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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 775142 times)
P4man
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November 16, 2011, 10:51:51 PM
 #541

I guess we will soon see whether litecoin is just another failcoin copy of bitcoin, or if it actually has something to offer that bitcoin doesn't.

Although litecoin has a few actual advantages over BTC, the reason Im suggesting it is not that Im convinced it will take over the world. Its because bitminter's cpu mining speed is (no offense) useless, replacing it with litecoin mining would make it useful.

Litecoin price/difficulty doesnt make it hugely profitable but at least for now, certainly more interesting than namecoins. The fact it can be done with cpus and doesnt need drivers or highend amd cards, would also be a strong asset for any syndication deal that would target your miner to regular folks, rather than us nerds.

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teflone
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November 17, 2011, 05:09:33 AM
 #542

Damn! Shocked Where do I get one of those, and what's the price?

Made in Germany by ZTEX. http://www.ztex.de/ Paid 327 Euros.

Ummmm wow..


How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..

But man that looks attractive..


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November 17, 2011, 05:17:59 AM
 #543

How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..
But man that looks attractive..

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.
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November 17, 2011, 05:49:21 AM
 #544

How many watts do you pull from it ? roughly if you dont know for sure..
But man that looks attractive..

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.

Wow... thats like a small solar panel  car battery tender..

I've always loved the free power hashing idea..  hence me speaking of solar panels..

One Philips commerical 100 watt panel is about 500 bucks these days.. could power ten of these fpga's with a very small battery bank..

Free money!

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November 17, 2011, 07:26:34 AM
 #545

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.
Free money!

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.

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November 17, 2011, 04:43:26 PM
 #546

From ztek thread it is <8.5W.  Roughly 22MH/W.  Make my "efficient" 2.6MH/W GPU rig look like a coal guzzling monster.
Free money!

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.


Yes ridiculous ROI time frame for solar...   But thats solar for ya!   expensive panels.

But yes, at least the equipment has some value other than hashin.. Tongue

Im only hashing for the extra heat at the price it is now, I figure its the only heater I know that returns some of the money it costs to run.. Smiley

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November 17, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
 #547

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.

Its worse than that. Keep in mind bitcoin generation will have halved twice in that time span.

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November 17, 2011, 06:24:29 PM
 #548

After a boatload of money invested in task-specific hw that you could not resell if BTC fails.
And at this price 0.21 USD/24h@100MHash/s http://bitcoinx.com/charts/ means that you produce about 0.33 USD each 24 hours with that, not counting electricity.  That means about 100 USD/year, so maybe 4-5 years before recovering the investment.

Its worse than that. Keep in mind bitcoin generation will have halved twice in that time span.

Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss one would expect to see either prices rise or difficulty fall (likely both) when generation rate gets cut.

For example lets pretend generation rate had been 100 coins since the beginning.  Does anyone doubt that either prices would be half current price or difficulty would be doubled?

Still the one-time drop is troublesome.  I wish Satoshi had thought to use a decaying function for block rewards (i.e. first block subsidy was 50 BTC and the last block is 1 satoshi) and every block in-between formed a smooth curve between those two data points.
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November 17, 2011, 06:37:35 PM
 #549

Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss

I think thats a given; mining at a loss or "free" electricity. BTC has lost over 90% of its value since the peak, hash rate and difficulty havent even halved.
It be surprised if more than 10% of that hash power was profitable at actual electricity rates.

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November 17, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
 #550

Well unless a significant fraction of the current 8TH operates at a loss

I think thats a given; mining at a loss or "free" electricity. BTC has lost over 90% of its value since the peak, hash rate and difficulty havent even halved.
It be surprised if more than 10% of that hash power was profitable at actual electricity rates.

Well that isn't exactly a useful metric.  At peak prices (and peak difficulty) my ROI% was >600% annually.  Coins were trading at 17x their electrical cost.  Obviously totally unsustainable.  So the decline from an utterly unsustainable speculative bubble doesn't really indicate profitability.  At $30 BTC I had a >600% ROI.   At $10 BTC I "only" had 183%. 

I mean honestly who is going to shut off a rig at "only" triple your money every year. Smiley

The peak profitability was so out of line w/ cost, risk, and effort that the drop from $30 to $6 was essentially meaningless.

While I have no doubt many have free power and some mine at a loss you honestly think that 90% of miners are either unprofitable or using free power?  Really?
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November 17, 2011, 07:20:51 PM
 #551

While I have no doubt many have free power and some mine at a loss you honestly think that 90% of miners are either unprofitable or using free power?  Really?


Much depends on how many "big" miners there are vs small ones. I suspect most of the big ones will either be profitable or shut down, since any losses would also be far bigger for them; but Im even more certain there are many more miners  who mine with one or two cards, but operate at a loss, stealing electricity, have their parents/employer/landlord pay for it, speculate on future gains, or are just being plain irrational (or terrible at math, like that other dude who could double bitcoins).

The question is, how is hashrate divided between those groups? That I do not know. I would have guesssed something like half the hashrate is provided by casual miners with 2 or less GPUs, but looking at bitminters statistics for the last block (yeah, finally!), that might be mistaken, as the majority of hashrate seems to be provided by at least 3 GPUs.
Not sure if deepbit would give a similar picture though.

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November 18, 2011, 06:47:51 AM
 #552

Me, I am mining at a loss with 2 cards. Because:
- My rig now substitute air conditioning (less efficient, but a/c does not produce BTCs). Of course I would not mine in the summer at this price and difficulty.  
- I expect a growth of its price (ideally slow and sustainable) after a bottom any time from now
- I expect a spectacular FAIL of euro and USD in the next few months, which would probably boost BTC popularity and value.

From the network speed chart it seems that most of miners are on this line of reasoning, since the network speed in november was not affected by the further 30% price drop since November 1:




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November 18, 2011, 01:54:19 PM
 #553

From the network speed chart it seems that most of miners are on this line of reasoning, since the network speed in november was not affected by the further 30% price drop since November 1:

Network hashing power tends to lag price action.   Miners tend to convince themselves that prices (and thus profits) will rebound.  The cost of power is also delayed since power bills tend to come once a month.

Also saying "the 30% price drop since Nov 1" isn't a good measure.  The price drop as on 4 days ago was only about 5% and it is hard to call that a "drop" and not just part of the day to day price fluctation.  The significant drop (most of that 30%) happened less than a week ago.  If the price is still <$3.00 lets look at hashing power on Dec 14th (30 days since "the drop").

You are right about the weather though.  Most of hashing power (taking a guess based on node density) is in the Northern Hemisphere and thus the colder temps mean higher profitability.  Miners who would be unprofitable in summer (at current price/difficulty) can still be marginally profitable in the winter.

My expectation is hashing power is roughly 2TH to 3TH lower by next August.
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November 18, 2011, 06:58:16 PM
 #554

Short report from the FPGA section. The hashrates i posted were a bit too optimistic. After 24h you get steady 190 MH/s @ 184 MHz. The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

Newest software seems to slow down to about 165 MH/s after a while. I'm using 111020 instead of 111114. Would be interesting to see how fast it works at max clock frequency. 184 MHz seems to be min. I have a 92mm fan pointed at the board (cooler) so heat should not be the problem.

Hope ZTEX keeps working on the software.

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November 18, 2011, 08:35:54 PM
 #555

The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

I assume that could also be because its slower?
165 MH is a bit of a bummer though. That will take forever to pay itself back, I hope you bought it more for fun than for financial gain.

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November 18, 2011, 08:42:04 PM
 #556

Short report from the FPGA section. The hashrates i posted were a bit too optimistic. After 24h you get steady 190 MH/s @ 184 MHz. The software works well but it produces more rejects than cgminer or the Bitminter client.

How many more rejects?  If you can provide cgminer is a comparison as everyone reject rate varies by latency and other factors.
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November 18, 2011, 09:06:29 PM
 #557

That will take forever to pay itself back, I hope you bought it more for fun than for financial gain.

All the hardware money spent is gone for me. I look at it as a hobby. I mine because i like the idea of bitcoin. At the moment i burn money but with only 3 GPUs and the board i can stop whenever i want without hard feelings.

@DAT FPGA Board: Accepted 7098, Rejected 60
         5850s: Accepted 309674, Rejected 393



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November 19, 2011, 04:25:26 AM
 #558

I would just like to say "Boo yaa! "

getting lucky again.. 

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November 21, 2011, 11:17:19 PM
 #559

Website updated. Here's what's new:

  • My account -> account details: Account info rearranged. Looks better now, I think.
  • My account -> banners & avatars: Finally got dynamic banners/avatars!
  • Statistics -> luck: See our luck (CDF) from block to block.
  • Statistics -> rewards: See how our PPLNS payout compares to the expected average reward.
  • Statistics -> API: Started on a simple web service API. But I think some changes are necessary to make it more generic and "future-proof". Consider it a beta that will probably change.
  • Statistics -> Live stats, full size: Now shows the 10 latest blocks and shifts. They update whenever an update of round data indicates a change. There is a checkbox to turn on audio notifications of new blocks (off by default whenever you open that page).

If something looks funny, try clearing your browser cache and reloading the page. Some files changed that are typically cached.

Now I can have a look at the client (miner) again. Sorry for the delay, but I had to finish this web update first. Even though I'll be working on the miner next, feel free to make new suggestions for the website as well. They will go on my neverending TODO list. Grin

Update: If you already had live stats open, please reload the page. I made some changes to the data format and the old page can no longer read its data feed correctly.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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November 21, 2011, 11:21:59 PM
 #560

Awesome work. I particularly love the "luck" and 'reward' pages. But atm, the stats page doesnt seem to work. Dont think its caching issue as its not working on a fresh browser either.

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