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Author Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 #  (Read 418304 times)
soy
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November 09, 2013, 11:31:59 PM
 #2621

Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.
I don't know that any nation has a rule like that... the closest I'm aware of would be FINCEN's guidance that created virtual currency has such regulatory properties - but miners just discover coins predetermined by the protocol, they don't create them. In any case, I doubt any legal institution cares about technicalities.

Thanks.  It was the FINCEN guidance I was referring to but then I take it that never became legally binding for US citizens?
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November 09, 2013, 11:33:42 PM
 #2622


The payout went smoothly with the new block.  I notice it seems less 'spendable', having 26 confirmations already but needing 94 more blocks, than BTC earned elsewhere.  Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.  Bitcoins mined on another pool have not that demarcation.

But the question I wish to ask, is the minimum payout stat changeable on the configuration page?  I have Bitcoin-QT on another machine than the one having the cookie storing the receive address.  I generated the signed message which included in the encrypted string a lowering of the minimum payout trigger to 0.1000btc but it didn't take.  After the initial payout since the signed message configuration change I expected the payout to be lowered but it was not.  Is the minimum not changeable below what is dictated by the value equation used by Eligius staff?

A standard bitcoin transaction is spendable after only one confirmation, and fully confirmed after 6 confirmations.  When a new block is mined, the coinbase transaction that gives the 25 BTC + transaction fees requires 120 confirmations before it is spendable.

Most pools send the output of the coinbase transaction to a pool-owned address, then pay you in a separate normal transaction.  It will appear in your wallet as 'unconfirmed' until one more block is mined (the confirmation).  Eligius (and also P2pool) pay miners directly from the coinbase transaction.  That's why the transaction shows up a a 'mined' transaction which shows up as 'immature', and takes 120 confirmations to mature.

You can set you minimum payout to anything >= 0.01 BTC.  If it didn't work, it probably means that the signature failed.  It should tell you whether if it passed or failed a few lines up toward the top of the page.


Thank you for explaining the difference.

Then if I take the hash generated by the signature, paste it in and decode it I should see the message?  And if so then it's something else I'm not doing correctly.  For instance, I put a minimum diff of 121 for the Mercury on the address.  Then later that day I added two more miners who's diff might more correctly be 7 and 2 but didn't change the requested min diff of 121.  Would that prevent all config changes from being accepted?

The diff setting does not actually work, but the payout amount setting does.  A lot of people seem to have trouble getting the signed message to be accepted...  I don't know what causes that problem.

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November 09, 2013, 11:44:24 PM
 #2623


The payout went smoothly with the new block.  I notice it seems less 'spendable', having 26 confirmations already but needing 94 more blocks, than BTC earned elsewhere.  Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.  Bitcoins mined on another pool have not that demarcation.

But the question I wish to ask, is the minimum payout stat changeable on the configuration page?  I have Bitcoin-QT on another machine than the one having the cookie storing the receive address.  I generated the signed message which included in the encrypted string a lowering of the minimum payout trigger to 0.1000btc but it didn't take.  After the initial payout since the signed message configuration change I expected the payout to be lowered but it was not.  Is the minimum not changeable below what is dictated by the value equation used by Eligius staff?

A standard bitcoin transaction is spendable after only one confirmation, and fully confirmed after 6 confirmations.  When a new block is mined, the coinbase transaction that gives the 25 BTC + transaction fees requires 120 confirmations before it is spendable.

Most pools send the output of the coinbase transaction to a pool-owned address, then pay you in a separate normal transaction.  It will appear in your wallet as 'unconfirmed' until one more block is mined (the confirmation).  Eligius (and also P2pool) pay miners directly from the coinbase transaction.  That's why the transaction shows up a a 'mined' transaction which shows up as 'immature', and takes 120 confirmations to mature.

You can set you minimum payout to anything >= 0.01 BTC.  If it didn't work, it probably means that the signature failed.  It should tell you whether if it passed or failed a few lines up toward the top of the page.


Again I misunderstand verifying messages.  When verifying, it doesn't decode and present the message, one needs to put coding address, the exact message, and the signature then if it is accurate it will say Message verified.  Which it just did.
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November 09, 2013, 11:58:14 PM
 #2624


The payout went smoothly with the new block.  I notice it seems less 'spendable', having 26 confirmations already but needing 94 more blocks, than BTC earned elsewhere.  Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.  Bitcoins mined on another pool have not that demarcation.

But the question I wish to ask, is the minimum payout stat changeable on the configuration page?  I have Bitcoin-QT on another machine than the one having the cookie storing the receive address.  I generated the signed message which included in the encrypted string a lowering of the minimum payout trigger to 0.1000btc but it didn't take.  After the initial payout since the signed message configuration change I expected the payout to be lowered but it was not.  Is the minimum not changeable below what is dictated by the value equation used by Eligius staff?

A standard bitcoin transaction is spendable after only one confirmation, and fully confirmed after 6 confirmations.  When a new block is mined, the coinbase transaction that gives the 25 BTC + transaction fees requires 120 confirmations before it is spendable.

Most pools send the output of the coinbase transaction to a pool-owned address, then pay you in a separate normal transaction.  It will appear in your wallet as 'unconfirmed' until one more block is mined (the confirmation).  Eligius (and also P2pool) pay miners directly from the coinbase transaction.  That's why the transaction shows up a a 'mined' transaction which shows up as 'immature', and takes 120 confirmations to mature.

You can set you minimum payout to anything >= 0.01 BTC.  If it didn't work, it probably means that the signature failed.  It should tell you whether if it passed or failed a few lines up toward the top of the page.


Again I misunderstand verifying messages.  When verifying, it doesn't decode and present the message, one needs to put coding address, the exact message, and the signature then if it is accurate it will say Message verified.  Which it just did.

Yes, submitting a signed message of only the minimum payout happened immediately after submission.  Thanks.  (Too bad there isn't a fix for these super long blocks.)
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November 10, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
 #2625

Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.
I don't know that any nation has a rule like that... the closest I'm aware of would be FINCEN's guidance that created virtual currency has such regulatory properties - but miners just discover coins predetermined by the protocol, they don't create them. In any case, I doubt any legal institution cares about technicalities.

Thanks.  It was the FINCEN guidance I was referring to but then I take it that never became legally binding for US citizens?
As far as I know, it's been legally binding since even before the guidance was written (ie, they were just explaining the law's application).
IANAL, but miners don't create bitcoins, so it doesn't apply to us at all.

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November 10, 2013, 01:27:08 AM
 #2626

Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.
I don't know that any nation has a rule like that... the closest I'm aware of would be FINCEN's guidance that created virtual currency has such regulatory properties - but miners just discover coins predetermined by the protocol, they don't create them. In any case, I doubt any legal institution cares about technicalities.

Thanks.  It was the FINCEN guidance I was referring to but then I take it that never became legally binding for US citizens?
As far as I know, it's been legally binding since even before the guidance was written (ie, they were just explaining the law's application).
IANAL, but miners don't create bitcoins, so it doesn't apply to us at all.

I think I have it.  We work to solve to some degree a mathematical puzzle.  When the puzzle is solved to the current requirement there is a reward of 25 Bitcoins.  Those Bitcoins were not 'created' in the solving of the mathematical puzzle to the required degree, those Bitcoins were created at the very inception of the Bitcoin concept, in a strictly limited quantity which will be apportioned out over time.  Miners do not create Bitcoins.  The FINCEN regulation is technically and legally wrong.
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November 10, 2013, 02:02:40 AM
 #2627

Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.
I don't know that any nation has a rule like that... the closest I'm aware of would be FINCEN's guidance that created virtual currency has such regulatory properties - but miners just discover coins predetermined by the protocol, they don't create them. In any case, I doubt any legal institution cares about technicalities.

Thanks.  It was the FINCEN guidance I was referring to but then I take it that never became legally binding for US citizens?
As far as I know, it's been legally binding since even before the guidance was written (ie, they were just explaining the law's application).
IANAL, but miners don't create bitcoins, so it doesn't apply to us at all.

I think I have it.  We work to solve to some degree a mathematical puzzle.  When the puzzle is solved to the current requirement there is a reward of 25 Bitcoins.  Those Bitcoins were not 'created' in the solving of the mathematical puzzle to the required degree, those Bitcoins were created at the very inception of the Bitcoin concept, in a strictly limited quantity which will be apportioned out over time.  Miners do not create Bitcoins.  The FINCEN regulation is technically and legally wrong.
FINCEN never said they were talking about miners, AFAIK. They were just talking about virtual currencies in general.
Linden is the administrator of Second Life virtual currency - that rule applies to them since they do just create it.
It doesn't have an equivalent in Bitcoin.

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November 10, 2013, 03:06:14 AM
 #2628

TY
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November 10, 2013, 06:10:07 AM
 #2629


The payout went smoothly with the new block.  I notice it seems less 'spendable', having 26 confirmations already but needing 94 more blocks, than BTC earned elsewhere.  Also the clear demarcation of 'Mined'.  I wonder if this will prove a problem with that obscure rule that mined bitcoins make one an international money transfer agent if one tries to use it for anything but barter.  Bitcoins mined on another pool have not that demarcation.

But the question I wish to ask, is the minimum payout stat changeable on the configuration page?  I have Bitcoin-QT on another machine than the one having the cookie storing the receive address.  I generated the signed message which included in the encrypted string a lowering of the minimum payout trigger to 0.1000btc but it didn't take.  After the initial payout since the signed message configuration change I expected the payout to be lowered but it was not.  Is the minimum not changeable below what is dictated by the value equation used by Eligius staff?

A standard bitcoin transaction is spendable after only one confirmation, and fully confirmed after 6 confirmations.  When a new block is mined, the coinbase transaction that gives the 25 BTC + transaction fees requires 120 confirmations before it is spendable.

Most pools send the output of the coinbase transaction to a pool-owned address, then pay you in a separate normal transaction.  It will appear in your wallet as 'unconfirmed' until one more block is mined (the confirmation).  Eligius (and also P2pool) pay miners directly from the coinbase transaction.  That's why the transaction shows up a a 'mined' transaction which shows up as 'immature', and takes 120 confirmations to mature.

You can set you minimum payout to anything >= 0.01 BTC.  If it didn't work, it probably means that the signature failed.  It should tell you whether if it passed or failed a few lines up toward the top of the page.


Again I misunderstand verifying messages.  When verifying, it doesn't decode and present the message, one needs to put coding address, the exact message, and the signature then if it is accurate it will say Message verified.  Which it just did.

If your minimum payout didn't change, I would try submitting a new set of settings with a new signed message and ensure that it gives you the message at the top afterwards telling you that the signatures passed.

As for the 120 confirmations required for mined coins, I'll note that other pools pay the coins to their own wallet first, wait the 120 confirmations, *then* send you the coins at some point after this making you wait for more confirmations.  Eligius's method is superior, in my opinion, as you can a) spend the coins immediately upon full confirmation, and b) the pool doesn't "touch" your coins and you don't risk losing them to any pool-side issue in the mean time.  For example, if Eligius is hacked, there are no miner coins available to be stolen, since the coins are already paid directly from the blocks to the miners.

-wk

Edit: I just noticed the later post where you had already gotten the settings to work. Wink

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November 10, 2013, 07:17:14 AM
 #2630

I've been thinking a bit on how to smoothen variance here.
One idea.

As pools' buffer is very unlikely to turn positive in the foreseeable future, intruduce the second buffer, which will be built from tx fees exclusively. Every lucky round it's increasing and can only be spent when the round is unlucky.
This way current miners will have some sort of buffer against future unluck, while currently during lucky rounds all credit goes to old miners.
Currently fees don't constitute much, but still can smoothen medium-term earnings.

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November 10, 2013, 07:18:57 AM
 #2631

I've been thinking a bit on how to smoothen variance here.
One idea.

As pools' buffer is very unlikely to turn positive in the foreseeable future, intruduce the second buffer, which will be built from tx fees exclusively. Every lucky round it's increasing and can only be spent when the round is unlucky.
This way current miners will have some sort of buffer against future unluck, while currently during lucky rounds all credit goes to old miners.
Currently fees don't constitute much, but still can still smoothen medium-term earnings.



This should make no real difference, long term, compared to the current setup of paying fees to the share log during all rounds.

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November 10, 2013, 07:23:44 AM
 #2632

I've been thinking a bit on how to smoothen variance here.
One idea.

As pools' buffer is very unlikely to turn positive in the foreseeable future, intruduce the second buffer, which will be built from tx fees exclusively. Every lucky round it's increasing and can only be spent when the round is unlucky.
This way current miners will have some sort of buffer against future unluck, while currently during lucky rounds all credit goes to old miners.
Currently fees don't constitute much, but still can still smoothen medium-term earnings.



This should make no real difference, long term, compared to the current setup of paying fees to the share log during all rounds.
Long term yes, but short term? Having buffer will allow more shares to be paid during unlucky times.
Expecially since there are sometimes block with significant fees.

I proposed it because back when Eligius planned abandoning SMPPS, you were discussing options on how to prevent SMPPS credit from being a burden on active miners.

"The centralization measure is the cost of the option to create a new full node" - Measuring Decentralization
Why Bitcoin XT is a piece of nonsense
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wizkid057
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November 10, 2013, 07:25:37 AM
 #2633

I've been thinking a bit on how to smoothen variance here.
One idea.

As pools' buffer is very unlikely to turn positive in the foreseeable future, intruduce the second buffer, which will be built from tx fees exclusively. Every lucky round it's increasing and can only be spent when the round is unlucky.
This way current miners will have some sort of buffer against future unluck, while currently during lucky rounds all credit goes to old miners.
Currently fees don't constitute much, but still can still smoothen medium-term earnings.



This should make no real difference, long term, compared to the current setup of paying fees to the share log during all rounds.
Long term yes, but short term?
Expecially since there are sometimes block with significant fees.

I proposed it because back when Eligius planned abandoning SMPPS, you were discussing options on how to prevent SMPPS credit from being a burden on active miners.

The only thing this change will do is add more variance to how transaction fees are distributed by basically flipping a coin as to whether or not to distribute them or not each round (lucky or unlucky), which is undesirable.

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November 10, 2013, 07:27:09 AM
 #2634

I've been thinking a bit on how to smoothen variance here.
One idea.

As pools' buffer is very unlikely to turn positive in the foreseeable future, intruduce the second buffer, which will be built from tx fees exclusively. Every lucky round it's increasing and can only be spent when the round is unlucky.
This way current miners will have some sort of buffer against future unluck, while currently during lucky rounds all credit goes to old miners.
Currently fees don't constitute much, but still can still smoothen medium-term earnings.



This should make no real difference, long term, compared to the current setup of paying fees to the share log during all rounds.
Long term yes, but short term?
Expecially since there are sometimes block with significant fees.

I proposed it because back when Eligius planned abandoning SMPPS, you were discussing options on how to prevent SMPPS credit from being a burden on active miners.

The only thing this change will do is add more variance to how transaction fees are distributed by basically flipping a coin as to whether or not to distribute them or not each round (lucky or unlucky), which is undesirable.
Yep, looks like you're right, it seems to only make the system more complicated.

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November 10, 2013, 07:15:24 PM
 #2635

Stats stuck?  Seem to have the same stats for the last few hours.
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November 10, 2013, 08:03:52 PM
 #2636

Stats stuck?  Seem to have the same stats for the last few hours.

Stats look fine...

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November 10, 2013, 10:15:10 PM
 #2637

Is there a way to find out how far back in the sharelog we are at any given time? Like, 'the shares being paid out now are from 4 months ago' when we have great luck....

Society doesn't scale.
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November 11, 2013, 01:12:03 AM
 #2638

Is there a way to find out how far back in the sharelog we are at any given time? Like, 'the shares being paid out now are from 4 months ago' when we have great luck....

This has actually been asked a few times recently.  The short answer is no.

The long answer is here in this post and the followup posts shortly behind it.

In the future I plan on adding a sort of histogram to show users where in the share log their shares are.

-wk

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November 11, 2013, 01:22:31 AM
 #2639

Is there a way to find out how far back in the sharelog we are at any given time? Like, 'the shares being paid out now are from 4 months ago' when we have great luck....

This has actually been asked a few times recently.  The short answer is no.

The long answer is here in this post and the followup posts shortly behind it.

In the future I plan on adding a sort of histogram to show users where in the share log their shares are.

-wk

awesome ty. The lack of this feature speaks to the pool's efficient principles. Still, in the future....

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November 11, 2013, 04:04:44 AM
 #2640

I am finding that I am having inconsistent hash rates because I am either getting too low of pool difficulty or too high, for 24 hours I switched over to another pool that had manual difficulty setting, what I did was took ckolivas's advice by doing total Gh/s / 1.4 and was getting very consistent hash rates.  I see that the manual difficulty setting is not yet enabled, can the dev's update us on when this feature will be enabled so advanced miners may have a little more control over their hash rate fluctuations
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