HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[cedivad]

Here is my chat with Josh: (huge image)
https://i.imgur.com/XLQIa1g.png

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...Also, when I ordered the dates were pretty clear. It did not say 'Anticipated to ship' at the time.

Actually, their terms of sale were always on the site.  I made a few comments about the year-end date, but was shouted down for spreading FUD.
Go figure...
*Bitcoinorama also tried pointing out that lack of PP/CC payment options was a red flag.  He was labeled a FUDster 2.

[joshv06]

Here is my chat with Josh: (huge image)
https://i.imgur.com/XLQIa1g.png

Wow. So with MPP, it is only calculated in BTC. But when it comes to ROI, he switches to USD?

HF_John is starting to look like BFL_Josh..

Josh is a dumb name by the way

[cedivad]

You mean, they underestimate the power of angry customers that have paid full up front in a irreversible currency while agreeing to ToS that state they will receive their October order no later than December 31st? I wish you luck.

Precisely. We can get a BTC refund anytime before the delivery date, we can refuse to accept the shipment, etc. With the state closing down silk road, they can't ignore btc anymore and call it play money.
So, since that they are a company, the have to complain with laws.

Puppet, i will start ignoring you from now on (i rarely ignore people, but you are deviating this conversation).

[cedivad]

Anyway, is there a follow up to this?

Yes, a question mark. I guess he is reading the thread.
You should have seen John vs Josh at the bitcoin conference@Amsterdam a few weeks ago.

[ImI]

"MPP starts when shipping starts." I like that indeed. And as a customer of several Jupiters i think it would be very nice if KNC have had such a programm.

[Puppet]

Wow. So with MPP, it is only calculated in BTC. But when it comes to ROI, he switches to USD?

dont give them ideas. If they calculate ROI in dollar for the MPP, you will be far more screwed even.


In their defence though, being one or two weeks late is not exactly unheard of in this sector, its not illegal, it doesnt entitle you to jack shit according to the terms you agreed to. The one thing thats screwing over all HF customers more than anything is that KnC delivered in spades (even if also a bit late), and you probably didnt expect that, or you would have ordered with them. You can hardly blame Hashfast for KnC succeeding.

[RoadStress]

With knc shipping in volumes, i'm not sure that this is correct.

KNC is just about done shipping Sept/Oct batch.  About a week ago they indicated they were 500 of 1500 units complete.   Figure 100 units per day they are probably >1000 units shipped and 400 to go.  They could be done by the end of the week.  Regardless of if it takes them a day or week to wrap up at most KNC is "only" adding another 150 to 200 TH/s from batch 1 (probably less).

KNC has stated Nov batch will not ship before 15 Nov and they also promised to the Batch 1 customers that Batch 2 would be 30 days after last batch 1.  I doubt it will be the full 30 days but I can't see them spitting on their batch 1 customers by shipping batch 2 (which could be up to 2 PH/s) earlier than 15 Nov.

We should remember that while KNC may not ship Batch 2 faster than 30 days, they can assemble the units and have them all shipped in 2-3 days.

OT: DeathAndTaxes have you invested in HF ?

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Here is my chat with Josh: (huge image)
https://i.imgur.com/XLQIa1g.png

Nasty^^.  Reminds me of my next door neighbor, a cop, once saying: "People don't understand what we do.  They think we're their friends and that we're there to help."

[mgio]

The situation is a little tricky.

If a company doesn't give you a delivery time, they must deliver within 30 days.

In HashFast's case, they DID give a time: 0ct 20-30 to begin shipping in order of payment.

If that is interpreted as a shipping date, in which case they are now late. If it is considered that they haven't given a firm shipment date at all, they have 30 days, so for everyone who ordered more than 30 days ago, they are late.

If a company is going to be later than 30 days, they must contact their customers and give them an option of a refund or continuing to wait.

Now the only potential snag is that HashFast said they would give refunds only if they were delayed later than Dec 31. If Dec 31 is interpreted as the shipment date, then they we are screwed.

But I only see the Oct 20-30 date referenced in my invoice and all my correspondence with them. Was the Dec 31 clause added later? If so, that is not legit. Everything that hashfast has said up to this point has implied a Oct 20-30 shipment date and no one has signed any contracts agreeing to anything else.

Therefore I believe we are entitled to refunds under the FTC's rules. Here is some background (for businesses) on the FTC's Mail and Telephone Order Rule:

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

[Puppet]

Was the Dec 31 clause added later?

Its been there the first time I looked, but Ill be damned if I remember when that was. FWIW, their ToS state "This agreement is in effect as of Aug 02, 2013."

[mgio]

I have gotten a call from HF. They said they're going to see what they can do. I shall post back to see what they offer..

I expressed that I don't just want them to get my back, but every one in Batch 1, and every one of their customers for that matter. I suggest everyone calls and demand compensation. We should not be picking up the tab.

For the record, I called Friday the 18th. They said everything was on schedule.

Also, difficulty rises 2x a month. So a month delay means half the profits in BTC. Random fact.

Josh

I like this idea.

I actually don't want to cancel my order. I just want a rebate for the 2+ week delay, whether it be in btc, cash, or additional mining hardware that will at least give me the chance of making ROI on my order.

Also I would like firm dates for when the "November" and "December" batch units will ship so that I can judge whether those are worthwhile or not. Or whether it makes sense to cancel my batch 1 order and keep my Nov order.

The way things stand now we have no chance of making ROI. The next difficulty adjustment will likely be around 50%. Even with a Nov 15 ship date and the hashrate increase dropping to jsut 25% for the rest of the year, we will still not make ROI.

[cedivad]

I actually don't want to cancel my order. I just want a rebate for the 2+ week delay, whether it be in btc, cash, or additional mining hardware that will at least give me the chance of making ROI on my order.

The problem is that this 2+ week delay will be like 50%+ of the btc we will ever earn.
So i don't think they will be willed to offer a "rebate" for that.

[paranoidx]

I have gotten a call from HF. They said they're going to see what they can do. I shall post back to see what they offer..

I expressed that I don't just want them to get my back, but every one in Batch 1, and every one of their customers for that matter. I suggest everyone calls and demand compensation. We should not be picking up the tab.

For the record, I called Friday the 18th. They said everything was on schedule.

Also, difficulty rises 2x a month. So a month delay means half the profits in BTC. Random fact.

Josh

I like this idea.

I actually don't want to cancel my order. I just want a rebate for the 2+ week delay, whether it be in btc, cash, or additional mining hardware that will at least give me the chance of making ROI on my order.

Also I would like firm dates for when the "November" and "December" batch units will ship so that I can judge whether those are worthwhile or not. Or whether it makes sense to cancel my batch 1 order and keep my Nov order.

The way things stand now we have no chance of making ROI. The next difficulty adjustment will likely be around 50%. Even with a Nov 15 ship date and the hashrate increase dropping to jsut 25% for the rest of the year, we will still not make ROI.

This ^
+1

[mgio]

I actually don't want to cancel my order. I just want a rebate for the 2+ week delay, whether it be in btc, cash, or additional mining hardware that will at least give me the chance of making ROI on my order.

The problem is that this 2+ week delay will be like 50%+ of the btc we will ever earn.
So i don't think they will be willed to offer a "rebate" for that.

No, I don't think so either. But additional hashing power or modification to the MPP is more likely and would be just as good. Once their chips are designed and working, silicon is cheap for them.

[cedivad]

No, I don't think so either. But additional hashing power or modification to the MPP is more likely and would be just as good. Once their chips are designed and working, silicon is cheap for them.

A significative change to the MPP is the only thing i see them doing.

[Visesrion]

Instead of modifying the MPP why does not HF tranfer the first babyjet orders into sierras ?

The price was the same for a BJ and for a sierra with no MPP in those sale days with november shipping. Indeed, the chips/boards are the same, so the only thing that changes is the case, which seems that they are only improving for sierras and not BJ. They dont have the chips so I doubt they have already ordered the cases for the BJs (which I am still waiting photos)

If they ship sierras for the first batch you compensate these customers for the delay, you reward them for been the first going into this, you compensate them for offering a product with 3 times more hashing power with 1 month (lets see how much is now..) gap and no saying a word, you open a chance to make ROI, so in the end those wafers that HF is supposed to have payed already, you could sell them as MPP does not have to be executed.

[dexX7]

Here is a question about MPP v2:

A November Baby Jet costs $ 2760 without MPP and $ 4560 with MPP. This means the MPP costs $ 1800.

If the Bitcoin network hashrate increases so that your Baby Jet doesn’t generate more Bitcoins in ninety days than you paid for it, HashFast will give you additional ASICs.

What amount is covered by the MPP? $ 2760 for the BJ or $ 4560 for the BJ + MPP?

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Here is a question about MPP v2:

A November Baby Jet costs $ 2760 without MPP and $ 4560 with MPP. This means the MPP costs $ 1800.

If the Bitcoin network hashrate increases so that your Baby Jet doesn’t generate more Bitcoins in ninety days than you paid for it, HashFast will give you additional ASICs.

What amount is covered by the MPP? $ 2760 for the BJ or $ 4560 for the BJ + MPP?

Also, can you buy MPP on the MPP boards? 

[starsoccer9]

great to know we give trust to a no name company and as usual they screw there customers.
Hashfast said i belive multiple times about how they had multiple backup plans incase any one part of there production failed obviously that was an outright lie. It is clear to me that they pretty much planned everything at the last second. They on october 18th decided to switch power supplies? That is something that should of been decided a long time ago not 2 days before expected delivery.

Quite funny to see how quickly cypherdoc disappears from the chat and no longer has anything to say.