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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 955543 times)
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matthewh3
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January 28, 2014, 09:09:59 PM
 #4681

At first it would act as a pass-through for 5,000 NEOBEE shares, ~BTC1.00 of Kenilworth shares and ~BTC1.00 SFI shares.  With 50% of the dividends the fund receives reinvested into more shares and new securities possibly as well.  Then 30% paid out in dividends and 20% used for a management fee.  The investment fund would be listed on Cryptostocks.

I've run a successful investment fund LTCI on LTC Global before its closure.  Plus, I founded - www.redstarmining.com - which is now in its third year of operation.

I see six shares are reserved for up to four investment business plans.  How much is a share worth?
So that's basically a bet on NEOBEE outperforming dvc/btc, because fund price would move inversely to dvc price.

Shares are a share of dvc generation in each round, so the dvc value isn't fixed until round end which in this case is about 9th Feb (currently ~200k dvc per share): http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/


Yeah, it's an investment veichle as DVC is inflationary in nature IIRC.  So putting DVC in crypto-coin based stocks would appeal to some DVC investors who want to stay within the DVC markets.

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January 28, 2014, 09:34:46 PM
 #4682

Yeah, it's an investment veichle as DVC is inflationary in nature IIRC.  So putting DVC in crypto-coin based stocks would appeal to some DVC investors who want to stay within the DVC markets.
Ok. I wasn't necessarily being negative on a fund level, there was another dvc pass-through with similar inverse dynamics that did well as dvc fell, and would be same for any non-dvc origin investment. 20% management is high, esp if capital returns don't work out. Yes dvc has constant generation to achieve constant funding.
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January 28, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
Last edit: January 28, 2014, 10:29:13 PM by Hunterbunter
 #4683

There is no need for a bidding war as bounties can start low and be raised if no one takes them.

The bidding war will be as the bounty sinks to the equivalent of $3/hour which is the wage many good Asian programmers are willing/able to work.

- Nova

From an open source perspective, isn't that still a good thing? Ultimately most open source being released now is done for free. By floating the value of open source on the free market, what's being said is that open source software is worth more than nothing, but how much more is completely up to the overall market, which is a global one. It would be nice for devs to be paid better wages, but I don't think devcoins are really best suited for that...dvc is more geared towards getting open source software for the cheapest possible nonzero price.

Companies having an avenue to find cheap developers for bounties isn't really a big consideration for the sdevcoin project, because there are tons of ways to get them to do that already. While the devs might want dvc payment, there's nothing stopping them accepting any other currency and converting themselves. The real innovation here is the increase of reward to open source developers, who were previously working for nothing.

Programming for $3 per hour and DevTome entries at $20-$50 hour. Is something wrong with this picture?

Programmers are already racing to the bottom by bidding against each other for proprietary development work. If the best that can be done is to mimic that equity (or non-equity as the case may be) then what is the point of this project?

Open Source programmers working for free are working on projects that they choose to do not projects that some marketeer has asked them to do. It appears to me that what you are suggesting is like having a carpenter that chooses to work for free on Habitat for Humanity Homes and then someone expecting them to build a house for them at $3 per hour because they built that other one for nothing.

If we do not think outside of the box for this project it will be here`s the new boss the same as the old boss.

Re devtome wages, all wages are $3 per hour, but because the project seems to want to prioritize devtome article submissions they're getting a bonus atm. I presume that will change at some point...but no one has said when, yet.

The point of this project is to increase the reward to open source developers, not increase the pay of programmers.

There are already other avenues for marketeers to get programmers to make open or propriety stuff for a dollar. If you try to make it fair and equitable for the programmer, how many businesses would actually use it? Maybe a handful.

Re carpenter, economically, that's exactly how the real world works, except not because that's what he did for nothing, but because that's what he's willing to do it for, or not. I'm all for fair pay personally, but how you do it and still attract the majority of business? It will always be a niche. I'm not discouraging you or anyone else setting up a system where devs can be paid fairly, but I'm just saying to proliferate open source development (the goal of the devcoin project), you still have to do it at the cheapest price, which is why bounties start low and go up over time until someone bites.
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January 28, 2014, 10:20:43 PM
 #4684

Just a reminder to all my devcoin fans.. DO NOT...I repeat....DO NOT sell your DVC if you want the price to go up.

JUST HODL like me! 
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January 28, 2014, 10:21:45 PM
 #4685

Yeah, it's an investment veichle as DVC is inflationary in nature IIRC.  So putting DVC in crypto-coin based stocks would appeal to some DVC investors who want to stay within the DVC markets.
Ok. I wasn't necessarily being negative on a fund level, there was another dvc pass-through with similar inverse dynamics that did well as dvc fell, and would be same for any non-dvc origin investment. 20% management is high, esp if capital returns don't work out. Yes dvc has constant generation to achieve constant funding.

Yeah, we could change it to 60% dividends received reinvestment and with a 27.5% dividend payment.  With 12.5% of dividends and 15% of capital gains through profitable investing salary fee.  

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January 28, 2014, 10:45:06 PM
 #4686

Yeah, we could change it to 60% dividends received reinvestment and with a 27.5% dividend payment.  With 12.5% of dividends and 15% of capital gains through profitable investing salary fee.  
Yes you could, and really take the piss. It's not exactly rocket science for someone to just sell dvc/btc and buy the shares themselves. Unless you issued at a serious discount there'd be zero reason to invest in your fund because upside is (compounded?) part-capped and downside not.
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January 28, 2014, 10:52:57 PM
 #4687

Open Source programmers working for free are working on projects that they choose to do not projects that some marketeer has asked them to do. It appears to me that what you are suggesting is like having a carpenter that chooses to work for free on Habitat for Humanity Homes and then someone expecting them to build a house for them at $3 per hour because they built that other one for nothing.

If we do not think outside of the box for this project it will be here`s the new boss the same as the old boss.

- Nova

Sorry I thought the point was to bring people, who want to fund open source projects, together with people, who understand how to make use of all the open source stuff already out there to make them happen.

There is a big difference between the skill set and the mindset of a person who develops proprietary software for a company and someone who develops Open Source software. The latter is generally more enabled than the former as you would expect Smiley

A business will still want a proprietary solution no matter how cheap the Open Source developers are. Its the intellectual property rights plus the potential for growth that gets the investment. I am trying to find a way around this issue at the moment but unless you are already well established or the software is only a facilitator like a word processor, IPRs are a big deal to conventional investors (an asset that can be sold if all goes bad).

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January 28, 2014, 11:06:07 PM
 #4688

At first it would act as a pass-through for 5,000 NEOBEE shares, ~BTC1.00 of Kenilworth shares and ~BTC1.00 SFI shares.  With 50% of the dividends the fund receives reinvested into more shares and new securities possibly as well.  Then 30% paid out in dividends and 20% used for a management fee.  The investment fund would be listed on Cryptostocks.

I've run a successful investment fund LTCI on LTC Global before its closure.  Plus, I founded - www.redstarmining.com - which is now in its third year of operation.

I see six shares are reserved for up to four investment business plans.  How much is a share worth?
So that's basically a bet on NEOBEE outperforming dvc/btc, because fund price would move inversely to dvc price.

Shares are a share of dvc generation in each round, so the dvc value isn't fixed until round end which in this case is about 9th Feb (currently ~200k dvc per share): http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/


Yeah, it's an investment veichle as DVC is inflationary in nature IIRC.  So putting DVC in crypto-coin based stocks would appeal to some DVC investors who want to stay within the DVC markets.

Its really not... it has inflation adjustments in a deflationary environment... assuming no growth it becomes inflationary. With constant user base growth it becomes deflationary. As time goes by it becomes more deflationary. Constant supply doesn't mean its inflationary by nature.
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January 28, 2014, 11:15:43 PM
 #4689

Yeah, we could change it to 60% dividends received reinvestment and with a 27.5% dividend payment.  With 12.5% of dividends and 15% of capital gains through profitable investing salary fee.  
Yes you could, and really take the piss. It's not exactly rocket science for someone to just sell dvc/btc and buy the shares themselves. Unless you issued at a serious discount there'd be zero reason to invest in your fund because upside is (compounded?) part-capped and downside not.

Researching stock markets to choose the right stocks is not easy never mind crypto-coin valued stocks.  My similar LTC investment fund was very popular and did very well.  If the fund is not for you then no one is forcing you to buy.  The contract will be very clear and concise.   I'm planning on offering this fund for the benefit of the Devcoin community.  All the shares to be an initially offered are already owned outright by me and I could make any moves privately with them I so choose.  The fees are only being made to make this endeavor worth anyones time involved in the slightest.  No one is going to earn enough from those fees to quit their day job anytime soon.

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January 28, 2014, 11:16:27 PM
 #4690

After the giveaway ban theymos announced, you can host your giveaways in my forum

http://thisweekscoin.com/forum/index.php?board=19.0

Have fun guys

Hey, smexy. Don't waste your time. Time's precious.
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January 29, 2014, 12:11:15 AM
 #4691

I'm all for fair pay personally, but how you do it and still attract the majority of business?

Perhaps it is my misunderstanding then.

My understanding was that we were here to support Open Source and it's programmers; their work our product. Open Source is for the whole world not for one person/entity who can see a use for a certain application.

How that can be handled in a practical way is the debate that seems lacking.

This is my first foray into a Global Currency, as crypto may be for humankind. That seems reason enough to take a breath and think things through. Do we want reward in this new age to be more of the same which we have seen in the Industrial Age? Do we want the free flow of information, which is a hallmark of the Info Age according to such far thinkers as Alvin Toffler, to be manipulated by the few? Or do we want to get it right so that others could take what is done here as a template for the future?

The shaping of this new age could come from projects like this one, if we can think outside the box of our conditioning, to derive a means by which information can be freely shared while providing a fair and equitable system of reward.

The monthly dumping makes it obvious that the vast majority are not here for reasons of political philosophy. It is not surprising then that there is a desire to get our ducks in a row... to put up our shingle... drive business to our door... drive up DVC so that more can be dumped at even greater prices.

My DVCs has never left my wallet, other than sending it to other DVC wallets. That is not meaning only recent bounty payments but going back to my first introduction to crypto.  My drive here is not to get rich quick but to be part of something that gets things right. If that is a mistaken belief on my part then you will have my heartfelt best wishes yet not my contribution as a programmer.

If we are to have that needed debate then one thing that should be a given is that the system should not be designed to pit programmer against programmer in a race to the bottom. If we can start at that point then let's open a thread on the new forum to think tank how things may be handled to achieve our mutual goals.

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 29, 2014, 12:33:48 AM
 #4692

After the giveaway ban theymos announced, you can host your giveaways in my forum

http://thisweekscoin.com/forum/index.php?board=19.0

Have fun guys

The altcoin giveaway forum has picked up some of the slack also ..Smiley


http://altcoingiveaways.com/index.php


When is this Devcoin party gonna move its way over to the Devcoin forum? Some of this content could eventually be earning Devcoin some money, instead of going to this massive forum.

http://coinzen.org/index.php

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January 29, 2014, 12:42:58 AM
 #4693

Researching stock markets to choose the right stocks is not easy never mind crypto-coin valued stocks.  My similar LTC investment fund was very popular and did very well.  If the fund is not for you then no one is forcing you to buy.  The contract will be very clear and concise.   I'm planning on offering this fund for the benefit of the Devcoin community.  All the shares to be an initially offered are already owned outright by me and I could make any moves privately with them I so choose.  The fees are only being made to make this endeavor worth anyones time involved in the slightest.  No one is going to earn enough from those fees to quit their day job anytime soon.
I know what it takes, and no it probably won't be for me b/c I generally prefer to manage my own investments. But I'm not knocking your record, effort or offering, I'm criticising the fee structure and the resulting payoff profile after asking some questions. That doesn't mean anyone else shares my view and good luck to you.
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January 29, 2014, 12:44:06 AM
 #4694


When is this Devcoin party gonna move its way over to the Devcoin forum? Some of this content could eventually be earning Devcoin some money, instead of going to this massive forum.

http://coinzen.org/index.php
Currently I cannot use it. There seems to be a googleapi for jquery running and timing out on it. All I get is time out messages.
Ah just stopped I can get back on. Smiley

ThinkI

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BTC: 1AxYGFDnnw1PUo8TbQ83PCrenjQJBYU41Z | DVC: 1HKK5tswf8mXGsQng5naNEeqY44ZTHD3MY
Is this the best way to mine BitCoin?
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January 29, 2014, 01:36:00 AM
 #4695

This is my first foray into a Global Currency, as crypto may be for humankind. That seems reason enough to take a breath and think things through. Do we want reward in this new age to be more of the same which we have seen in the Industrial Age? Do we want the free flow of information, which is a hallmark of the Info Age according to such far thinkers as Alvin Toffler, to be manipulated by the few? Or do we want to get it right so that others could take what is done here as a template for the future?

That's very idealistic, and I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of your initiative. Beware, though, that right and wrong are matters of opinion.

The shaping of this new age could come from projects like this one, if we can think outside the box of our conditioning, to derive a means by which information can be freely shared while providing a fair and equitable system of reward.

The monthly dumping makes it obvious that the vast majority are not here for reasons of political philosophy. It is not surprising then that there is a desire to get our ducks in a row... to put up our shingle... drive business to our door... drive up DVC so that more can be dumped at even greater prices.

My DVCs has never left my wallet, other than sending it to other DVC wallets. That is not meaning only recent bounty payments but going back to my first introduction to crypto.  My drive here is not to get rich quick but to be part of something that gets things right. If that is a mistaken belief on my part then you will have my heartfelt best wishes yet not my contribution as a programmer.

If we are to have that needed debate then one thing that should be a given is that the system should not be designed to pit programmer against programmer in a race to the bottom. If we can start at that point then let's open a thread on the new forum to think tank how things may be handled to achieve our mutual goals.

I don't think anyone is going to get rich quick with devcoins, personally. It may happen with good speculative market timing, but overall it's the least attractive to wealth storage compared to all the other coins. The coin is actually relatively old and its price is indicative of how much the crypto-speculators value it. This can be a good thing, because it means the coin will be relatively stable in price. It may not seem that way, but compared to all the other coins that basically started at zero and are now worth up to $1000USD each, their range of trade is much, much higher than devcoins, so devcoins can be considered the most stable of the lot. Holding coins does support open source a little bit (because they can sell it at the price you didn't), but putting regular money into devcoins is something else, and that's what it needs to be more stable, and pay fair wages.

Just like the other cryptocoins, the price is determined by how much people are putting in, and how much they are taking out as a whole. The difference with devcoins, is that we know people are going to be taking it out. What's the point of saying to open source programmers (who are already doing open source work) - "Here's a reward for all your open source work, good job! But don't spend it"?
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January 29, 2014, 02:04:00 AM
 #4696

I was wondering if I can claim one of the remaining Investment Plan Bounties for this plan I put together. (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_engine) My intention was to write up a business plan that can be invested in by using devcoins that would benefit the whole devcoin community. Just wondering if my interpretation of business plan fits the description required by this bounty...

I wrote it last week, but just finally found some time to figure out how to properly post it on devtome. For a future article I might write up a noob's guide to Devtome in very simple English.

Hey jdlrexy,

How can one make money by investing?  I'd suggest you add a section where "shareholders" of the Devcoin bounty fund could have weighted votes based on the stake, and the shareholders would get a portion of a bounty the contributed too, etc.

That's all you need to do to get the six shares!

  BITMIXER.IO   High Volume Bitcoin MIXER  
BTC: 1JH2jybjWruvDD23wSe5PCY9Epmr45u6nQ - DVC: 1SMEAGqpm9JSpJ6JZaM5dEBptPTNahpFa - Earn Devcoins by Writing | Devcoin Official Site  | SAT
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January 29, 2014, 02:40:28 AM
 #4697

I was wondering if I can claim one of the remaining Investment Plan Bounties for this plan I put together. (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_engine) My intention was to write up a business plan that can be invested in by using devcoins that would benefit the whole devcoin community. Just wondering if my interpretation of business plan fits the description required by this bounty...

I wrote it last week, but just finally found some time to figure out how to properly post it on devtome. For a future article I might write up a noob's guide to Devtome in very simple English.

Hey jdlrexy,

How can one make money by investing?  I'd suggest you add a section where "shareholders" of the Devcoin bounty fund could have weighted votes based on the stake, and the shareholders would get a portion of a bounty the contributed too, etc.

That's all you need to do to get the six shares!

Did you ever get the issue with your 10 million Devcoins being in limbo resolved? I was hoping that someone was going to be able to help you out.

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unclejed613
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January 29, 2014, 02:55:47 AM
 #4698

i've got somewhat of a technical question about devtome. i will be writing some articles that will include wirelists that can be imported into CAD programs, like Geda and Kicad. just wondering what the word count rules for those would be, since they are not lines i actually type out, but are generated by the cad software..... for instance:
Code:
* D:\SwCADIII\circlotron.asc
XU1 N001 siga N003 6bf7
XU2 v1+ N002 v2- 6bf7
XU3 N007 sigb N004 6bf7
XU4 v2+ N005 v1- 6bf7
XU5 v2- 0 v1- 0 NC_01 N006 pushpull Raa=3500
C1 N002 N001 .1µ
C2 N005 N007 .1µ
V1 v1+ v1- 100
V2 v2+ v2- 100
V3 vc 0 -5
V4 siga 0 SINE(-4 3 1k)
V5 sigb 0 SINE(-4 3 1k 0 0 180)
R1 vc N002 1meg
R2 N005 vc 1meg
R3 v2+ N001 100k
R4 N007 v1+ 100k
R5 N006 0 8
R6 N003 0 500
R7 0 N004 500
.lib tube2.lib
.include transformer.cir
.tran 10m
.backanno
.end

of course, the schematics that are represented by the wirelists are drawn by me, but i don't want to tick somebody off because it might look like i'm "playing the system".... i'm just making sure somebody else can duplicate the wirelists as open source code for whatever cad software they use
unclejed613
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January 29, 2014, 03:08:24 AM
 #4699

the introduction article is here: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=an_open_source_hi-fi_amplifier

it's a open source hardware project.... with the intent somebody with sufficient technical expertise, and financial backing could put it into production.

or a hobbyist could build it in their garage and enjoy their favorite music....
melodiem
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January 29, 2014, 05:03:19 AM
 #4700

I'm all for fair pay personally, but how you do it and still attract the majority of business?

Perhaps it is my misunderstanding then.
My understanding was that we were here to support Open Source and it's programmers; their work our product. Open Source is for the whole world not for one person/entity who can see a use for a certain application.
- Nova

My understanding of Open Source is that whatever it is (IT product, toy, artwork, literature etc) is almost always produced to meet a specific purpose or illustrate a concept/theory/fantasy. It is what happens at that point that determines if it is Proprietary or Open Source.

With Open Source works, the steps to the solution, (in IT this is the code) and the conceptual development are available for anyone else to use/adapt/change and put to any purpose they wish. (Including producing proprietary products for sale. Staying with IT; proprietary developers don't have to allow others to use their modification code when building new products based on Open Source code)

As a writer that means the work I declare Open Source and publish on Devtome can even be used on someone else's commercially purchased birthday card as long as they credit my work. *Digression warning.. That is a cool idea really..that would be like a little random happy birthday from me to a complete stranger Wink I should write some birthday poems.

* back on track:
So anyone willing to do Open Source work is willing to GIVE that to the community because they did it and they are proud of it and it worked for them or sometimes even because it didn't work for them and they don't see any value in it until someone else picks it up and plugs it into another idea.

Either way, the code is out there for someone else to use.

An odd example is a cookbook. (Thank you to a random IRC chat for this illustration, it isnt my own, if you recognise it claim it, I dont remember your name!)

If I buy a book of recipes from the country women's association, each one of those recipes is given to the community to use. The country women's association collected them and put them into a cookbook and charged me $5 for it but they don't own the recipes (Code) even though they have full copyright over their work (the book)

Further to that illustration, I could base a restaurant on those recipes and the original Open Source developer who donated the original code/recipe gets to come and pay me for their own Open Source work along with the rest of the country women's association.

Their $5 profit on that original code is laughable in light of my modifications and I don't even have to tell anyone my recipes. I think Devcoin has a good chance of ensuring the country women's association and the original developers get just a little more recognition of their work.



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