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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 954107 times)
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markm
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January 26, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
 #4621

For hosting low traffic things (like demo of a site, for example) the hosting link in my forum sig is good, its free hosting gives you mysql and php, which is usually what you need. You get something like 5 gigs of data transfer per month, which is usually fine until you start to use a site for real whereipon upgrade is only a very few bucks a month.

I started with the free one and eventually upgraded all the way to one that lets me have ten mysql databases and not sure how many of that other type of sql that I don't use, and twenty subdomains on their set of generic domains (like mygamesonline and onlineshops and such).

I went on a spree of testing lots of different things that all wanted mysql and php so am almost out of databases now, I need to review all those tests at some point and figure out which ones to get rid of to free up some more databases so I can try out more stuff.

Even the lowest level of upgrade the data transfer and maybe disk storage goes unlimited, their limits are mostly about how many of the two types of SQL databases you get to have and how many domains and subdomains, it is a pretty good deal for web hosting. That is why I have never yet bothered to put an webservers on any of my dedicated servers (which I get from another company that does killer deals on dedicated servers, if you want dedicated PM me about them).

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sidhujag
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January 26, 2014, 08:52:56 PM
 #4622

I suspect that if quality is not met the payment is not made.. What do you think? Isnt this the problem with taking a service into the global marketplace?

If the intent of the project is to create free software for marketeers then the business plan that is suggested would work great. It is no different than how freelance programming is working in this day and age outside of this project, other than the fact that all works would be released in open source. This would have the effect of creating less potential work for software developers over time. As it is right now most paying in hard cash want the software to be proprietary so developers are continually re-inventing wheels. The only difference in the system being suggested here is that payment would be done in DVC instead of hard cash. This would be helpful for the speculators of DVC. To the developer there is absolutely no advantage to use this system. At least nothing that is obvious to me.

- Nova



I think the advantage would be that if your a developer there will be a portal for them to
go to do work and get paid. But yea kinda like freelancing.. So I think it will be a continual work in progress while we are smalltime.
novacadian
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January 26, 2014, 09:05:46 PM
 #4623

I think the advantage would be that if your a developer there will be a portal for them to
go to do work and get paid. But yea kinda like freelancing.. So I think it will be a continual work in progress while we are smalltime.

There are oodles of such sites out there already. To most people it would just seem a bother and risk to be paid in DVC if they are not into it already. We should really try to think outside the box in how we treat software developers, as that is the general intent of this project to my understanding.

Just an idea of thinking outside the box and not meant as something that need be actually used. Bounties are placed for all kinds of projects for fair and equatable bounties. Those projects are then bundled on DVDs that can be purchased from this project, much like Red Hat charges for Open Source.

The developers receive a fair and equatable wage and the project receives a product to sell for profit.

Let's not just go down the same road where the developer is there to be the pet monkey for the front office suits.

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
sidhujag
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January 26, 2014, 09:47:43 PM
 #4624

I think the advantage would be that if your a developer there will be a portal for them to
go to do work and get paid. But yea kinda like freelancing.. So I think it will be a continual work in progress while we are smalltime.

There are oodles of such sites out there already. To most people it would just seem a bother and risk to be paid in DVC if they are not into it already. We should really try to think outside the box in how we treat software developers, as that is the general intent of this project to my understanding.

Just an idea of thinking outside the box and not meant as something that need be actually used. Bounties are placed for all kinds of projects for fair and equatable bounties. Those projects are then bundled on DVDs that can be purchased from this project, much like Red Hat charges for Open Source.

The developers receive a fair and equatable wage and the project receives a product to sell for profit.

Let's not just go down the same road where the developer is there to be the pet monkey for the front office suits.

- Nova

Aah I see so that way people would come in with project requests that a developer would work on probably payment done via devcoin and its released under something like gpl where you can use it for profit but source is open.

After the source is created however what stops others from copying the idea? Today most people would not want to pay for something that someone else could end up using for free afterwards.
dalamar96
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January 26, 2014, 10:08:03 PM
 #4625

I would think they would pay to be the first to get it.

Earn Devcoins by Writing | The Young Mage | DevCoin / DevTome Info Prototype Website
DVC:   1ARHF6HmFL87Rw29qZi1x5TGTDzFDQxMFH
BTC:   19w38CCB8YaxmJHkNH8gMjZYjw64SkQCcM
DODG: DNzDJTJrPEsSYpDGmD2iCFUfK8iJjeqm7C
markm
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January 26, 2014, 10:10:15 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2014, 11:18:31 PM by markm
 #4626

We are not "most people".

We want people to be able to use the devcoin client free because we want people to be able to use devcoins.

We want people to be able to install an operating system free because we want to run programs on an operating system and making people pay for the operating system causes less people to be able to afford the platform on which our programs run.

We want people to be able to use Freeciv free because we don't want people to have to buy a proprietary program in order to participate in our game.

We want people to be able to use Crossfire RPG free for that same reason. Same for Battle for Wesnoth.

(Freeciv, Crossfire RPG and Battle for Wesnoth are all ways a person could participate in our game depending on what kind of scale they prefer to participate at.)

We want people to be able to use OpenSimulator free because some folks like a 3-dimensional immersive interface, so we would like people who prefer such an interface to be free to use it to interact with our game and the players of our game.

We want people to be able to set up community banking type systems (e.g. Cyclos)  free because we want the clans, guilds, nations and so on and so on in our game to be able to make the markets, banks and stock exchanges they build in their cities actually work.

Same for Open Transactions.

And so on...

-MarkM-

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sidhujag
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January 26, 2014, 10:40:19 PM
 #4627

ya nvm any devcoin funded project would obviously be open source. I was just thinking of private projects and that would be up to the person if they wanted to open it up or
not... but the service to use an exchange where you can post your project your willinh to pay in devcoins for is key ... it would help devcoin become the everyday coin you use to pay for things like you were saying before that it was considered as originally.
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January 26, 2014, 10:47:47 PM
 #4628


Aah I see so that way people would come in with project requests that a developer would work on probably payment done via devcoin and its released under something like gpl where you can use it for profit but source is open.

After the source is created however what stops others from copying the idea? Today most people would not want to pay for something that someone else could end up using for free afterwards.

As mentioned it was only an off the top of my head example of thinking outside the box. However if we are to follow that thought then one would not be copying the idea but in fact encouraged to do so. There is also support, something which Red Hat earns good profit supplying. If you wanted a mod or help installing software on the Devcoin DVD then who would you go to? Our stable of developers of course! If the funds given out as bounties, now, were directed to software development for development sake then the content of the DVDs would grow. Version 1.0 release would not have X piece of software that only came out in Version 1.1.

As the library grows so too could the DVDs. There could be categories. DVCGames, DVCOffice, etc.

Again this is an off the top of my head idea. My point is that we should really try to think outside the box in where to take things and not try to mimic the commercial nature of software development which, generally, has the developers on the lowest rung of earnings when what they are creating is, often, the only reason there are earnings in the first place.

- Nova

[Edit: typos]

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 26, 2014, 10:59:55 PM
 #4629

Sorry for the double post yet imagine bounties for white room copies of any successful proprietary commercial application out there. It would be nice to see the marketeers racing for the bottom like freelance programmers for a change. Smiley

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 26, 2014, 11:01:21 PM
 #4630


Aah I see so that way people would come in with project requests that a developer would work on probably payment done via devcoin and its released under something like gpl where you can use it for profit but source is open.

After the source is created however what stops others from copying the idea? Today most people would not want to pay for something that someone else could end up using for free afterwards.

As mentioned it was only an off the top of my head example of thinking outside the box. However if we are to follow that thought then one would not be copying the idea but in fact encouraged to do so. There is also support, something which Red Hat earns good profit supplying. If you wanted a mod or help installing software on the Devcoin DVD then who would you go to? Our stable of developers of course! If the funds given out as bounties, now, were directed to software development for development sake then the content of the DVDs would grow. Version 1.0 release would not have X piece of software that only came out in Version 1.1.

As the library grows so too could the DVDs. There could be categories. DVCGames, DVCOffice, etc.

Again this is an off the top of my head idea. My point is that we should really try to think outside the box in where to take things and not try to mimic the commercial nature of software development which, generally, has the developers on the lowest rung of earnings when what they are creating is, often, the only reason there are earnings in the first place.

- Nova

[Edit: typos]


This is very true its what led me to buy gpl code for wordpress templates.. you get latest greatest. The model is being used and it works.. gives a good impression too.
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January 26, 2014, 11:17:23 PM
 #4631

you may have to look at the exchanges separately and do some math....i'm using crypto-trade, and often the volume numbers there don't line up with the price jumps, so there's an average price adjustment that reflects all of the exchanges, but i think, at least on crypto-trade, the volume graph is for local trades on that particular exchange. i suppose if you signed up on all the exchanges, you could use their api functions to feed you volume data and price data, and merge it to get a clearer picture.... even pricing data seems to vary depending on the exchange. for instance on my multibit wallet for btc, i have mt gox and e-trade prices listed for btc, and they're often different by $100.00 or more. obviously mt gox does a higher volume, so it's prices will have a wider trading range.... which gives me an idea for a follow-up to my article on day trading......

Thanks Uncle Jed, I only need Devcoin and only for a supposition at this point so accuracy isnt as important as knowing the information is available.

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January 26, 2014, 11:20:42 PM
 #4632

Since as of yesterday I am the only person who put anything up on the DevBank/Cyclos site I think we may assume that the average writer is not very interested in doing anything but write about their chosen subject at the moment.
Of course a lack of promotion to writers may play a part in this.
This is not a good situation to be in and has to change otherwise developers will be justified to complain.

In any case writer bounties should go on the DevBank/Cyclos site.
There is no need for a bidding war as bounties can start low and be raised if no one takes them.
ThinkI

What is devbank/cyclos? Smiley


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January 26, 2014, 11:24:57 PM
 #4633

I think the advantage would be that if your a developer there will be a portal for them to
go to do work and get paid. But yea kinda like freelancing.. So I think it will be a continual work in progress while we are smalltime.

There are oodles of such sites out there already. To most people it would just seem a bother and risk to be paid in DVC if they are not into it already. We should really try to think outside the box in how we treat software developers, as that is the general intent of this project to my understanding.

Just an idea of thinking outside the box and not meant as something that need be actually used. Bounties are placed for all kinds of projects for fair and equatable bounties. Those projects are then bundled on DVDs that can be purchased from this project, much like Red Hat charges for Open Source.

The developers receive a fair and equatable wage and the project receives a product to sell for profit.

Let's not just go down the same road where the developer is there to be the pet monkey for the front office suits.

- Nova
I’d like to better understand what you’re saying. My main driver on Devcoin is basically the philosophy and actually trying to build something that can improve upon today. Not dreamy but pragmatic improvement.

My thoughts have been (1) on having somewhere visible to list and monitor official bounties, making them easier to maintain and find; (2) a separate general exchange in devcoins longer-term. The former wouldn't be 3rd party and the latter wouldn't involve receivers or necessarily be open source or for 'developers' only - it could be for any work (goods or services) in devcoins that supply/demand dictates.

You make some points I at least hadn't considered in terms of basic incentive and ethos that may mean the two still overlap, and/or perhaps gets too complicated and counter-productive? What do you think on the aspects of the concept that could be grown to maintain interest by all parties, without undermining that ethos? Or are you differentiating between the core remit of supporting work and open source development, and anything else that people might put together to maintain that 'economy' and wants or needs of those in it?
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January 26, 2014, 11:28:27 PM
 #4634

Since as of yesterday I am the only person who put anything up on the DevBank/Cyclos site I think we may assume that the average writer is not very interested in doing anything but write about their chosen subject at the moment.
Of course a lack of promotion to writers may play a part in this.
This is not a good situation to be in and has to change otherwise developers will be justified to complain.

In any case writer bounties should go on the DevBank/Cyclos site.
There is no need for a bidding war as bounties can start low and be raised if no one takes them.
ThinkI

What is devbank/cyclos? Smiley



It was mentioned earlier in the thread, just in the last few days.

Cyclos is a community banking system, free open source. It has stuff that lets you sell things on your website similar to how PayPal does, it has apps for umpteen different kinds of phones, it lets the admins define all kinds of currencies and what types of things (actions, transactions etc) to enable for each currency and so on. It even has gateways or something about external accounts so you can administer portions of your funds etc that reside in "traditional" banking systems by the look of it, and links between Cyclos instances so different community currencies can talk to each other.

All I have done is change the name of its default currency to Devcoins and max out the number of decimals it supports (which is four or five or six or so I think).

Basically to plug in more currencies would require understanding all the many many many options about the currency, which so far I do not. Changing the name of the default currency is easy, understanding what all the many many settigns controlling what the default currency can do is much harder but would be needed if one wanted to add a second currency with any real understanding of what exactly one is setting that second currency up to be capable of.

So basically it is great to grab out of the box change the default currency to your community currency and go with it, but it could also do so much more if you understood what exactly all its many many transaction types and categories and relationships and so on are actually about.

It also has an advertising system built in for its users to advertise things to each other.

The idea was that for example authors could advertise writing services.

It is at http://dvcstable02.dvcnode.org:8080

Which if fortunate (that it is on dvcstable02) since dvcstable01 bloew its motherboard a whiel back and is still waiting for a new one, and dvcstable06, possibly due to trying to take up the load by running some of what used to run on dvcstable01, can be pinged but not logged on to, not sure what is up with it. dvcstable02 still seems to be working for now though.

Cyclos home page with info all about it and so on is probably at http://cyclos.org I would guess.

I head a while back that its devs were thinking of going forward as closed source in future so the open source version might be about to be orphaned, in which case maybe it would be an excellent project for the Devcoin project to support, to try to make sure the free open source version stays up to date and maybe even gets improved. (Like maybe we could get blockchain-currency gateways made for it for example?)

-MarkM-

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January 26, 2014, 11:34:16 PM
 #4635

Saw it...

I think bounties should be in coins not shares since it is another indirection away from how much you will be paid. If we do a jobboard and we post in coins everyone knows how much they are getting if it is accepted by someone..

Also it makes sense for people posting services or work to be done via devcoins to have to transfer in those coins to the site so that it can be transfered as a trusted third party to the developer once product is delivered and accepted. The site offers all of this and it is a way for workers amd service providers to work together without worrying about people not getting paid or work not done properly etc.

Anyways when I put it up you can see better no point to talk about it yet....

Id probably work with you once I get it hosted.

Nice site Dalamar. clean and simple and easy for new visitors. I found the bounties link and I agree with Sidhujag about DVC vs shares for offering bounties, but understand why shares is the method. Hunterbunters data set shows a running DVC value of shares in the new rounds so maybe this could be useful? http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/

and I found this really useful too: http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/devtome

It will be great when we get all the good work people are doing into one easy to access place.


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January 26, 2014, 11:47:49 PM
 #4636

There is no need for a bidding war as bounties can start low and be raised if no one takes them.

The bidding war will be as the bounty sinks to the equivalent of $3/hour which is the wage many good Asian programmers are willing/able to work.

- Nova

The bottom line is, if no one else wants to do the work and once it drrops to $3 a good Asian programmer picks it up then it will get done, the developer will get paid what they are happy being paid. (One would hope they saw it before it dropped but if not....)

This is only a problem if bounties are some way influencing the overall value of DVC for everyone else isnt it?

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January 26, 2014, 11:51:25 PM
 #4637

I’d like to better understand what you’re saying. My main driver on Devcoin is basically the philosophy and actually trying to build something that can improve upon today. Not dreamy but pragmatic improvement.

We share the same driver/interest, although my thoughts may drift more towards the dreamy side. Normally my dreamy thoughts have little merit in the saturation of capitalist concepts, short of some revolutionary or market crash event; which in recent history did not seem out of the question.

This project opens the possibility of such thoughts in a constructive manner. There are no strict guidelines that need to be enforced like we would find on Main St.. It is for that reason that my suggestion is to think way outside the box of Main St.. Not to mimic it but to take things where it cannot.

As to what that will/could evolve into would be some consensus found among this community.

My thoughts have been (1) on having somewhere visible to list and monitor official bounties, making them easier to maintain and find;

This would be a good thing in my opinion. However how one is rewarded is the issue where we could break new ground. My feeling is that this should be tempered with the main concern being for the developer not the end client. This is open source we are talking about after all. It is meant for everyone.

(2) a separate general exchange in devcoins longer-term. The former wouldn't be 3rd party and the latter wouldn't involve receivers or necessarily be open source or for 'developers' only - it could be for any work (goods or services) in devcoins that supply/demand dictates.

Again a great idea on face value. To relate to this project then, in my way of thinking, some thought to fair and equitable payment should be a focus. Say I will clean your toilet for X dollars then someone else comes along that will clean it for Y dollars. We are into the old market system and the only winner is the one who owns the toilet and does not want to clean it themselves. Again, only imagine, that someone advertises that they will clean toilets and someone else advertises that they will also clean toilets. Perhaps then the users of the site could vote what they think toilet cleaning is worth and both would then have to do it for that price or give up toilet cleaning.

Again only an off the top of my head idea, yet hopefully an example of how we can approach this with not a race to the bottom but a race towards equity. 

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 27, 2014, 12:01:08 AM
Last edit: January 27, 2014, 12:13:19 AM by novacadian
 #4638

The bottom line is, if no one else wants to do the work and once it drrops to $3 a good Asian programmer picks it up then it will get done,

Again, sorry for the double post....

Why should an Asian programmer have to work for $3 per hour anyway? That is another concept that crypto currency could break. We are all on the same ball of dirt. Why should the Asian get any less than a western programmer or clothes manufacturer for that matter. They can in a competition to the bottom because rice and rent may be cheaper for them. Otherwise why not raise them up rather than take advantage of them being down trodden?

My request is only to think outside of the box.

- Nova

[Edit: typos]

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 27, 2014, 12:07:15 AM
 #4639

Cyclos is a community banking system, free open source. It has stuff that lets you sell things on your website similar to how PayPal does, it has apps for umpteen different kinds of phones, it lets the admins define all kinds of currencies and what types of things (actions, transactions etc) to enable for each currency and so on. It even has gateways or something about external accounts so you can administer portions of your funds etc that reside in "traditional" banking systems by the look of it, and links between Cyclos instances so different community currencies can talk to each other.

I missed the conversation, I do scroll back and read but if I miss a few days its a lot of catching up.  I also have my head full of other stuff so looking into yet another new thing will quite possibly overload - I have bookmarked it to look at when Im a bit more mentally available Cheesy

If the developers are thinking of commercialising the product (leaving the open source one an orphan?) is it worth contacting them and asking them if they recommend a developer who might be interested in making it work for devcoin purposes?

I will follow this up myself later but right now Im working on two discussion sheets leading to two projects, playing with PHP, building a (client) website for paintings and another for an animal rescue group and I have an exhibition Sunday week that I still have a number of half finished pieces to finish...(Who said working from home was going to be a quiet life!??) Its no help that I talk too much for someone with no time lol  Wink

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January 27, 2014, 12:31:32 AM
 #4640

The bottom line is, if no one else wants to do the work and once it drrops to $3...

Last thought before putting a gag on for a while. Smiley

It appears to me that if a project has been sitting around for a long time that the bounty should be raised to attract the talent it obviously required to have been sitting around for so long anyway. Lowering it is only catering to those requesting the bounty not those bringing it to reality.

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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