[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[minerpart]

as bargraphics and I both knew from a few months ago (because we were both invested then) the klondike order was different than the 20k chip order that was refunded.

You seem to be getting confused. I asked where the chips for the Klondikes came from didn't I? Simple question.

I also mentioned the Avalon chip refund in the same post. So no, I didn't think the chip refund also cancelled the Klondike order or had anything to do with it. You are really confused.

[minerpart]

Guess I'm retarded but saying this is a scam and them implying that you will sue eASIC implies you think eASIC is a scam too. I'm done posting in this thread. Later!

You are 100% correct. He said it was a scam then said 'I didn't say it was a scam'.

Pretty pathetic that he can't own up to it. It's an easy mistake to make when you are ranting like a lunatic.

[Vigil]

Is it possible that the refund from the initial Avalon chips is actually more than the cost of the recent Klondike purchase and therefore money from that refund could still be going to PCIe development?

[kleeck]

Is it possible that the refund from the initial Avalon chips is actually more than the cost of the recent Klondike purchase and therefore money from that refund could still be going to PCIe development?

That sounds like a possibility.

[Vigil]

Is it possible that the refund from the initial Avalon chips is actually more than the cost of the recent Klondike purchase and therefore money from that refund could still be going to PCIe development?

That sounds like a possibility.

Or that PCIe development funding has been accounted for and Ken wanted to utilize the remaining idle funds to add what hashing power he could...

[minerpart]

Is it possible that the refund from the initial Avalon chips is actually more than the cost of the recent Klondike purchase and therefore money from that refund could still be going to PCIe development?

Ken offered the money he got back from the refund to shareholders as a one-off div payment. Board member (at that time) ffsixty came onto the thread to ask what we wanted. Most voted to have the money put back into development. So the refund money wasn't used for the Klondikes, it's all gone into the 'eASIC pot' so to speak.

[zumzero]

25th October 2013 is today's date.

Within the next six days Ken will release the much anticipated quarterly accounts.  

Ken might also reveal the status of the first chip batch order, as from the P&L and Balance sheet, we should be able to know if there was enough money raised to pay eASIC.  One would expect that part of the NDA restriction may be lifted once the money has been transferred, so this would indeed be a good time for Ken to update his shareholders, if we are in pre-production.

Conversely, consider that this money has been paid already and the chip run has started in earnest. If that's the case then I'd expect Ken to continue to withhold information while advancing the production schedule behind closed doors.  This is certainly a strategy that Ken has hinted at recently.

P.S.  Thanks for the spell check idea finfloss. My browser now has the squiggly lines popping up although it's set to US spelling, eek!

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

[Stuartuk]

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

HA HA HA HA HA Bloody Yanks.

[finlof]

as bargraphics and I both knew from a few months ago (because we were both invested then) the klondike order was different than the 20k chip order that was refunded.

You seem to be getting confused. I asked where the chips for the Klondikes came from didn't I? Simple question.

I also mentioned the Avalon chip refund in the same post. So no, I didn't think the chip refund also cancelled the Klondike order or had anything to do with it. You are really confused.

you said (paraphrasing - see exact quote below) if we had our chips refunded, what chips will be going into the klondikes?

So we got a refund on our Avalon chips didn't we? So what chips will we be putting onto these boards? Either we have some Avalon chips or something else?

had you researched the company you invested in, you would know that the klondike order was including chips.  i am still AMAZED that you are invested in a company that you (apparently) haven't even read the 1st page of postings about.  and not even just invested, but cheering for it like you had basically help start and build the company and it was the best company in the world.  this isnt your alma mater, you dont have a 4 year degree from it.

disclaimer:

believe me when i say that i hope all this works out for anyone who has $ invested.  i dont want people to lose money, whether i like them or not.  but if you lose because you put a bunch of money into something that you dont really know about, i'm not going to feel sorry for you when you complain that things didnt happen according to original plan or didnt go how you wanted.

[minerpart]

Why are you still going on about this? Are you upset or something? You are making the same point over and over.

My question was simple, if I knew where they Klondike chips were coming from I wouldn't have asked where they were coming from.

Now forgive me but from the quote Bargraphics used Ken was having to explain the Klondike situation as recently as 2nd of this month (October) so it's obviously been an area of uncertainty. You didn't know and I didn't know. The difference is you are still on your high-horse about it. Grow up FFS.

[minerpart]

25th October 2013 is today's date.

Within the next six days Ken will release the much anticipated quarterly accounts.  

Ken might also reveal the status of the first chip batch order, as from the P&L and Balance sheet, we should be able to know if there was enough money raised to pay eASIC.  One would expect that part of the NDA restriction may be lifted once the money has been transferred, so this would indeed be a good time for Ken to update his shareholders, if we are in pre-production.

Conversely, consider that this money has been paid already and the chip run has started in earnest. If that's the case then I'd expect Ken to continue to withhold information while advancing the production schedule behind closed doors.  This is certainly a strategy that Ken has hinted at recently.

P.S.  Thanks for the spell check idea finfloss. My browser now has the squiggly lines popping up although it's set to US spelling, eek!

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

At last some serious discussion. What is going on today?

The quarterly accounts will show how much we can take from the web orders and pump into further industrial miner production - obviously after making the retail units and shipping them on time. However once we start shipping, orders will flood in, it will be like turning on a tap and there is nothing preventing us from shipping just development time now.

I was under the impression eASIC were paid in full for development. Anyone else agree? Then we just make orders with eASIC for batches and pay for them when we have funds available?

[zumzero]

25th October 2013 is today's date.

Within the next six days Ken will release the much anticipated quarterly accounts.  

Ken might also reveal the status of the first chip batch order, as from the P&L and Balance sheet, we should be able to know if there was enough money raised to pay eASIC.  One would expect that part of the NDA restriction may be lifted once the money has been transferred, so this would indeed be a good time for Ken to update his shareholders, if we are in pre-production.

Conversely, consider that this money has been paid already and the chip run has started in earnest. If that's the case then I'd expect Ken to continue to withhold information while advancing the production schedule behind closed doors.  This is certainly a strategy that Ken has hinted at recently.

P.S.  Thanks for the spell check idea finfloss. My browser now has the squiggly lines popping up although it's set to US spelling, eek!

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

At last some serious discussion. What is going on today?

The quarterly accounts will show how much we can take from the web orders and pump into further industrial miner production - obviously after making the retail units and shipping them on time. However once we start shipping, orders will flood in, it will be like turning on a tap and there is nothing preventing us from shipping just development time now.

I was under the impression eASIC were paid in full for development. Anyone else agree? Then we just make orders with eASIC for batches and pay for them when we have funds available?

Yes, you are correct.  The $1,000,000 NRE we paid includes eveything apart from the production of the chips themselves.

So if we need another $1,000,000 for the first batch and have only raised $800,000 in sales, then we are in big trouble.

I would love someone to take an education guess of a price for X number of chips as I just plucked the above numbers out of thin air.

Let's try and get a decent discussion going guys.

Any takers?

[Stuartuk]

A bit of discussion about this the other day, you might have missed it. We wont need anywhere near another 1Mill.

It looks like 100k USD would get us around 15k chips.

But in the Bitcoin world eASIC is perfect because we only need a short lifespan of the Chips to pay for the NRE + more even if they are inefficient.

Either way even if the Wafers are a tad more expensive than I'm led to believe, wafer costs are the lowest cost of this whole ordeal.

$15,000 Wafer (for example purposes)
2,500 Chips
16GH Chip
$0.375/GH


Edit: Either way none of this even matters because we have zero information and likely will continue to have zero information until there is a physical device ready.
I don't understand this way of business but at this point there's not much else we can do besides waiting for that day to come (or not)

In the ASIC industry there's also no standard pricing, everyone gets different deals for this and that so it's really hard to come up with what should cost what anyways.

[Bargraphics]

25th October 2013 is today's date.

Within the next six days Ken will release the much anticipated quarterly accounts.  

Ken might also reveal the status of the first chip batch order, as from the P&L and Balance sheet, we should be able to know if there was enough money raised to pay eASIC.  One would expect that part of the NDA restriction may be lifted once the money has been transferred, so this would indeed be a good time for Ken to update his shareholders, if we are in pre-production.

Conversely, consider that this money has been paid already and the chip run has started in earnest. If that's the case then I'd expect Ken to continue to withhold information while advancing the production schedule behind closed doors.  This is certainly a strategy that Ken has hinted at recently.

P.S.  Thanks for the spell check idea finfloss. My browser now has the squiggly lines popping up although it's set to US spelling, eek!

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

At last some serious discussion. What is going on today?

The quarterly accounts will show how much we can take from the web orders and pump into further industrial miner production - obviously after making the retail units and shipping them on time. However once we start shipping, orders will flood in, it will be like turning on a tap and there is nothing preventing us from shipping just development time now.

I was under the impression eASIC were paid in full for development. Anyone else agree? Then we just make orders with eASIC for batches and pay for them when we have funds available?

Yes, you are correct.  The $1,000,000 NRE we paid includes eveything apart from the production of the chips themselves.

So if we need another $1,000,000 for the first batch and have only raised $800,000 in sales, then we are in big trouble.

I would love someone to take an education guess of a price for X number of chips as I just plucked the above numbers out of thin air.

Let's try and get a decent discussion going guys.

Any takers?

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding what you are trying to say here.

The NRE for eASIC is the backend design of the chips and PROBABLY a small batch run.

The cost for the Chips Themselves (Wafers) is probably around $10k-$15k per Wafer with a minimum of 10 or 25 wafers ($100,000 - $300,000)

You don't pay $1,000,000 every time you want more chips..... you just pay for the wafer cost (There is usually a minimum amount of wafers that can be ordered)

The more Wafers you order the cheaper the PER WAFER price is.

If Ken gets the Small Batch Run in, they work, he will likely order as many Wafers as his pocketbook allows to get better pricing and have the chips ready.

[Stuartuk]

Since Vbs is no longer around you've been a handy asset Bargraphics.

And we can sell excess chips right?

[zumzero]

25th October 2013 is today's date.

Within the next six days Ken will release the much anticipated quarterly accounts.  

Ken might also reveal the status of the first chip batch order, as from the P&L and Balance sheet, we should be able to know if there was enough money raised to pay eASIC.  One would expect that part of the NDA restriction may be lifted once the money has been transferred, so this would indeed be a good time for Ken to update his shareholders, if we are in pre-production.

Conversely, consider that this money has been paid already and the chip run has started in earnest. If that's the case then I'd expect Ken to continue to withhold information while advancing the production schedule behind closed doors.  This is certainly a strategy that Ken has hinted at recently.

P.S.  Thanks for the spell check idea finfloss. My browser now has the squiggly lines popping up although it's set to US spelling, eek!

I'm off to get me a donut, cowboy.

At last some serious discussion. What is going on today?

The quarterly accounts will show how much we can take from the web orders and pump into further industrial miner production - obviously after making the retail units and shipping them on time. However once we start shipping, orders will flood in, it will be like turning on a tap and there is nothing preventing us from shipping just development time now.

I was under the impression eASIC were paid in full for development. Anyone else agree? Then we just make orders with eASIC for batches and pay for them when we have funds available?

Yes, you are correct.  The $1,000,000 NRE we paid includes eveything apart from the production of the chips themselves.

So if we need another $1,000,000 for the first batch and have only raised $800,000 in sales, then we are in big trouble.

I would love someone to take an education guess of a price for X number of chips as I just plucked the above numbers out of thin air.

Let's try and get a decent discussion going guys.

Any takers?

I'm sorry but I'm not understanding what you are trying to say here.

The NRE for eASIC is the backend design of the chips and PROBABLY a small batch run.

The cost for the Chips Themselves (Wafers) is probably around $10k-$15k per Wafer with a minimum of 10 or 25 wafers ($100,000 - $300,000)

You don't pay $1,000,000 every time you want more chips..... you just pay for the wafer cost (There is usually a minimum amount of wafers that can be ordered)

The more Wafers you order the cheaper the PER WAFER price is.

If Ken gets the Small Batch Run in, they work, he will likely order as many Wafers as his pocketbook allows to get better pricing and have the chips ready.

Thanks for correcting and informing me.  

As you can see I am trying to encourage a speculative discussion away from the usual noise on this thread, and if we learn anything along the way, it is very welcome.  

[Bargraphics]

Since Vbs is no longer around you've been a handy asset Bargraphics.

And we can sell excess chips right?

Why would you want to,

The machines are not branded for customers.

Any excess we would mine with and then as orders pop up we could just take it off the mine and ship it.

Ken may not want to do this for bookkeeping purposes since he's technically "Selling" the machines to VMC from AMC but this makes the most sense as more money will be made from mining with them (Generating Income instead of the machines just sitting there) and then selling the units (Money in Hand Now to buy more chips in the next batch)

[Stuartuk]

True but you might need to sell the units as 'nearly new' if we had used them?

I know many suspect BFL for doing this with machines that were ready to ship. I guess if you do go this route and make it clear the machines have been 'run in' and give a guarantee AND no one is waiting for these units it's OK.

[Bargraphics]

True but you might need to sell the units as 'nearly new' if we had used them?

I know many suspect BFL for doing this with machines that were ready to ship. I guess if you do go this route and make it clear the machines have been 'run in' and give a guarantee AND no one is waiting for these units it's OK.

What do you think a burn in is?

The units have to be tested working.

I doubt anyone cares if their machine was used for mining prior as long as it works as described and is sent by the date promised when they ordered.
This is only an issue that trolls try to pick apart because of some morally binding obligation they believe companies should have.

Having a product that isn't a pre-order but ready now would be a key selling point for ActM. But I'm fairly confident that ActM will sell out of the unit allocated to sell to the public very quickly once they have a working prototype so this discussion is probably not even valid.

[auto2nr1]

Since Vbs is no longer around you've been a handy asset Bargraphics.

And we can sell excess chips right?

Where did VBS go? MIA?