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VolanicEruptor
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December 04, 2013, 12:06:50 AM |
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OK well that's all speculation. Can we talk about the established facts first? I understand your point and we should come back to it but we should talk about the known facts first then move on.
So 750k divs are coming our way from November sales? That would be 3,750USD for your divs in one month from sales alone? Is that right? Wrong? And sales would be expected to surge more in the coming months. Right?
750k from refunds does not mean that we will see continuous dividends like that. If the 750k came from doing business, then I would agree with you. What is disappointing is that while we are going to be making slightly more FIAT than before, it will not bring us to the level we should be at with bitcoin being $1000. In other words, we would have all profited far more by just holding onto bitcoin, because we will NEVER see .0025 paid off in our life times. |
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VolanicEruptor
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December 04, 2013, 12:13:18 AM |
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For us to have made up for the rise in Bitcoin Price, prices on products would have had to increase 1000%. Obviously that isn't going to happen, as we can see by the 50% rise in product prices. The only way you can make the high bitcoin price work for you is to be a mining based business. There is a lot more money to be made that way, and this is the only way that .0025 payoff would be possible. You can't do it with fiat sales.
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Stuartuk
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December 04, 2013, 12:17:49 AM |
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OK well that's all speculation. Can we talk about the established facts first? I understand your point and we should come back to it but we should talk about the known facts first then move on.
So 750k divs are coming our way from November sales? That would be 3,750USD for your divs in one month from sales alone? Is that right? Wrong? And sales would be expected to surge more in the coming months. Right?
750k from refunds does not mean that we will see continuous dividends like that. If the 750k came from doing business, then I would agree with you. What is disappointing is that while we are going to be making slightly more FIAT than before, it will not bring us to the level we should be at with bitcoin being $1000. In other words, we would have all profited far more by just holding onto bitcoin, because we will NEVER see .0025 paid off in our life times. Sorry but you are just voicing your opinion again. That's fair enough, I'm about to voice mine: you do not know what hardware we are going to deploy on our farm. You are assuming infact a great deal that is negative. The thing is you state this as fact on the thread - but it's not factual atall. Your main concern seems to be Ken's trustworthyness. You said 'imagine yourself in his position'. So you are suggesting that if YOU were Ken, YOU would rip investors off by mining in secret. Maybe YOU would. Does that mean everybody would? And what if that secret mining opened you up to being locked away for the rest of your life for fraud - would it make sense to do it? If Ken can mine millions for himself he has a very very successful chip, and if he has a very very successful chip, he can roll it out to mass production and mine on out farm and make 10X more money that way. And that is legitimate, that does not put himself at risk of being locked up for fraud. So why would he commit fraud? There is no financial benifit - if he can mine for himself he can mine for ACtM. He has openly said we have enough liquid assests for chip runs. So when you examine it, nothing of your conspiracy theory makes sense. There are not even any facts to back it up. |
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Stuartuk
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December 04, 2013, 12:23:13 AM |
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For us to have made up for the rise in Bitcoin Price, prices on products would have had to increase 1000%. Obviously that isn't going to happen, as we can see by the 50% rise in product prices. The only way you can make the high bitcoin price work for you is to be a mining based business. There is a lot more money to be made that way, and this is the only way that .0025 payoff would be possible. You can't do it with fiat sales.
Personally I suspect 80% of this business profits will be mining based. Why do you think otherwise? Because we sell hardware? We haven't sold enough hardware for it to impact on our mining farm. So why all of a sudden do you think Ken is NOT going to build a substantial farm. You can not have both of your scenarios existing at the same time - it's not logical. We cannot have Ken successfully mining in secret and selling hardware for not much money but not also having an ACtM farm. There is no logistical reason that we know of for Ken not to roll out a farm if he has a good chip - so why won't he? edit I need to go to bed VE, I'll catch up tommorow with your posts/replies. |
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thefunkybits
Legendary
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000
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December 04, 2013, 01:01:40 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2013, 10:07:39 AM by thefunkybits |
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For us to have made up for the rise in Bitcoin Price, prices on products would have had to increase 1000%. Obviously that isn't going to happen, as we can see by the 50% rise in product prices. The only way you can make the high bitcoin price work for you is to be a mining based business. There is a lot more money to be made that way, and this is the only way that .0025 payoff would be possible. You can't do it with fiat sales.
Personally I suspect 80% of this business profits will be mining based. Why do you think otherwise? Because we sell hardware? We haven't sold enough hardware for it to impact on our mining farm. So why all of a sudden do you think Ken is NOT going to build a substantial farm. You can not have both of your scenarios existing at the same time - it's not logical. We cannot have Ken successfully mining in secret and selling hardware for not much money but not also having an ACtM farm. There is no logistical reason that we know of for Ken not to roll out a farm if he has a good chip - so why won't he? edit I need to go to bed VE, I'll catch up tommorow with your posts/replies. Very true, the easiest way for to Ken to put the fiat profit to use is to buy mountains of chips at a discount and start mining for us. The sooner we come on to the mining scene with a bang will bring us exponentially more publicity and legitimacy to fuel the business. I wish we had any idea about the mining farm because this is getting frustrating. |
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redbeans2012
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December 04, 2013, 02:14:43 AM |
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Anyone notice the big hashrate spike. If that is ken I will apologize to him and eat my own feces.
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VolanicEruptor
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December 04, 2013, 02:27:21 AM |
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For us to have made up for the rise in Bitcoin Price, prices on products would have had to increase 1000%. Obviously that isn't going to happen, as we can see by the 50% rise in product prices. The only way you can make the high bitcoin price work for you is to be a mining based business. There is a lot more money to be made that way, and this is the only way that .0025 payoff would be possible. You can't do it with fiat sales.
Personally I suspect 80% of this business profits will be mining based. Why do you think otherwise? Because we sell hardware? We haven't sold enough hardware for it to impact on our mining farm. So why all of a sudden do you think Ken is NOT going to build a substantial farm. You can not have both of your scenarios existing at the same time - it's not logical. We cannot have Ken successfully mining in secret and selling hardware for not much money but not also having an ACtM farm. There is no logistical reason that we know of for Ken not to roll out a farm if he has a good chip - so why won't he? edit I need to go to bed VE, I'll catch up tommorow with your posts/replies. If 80% of his profits were going to be mining based, he would have at least hinted at it by now. I find it very hard to believe that someone who raised $1,000,000 from our wallets would have intentions of a mining farm without even mentioning it in an announcement. If it was his agenda he would be so giddy about it he would be EXCITED to tell us. Now keeping that in mind, Ken is also not stupid enough to ignore mining completely when Bitcoin is $1000/coin. The only way I can make both of these assumptions which I have mentioned above is to to secretly mine. They are not exaggerated assumptions by any means... I think the most logical person would conclude that this is likely given the nature of his announcement and refusal to even talk about mining at allI think the best compromise to temporarily settle our fears is to put the avalon refunds directly into our own mining so we at least know for sure we have something that brings in precious Bitcoin without going the fiat-->bitcoin route through sales profits. We should vote on it, I bet most of us would say yes. I can guarantee that Ken won't offer this option, because he knows that production is limited.. so why would he give any of it to us? He's better off to return the refunds to us in a dividend to keep the eASIC queue relieved for himself. |
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coinfresh
Member
Offline
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
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December 04, 2013, 02:51:20 AM |
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Anyone notice the big hashrate spike. If that is ken I will apologize to him and eat my own feces.
got a link? |
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Vigil
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December 04, 2013, 03:07:27 AM |
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Perhaps Ken wants to surprise us all come Christmas time. He doesn't want to let us know what we are getting before we open it.  |
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Vigil
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December 04, 2013, 03:16:11 AM |
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SoylentCreek
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December 04, 2013, 05:03:50 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2013, 05:14:27 AM by SoylentCreek |
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Seriously Ken, you deleted every single one of my posts from today, half of which were defending you and your company? Sorry, but what exactly constitutes having a post deleted? Obviosly it isn't trolling, since that is rampant. Are you mad that I dare to ask questions that many of us are wanting answered? How incredibly childish.
EDIT: Okay, it wasn't all of them, but it was the majority. Word to the wise (or lack thereof): censoring valid criticism is not a way to instill confidence. We're in a post Labcoin market. Radio silence and deleting posts are not going to do this company any favors.
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SoylentCreek
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December 04, 2013, 05:19:47 AM |
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Seriously Ken, you deleted every single one of my posts from today, half of which were defending you and your company? Sorry, but what exactly constitutes having a post deleted? Obviosly it isn't trolling, since that is rampant. Are you mad that I dare to ask questions that many of us are wanting answered? How incredibly childish.
I'd have to agree with you on this one. For the first time in a long time, I controlled my anger and had a productive conversation with StuartUK. He came in and deleted some very ordinary messages. Now I have to resort going back to my old self... I wonder if Ken likes the taste of concrete Maybe he just doesn't like British insults. What a tosser.  Seriously, is it against the rules for us to have a laugh now and again? Jesus... |
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VolanicEruptor
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December 04, 2013, 05:21:52 AM |
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For us to have made up for the rise in Bitcoin Price, prices on products would have had to increase 1000%. Obviously that isn't going to happen, as we can see by the 50% rise in product prices. The only way you can make the high bitcoin price work for you is to be a mining based business. There is a lot more money to be made that way, and this is the only way that .0025 payoff would be possible. You can't do it with fiat sales.
Personally I suspect 80% of this business profits will be mining based. Why do you think otherwise? Because we sell hardware? We haven't sold enough hardware for it to impact on our mining farm. So why all of a sudden do you think Ken is NOT going to build a substantial farm. You can not have both of your scenarios existing at the same time - it's not logical. We cannot have Ken successfully mining in secret and selling hardware for not much money but not also having an ACtM farm. There is no logistical reason that we know of for Ken not to roll out a farm if he has a good chip - so why won't he? edit I need to go to bed VE, I'll catch up tommorow with your posts/replies. If 80% of his profits were going to be mining based, he would have at least hinted at it by now. I find it very hard to believe that someone who raised $1,000,000 from our wallets would have intentions of a mining farm without even mentioning it in an announcement. If it was his agenda he would be so giddy about it he would be EXCITED to tell us. Now keeping that in mind, Ken is also not stupid enough to ignore mining completely when Bitcoin is $1000/coin. The only way I can make both of these assumptions which I have mentioned above is to to secretly mine. They are not exaggerated assumptions by any means... I think the most logical person would conclude that this is likely given the nature of his announcement and refusal to even talk about mining at allI think the best compromise to temporarily settle our fears is to put the avalon refunds directly into our own mining so we at least know for sure we have something that brings in precious Bitcoin without going the fiat-->bitcoin route through sales profits. We should vote on it, I bet most of us would say yes. I can guarantee that Ken won't offer this option, because he knows that production is limited.. so why would he give any of it to us? He's better off to return the refunds to us in a dividend to keep the eASIC queue relieved for himself. |
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knybe
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December 04, 2013, 05:23:42 AM |
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Seriously Ken, you deleted every single one of my posts from today, half of which were defending you and your company? Sorry, but what exactly constitutes having a post deleted? Obviosly it isn't trolling, since that is rampant. Are you mad that I dare to ask questions that many of us are wanting answered? How incredibly childish.
I'd have to agree with you on this one. For the first time in a long time, I controlled my anger and had a productive conversation with StuartUK. He came in and deleted some very ordinary messages. Now I have to resort going back to my old self... I wonder if Ken likes the taste of concrete Maybe he just doesn't like British insults. What a tosser. Seriously, is it against the rules for us to have a laugh now and again? Jesus... I've been censured today as well, I don't think it's Ken because I've check to see if he's online when it happens… who's this SaltySpitoon character? EDIT: oh never mind. |
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LorenzoMoney
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December 04, 2013, 05:27:43 AM |
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This is not a personal attack. This is not an attack at all. This is no way an ad hominem attack.
This is a direct confrontation because I feel that Ken does have certain responsibilities to those who have given him money as an investment in his company.
The real issue is that Ken is vague and not clear when he communicates, some of us have a great deal invested...er.....on loan with Ken and Active Mining, and we see other companies successfully shipping and delivering their miners. We see other companies fail and we see other full out scams. We hope that Ken and ActM are just like Butterfly Labs, in that they will deliver and are just be very slow to ship product. Butterfly Labs did some unethical things, had bad customer service, but they did finally deliver, albeit way too later for any real ROI until the price of BTC shot up.
Ken keeps using NDA as an excuse. Having never been bound by an NDA agreement, I have no idea if it really is as restrictive as Ken makes it out to be. Could he give weekly reports that are not in violation of the agreement, but which share about his progress?
Long ago, I suggested to Ken that he put a PR person in place to help him with more frequent bulletins and to help him write more clearly. He assured me he was thinking of doing that. (Mind you, this was months ago.) Then there was talk and pressure to create a board of directors, which became an advisory board. Ken selected someone else to be PR guy. I admit, I was a little disappointed, and when I addressed this with Ken, he assured me not to worry. That new PR person was a little snotty with me several times, and I admit, that being one of the top ten shareholders, I did and do expect to be treated with a certain deference. Spoke to Ken again and he reassured me not to worry about not being selected for the advisory board. I accepted Ken's reassuring reassurance not to worry, and given that the whole advisory board got frustrated with Ken and resigned, maybe Ken was hinting that not being on the board would mean my friendship with him would be preserved since he and I would not be placed in a situation where I would have to get frustrated with his reticence.
Yup! I miss VBS, and I agree with VE at times, and crumbs is a little creep, but a funny, nasty little creep. And, if only I had sold all my shares of Active Mining when it had shot up to .007, and then, if only I would have had patience to wait to sell when bitcoin went over $1000, I would be happy, smug and retired now. But, the lessons of investing in high risk investments is that one needs brass testicles. Mine are not made of brass. Then BitFunder closes, Ken's promises don't come through, and we have no exchange on which to trade.
This thread is filled with FUD and speculation and more gossip than a barbershop or women's hair salon, or maybe more gossip and nonsense than in a school yard with elementary school girls.
Ken's last public statement was hopeful. It was comparatively well written. Obviously, Ken asked someone else to either proof read for him, or help him compose it. If Active Mining is failing, we all would like to know. If Ken cannot get substantial hash rate and get enough of a farm up and mining, then he should be a man and admit defeat and liquidate assets and distribute it all to all share holders. If Ken has some solid long term plans, then he should have a weekly statement that is as well written as the last longer statement and should ignore responding to dweebs on this thread individually. A weekly statement without individual responses would do a great deal to reduce FUD.
Ken has made public statements that he has initiated a law suit against Ukyo/BF/WEEX regarding 100 BTC that he has been unable to withdraw from Ukyo's exchange. I asked Ukyo about this and Ukyo said that he is unaware of any law suit. Perhaps I misunderstood Ken's public posting. Perhaps I was not clear when I communicate with Ukyo. Either someone is lying, or there is some terrible misunderstanding.
Yes, boys, I have boasted about how many shares of ActM I hold. Here is what I want:
1) Ken will be more communicative and less vague
2) There will be a viable exchange. (It seems that cryptostock may be that exchange. It would be nice if it could be on a distributed, decentralized exchange.)
3) Ken will provide more information regarding dates of when he expects to have shipping of ordered product be in full run.
4) Ken will will provide more information about when mining will be happening on Active Mining manufacture equipment, meaning a date when mining will be happening.
5) Ken will provide a number and bitcoin address of how many terrahash are mining and where the mining proceeds are going. My suggestion is that ActM use the Eligius mining pool.
How will ActM stock increase in value? First of all, it has to be publicly tradeable. It also has to have some real and some emotional value. Ken has promised a certain minimum amount of dividends, so in that effect, we do not own stock, but own bond shares. A bond is a loan.
When ActM finally does mine, dividends will come from mining proceeds, so there will be value do to expectation of future returns. And, after all this, if Ken does succeed with the 5 points above, he will have vision to develop and evolve the company so it will make money from future ventures.
Someone I communicated with who knows Ken from his pre-bitcoin past told me that he thinks Ken is a "genius engineer". Maybe that is true. I do hope it is true. I also hope that Ken discovers that he has an ethical and moral obligation to communicate better with those who have trusted him with their money.
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SoylentCreek
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December 04, 2013, 05:27:58 AM |
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Seriously Ken, you deleted every single one of my posts from today, half of which were defending you and your company? Sorry, but what exactly constitutes having a post deleted? Obviosly it isn't trolling, since that is rampant. Are you mad that I dare to ask questions that many of us are wanting answered? How incredibly childish.
I'd have to agree with you on this one. For the first time in a long time, I controlled my anger and had a productive conversation with StuartUK. He came in and deleted some very ordinary messages. Now I have to resort going back to my old self... I wonder if Ken likes the taste of concrete Maybe he just doesn't like British insults. What a tosser. Seriously, is it against the rules for us to have a laugh now and again? Jesus... I've been censured today as well, I don't think it's Ken because I've check to see if he's online when it happens… who's this SaltySpitoon character? EDIT: oh never mind. SS is a Securities mod if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure its been Ken. Guess we hurt his feelings. :\ |
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LorenzoMoney
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December 04, 2013, 05:30:31 AM |
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Several of my postings have been deleted. The person who deleted them seems to be Maged https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=6347This is in no way a criticism of Maged or his editorial decisions. It is simply a statement of fact of who it seems has edited my postings. Seriously Ken, you deleted every single one of my posts from today, half of which were defending you and your company? Sorry, but what exactly constitutes having a post deleted? Obviosly it isn't trolling, since that is rampant. Are you mad that I dare to ask questions that many of us are wanting answered? How incredibly childish.
I'd have to agree with you on this one. For the first time in a long time, I controlled my anger and had a productive conversation with StuartUK. He came in and deleted some very ordinary messages. Now I have to resort going back to my old self... I wonder if Ken likes the taste of concrete Maybe he just doesn't like British insults. What a tosser. Seriously, is it against the rules for us to have a laugh now and again? Jesus... I've been censured today as well, I don't think it's Ken because I've check to see if he's online when it happens… who's this SaltySpitoon character? EDIT: oh never mind. |
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