing else to spend on we could have made another devtome but maybr something to do with useful sourcecode.. if we gave more precedence to source we would get better output as a whole...Imagine the number of writers as developers instead.. we would have the best wallet softwares and probably some new features other coins dont have.

I totally support Open Source software being funded in any way, but for those of us who have put just as many years as the developers, developing our skills and art its hard not to take a little offence at that..

I dont think the issue is the types of content, so much as how its accessed/managed that gives the impression there is less valuable work on there, than there really is. I think there is already a very credible collection of factual, developer works. They are just a bit hard to find some days

Sidhujag, in the interests of bridging the percieved gap between writers and developers I present to you a method for categorising and navigating Devtome that could address your concerns somewhat and invite your feedback/thoughts/critique.

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_navigation

I also apologise for how long this took, I didnt know anything about dokuwiki and the user guide is heavy going. Every time I tried to read it I started to fall asleep!

[sidhujag]

I am using the latest sourceforge wallet version, and the tx does not show up on the blockchain.

My balance is right except for the transaction which took away 10 mil.

Any suggestions?

Any other solutions?  My tx is still in limbo

Should I revert back to the older client?

Do rescan didnt work? Can you try to redownload the blockchain? Delete your data folder but copy your wallet.dat file before you do! Then ensure your data directory only has the wallet.dat and maybe the conf file before restarting the qt.. it will start first block again let it finish..

But I presume since the tx didnt show up on blockchain that it got rejected... howver your balance should be right after the blockchain download for sure.. then try the tx again the same parameters.

Balance still shows 10 mil down

Weird... Was thr transaction 1 million or 10 million? So next thing is dump your private key save it into a text file and download old wallet. Then import the private key and let the block chain download.

In your console write dumpprivkey and later importprivkey [your private key]

Steps

1) goto qt console type dumpprivkey. Save the key in a textfile.
2) delete data directory including wallet file.
3) Install old client. Goto console type importprivkey followed by your private key you just saved.
4) let client sync up.


What is your devcoin address before you do this?

After you do this your address will change so any of your subscriptions to devtome or whatnot need your new address now as you will get a new address with a new wallet file.

I would save the wallet.dat file from you data directory before you delete it just for future reference.

[iheartcryptocoin]

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=transatlantic_retirement_planning

This covers a lot of information required to understand investing
 

I like the idea of an investment fund.  It would have to be developed further so that everyone has clear expectations about it, but that's something I'd be inclined to invest in too.  One of my expectations would be that I would want nice slick website pages which explain in plain English every single project (a page for each one) with lots of clearly labeled pictures and plenty of discussion about how said project will improve my life.  All those pages would have to be easily found by visiting an easy to remember url.  The entire site should have an FAQ section, post who are the decision makers of the fund and how to reach them, indicate when things are up for a vote, and there should be a blog for project updates (categorized by projects so I could easily find all the updates on any particular project).  When you buy a share, that enters your email address (with your consent of course but it is strongly encouraged) onto the fund mailing list and shareholders are kept updated with everything relevant.  Part of the revenue could come from advertising on the site.

I suggest a 12 share bounty for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, and make sense. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares. Also, I'll invest a lot devcoins in the company if it's traded on Cryptostocks and the business plan looks good.

[Hunterbunter]

I've set up a devcoin seed node here:

dvcnode.blisteringdevelopers.com:52333

If anyone can confirm it's seeding properly it'd be much appreciated.