[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[Stuartuk]

A burn in in this scenario would be a bench test for 30mins. A 'burn in' in your scenario would be several weeks of online hashing. You can't do that legally and then sell the item as new.

[Stuartuk]

But I'm fairly confident that ActM will sell out of the unit allocated to sell to the public very quickly once they have a working prototype so this discussion is probably not even valid.

Surely the discussion is valid if you are only fairly certain of your prediction?

[zumzero]

Who also thinks, as I have hinted at, and Bargraphics said recently, 'we shareholders won't know anything until there is a physical device ready'?

If indeed Ken's strategy is to keep schtum, what advantage's might this bring, or otherwise?

Anyone have any ideas about the next gen. asics in terms of moving to a smaller manufacturing process?  If there was potential for this in the future, would this rule out eASIC?

Anyone have the energy to speculate on the likely scenario which would see the leveling off or even retracting of 'difficulty'?

[Bargraphics]

Once you two have put your handbags down and kissed and made up, could we get this thread back on topic please?

Who also thinks, as I have hinted at, and Bargraphics said recently, 'we shareholders won't know anything until there is a physical device ready'?

If indeed Ken's strategy is to keep schtum, what advantage's might this bring, or otherwise?

Anyone have any ideas about the next gen. asics in terms of moving to a smaller manufacturing process?  If there was potential for this in the future, would this rule out eASIC?

Anyone have the energy to speculate on the likely scenario which would see the leveling off or even retracting of 'difficulty'?

Unless the price of BTC goes MUCH higher than it is today, the NRE for a smaller node in 2014 wouldn't be worth it.

28nm is the end all be all currently until you start seeing ASICs sell off the shelf for $0.35/GH

At that point it still will be unlikely that the jump from 28nm to 14nm (This is assuming 14nm is even fully ready by then for anyone besides very large companies to use) would only bring margins of extra hashrate. The market so saturated at that point that to recoup their NRE on this would take many many batches. Some companies may want to take this risk but it doesn't seem liable currently.

eASIC wasn't the first company to offer 28nm (They are actually kind of late in the game considering) So I doubt they will have the next node available before anyone else does it if it was indeed worth doing.



As far as burn ins are concerned, Crumbs is correct. There's no law that states how long one is, hell there's no way you would even know if it was Used or Not.
From what I'm hearing, some of you would prefer to receive it off the assembly line without any testing at all hah. (Plug and Pray)

Either way, like I said before as long as the company delivers as promised on the dates as promised for the money as paid the receiver will have no issues if the units was previous hashing before, as long as it has the same warranties.

"New" is made up from the manufacturer, guess who that is.

[zumzero]

Who also thinks, as I have hinted at, and Bargraphics said recently, 'we shareholders won't know anything until there is a physical device ready'?

If indeed Ken's strategy is to keep schtum, what advantage's might this bring, or otherwise?

Anyone have any ideas about the next gen. asics in terms of moving to a smaller manufacturing process?  If there was potential for this in the future, would this rule out eASIC?

Anyone have the energy to speculate on the likely scenario which would see the leveling off or even retracting of 'difficulty'?

Unless the price of BTC goes MUCH higher than it is today, the NRE for a smaller node in 2014 wouldn't be worth it.

28nm is the end all be all currently until you start seeing ASICs sell off the shelf for $0.35/GH

At that point it still will be unlikely that the jump from 28nm to 14nm (This is assuming 14nm is even fully ready by then for anyone besides very large companies to use) would only bring margins of extra hashrate. The market so saturated at that point that to recoup their NRE on this would take many many batches. Some companies may want to take this risk but it doesn't seem liable currently.

eASIC wasn't the first company to offer 28nm (They are actually kind of late in the game considering) So I doubt they will have the next node available before anyone else does it if it was indeed worth doing.



As far as burn ins are concerned, Crumbs is correct. There's no law that states how long one is, hell there's no way you would even know if it was Used or Not.
From what I'm hearing, some of you would prefer to receive it off the assembly line without any testing at all hah. (Plug and Pray)

Either way, like I said before as long as the company delivers as promised on the dates as promised for the money as paid the receiver will have no issues if the units was previous hashing before, as long as it has the same warranties.

"New" is made up from the manufacturer, guess who that is.

BFL started shipping my 60gh single two days ago and if they've been 'burning it in' since March then there should be a bloody law against it.  When I placed the order they told me it would take three months to deliver and I'd calculated 3btc per day.  If it arrived yesterday I would mine 0.11 btc per day (ironically the same as I was getting from two 7970's earlier in the year, lol).

[SebastianJu]

If Ken succeeds at a) delivering a reasonable product to market which sells well, b) develops an exchange with some depth that allows for trading c) puts aside a few machines for ActM to mine d) continues to pay out dividends and increases the dividends accordingly, I will hunt Ken down and buy him the best steak which can be bought in a Missouri steak house and will thank him personally. And that is not a threat, that is a promise. Also, I will buy a steak for myself and will join him in dinner.

Good idea. I'll join you guys. Let's make sure this all works out.

Yes, lets do that.

Edit:  I am doing everything in my power to make this work out.

I think its pretty normal that Asic-Projects have delays. But i dont understand why you dont communicate anything regarding the project. I mean do you have to pay a fine when you say something? I mean you understand why people are emotional when appointments arent met and the issuer isnt communicating about that? Too many bad things happened with this behaviour.

first the logo ，now you are talking steak!! holy crap.

? Did you mean me or ken?

[Stuartuk]

I'm sorry sumzero but according to one of the Trolls you will be under US law and the other Troll says your local laws apply? Who's right?!

Lets put it this way. In your good old UK you have the Sale of Goods Act which states your goods must be 'as described'. So if your miner has been run for three weeks or three months being used for its intended purpose then it is clearly not new. You will be able to ask for a replacement, a refund, or compensation. Well if BFL was an EU company or used an EU supplier you would.

But you see in the USA, sorry, the good old US of A money is king. Well big money is king and these rights might not exist? Who knows. Maybe a Troll can stop bickering for a second and help you out here. lol

[minerpart]

friggin lol sumzero, I can see him running for his tights draw right now. unbelievable.

[Stuartuk]

No chance this is epic. Great stuff.

[Stuartuk]

Ok, this might be a bit off topic but knc are having some major issues with their hardware. Have a look at their own website support forum.

If these facts can get out people can be warned they are likely to face issues. We might then pick up some more orders.

[somestranger]

Ok, this might be a bit off topic but knc are having some major issues with their hardware. Have a look at their own website support forum.

If these facts can get out people can be warned they are likely to face issues. We might then pick up some more orders.

The other competition like Cointerra, Hashfast, etc. could also have hardware problems and delays. I really hope we are on schedule since that would be a huge selling point.

[Bargraphics]

Ok, this might be a bit off topic but knc are having some major issues with their hardware. Have a look at their own website support forum.

If these facts can get out people can be warned they are likely to face issues. We might then pick up some more orders.

LOL

KnC isn't having major issues, I have 11 Jupiters running flawlessly.

They shipped out over 3,000 Boxes and there's only a handful of people having issues, however they are extremely vocal I'll give them that!

At any rate you are partially correct as our actual competition for November Orders (HashFast) has been delayed to Mid November and possibly more. This is our chance to be 2nd, but based on zero information from Ken I don't expect this to be the case sadly.

[minerpart]

I'm looking at their thread now, I can see 9 serious problem (no hashing) threads started in the last two days, there could be more but not sure from my phone.

Just found the next page button. Another 17 threads started in the last 48hours reporting big problems. I suggest you take a look Bargraphics rather than laugh it off.

[Bargraphics]

I'm looking at their thread now, I can see 9 serious problem (no hashing) threads started in the last two days, there could be more but not sure from my phone.

Just found the next page button. Another 17 threads started in the last 48hours reporting big problems. I suggest you take a look Bargraphics rather than laugh it off.

You guys are too wrapped up in your play world to see the big picture, they released >1.5PH into the wild. It doesn't matter if the mining newbies have issues because they don't know how to access the web panel, install new firmware, plug in loose cables, or otherwise trivial tasks.

I suggest you learn a little bit from this experience, it's better to ship buggy product than delay a month or two while you work the kinks out.

I'll enjoy watching the hashrate from my jupiters. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1FscNBYzd5CqDzUVQ9YapLQNtLbswkM4NL

[minerpart]

Have to say Bargraphics is right again. Its great for a companies reputation to ship pieces of crap that hash like a turd straight out of the box. That won't effect order numbers at all.

I mean its not like anyone will order product based on reputation. I've got an idea, why don't we just send out empty boxes, we can just blame noobs for not being able to hash with the contents.

[kleeck]

I'm looking at their thread now, I can see 9 serious problem (no hashing) threads started in the last two days, there could be more but not sure from my phone.

Just found the next page button. Another 17 threads started in the last 48hours reporting big problems. I suggest you take a look Bargraphics rather than laugh it off.

You guys are too wrapped up in your play world to see the big picture, they released >1.5PH into the wild. It doesn't matter if the mining newbies have issues because they don't know how to access the web panel, install new firmware, plug in loose cables, or otherwise trivial tasks.

I suggest you learn a little bit from this experience, it's better to ship buggy product than delay a month or two while you work the kinks out.

I'll enjoy watching the hashrate from my jupiters. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1FscNBYzd5CqDzUVQ9YapLQNtLbswkM4NL

Yes. Let's not be delusional. Where do you think the +40% difficulty increases are coming from? Our best bet for slowing the TNH% is for companies to outright fail. Meaning: "Sorry guys, we can't afford our chips after all." CoinTerra recently delayed their tapeout, that's the next best thing. HashFast is a joke. Not only are their chips offering a non-competitive (For Q4) 8$/GH, but now they're late. No wonder the icedrill shareholders are looking into a lawsuit (Complimentary: "Always bet on ICE!")! This is the world we currently live in. It's competitive. But some will weather it. ActM COULD be one of them.

Timing is everything. 

[knybe]

...Timing is everything.  

tick talk...

[minerpart]

Neither of you seem to understand the complex possibilities of new innovative technology.

There has been a sudden upsurge in fault reports, this is not 'normal'. They are not all firmware related. Posters are saying quality of product has deteriorated since the shipping of order 500+.

So maybe you get the idea now? If you show no interest in what others are telling you because you think you know it all already you just live in your own little bubble of 'I am right'. Well I decided to have a look at the site and found out some facts. You two just spouted something from yesterday that you think will be true tomorrow. The world changes every second of every day, try keeping up.

[finlof]

Neither of you seem to understand the complex possibilities of new innovative technology.

There has been a sudden upsurge in fault reports, this is not 'normal'. They are not all firmware related. Posters are saying quality of product has deteriorated since the shipping of order 500+.

So maybe you get the idea now? If you show no interest in what others are telling you because you think you know it all already you just live in your own little bubble of 'I am right'. Well I decided to have a look at the site and found out some facts. You two just spouted something from yesterday that you think will be true tomorrow. The world changes every second of every day, try keeping up.

hey mr. pot-calling-kettle-black (aka minerpart) - are you seriously telling everyone that you believe that ACtM is and/or will be better than KNC?  without any current proof to back that up other than your feeling?  seems bargraphics is proof that they produce a pretty nice product, and have produced a lot of it (with total network over 3 PH/s now, we know that all that added hash isnt only coming from BFL, ASICMiner, and bitfury).  that isnt to say that ACtM cant and wont produce a good, timely product.  even IF they do it doesnt make KNC's product any less good, and doesnt take away from the fact that they are adding/have added a shit-ton of that total hash (1.5 PH/s according to bargraphics, though that number seems high right now, maybe thats the total amt they have sold) to the network before ACtM even put out 1 MH/s.  maybe KNC will fall by the wayside (like ASICMiner seems to have) and ACtM will be right there to pick up all the willing buyers.  let's hope so for everyone's sake that has $ invested in ACtM.

so to recap - KNC current has a product that is shipping and a lot of people are mining with.  ACtM does not.  bashing other companies (KNC, ASICMiner, BFL, Avalon, etc) that have actually put out a product and are PROFITABLE will NOT make ACtM make and release their product any sooner.  if you feel you must resort to bashing other companies because you dont have enough positive info to cheer about with ACtM, then you need to take that up with Ken.

disclaimer:

believe me when i say that i hope all this works out for anyone who has $ invested.  i dont want people to lose money, whether i like them or not.  but if you lose because you put a bunch of money into something that you dont really know about, i'm not going to feel sorry for you when you complain that things didnt happen according to original plan or didnt go how you wanted.

EDIT - and in case you didnt know, the difficulty jump that just happpened was almost a 50% increase.
EDIT #2 - apparently I am an ACtM investor again with a grand total of 8 shares (thanks to someone on cryptostocks.com for filling some of my low bid amt).

[drawingthesun]

EDIT - and in case you didnt know, the difficulty jump that just happpened was almost a 50% increase.

Ken, we really need these eASIC chips! What the hell is going on?