[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[JoTheKhan]

Guess this is only throwing more wood on the fire, but...

Business Insider: Bitcoin Developer Sells $8 Million Worth Of Hardware In 24 Hours, As Mining Technology Arms Race Goes Insane

You've fueled it. I think I need to step away from this conversation.

But before I forget. Ken when do you expect us to start mining? =D

[1714607426]

1714607426

[Jasun7211]

I think I'd feel safer investing in Crypto-trade itself. 

I get awesome divys from crypto trade, more than ill ever get from any pure mining operation or any PMB.  CEX.io is the best option for that.  Since btcs are limited to 21 million exchanges are the only place for divys.  In the fiat world divys can be created out of thin air since there's an unlimites supply of fiat.  Theoretically if you owned all the exchanges you have the possibility of owning every btc over enough time and transactions.  That is impossible in a fiat world because you need to creat more and more money to pay the interest in the fiat....btc is non interest bearing so that changes the thinking vs. Fiat thinking

[redbeans2012]

I think I'd feel safer investing in Crypto-trade itself. 

I get awesome divys from crypto trade, more than ill ever get from any pure mining operation or any PMB.  CEX.io is the best option for that.  Since btcs are limited to 21 million exchanges are the only place for divys.  In the fiat world divys can be created out of thin air since there's an unlimites supply of fiat.  Theoretically if you owned all the exchanges you have the possibility of owning every btc over enough time and transactions.  That is impossible in a fiat world because you need to creat more and more money to pay the interest in the fiat....btc is non interest bearing so that changes the thinking vs. Fiat thinking

Yeah they have always seemed to have their shit together and they have a nice exchange.  I figure their earnings can only go higher as they list companies.  That can get alot of funds to the site and people can stay to trade cryptos if they so please. Of course you have the risk of the whole exchange freaking out and shutting down though.  Planned on buying in soon but that dam ipo wall wont go away.

[redbeans2012]

Can anyone answer why Ken had over 100 btc's on Ukyo's site?

how do we know it wasn't the btc's he was using to personally buy up his own stock?

He lost it and said it was the companies bitcoins.  Why did he have so many of the "companies" bitcoins on there?

[Jasun7211]

It's not a matter of opinion, simple math shows us that when Bitcoin is low, selling the "picks and shovels" is a better route.
But when Bitcoin is raging high, its time to get on your knees a dig.  I feel like more of you are starting to see this, and I am finally feeling like we're accomplishing something here.

Again usd price doesn't matter in mining.  Btc was created to be self regulating.  So far this has held true.  As the fiat price rises so does the difficulty and overhead.  Right now the arbitrage in the market is the cheap miners vs the fiat price of btc.  That should self regulate but hasent yet....but what will the market bear? If it gets too expensive then only big boys can enter the mining space killing any current farms.  Hft firms and banks will just create fiat out of thin air and snap up all the miners and then you run into the 51% problem potential.  If that happens I'd sell any other minjng operation that second.

[VolanicEruptor]

It's not a matter of opinion, simple math shows us that when Bitcoin is low, selling the "picks and shovels" is a better route.
But when Bitcoin is raging high, its time to get on your knees a dig.  I feel like more of you are starting to see this, and I am finally feeling like we're accomplishing something here.

Again usd price doesn't matter in mining.  

This is the most insane argument I have ever heard in my life.  How old are you?

[JoTheKhan]

I think I'd feel safer investing in Crypto-trade itself.  

I get awesome divys from crypto trade, more than ill ever get from any pure mining operation or any PMB.  CEX.io is the best option for that.  Since btcs are limited to 21 million exchanges are the only place for divys.  In the fiat world divys can be created out of thin air since there's an unlimites supply of fiat.  Theoretically if you owned all the exchanges you have the possibility of owning every btc over enough time and transactions.  That is impossible in a fiat world because you need to creat more and more money to pay the interest in the fiat....btc is non interest bearing so that changes the thinking vs. Fiat thinking

Please stop calling this a PMB or a pure mining operation. This is an investment in a company that produces it's own miners at cost to make and reinvest part of profit's into gaining more mining equipment at cost and creating newer generations of miners. At some point it will be smart to sell these machines, that is not now. If we have buyers, then sell them but you are kidding yourself if you don't think we will make more money mining with them. Each machine we sell (last time I checked was $155k) If its $2/ghs then thats $100K profit (minus a bunch of random stuff) per machine. Each machine can meet ROI in less than two weeks if we mine with it though. Now I'm not a very knowledgable when it comes to mining but it looks like each machine can mine about 16-20 times what it would cost us to make it at $2/ghs instead of making 200% profit, how about 1567% profit?

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/4290d9d40c

EDIT: My bad guys, I forgot. Ken when do you expect us to start mining with our own chips again? I seem to not be able to find any information on that.

[kingcrimson]

No mining farm, no exchange, indefinite delay, and magic product that defies the laws of physics.

Now I'm where VE/DTS were last month. Gave it until the Nov announcement, but this is pretty much game over.

[Jasun7211]

I think I'd feel safer investing in Crypto-trade itself. 

I get awesome divys from crypto trade, more than ill ever get from any pure mining operation or any PMB.  CEX.io is the best option for that.  Since btcs are limited to 21 million exchanges are the only place for divys.  In the fiat world divys can be created out of thin air since there's an unlimites supply of fiat.  Theoretically if you owned all the exchanges you have the possibility of owning every btc over enough time and transactions.  That is impossible in a fiat world because you need to creat more and more money to pay the interest in the fiat....btc is non interest bearing so that changes the thinking vs. Fiat thinking

Please stop calling this a PMB or a pure mining operation. This is an investment in a company that produces it's own miners at cost to make and reinvest part of profit's into gaining more mining equipment at cost and creating newer generations of miners. At some point it will be smart to sell these machines, that is not now. If we have buyers, then sell them but you are kidding yourself if you don't think we will make more money mining with them. Each machine we sell (last time I checked was $155k) If its $2/ghs then thats $100K profit (minus a bunch of random stuff) per machine. Each machine can meet ROI in less than two weeks if we mine with it though. Now I'm not a very knowledgable when it comes to mining but it looks like each machine can mine about 16-20 times what it would cost us to make it at $2/ghs instead of making 200% profit, how about 1567% profit?

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/4290d9d40c

I just say that because there's such an emphasis on mining here.  I bought this company because its emphasis wasn't mining. As a matter of fact I saw mining becoming so involved one of my favorite funds I own is depriveds selling fund.  Basically it shorts mining and pays huge divys based on diffuculty increases.  We all knkw where that's going...deprived is I. The same boat as Ken with the shares, I have always had a lot of faith in deprived and tat, Ken is following suit.  

[shaofis]

Can anyone answer why Ken had over 100 btc's on Ukyo's site?

how do we know it wasn't the btc's he was using to personally buy up his own stock?

He lost it and said it was the companies bitcoins.  Why did he have so many of the "companies" bitcoins on there?

Good question... since Ken won't answer anything... all you can do is guess... but in the last update he mentioned specifically that part of the Liquid assets included public shares that we can assume were purchased... so perhaps the btc was in bitfunder to buy up shares. Why he'd be buying shares is anyone's guess.

Ukyo was on IRC a while ago and indicated that Ken will get his btc back... I think it was more along the lines of he will be surprised if he's written it off. From what I've seen (which is limited) Ukyo appears to be working on things... I think he wants to make everything as right as he can.

[drawingthesun]

Guess this is only throwing more wood on the fire, but...

Business Insider: Bitcoin Developer Sells $8 Million Worth Of Hardware In 24 Hours, As Mining Technology Arms Race Goes Insane

EDIT:
from a PR standpoint; I'll bet if we had Ken's fat smiling face holding one of the boards in BI, we'd be selling that much as well too… no?

Game over.

I am not sure who failed, Ken or eASIC.

eASIC was meant to be about "fast turnaround" but so far we have no/very few chips. I'm wondering if the shareholders have the right to lawsuit against ActiveMining to release the NDA and discover what entity ruined our lives and investment, after we know we might be able to act against that entity. A lawsuit against Ken would be pointless because ActiveMining seems to be nothing but hot air at this point, but eASIC have cash and if we can prove it was their fault for destroying our investment we might have a case.

I am keeping the above in strikeout because I doubt it was eASIC that failed us.

This is now what I think happened: eASIC was creating our chips on time and then Ken run the numbers and discovered that they would never ROI, so he told them to stop and must have re-arranged for a new design. I am thinking Ken paid for the re-design with the Avalon refund and that is why no financial report has been released that details our Bitcoin holdings.

So no lawsuit would ever give us back our investment because it was never eASIC being late, but rather ActiveMining messing up.

I need ActiveMining to be worth at least 40,000 Bitcoin before I ever get my investment back, and If I am right Ken no longer has any Bitcoins on hold.

Ken can prove me wrong via proving an address holding over a thousand Bitcoin belongs to us.

[funkymunky]

I actually wish we didn't receive the November announcement.
It has caused more issues and stress than if it hadn't been posted.

I would love for Ken to come on now with a simple, easy to understand explanation as to what is happening.
Not an attempted marketing statement that needs interpreting and analysing.

If we're now concentrating on a more hardware sales business, which i hope we're not. Then where is the advertising, marketing and PR?
We've been left behind by other companies who are selling their goods.

I really had high hopes that we were going to be one of the best and most up to date mining operations in the Bitcoin landscape.


Ken please prove me wrong....

[drawingthesun]

One more thing to think about; If Ken really cared about sales he would give us all information on our progress. If the shareholders are happy and know what is going on, it's more likely customers would see the certainty in the operation and be more inclined to buy miners from us.

Ken's quietness actually spreads uncertainty and thus our potential customers will see this and decide that we are the worst possible company to buy from.

Ken, you are harming this company by withholding information.

We have already missed the November deadlines and now customers are being told to wait for 2 or more months before getting a miner. I am sorry, but if a customer is willing to wait for 2 months they are going to buy from KNC.

[Galactic]

Here is my Intellihash theory,
we all know how cpu manufacturers do, they design multicore cpu and each is produced with maximum number of cores,
however micro-geometric impurities may make weak spots on many places making just one or few out of billions of transistors unusable,
then the whole core which contains impurities is disabled and rest of chip can work on high frequency,
if same analogy is here, lets say some chip have 100 parallel processing pipelines and it works fine on its nominal frequency,
lets assume that particular chip have 1 out of 100 pipelines that contain impurity as limiting factor,
if software recognize failing pipeline and disable it then maybe remaining 99 pipelines can run on 30% faster clock,
or some particular pipeline may work fast but draining more than usual power and spreading heat to rest of chip.
So this intelligent algorithm will find most optimal configuration to squeeze highest speed or lowest power drain for each chip by disabling and scaling freq.
User may have ability to choose configuration with click of a button saying "give me max hashrate" (early use and high power)
and then other button "give me lowest power configuration" (late profitability use) and with click of button chips reconfigure by software.
That can be a whole envelope of speed versus power, different for every chip.
It could be a win to have lots "overclocking champion" chips by this method, and a very attractive buy or a profitable farm,
we know how users like to buy unlocked cpus or gpus and squeeze max from it.
In this business everyone is overclocker.
Also another possibility is, there could be multiple ways to do the same hashing,
one algorithm could theoretically drain less power over the other algorithm and still finish the same job on that chip architecture or individual sample.
If it drain less power then that chip could work on higher speed as well.

I see that some people are concerned with selling miners "too cheap" and having low profit, however there is the simple trick to this, if ken just delay their shipment and use first chips to actm farm.
This means miners would not be sold too cheap compared to network hash rate.
It just should not delay too much to upset the customers.

[ryan1894]

^

lol

[coinfresh]

I would love for Ken to come on now with a simple, easy to understand explanation as to what is happening.
Not an attempted marketing statement that need interpreting and analysing.

[crumbs]

Here is my Intellihash theory,
...lets assume that particular chip have 1 out of 100 pipelines that contain impurity as limiting factor,
if software recognize failing pipeline and disable it then maybe remaining 99 pipelines can run on 30% faster clock,
or some particular pipeline may work fast but draining more than usual power and spreading heat to rest of chip.
So this intelligent algorithm will find most optimal configuration to squeeze highest speed or lowest power drain for each chip by disabling and scaling freq. ... [+nonsense]

This is already being done, nothing new here.  This also doesn't begin to explain why the hashrate would increase as difficulty grows.

I see that some people are concerned with selling miners "too cheap" and having low profit, however there is the simple trick to this, if ken just delay their shipment and use first chips to actm farm.
This means miners would not be sold too cheap compared to network hash rate.
It just should not delay too much to upset the customers.

This also has a name already.  It's called "fraud."
The problem with your fraud is it fails Occam's razor.  There are much simpler & more elegant ways to commit fraud.  It also requires having chips that hash -- the missing ingredient in all of your scenarios.

[JoTheKhan]

Ken good morning, when do you expect us to start mining. Just give us a date.

Thank you.

[drawingthesun]

This is a PM I sent Ken. I wonder what his reply will be, anyone care to guess?

- Intellihash, you made this sound like something it cannot be. I believe this is a stalling tactic.
- I am guessing you used the 1000+ Avalon refunded Bitcoins to buy a new design from eASIC. Can you deny or confirm?
- I am very certain you have not shipped an eASIC miner. Customers in another thread are now complaining that you are telling them to wait another 2-3 months before they get their miners. Meanwhile KNC just made $8,000,000 in 24 hours and have already shipped past ASIC miners of their own design.
- You say my PM's are slowing you down, I don't think you can be doing too much if our next batch of eASIC chips will be delivered in another several months. It sounds like you know have a lot of free time on your hands.
- Many concerned investors in the forum have asked genuine questions, why are you ignoring the only people that believe in you and only replying to the trolls?
- Even if you ignore me, please give them an answer, they really believed in you Ken and now even they are losing faith.
- What the fuck happened with eASIC batch number 1? Why stop an entire batch to work on something new?
- I am at a loss as to how on Earth the eASIC contract did not deliver chips. I just have no idea except that perhaps you told them to stop and purchased another design for a million dollars using Avalon refund.
- Also cryptotrade does not allow for timepad 2 factor authentication and has no volume. I am really interested why CT is the solution for us and not Havelock, they even said in an email to me they would try to reach out to you. This implies they would be fine running your security.
- Can you confirm or deny that the extra 1TH/s+ of mining power is from a source not eASIC (Avalon, cex.io, etc......)

To be frank Ken I feel that something went wrong and the operation is crashing, when people were spending millions on our miners you were very confident you could deliver at the end of November. That meant we were meant to be receiving well over 100TH/s worth of chips. But what do we have? 2TH/s.

Now customers are being told to wait for 3 months.

Sorry Ken but what the hell is going on?

I am probably going to sell all my shares once we trade at a 10x loss, because I no longer have any reason to believe in this company. So much secrecy for what? Our competitors are already a million times better than us, you are only hurting our reputation and thus our sales.

[VolanicEruptor]

Ken good morning, when do you expect us to start mining. Just give us a date.

Thank you.

He has not answered a single question in this thread since IPO times, so i suggest phoning him with your question