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Author Topic: [1050 TH] BitMinter.com [1% PPLNS,Pays TxFees +MergedMining,Stratum,GBT,vardiff]  (Read 775873 times)
P4man
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December 04, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
 #601

If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

A (theoretical) infinitely large pool has no variance and is almost completely predictable. If you switch to such a pool after a stroke of bad luck at a small pool like ours, you will never make up for the bad luck youve already had. If you stick with the unlucky smaller pool with higher variance, its only a matter of time before the bad luck averages out.

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conspirosphere.tk
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December 04, 2011, 02:13:37 PM
 #602

If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

Look, I'm sorry, since I use to stand with the underdogs and I like the pool, BUT I made about 9 BTC in november mining on Bitminter, while I am making 0.5 BTC/day on BTCGuild. I have an analogy about chances which may explain why smaller pools seem to underperform more often than not: If you bet on black or red playing roulette, you have a 50%/50% chance to win, but if you bet on a number, you have 1/72 chances, if I remember well, so you might gain more if you are lucky, but rarely *if ever*. Most likely, betting on numbers at roulette or mining in smaller pools you would end losing most of the times at any given time.

Of course, in the loooooooooong term, smaller pools should perform like the biggest.

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December 04, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
 #603

If the variance in two pools is the same, then switching between them or staying in the same one makes no difference luck-wise. They both offer the same chances for future payouts. The exception is when you can know something about future payouts, as is the case with proportional pools.

Look, I'm sorry, since I use to stand with the underdogs and I like the pool, BUT I made about 9 BTC in november mining on Bitminter, while I am making 0.5 BTC/day on BTCGuild. I have an analogy about chances which may explain why smaller pools seem to underperform more often than not: If you bet on black or red playing roulette, you have a 50%/50% chance to win, but if you bet on a number, you have 1/72 chances, if I remember well, so you might gain more if you are lucky (only at roulette, since poolmining you get the same fraction of winning in bigger and smaller pools), but rarely *if ever*. Most likely, you would end losing most of the time at any given time.

Of course, in the loooooooooong term, smaller pools should perform like the biggest.

And in the short term chances of a small pool doing far better than the big pools are the same as doing worse. How much did you make in september and october? Past month was terrible, but youve already had the bad luck, switching to another pool now cant undo that, it can only consolidate your loss with almost no chance of making up for it.

Anyway, its your call of course.

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December 04, 2011, 05:58:25 PM
 #604

At the moment we have good luck at eclipse. Pay out is fair over there. But no other pool i tried out so far comes close to BitMinters stale rates and homepage  Cry.

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December 05, 2011, 08:59:37 PM
 #605

Maybe there is a way for smaller pools: just contribute the whole pool's hashrate to a bigger pool, or -even better- find a way to cooperate among small pools in a bigger pool of pools. A dozen of pools with the speed of Bitminter would make a top-tier pool. Opinions?

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December 07, 2011, 07:56:54 AM
 #606

 Huh What's going on ? Sad to see so many leave. F...ing shame  Cry

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December 07, 2011, 09:25:03 AM
 #607

Its rather clear whats going on. We are averaging over 3 million shares per block for quite some time now. Not sure what the statistical chances are over the last 11 blocks, but its definitely extremely unlucky. I suspect many worry there is something wrong with the pool or miner, or at least do like I started doing and spread their luck a bit by mining part time for bitminter and part time in a bigger pool.

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December 07, 2011, 10:05:10 AM
 #608

A couple weeks back we had 70+ Ghps with 90 users. Right now we have 44 Ghps with 101 users. It's not so much people leaving, but rather old miners spreading our their hashrate among multiple pools to reduce variance.

I'm pretty certain it's not a bug causing this. When the server sees a proof of work that beats the current difficulty it logs that fact before doing anything else. I'm not seeing any such messages without the next message stating that a block was created.

Variance is really annoying in small pools. What you are talking about, conspirosphere, is definitely the way to go. I've already been making some plans along those lines. Let's see what I can come up with..

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
DrHaribo
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December 09, 2011, 09:34:48 AM
 #609

There's an interview with me today (friday 2011.12.09) in the Norwegian business paper Dagens Næringsliv ("Business Today"), on page 24, about BitMinter.com and bitcoins in general. There's also a side article about Meze Grill. If you understand Norwegian you can buy a copy of today's paper at http://www.dn.no/avis/bestilling/dagens/eavis?execution=e1s1

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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December 09, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
 #610

Congrats Wink Now turn off this million share block limit  Tongue

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December 09, 2011, 12:16:35 PM
 #611

I'm pretty certain it's not a bug causing this. When the server sees a proof of work that beats the current difficulty it logs that fact before doing anything else. I'm not seeing any such messages without the next message stating that a block was created.

And what about the client? It could be coincidence of course, but it seems our luck turned sour around the time of the last update. Might be worth double checking what client the miners are using that have been finding blocks lately.

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December 09, 2011, 05:13:04 PM
 #612

And what about the client? It could be coincidence of course, but it seems our luck turned sour around the time of the last update. Might be worth double checking what client the miners are using that have been finding blocks lately.

The regular (non-beta) version hasn't changed in a long time. And I haven't changed anything in the beta that should affect this. 4 days ago I made an NMC block and I'm always running the beta.

We're just having a long streak of bad luck, just like we had a long streak of good luck earlier. It would be preferable with more stable payouts of course, and I'm looking into what I can do to reduce the variance.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
P4man
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December 09, 2011, 08:06:29 PM
 #613

Just noticed block 213 got confirmed and paid out instantly?

DrHaribo
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December 09, 2011, 08:17:44 PM
 #614

Just noticed block 213 got confirmed and paid out instantly?

Looking into it..

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
DrHaribo
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December 09, 2011, 10:24:50 PM
 #615

Block 213 is orphaned (aka "invalid"). Another pool created the block a few seconds before us, and our block was orphaned upon creation. As if the bad luck lately wasn't enough.

When I was reading bitcoind and namecoind source code to decipher how to implement merged mining it seems I made a mistake which lead to a bug with detection of invalid blocks. These things can happen when you hurry to implement merged mining based on undocumented features. Still, doing so was my own decision, so I can't complain.

Please note that the server always tells bitcoind to create a block when it gets a proof of work that is good enough. The long blocks lately are just plain bad luck. This bug only affects the detection of invalid blocks. It cannot lead to loss of money for miners, only for the pool op.

There never was any 50 BTC from block 213, and I didn't actually intend to pay for invalid blocks. But the 50 BTC is already paid out, and it's my fault for not properly detecting failed blocks. I'll pay it out of my own pocket.

The bad luck has to end some time, right?

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
P4man
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December 10, 2011, 09:56:13 AM
 #616

Already feared it was something like that. Nice of you to pay it anyway. This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  Undecided?

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December 10, 2011, 10:40:01 AM
 #617

This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  Undecided?

 Huh what do you mean ?

DrHaribo
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December 10, 2011, 10:48:47 AM
 #618

Already feared it was something like that. Nice of you to pay it anyway. This mine pooling business is becoming a real money printing machine for you, isnt it  Undecided?

Haha, yes. Bottom line so far is a loss of just over 200 bitcoins. Maybe it's time to implement that donation feature soon. Tongue

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
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December 10, 2011, 02:12:27 PM
 #619

Is it possible to convert Bitcoins into Namecoins?
bronan
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December 10, 2011, 02:31:48 PM
 #620

You can send any coin to an exchange and there buy the coins you want
The one i use the most is BTC-E where i do change litecoin and namecoin into bitcoin
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