[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[knybe]

if trolls were smart they would… IntelliHush™

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[Jasun7211]

One possibility is to reduce voltage for some percent and then power consumption reduces by square of the amount, which means you can have chip at 50% speed but draining only 25% power. That is significant only when network percentage increases so much that the chip can not earn its consumed power. But then reduced speed chip can still work for prolonged period and keep bringing profit because it consume much less power. If they made chips that can work on very low voltages as well as nominal, and possibly have other tricks with turning on and off portions of chip that does not need heavy power it may give significant advantage and increased return of bitcoins that chip would make before its discarded as obsolete. I'm only guessing here tho.

Don't forget the block rewards get halved again in 2017.  Mining is a losing cause in the end, especialy when big corps get involved.  The low fruit has already been gotten in the btc mining world. 

[SebastianJu]

There is simply no way you can upgrade a chip infinitely by software only. Unless you cripple it at first of course.

Yes. And i cant see how a software at all should be able to raise hashrate by 20%. Maybe the previous software was poorly coded? But the chip design had to be changed?
There should be no shortcuts available in hashing. So i only can imagine they made a bad hashingsoftware better. Thats all. And for some reason the chip design had to be changed to work with the new code.

VE is right on this. Whether Intellihash was implemented or not. We could have had nondelayed chips && intellihash. Now we have delayed chips && intellihash. It's not an either or.

No you cant. If you create 2 types of chips you have double NRE-Costs. Mask creation and so on. So that would work only with big losses.
I tend to believe that Ken was able to judge what route would bring in the best return. I mean he for sure knows of the diffi updates all the times. So i think the change in asic design will not mean a very big delay in time. He knows he has to deliver and he cant sacrifice weeks only to gain 20%.

and you're not getting that the chips are delayed.  Most damaging announcement to shareholder confidence ever.

This is surprising to you? I would be surprised when a bitcoin asic venture would run exactly after the timeframe that was planned before.

Let's do some simple math.
 
Ken has recently made it clear he does not intend to mine very much at all, and only intends to make money via hardware sales.  This means we would have to generate 10x as much profit to reach our .0025 target as we did when bitcoin was $120. 

Look.

.0025 x 10,000,000 = 25000 BITCOINS of dividends. 

When BTC was $120, that was $2.7 million dollars...

but now that BTC is $1200, $27.5 million dollars of profits is needed to pay off .0025 dividends.

This is why it BLOWS MY MIND that Ken would be so focused on hardware sales. The only explanation would be that he is definitely interested in mining, but doing it behind closed doors where he does not intend to share the profits with us. Why do you think he didn't mention mining ONCE in his announcement?

What do you mean? Profits are profits. Getting $6000 now in Bitcoins or getting $6000 2 months later in bitcoins can make a big difference in the amount of bitcoins you get. And even when he would sell a miner for only 2 months of mining income... it still would mean you have 2 months worth of mining in a couple of days instead having to wait 2 months for it. That brings completely different opportunities.
So i dont really get your logic behind looking so bad about the selling plans. You calculated the prices and mining income for the VMC-Miner? Depending on the delivery date the buyer takes a not small risk. It can be fast at the point where it never makes the buying price back.
Selling for a good price is definitely much worth on many levels.

[Puppet]

Ken, what a useless update. As if we were waiting for you to tell us what you think BTC exchange rate will do or as if we didnt know difficulty was going to continue exploding.

What we needed were some simple, clear facts, and you gave virtually none. You still leave everyone guessing about the status of the chips. We still have no frigging idea of the timeline. All we got is a buzzword without describing what it is. And a vague statement that implies a delay, without quantifying it and while pretending we should think thats good. Whatever the 20% boost is, its not a gamechanger, its 20%. Difficulty goes up by 20% every 1-2 weeks, so if this caused a delay thats bigger than that, it was a dumb idea.

[Nootnewbie]

Ken,

What's the protocol on Crypto-trade?  Register now?  Register later? 

[knybe]

Inevitably no matter what was said by Ken, half of you will sinkhole into the the pit of hell while the other half will elate into the stratosphere.

In the long run it won't matter because at the end of this big game called life you're going to die.

Yes, you are all going to die anyway.

You all got your November Update now everyone go hug a loved one and get some rest, meditate, go outside and have some Sun or throw a snowball or whatever. but do yourself a favor…

go live some life.

EDIT: for fuck sake.

[Sou]

Ken,

What's the protocol on Crypto-trade?  Register now?  Register later? 

"There is no need to sign up for an account on Crypto-Trade as it will be created for you."

[Jasun7211]

There is simply no way you can upgrade a chip infinitely by software only. Unless you cripple it at first of course.

Yes. And i cant see how a software at all should be able to raise hashrate by 20%. Maybe the previous software was poorly coded? But the chip design had to be changed?
There should be no shortcuts available in hashing. So i only can imagine they made a bad hashingsoftware better. Thats all. And for some reason the chip design had to be changed to work with the new code.

VE is right on this. Whether Intellihash was implemented or not. We could have had nondelayed chips && intellihash. Now we have delayed chips && intellihash. It's not an either or.

No you cant. If you create 2 types of chips you have double NRE-Costs. Mask creation and so on. So that would work only with big losses.
I tend to believe that Ken was able to judge what route would bring in the best return. I mean he for sure knows of the diffi updates all the times. So i think the change in asic design will not mean a very big delay in time. He knows he has to deliver and he cant sacrifice weeks only to gain 20%.

and you're not getting that the chips are delayed.  Most damaging announcement to shareholder confidence ever.

This is surprising to you? I would be surprised when a bitcoin asic venture would run exactly after the timeframe that was planned before.

Let's do some simple math.
 
Ken has recently made it clear he does not intend to mine very much at all, and only intends to make money via hardware sales.  This means we would have to generate 10x as much profit to reach our .0025 target as we did when bitcoin was $120. 

Look.

.0025 x 10,000,000 = 25000 BITCOINS of dividends. 

When BTC was $120, that was $2.7 million dollars...

but now that BTC is $1200, $27.5 million dollars of profits is needed to pay off .0025 dividends.

This is why it BLOWS MY MIND that Ken would be so focused on hardware sales. The only explanation would be that he is definitely interested in mining, but doing it behind closed doors where he does not intend to share the profits with us. Why do you think he didn't mention mining ONCE in his announcement?

What do you mean? Profits are profits. Getting $6000 now in Bitcoins or getting $6000 2 months later in bitcoins can make a big difference in the amount of bitcoins you get. And even when he would sell a miner for only 2 months of mining income... it still would mean you have 2 months worth of mining in a couple of days instead having to wait 2 months for it. That brings completely different opportunities.
So i dont really get your logic behind looking so bad about the selling plans. You calculated the prices and mining income for the VMC-Miner? Depending on the delivery date the buyer takes a not small risk. It can be fast at the point where it never makes the buying price back.
Selling for a good price is definitely much worth on many levels.

If you ever bought a PMB you would understand that mining is not where the real action is. Especially as difficulty goes up and rewards get halved.  Price will have to constantly rise as we know....is that guarenteed .....no.   Even in 1849 the miners wernt the ones who became overwhelming rich.....it was the guys that sold the picks, pans ans shovels.  Bitcoin is no different...ACTM will be selling the tools of hope....lol and with a small farm that may spout a div every now and again.  Anyone with experience in the operation of a PMB knows this.    Its like dating a supermodel....there's a lot of maintenance to keep that lady performing.  

[crumbs]

Ken, what a useless update. As if we were waiting for you to tell us what you think BTC exchange rate will do or as if we didnt know difficulty was going to continue exploding.

What we needed were some simple, clear facts, and you gave virtually none. You still leave everyone guessing about the status of the chips. We still have no frigging idea of the timeline. All we got is a buzzword without describing what it is. And a vague statement that implies a delay, without quantifying it and while pretending we should think thats good. Whatever the 20% boost is, its not a gamechanger, its 20%. Difficulty goes up by 20% every 1-2 weeks, so if this caused a delay thats bigger than that, it was a dumb idea.

FUD.  Another troll trying to crash the price to snap up some cheap shares.  Which aren't trading Oh wai...

[VolanicEruptor]

if you want to make this a completely fiat based business then you might as well take the share price (which was .0015 before BF shut down) and divide it by 10 (.00015).  This is because with bitcoin at $1200 (10x what it was), it now takes 10 times the amount of FIAT to gain the same amount of BTC in dividends.

Unfortunately most of you don't understand this.. it makes me want to start a scam of my own just to take advantage of the retards here..

[VolanicEruptor]

Example 1:

Bitcoin worth $120
10,000,000 shares are priced .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $1.8 million dollars to give us .0015/share

Example 2:

Bitcoin worth $1200
10,000,000 shares priced at .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $18 million dollars to give us .0015/share.  This now makes the share price worth .00015 because you have to earn 10x as much fiat.


The only way to make the insanely high Bitcoin value work for the share price is to turn this into a mining company and bring in some bitcoins with this hardware instead of selling machines.  Obviously Ken won't talk about mining because he wants to take that half of the business for himself

[Jasun7211]

if you want to make this a completely fiat based business then you might as well take the share price (which was .0015 before BF shut down) and divide it by 10 (.00015).  This is because with bitcoin at $1200 (10x what it was), it now takes 10 times the amount of FIAT to gain the same amount of BTC in dividends.

Unfortunately most of you don't understand this.. it makes me want to start a scam of my own just to take advantage of the retards here..

You can't make it a Fiat price...we all bought shares in btc.  The supply of btc is only slightly larger than the last bitfunder price.  Its the conversion that causes a fiasco.....who is going to convert.  Its all about value.     Technically since bitcoin is a deflationary currency it should never be spent, and only used as a savings vehicle.  Thats the problem I even see in the future with creating a revenue stream with btc.  In the end your comparing apples to oranges.  The fiat world lost a little value lastmonth with the world's Fiat masters pressing that CTRL+P button and value has skyrocketed in the bitcoin paradigm with only a few coins created.    Comparing dying and bloating Fiat vs. Gaining value and slight steady supply increase BTC just can't be done and is not fair to mislead people.    Its like when people tell me how much gold and silver they own in $ terms....makes no sense .......If you tell me how many ozs you have now I become impressed.

[VolanicEruptor]

you just dont get it.  how are we going to earn .0025 in dividends if that equates to 10x as much money as before.

Please get me out of this hell hole of idiots

[Tomek]

Is it possible to transfer my ActiveMining shares out of BitFunder somehow?

[thefunkybits]

Aside from the the new exchange, this announcement was pretty bunk.

The majority of us only care about the mining farm and Ken should know that. Hyping up an announcement by saying "it should answer most investors questions" is misleading. You can't just tiptoe around the topic of chips, we want some fucking decent information Ken. As was posted above hardware sales mean shit all. I know all i care about is the mining farm and so do the majority of shareholders.

Im still confident in ACTM but apparently anyone who doesnt think this announcement is amazing is a fudster and a troll though lol get real

[VolanicEruptor]

well guys, Ken invited me to come down to meet him so I'll be heading there this week.  If there's any questions anybody wants to ask him let me know

Hopefully Geralds daughter can give me a tour of what's going on, or whoever is in charge of that

[btct22]

well guys, Ken invited me to come down to meet him so I'll be heading there this week.  If there's any questions anybody wants to ask him let me know

Product pics, chip specs, and mining screenshots please

[Jasun7211]

Example 1:

Bitcoin worth $120
10,000,000 shares are priced .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $1.8 million dollars to give us .0015/share

Example 2:

Bitcoin worth $1200
10,000,000 shares priced at .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $18 million dollars to give us .0015/share.  This now makes the share price worth .00015 because you have to earn 10x as much fiat.


The only way to make the insanely high Bitcoin value work for the share price is to turn this into a mining company and bring in some bitcoins with this hardware instead of selling machines.  Obviously Ken won't talk about mining because he wants to take that half of the business for himself

Go buy a PMB and tell me how that works out.  This is a small company.  We don't need all that overhead....unless Ken has a fusion reactor in his wharehouse for free electricity its a bad idea.  Soon the rent space for wharehouses will be skyrocketing to house all these miners in a fashion similar to when  HFT shops in in north Jersey set up right next to the NASDAQ servers to reduce latency.........oh yeah and wait till the googs, MS, EMC's of the world start in BTC mining.  The latency factor in the Midwest USA where Ken is located is so long at those speeds we would never get the most potential out of the machines.....similiat to shorter HDMI cables.  Thats not today, but those days are comming soon.  

[SebastianJu]

Example 1:

Bitcoin worth $120
10,000,000 shares are priced .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $1.8 million dollars to give us .0015/share

Example 2:

Bitcoin worth $1200
10,000,000 shares priced at .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $18 million dollars to give us .0015/share.  This now makes the share price worth .00015 because you have to earn 10x as much fiat.


The only way to make the insanely high Bitcoin value work for the share price is to turn this into a mining company and bring in some bitcoins with this hardware instead of selling machines.  Obviously Ken won't talk about mining because he wants to take that half of the business for himself

Then what a luck that bitcoin miners still mine bitcoin isnt it? I only see one point where Ken is failing. He is selling the miners way too cheap. Of course i dont know how much time it needs until the miners get delivered but judging from the bitcoin price its way too cheap. And i dont understand why he is doing that. Maybe he knows that the miners will be delivered late?
The $9000 Miner, when it starts mining on january the first will make a profit of $22,000. When it starts on February its $4400 only anymore. So maybe Ken knows more than we know and its still a good price to sell the miners instead self mining.

If you ever bought a PMB you would understand that mining is not where the real action is. Especially as difficulty goes up and rewards get halved.  Price will have to constantly rise as we know....is that guarenteed .....no.   Even in 1849 the miners wernt the ones who became overwhelming rich.....it was the guys that sold the picks, pans ans shovels.  Bitcoin is no different...ACTM will be selling the tools of hope....lol and with a small farm that may spout a div every now and again.  Anyone with experience in the operation of a PMB knows this.    Its like dating a supermodel....there's a lot of maintenance to keep that lady performing.  

Right... even when a miner looks relatively promising... after you checked future diff development, the time when the miner starts actually mining and so on... it might look way more risky already.
And... having the same bitcoins in hand now instead having the same bitcoins in 2 months of mining makes a huge difference for business too. You can reinvest that money to create more miners. You couldnt do this with self mining... So selling has many advantages for a business.

[VolanicEruptor]

Example 1:

Bitcoin worth $120
10,000,000 shares are priced .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $1.8 million dollars to give us .0015/share

Example 2:

Bitcoin worth $1200
10,000,000 shares priced at .0015
this means that Ken would have to PROFIT $18 million dollars to give us .0015/share.  This now makes the share price worth .00015 because you have to earn 10x as much fiat.


The only way to make the insanely high Bitcoin value work for the share price is to turn this into a mining company and bring in some bitcoins with this hardware instead of selling machines.  Obviously Ken won't talk about mining because he wants to take that half of the business for himself

Go buy a PMB and tell me how that works out.  This is a small company.  We don't need all that overhead....unless Ken has a fusion reactor in his wharehouse for free electricity its a bad idea.  Soon the rent space for wharehouses will be skyrocketing to house all these miners in a fashion similar to when  HFT shops in in north Jersey set up right next to the NASDAQ servers to reduce latency.........oh yeah and wait till the googs, MS, EMC's of the world start in BTC mining.  The latency factor in the Midwest USA where Ken is located is so long at those speeds we would never get the most potential out of the machines.....similiat to shorter HDMI cables.  Thats not today, but those days are comming soon.  

You must be really really young because you have no clue as to what I was saying