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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 955572 times)
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sidhujag
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January 31, 2014, 06:01:52 PM
 #4801

I appreciate the response.

But now that I reinstalled the client, I'm stuck at 11999 blocks with 7 connections.

This bites.

I asked you which client you were using? This is important because:

"At around block 12,000 the first fractional share went out successfully, so there are no longer any known potential technical devcoin problems.  Now we can start projects.

Devcoin was originally intended to primarily be an ethical donation currency and secondly an umbrella for profitable open source projects.  There has not been enough interest in the donation part, so from now on devcoin will primarily be an umbrella for profitable open source projects, and secondly donate a portion to developers.  It will be more like a public benefit corporation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-benefit_corporation

To that end, the first profitable devcoin open source project will be an open source wiki where the contributors get a share of the advertsing revenue, converted to devcoins, plus devcoin generation shares.  At the beginning the advertising revenue will be tiny, however, that is better than nothing and it will grow.  There are three potential ways of getting advertising revenue:"

There was a change at that block so the client version matters.. I used my new client many times to download the entire blockchain from scratch so Im not sure why yours wont accept the changes at that block... maybr your not on newest version?

On the second part of Unthinkbit's quote from 2011 above.. you can see the original intent was to fund profitable open source businesses like the ones i proposed and others propose but then we ended
up with a wildly unprofitable business in devtome? Which is more donation looks like. Wasnt the idea that only ad revenue will be used plus a small share to help pay them? Wouldnt it grow over time so slowly more writers would come? Why the sudden change to skew the share earnings?

Now it seems ad revenue isnt even a factor and shares are front and center payment method but the paragraph doesnt read that it would be primarily shares to me.. and then why bother with thousands of shares to breakeven? What was the analysis done here on how profitable or lack thereof here?
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eeh
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January 31, 2014, 06:04:59 PM
 #4802

I asked you which client you were using? This is important because:

"At around block 12,000 the first fractional share went out successfully, so there are no longer any known potential technical devcoin problems.  Now we can start projects.

Devcoin was originally intended to primarily be an ethical donation currency and secondly an umbrella for profitable open source projects.  There has not been enough interest in the donation part, so from now on devcoin will primarily be an umbrella for profitable open source projects, and secondly donate a portion to developers.  It will be more like a public benefit corporation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-benefit_corporation

To that end, the first profitable devcoin open source project will be an open source wiki where the contributors get a share of the advertsing revenue, converted to devcoins, plus devcoin generation shares.  At the beginning the advertising revenue will be tiny, however, that is better than nothing and it will grow.  There are three potential ways of getting advertising revenue:"

There was a change at that block so the client version matters.. I used my new client many times to download the entire blockchain from scratch so Im not sure why yours wont accept the changes at that block... maybr your not on newest version?

On the second part of Unthinkbit's quote from 2011 above.. you can see the original intent was to fund profitable open source businesses like the ones i proposed and others propose but then we ended
up with a wildly unprofitable business in devtome? Which is more donation looks like. Wasnt the idea that only ad revenue will be used to pay them? Wouldnt it grow over time so slowly more writers would come? Why the sudden change to skew the share earnings?

I have no idea if you're responding to me. I've been using my client since at April 2013. I'm using MS 8.1. I understand the intent and premise of Devcoin and Devtome. I just want my client to download the chain and my earnings.
sidhujag
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January 31, 2014, 06:10:01 PM
Last edit: January 31, 2014, 06:52:12 PM by sidhujag
 #4803

Sorry i was respinding to you and also bringing up the second part of the paragraph talking about being involved in profitable open source businesses.. seems like to me at the time it was the best idea and we just went with it but there was never any review done to see if we should cotinue
with the way its going..

It would be interesting to see ad revenue numbers alongside with number of words written since they should be correlated.. the idea is that ad revenue should pay the writers amd slowly the number of shares needed would be reduced.

I dont remember anyone reporting the revenue... is this intentional? Where is revenue going? Is someone just keeping it?

On ur download issue you can try to delete your data directory minus wallet.dat and conf file and try my new client: http://sourceforge.net/projects/devcoin/files/temp-testing/
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January 31, 2014, 07:02:18 PM
 #4804

Sorry i was respinding to you and also bringing up the second part of the paragraph talking about being involved in profitable open source businesses.. seems like to me at the time it was the best idea and we just went with it but there was never any review done to see if we should cotinue
with the way its going..

It would be interesting to see ad revenue numbers alongside with number of words written since they should be correlated.. the idea is that ad revenue should pay the writers amd slowly the number of shares needed would be reduced.

I dont remember anyone reporting the revenue... is this intentional? Where is revenue going? Is someone just keeping it?

On ur download issue you can try to delete your data directory minus wallet.dat and conf file and try my new client: http://sourceforge.net/projects/devcoin/files/temp-testing/

Sync going on now. My OS seems to like it so far. Thanks.
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January 31, 2014, 07:55:35 PM
 #4805

so to post pics on devtome I have to have them hosted somewhere else correct? Devtome doesn't have storage space where I can upload pics?
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January 31, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
 #4806

Alex wrote:

..
I have been following you guys on Twitter and its awesome.

We are hosting The Crypto Currency Convention in NYC on April 9th. We would like to speak to speak and promote Devcoin.

Our mission is to bring awareness and acceptance to all Crypto Currency and not just bitcoin.

Education and exposure is the only way we all win.

We are expert marketers and expect 1500-2000 attendees.

This is going to be a huge success and we are so excited to be a part of this with you!!!
..

I am not going to the convention. If anyone wants to speak for devcoin, please message me.

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January 31, 2014, 08:50:16 PM
 #4807

so to post pics on devtome I have to have them hosted somewhere else correct? Devtome doesn't have storage space where I can upload pics?
media manager - panel on left. http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devtome_how_to_post_an_image
sidhujag
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January 31, 2014, 08:58:02 PM
 #4808

Alex wrote:

..
I have been following you guys on Twitter and its awesome.

We are hosting The Crypto Currency Convention in NYC on April 9th. We would like to speak to speak and promote Devcoin.

Our mission is to bring awareness and acceptance to all Crypto Currency and not just bitcoin.

Education and exposure is the only way we all win.

We are expert marketers and expect 1500-2000 attendees.

This is going to be a huge success and we are so excited to be a part of this with you!!!
..

I am not going to the convention. If anyone wants to speak for devcoin, please message me.


That would be cool to do, however I'm all the way on the Wet coast Sad I probably won't be able to get there for April as I have work full-time. Maybe someone close by that area?
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January 31, 2014, 09:09:47 PM
 #4809

Alex wrote:

..
I have been following you guys on Twitter and its awesome.

We are hosting The Crypto Currency Convention in NYC on April 9th. We would like to speak to speak and promote Devcoin.

Our mission is to bring awareness and acceptance to all Crypto Currency and not just bitcoin.

Education and exposure is the only way we all win.

We are expert marketers and expect 1500-2000 attendees.

This is going to be a huge success and we are so excited to be a part of this with you!!!
..

I am not going to the convention. If anyone wants to speak for devcoin, please message me.


That would be cool to do, however I'm all the way on the Wet coast Sad I probably won't be able to get there for April as I have work full-time. Maybe someone close by that area?

I would have some interest in this but I don't think I would be the best representative by my onesies. If I had enough time I could make it so I'm at least on the East Coast around that time so I could make it.
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January 31, 2014, 10:55:09 PM
 #4810

Eeh I didnt realise mine had stopped as well until I read your post. Thankyou for the heads up.

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January 31, 2014, 10:58:17 PM
 #4811

Eeh I didnt realise mine had stopped as well until I read your post. Thankyou for the heads up.

I dont understand you need to give more information.

His stopped at block 12k were you doing a full download? What client were you using? How did you resolve it?
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January 31, 2014, 11:26:07 PM
 #4812

'One sided trade flow'. I think too much talk and incentive structure is about earning/getting dvc. That results in a focus on how/why/where to sell. This undermines the entire point of devcoin, which is to fund open source work, and therefore needs as much if not more focus on support, buying and adding value.

I don't disagree with you, but my impression of the whole devtome thing was to get more people involved, as a basis to better support open source development with the rest of devcoin. I thought the problem was that progress was just too slow / ineffective, and other things (like attracting commissioned work) was the next approach.

I don't know what the metrics of devtome were, but say if only one out of every 1000 people are actually interested in having a long term relationship with the devcoin project, as a supporter/investor, what's the best way to find them?

Sidhujag mentioned in his post that the devcoin project started becoming an umbrella for profitable open source developments. I actually think that's a far better idea than to rely on donations entirely. It reminds me of China Pre and Post capitalist restoration.
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January 31, 2014, 11:26:22 PM
 #4813

I dont understand you need to give more information.
His stopped at block 12k were you doing a full download? What client were you using? How did you resolve it?

Mine was at block 1233.. I dont remember the last two numbers, I didnt realise it could be important but I will take more note in future.

The client is the win32.exe from here:http://dls.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/dls/devcoin/devcoin-win32-setup.exe, Version 0.3.25.1
 
I dont understand what you mean by "full download" ? (sorry if that's a dumb question, I am very new at this)

Solution: re-installed the client.


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January 31, 2014, 11:53:26 PM
 #4814

I dont understand you need to give more information.
His stopped at block 12k were you doing a full download? What client were you using? How did you resolve it?

Mine was at block 1233.. I dont remember the last two numbers, I didnt realise it could be important but I will take more note in future.

The client is the win32.exe from here:http://dls.21stcenturymoneytalk.org/dls/devcoin/devcoin-win32-setup.exe, Version 0.3.25.1
 
I dont understand what you mean by "full download" ? (sorry if that's a dumb question, I am very new at this)

Solution: re-installed the client.



Reinstalled the same client? You did not delete the data directory or anything? That's odd, its the same thing.
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February 01, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
 #4815

Tested Android client 1.0.5 with Windows wallet 1.0.15.

Windows -> Android : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 1.0001 DVC payment (1 DVC payment fee)
Android -> Windows : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 5.0001 DVC payment (5 DVC payment fee)

From Windows wallet to Android Wallet: received.
From Android Wallet to Windows wallet: still waiting (2 hours already). The client says that the payment has not been transmitted yet. Blocks are up to date so the payment process seems to be hanging somewhere within the client.

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DeepOnion
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sidhujag
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February 01, 2014, 12:00:56 AM
 #4816

'One sided trade flow'. I think too much talk and incentive structure is about earning/getting dvc. That results in a focus on how/why/where to sell. This undermines the entire point of devcoin, which is to fund open source work, and therefore needs as much if not more focus on support, buying and adding value.

I don't disagree with you, but my impression of the whole devtome thing was to get more people involved, as a basis to better support open source development with the rest of devcoin. I thought the problem was that progress was just too slow / ineffective, and other things (like attracting commissioned work) was the next approach.

I don't know what the metrics of devtome were, but say if only one out of every 1000 people are actually interested in having a long term relationship with the devcoin project, as a supporter/investor, what's the best way to find them?

Sidhujag mentioned in his post that the devcoin project started becoming an umbrella for profitable open source developments. I actually think that's a far better idea than to rely on donations entirely. It reminds me of China Pre and Post capitalist restoration.

Yea I think that was the original intent:

intent a) Donations to open source developers.. people can get paid for work that they wouldn't have otherwise, creates incentive to become an open source developer and thus un-commercialize the software sector
intent b) Support profitable developments that come out of this. So if you have some source code that is yours or you can distribute and others can copy at will, as long as it is still open source then if you create a business out of this, Devcoin will support you. I think what I'd like to see is profitable businesses that Devcoin supports, however that help devcoin in some way such as accepting devcoin or if it is a Devcoin funded project then provide all profits directly to Devcoin... as more projects come along and compete for scarce devcoins for funding, they start to become more valuable and higher profits as a result if they already aren't profitable from the getgo.

Devtome was supposed to start getting small amounts of shares to attract some quality writers that would ge tnothing otherwise, providing an avenue to do what they love, aswell as providing quality reading material, and at the same time drive ad revenue up which I think was supposed to be the source of income for writers. So as revenue rises, more writers come in, more attention to devcoin itself. At some point if there was so much revenue that we put a cap on writing profit then we would use the rest to buy devcoins at market or something like that. However what we ended up morphing into was solely a share based system where the investors buying devcoins are the only  ones to basically support or provide income to writers... and there is no notion that I see of ad revenue, or it being a factor at all. If there is no incentive for it to go up, then it won't. If we see some numbers like word count is 2x from last 3 months and ad revenue is 1.5x for last 3 months and we track these metrics then we can get a timeline and extrapolate how much money we need to support a profitable writing site, and then decide we keep with it or should we use that thousand or two thousand shares to maybe fund a different model.
sidhujag
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February 01, 2014, 12:01:29 AM
 #4817

Tested Android client 1.0.5 with Windows wallet 1.0.15.

Windows -> Android : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 1.0001 DVC payment (1 DVC payment fee)
Android -> Windows : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 5.0001 DVC payment (5 DVC payment fee)

All received and OK.

ok good thats what I saw...
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February 01, 2014, 12:02:55 AM
 #4818

Tested Android client 1.0.5 with Windows wallet 1.0.15.

Windows -> Android : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 1.0001 DVC payment (1 DVC payment fee)
Android -> Windows : 0.0001 DVC ends up in 5.0001 DVC payment (5 DVC payment fee)

All received and OK.

ok good thats what I saw...

I spoke to soon (see my editted post above).

I just did a 10 DVC payment from Android and that one immediately comes through on the Windows wallet  Huh


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DeepOnion
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February 01, 2014, 12:41:07 AM
 #4819

I don't disagree with you, but my impression of the whole devtome thing was to get more people involved, as a basis to better support open source development with the rest of devcoin. I thought the problem was that progress was just too slow / ineffective, and other things (like attracting commissioned work) was the next approach.

I don't know what the metrics of devtome were, but say if only one out of every 1000 people are actually interested in having a long term relationship with the devcoin project, as a supporter/investor, what's the best way to find them?

Sidhujag mentioned in his post that the devcoin project started becoming an umbrella for profitable open source developments. I actually think that's a far better idea than to rely on donations entirely. It reminds me of China Pre and Post capitalist restoration.
Slow progress - perhaps. People don't need to have a long-term relationship with devcoin, but then getting paid needs justifying through value to others or it's just random charity.

Not going to happen, but I think the best way to find them would be to stop paying. Focus resources on actually funding valued open source work and people who value their work first for the sake of that work not financial reward - either direct payments where value is demonstrable, or revenue driven where debatable and let participants build or not build up what they think has value. Which may still include devtome and many devtome writers but not with current incentive structure.

That's not a popular opinion, and likely construed as 'writer-bashing'. It isn't, it's unsustainable economics bashing. People here seem to miss the point that devcoin prices on value. It swings to low prices and never really recovers as a function of pay, and then a function of the lowest common denominator. If the real world pays $X for 1,000 words then any equivalent dvc payment > X will be sold and the price will revert over time. All else being equal, at some point each/most rounds market mechanics work to drop the price to a level commensurate with or closer to what 1,000 words may be worth. And then lower because a lot of devtome writers aren't professional writers or, to put it politely, writers.

All else isn't equal though, so price variance is higher. But the point remains. I see the incentive structure (not devtome, or writers, or dumps) as the problem. If devtome's subsidy is perpetual without justification, then that's cool - creative commons writing is considered valuable for the mere sake of writing - but it's at the cost of everything else this project could be and that doesn't work for me.
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February 01, 2014, 01:02:07 AM
 #4820


Reinstalled the same client? You did not delete the data directory or anything? That's odd, its the same thing.

 Undecided Now you worry me lol

I dont know if I have done this right, but it does seem to be working ok? Up to block 124199 now



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