Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Dot99lr]

They are obligated to immediately cash out per their customer agreement, which they are admittedly not doing --

11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.

It doesn't say anything about converting Btc into Fiat. It just says they'll use his payment to pay for materials or workmanship. They could be paying in bitcoins.

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[zurg]

They are obligated to immediately cash out per their customer agreement, which they are admittedly not doing --

11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.

It doesn't say anything about converting Btc into Fiat. It just says they'll use his payment to pay for materials or workmanship. They could be paying in bitcoins.

You're correct, it doesn't say immediately in 11.3
They had to manually cash out from BTC to FIAT. From what I remember in December or January they said they used BTC-e.
Now how often would somebody be able to manually check out? Making that for every order would be tedious process depending on how many orders they are taking though.
I would say allocating some time every few days would be ideal usage of time.

Also, at some point they said that the vendors or whoever was taking payments only in FIAT. So they had to convert. Now keep in mind some local vendors they are dealing with could be taking BTC payments, we just don't know that.

[ernie-]

Failing to cash out immediately necessarily means that they are speculating with customer funds, which means that customer funds are not actually used to pay for expenses as indicated in their policy, it means that customer funds are used to fund speculative holdings of BTC which then may later be applied to expenses. The only reason they would do this in the first place is if they believed they would make a profit doing so on top of the actual business.

This might actually explain a lot about what's going on. I've never heard of a single person actually seeing Bitcoin leave the payment address for a batch 1 customer. That would indicate that they took a capital loss on revenue in the range of 33-50% or more during the period in which batch 1 customers would've made payments. That alone can entirely explain the refund situation, as refunding batch 1 has to operate like a Ponzi where they wait for new funds to pay existing promises.

Their original payment website for batch 1 said something along the line of refusing to do business with customers that are going to resubmit orders to get the best exchange rate before executing. That probably should've been an indication of what they had in mind all along.

Sounds like speculative nonsense to me, my payment was certainly cashed out back in January.

[tempestb]

Because sending a bank wire is a huge pain in the ass vs sending Bitcoins is probably the reason they are refunding in Bitcoins.  There are also fees involved in sending wires.  The one thing that makes sense is to send a refund in Bitcoin.  Not sure what the big deal is.  They may have used the money they originally had.  They do mine there with their existing hardware from what I understand, so they probably have some coins in a pool that they can distribute but it's probably not a lot.  And then they have people still paying for new orders from time to time.

Not that much of a mystery really.  Anyway, I could care less, I just want to see my miner ship by May 1st.  If it does not, I want to see added compensation or I'll request a refund as well. 

[K1773R]

Because sending a bank wire is a huge pain in the ass vs sending Bitcoins is probably the reason they are refunding in Bitcoins.  There are also fees involved in sending wires.  The one thing that makes sense is to send a refund in Bitcoin.  Not sure what the big deal is.  They may have used the money they originally had.  They do mine there with their existing hardware from what I understand, so they probably have some coins in a pool that they can distribute but it's probably not a lot.  And then they have people still paying for new orders from time to time.

Not that much of a mystery really.  Anyway, I could care less, I just want to see my miner ship by May 1st.  If it does not, I want to see added compensation or I'll request a refund as well. 

really? im still waiting for a BTC refund so this is mostly FUD

[tempestb]

FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt

You obviously are mistaking it for "False".

One has to figure that they have to have the Bitcoin available to send it to you.  The point I was trying to make is that it's easier for them to move around Bitcoins than it is FIAT.  Whether they have Bitcoins on hand or don't want to give them to you or whatever, I dunno.  I was just saying it's easier for them to deal with Bitcoin than Fiat on refunds.  But I suppose it doesn't matter if they aren't refunding with either anyway.

[K1773R]

FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt

You obviously are mistaking it for "False".

One has to figure that they have to have the Bitcoin available to send it to you.  The point I was trying to make is that it's easier for them to move around Bitcoins than it is FIAT.  Whether they have Bitcoins on hand or don't want to give them to you or whatever, I dunno.  I was just saying it's easier for them to deal with Bitcoin than Fiat on refunds.  But I suppose it doesn't matter if they aren't refunding with either anyway.

il agree that refunding BTC is alot easier than FIAT

[zurg]

Some pictures from BA's update:
http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/17-2-april-2014-progress-update/

[ChuckBuck]

Some pictures from BA's update:
http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/17-2-april-2014-progress-update/

Is it just me or does Black Arrow have the coolest production pictures/renders?   

Sincerely hope they magically ship out on April 30th, but not getting my hopes up.

When's the next production update?

[raskul]

Some pictures from BA's update:
http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/17-2-april-2014-progress-update/

Is it just me or does Black Arrow have the coolest production pictures/renders?   

Everything but the asic

Sincerely hope they magically ship out on April 30th, but not getting my hopes up.

i hope so too, it does look rather awesome.

When's the next production update?

when asics arrive?

[david105396]

There will be more details available tomorrow.

[Adrians__]

Where is a good place to sell a X-3?

Any chance I can sell a X-3 for 5000USD, Batch one?

[terrapinflyer]

Just for reference, will update when this is resolved...

I requested a refund from MinerSource last Friday, was immediately told it would get done and mailed on Monday or Tuesday of this week, and I would receive a tracking number.  I have still not received a tracking number and have emailed twice asking for a status update.  I have no idea if it is in the mail or not, or the status of my refund.  Bobsag, please look into my email inquiry.

Thanks,

DebitMe

Well its seems like you have had more success then me, I have been trying to get a response for a week now. Not so much as a reply saying that they even received my request about a refund.

[mr.minhghi]

So how do you get Minersource to refund you, I have 2 X1's on batch 2 but every time I ask to shift to my order to a antminer they say not at this time sorry, and when i ask to cancel they don't reply not good.

batch 2 orders are not eligible for refund yet as they were technically not effected by the delay.

Hey men, im waiting my refund for two month, you said it was successful refund last one month, i have nothing until now. You didnt reply since that day, and there is nothing to prove that you sent the money. Liar, scam, you all going to jail.

[mr.minhghi]

I have just report minersource.net to Internet Crime Complaint Center, hope they will push this go faster and i can get back my money.

[bobsag3]

We have just switched banks (you will notice if you check out with Bank Wire our account is no longer a Bank of America in St Louis, but a Local Wells Fargo), due to the many issues we had sending refund wires from our BoA account. We are currently finishing moving over the funds from BoA to Wells Fargo, and anyone who is still owed a refund check by mail will be getting a Wells Fargo business check refund via UPS within the next few days. Tracking numbers will be sent via the applicable zendesk tickets.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Some pictures from BA's update:
http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/17-2-april-2014-progress-update/

Via EXIF: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=22.532167+114.051333&ie=UTF-8&ei=28U8U8LjNMPb0QGg3IDQAw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

[coolmusic]

Somebody help me, please! I am a bit too worried lately about the profitability of these miners. According to my calculations, I'll never be able to get the ROI for them

ok I try. don't forget the price of the BTC vs USD is not fixed. If the price of the BTC go up the difficult growing speed will be increased. If the price falls the difficult growing speed will slow down. An finally don't forget the re-sell value of your miner.

You can play this game in two ways: 1 buy your miner, mine for a while (maybe two months or so) sell your miner, hold the BTC's forever (well until it worth milions  ) 2 buy your miner, mine for a while, re invest your winings in another miner, start again the first step, and again, and again etc... I know this is not 100% correct but i hope you get the picture

[Cheshyr]

We have just switched banks (you will notice if you check out with Bank Wire our account is no longer a Bank of America in St Louis, but a Local Wells Fargo), due to the many issues we had sending refund wires from our BoA account. We are currently finishing moving over the funds from BoA to Wells Fargo, and anyone who is still owed a refund check by mail will be getting a Wells Fargo business check refund via UPS within the next few days. Tracking numbers will be sent via the applicable zendesk tickets.

+1.  BoA has really started screwing with bitcoin related accounts. 

[ChuckBuck]

So does it mean my calculations are right? They show the rigs won't be able to pay for their own electricity as soon as August!?

I really hope they are dead wrong, but I really couldn't come up with anything better... Otherwise, we were really hurt by the two months delay...

You're a little late to the party, but yes your calculations are probably right.  If you're still in it with BA, you're here for the pretty little pictures and boxes that'll make a nice conversation piece when it finally arrives(if).

Should've loaded up on Bitmain Antminer S1s last year.  Everyone that's bought an Ant from last year November or December has pretty much ROI'd already.

Still very attractive at $1.91/GH/s.