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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875119 times)
ninjarobot
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December 26, 2013, 08:07:07 PM
 #5061

But if HF converted BTC to USD at the time of payment AND/OR used customer funds ..

Again, this has nothing to do with me or any other customer. Whatever they did after I sent them BTC directly (no 3rd party service) is on them, not me. If they converted to USD, that's their mistake , not mine.

Yes, but there is also this thing called reality. And reality is a bitch.
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December 26, 2013, 08:08:39 PM
 #5062

So to all you people that paid in BTC and want refunds in BTC.. What would you want as a refund if Bitcoin was way less than you paid? Say 30$/BTC?

Would you all still be demanding BTC refunds?

This indirect investment idea is dumb. If you didn't invest in BTC, expecting the price to go up, than that's it..

I'm not defending HF. We should be focusing our anger in getting what we paid for and perhaps being compensated for the lies.

I agree. It is ridiculous to assume HF is going to pay out of pocket because you decided you want your btc back now that it is worth more. If you made a preorder, you are automatically converting btc to fiat or the equivalent.

Preordering asics is not some kind of hedge against the price of bitcoin as many are attempting to use it as.

Just like holding btc, preordering asics is a gamble and with HF it looks like it turned out to be a bad bet.
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December 26, 2013, 08:08:58 PM
 #5063

Please everyone stop with the 'is it usd value or btc value being returned'  

asked and answered many times... if you paid 51 btc , 51 will be returned..

ps:  ( I have it in writing, insisted on it before I ordered...)

Excuse me sir, but I don't believe you. It's fishy you claim something and don't want to prove it, while it can cost you nothing to do so. If there is some personal data on it, just photoshop some black ink over it.

No offense jjiimm_64, but I'm starting to be suspicious that people like you, who claim such a thing, a HF shills who wan't to make all of us to ask for a refund and than scam us by returning just a small part of BTC. I'm not saying you are HF shill, but it sure is fishy you claim something very sensitive that can cost a lot of people a lot of money, and you don't want to prove it. Isn't it odd you are the only one to have such a thing in writing, and no one else but you have it?

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December 26, 2013, 08:09:06 PM
 #5064

But if HF converted BTC to USD at the time of payment AND/OR used customer funds ..

Again, this has nothing to do with me or any other customer. Whatever they did after I sent them BTC directly (no 3rd party service) is on them, not me. If they converted to USD, that's their mistake , not mine.

If you paid via Bitpay you will not see a BTC refund in the same amount as paid -- it will be refunded in BTC at the prevailing exchange rate.

If you paid HF directly with BTC then there is a chance you will get a BTC refund in the same BTC amount as paid.

My $.02  Cheesy

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December 26, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
 #5065

So to all you people that paid in BTC and want refunds in BTC.. What would you want as a refund if Bitcoin was way less than you paid? Say 30$/BTC?

Would you all still be demanding BTC refunds?

This indirect investment idea is dumb. If you didn't invest in BTC, expecting the price to go up, than that's it..

I'm not defending HF. We should be focusing our anger in getting what we paid for and perhaps being compensated for the lies.


Yes, I would still want my bitcoins back... I want to hold bitcoins, not USD.  I learned a valuable lesson after the BFL fiasco....  I ordered in june of 2012.. paid in btc.. also sold 220k ltc for bitcoins to order in Sept 2012.....

When it came time to order from another asic manufacture.. I decided on HF.. and wanted a guarantee that I would either get the equipment or my bitcoins back.. regardless of the exchange rate..


on a side thought of not wanting the usd's..... has anyone considered shorting the big banks Smiley


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December 26, 2013, 08:12:54 PM
 #5066


on a side thought of not wanting the usd's..... has anyone considered shorting the big banks Smiley



http://www.proshares.com/funds/skf.html

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December 26, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
 #5067

Someone really believed that the exchange rate could go lower than 100$ after that we ordered? I bought from HF because i wanted to do a BTC investment, and i repeated this point to josh when he was trying to calm me down at amsterdam because i was pissed off by what i was seeing. (BTC around 140)

I will want my BTC back, as it was promised, all of them. I don't care about anything else.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
joshv06
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December 26, 2013, 08:23:54 PM
 #5068

Someone really believed that the exchange rate could go lower than 100$ after that we ordered?

The why the hell didn't you just buy BTC?

You don't invest in BTC by buying something in BTC. You invest in BTC by buying BTC.

It's like wanting to roll back BTC you sold for really low on Mt Gox and wanting the Bitcoins back instead of what you would get in USD.

Or losing at a casino table and wanting a refund.

You didn't invest in Bitcoin. You invested in an Asic rig. Lets focus on getting what we paid for.


 
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cedivad
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December 26, 2013, 08:25:49 PM
 #5069

The why the hell didn't you just buy BTC?
I was holding BTC, genius.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
ninjarobot
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December 26, 2013, 08:26:12 PM
 #5070

But if HF converted BTC to USD at the time of payment AND/OR used customer funds ..

Again, this has nothing to do with me or any other customer. Whatever they did after I sent them BTC directly (no 3rd party service) is on them, not me. If they converted to USD, that's their mistake , not mine.

If you paid via Bitpay you will not see a BTC refund in the same amount as paid -- it will be refunded in BTC at the prevailing exchange rate.

If you paid HF directly with BTC then there is a chance you will get a BTC refund in the same BTC amount as paid.

My $.02  Cheesy

And you came to this conclusion based on what exactly?

It should not matter if you paid to a bitcoin address trough BitPay or any other means. You paid in BTC. period.

The merchant can decide what to do with BTC payments via BitPay:

https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-deposit

Quote
Merchants can receive settlement in their local currency with a guaranteed exchange rate, or keep the bitcoins, or a percentage split. If you choose to keep bitcoin, BitPay will forward your bitcoins to your wallet address on file.

HF should not have touched the customer funds until after delivery. However they likely did use those funds to cover NRE so I assume they converted to USD. If they did, that money is likely spent and they are unable to provide full refunds in BTC to all Batch 1 customers that might request one after the missed delivery date.

That does not mean I agree with this (I don't) but this is the reality we will have to deal with. I would not be surprised to see them settle and provide full BTC refunds to select customers that take the legal route, but this will be the minority.



cedivad
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December 26, 2013, 08:28:59 PM
 #5071

I ordered after the tapeout. All of the fab payments had to be already done by then. So they need to have my BTC.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
itod
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December 26, 2013, 08:36:59 PM
 #5072

That does not mean I agree with this (I don't) but this is the reality we will have to deal with. I would not be surprised to see them settle and provide full BTC refunds to select customers that take the legal route, but this will be the minority.

There's a clause in original TOS that says they can change TOS in the future. I don't know if this is legal or not, it would be very useful if we can get qualified legal opinion on this issue.

If this is legal, legal actions against HF are questionable. How can you win against someone who can change the rules while the game is on? There was a quote on this thread where HF CEO said he talked with Josh, and Josh told him that not a single customer won a legal action against BFL. It's obvious they want to go the same route, so it is totally unimportnat if they have or have not the BTC to do the full refunds, they don't *want* to do the full refunds. Look it from their perspective: Why would they do it if they don't have to do it?

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cedivad
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December 26, 2013, 08:39:32 PM
 #5073

I really can't wait to sue them. 20k, 50k, whatever the cost is, i will find a way to destroy them. And i will be an happy and poor bitcoiner after that.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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December 26, 2013, 08:46:14 PM
 #5074



 You paid in BTC. period.



you guys have to accept that the miner was priced in $$$$$   not   BTC

if you gave them 40 goats you wouldn't get the same goats back if the price of goats shot up 10x

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December 26, 2013, 08:50:15 PM
 #5075

Sure, expect for the fact that the people who took our goats promised us to give back the same amount of goats. A promise that was repeated, and never withdrawn so far. So yes, sure, you are free to eat your promise, and i'm free to sue you to death.
All of what i was scared of in October is becoming true, but i'm ready for that.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
jjiimm_64
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December 26, 2013, 08:53:07 PM
 #5076


you guys have to accept that the miner was priced in $$$$$   not   BTC



NO, they have to accept that they owe the first batch buyers X bitcoins.  As I have told you, they promised me in writing that this is the case and I would NOT have ordered otherwise..


edit:  this is not what worries me.... I am pretty sure they will get the rigs out the door before the 31st...

I think what I am mad at is myself for drinking the fukin 'october' coolaid... and on top of that.. not fully realizing how much the hashrate would be by Jan1. 

(I think i always knew it would be around xmas delivery)

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jjiimm_64
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December 26, 2013, 08:57:36 PM
 #5077


you guys have to accept that the miner was priced in $$$$$   not   BTC



NO, they have to accept that they owe the first batch buyers X bitcoins.  As I have told you, they promised me in writing that this is the case and I would NOT have ordered otherwise..

Can you post that here, please?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4155681#msg4155681

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ninjarobot
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December 26, 2013, 08:59:46 PM
 #5078

There's a clause in original TOS that says they can change TOS in the future. I don't know if this is legal or not, it would be very useful if we can get qualified legal opinion on this issue.

I can not find this clause in the original TOS. Can you point it out? http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRf

Quote
If this is legal, legal actions against HF are questionable. How can you win against someone who can change the rules while the game is on?

Just because something is in a TOS does not mean it is enforceable.
http://griesslaw.com/blog/enforceability-of-web-based-terms-of-sale.html

you guys have to accept that the miner was priced in $$$$$   not   BTC


Yes, and I preferred to pay in USD but they did not offer that option. Cypherdoc was pretty clear HF only wanted to take BTC. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270363.msg2894478#msg2894478

Quote
no, they want only those committed to leaving their BTC with HashFast until the end of the year.  if they fail to deliver, they have said they will give full refunds in BTC.

The problem is that HF does all their communication through 'liasons' so they are not on the hook for any of these statements made on their behalf.
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December 26, 2013, 09:00:41 PM
 #5079

Sure, expect for the fact that the people who took our goats promised us to give back the same amount of goats. A promise that was repeated, and never withdrawn so far. So yes, sure, you are free to eat your promise, and i'm free to sue you to death.
All of what i was scared of in October is becoming true, but i'm ready for that.

If that said that, damn they are total lying scammers...  surprised you all aren't on a plane to San Fran by now

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December 26, 2013, 09:03:03 PM
 #5080


Yes, and I preferred to pay in USD but they did not offer that option. Cypherdoc was pretty clear HF only wanted to take BTC. See:

I understand that, but that is just the delivery of the $$$ value but as the others said, HF was so full of bullshit that they also stated they would pay the same amount of BTC back..

that is a crazy and you all should sharpen your pitchforks

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