Gridcoin (GRC) - first coin utilizing BOINC - Official Thread

[Gridcoin]

Can anyone please explain the benefit of "poolmining=true"...?

I have tried setting "poolmining=true" a couple of times and cgminer just continues to mine at the real difficulty, if the share difficulty doesn't decrease for "poolmining=true", then why even have it at all...?

Thanks!

Why have it at all:
Because people with cards slower than 500kh/s can be in the pool and receive regular payments over time.
If the difficulty rose to 10 lets say, the 100kh/s card would still be in the pool forever, because the difficulty changes the lookback period.
And if the 100kh/s user finds any block during the lookback period they stay in the pool.
So it simulates the equivalent of how a real pool functions.

If a user wants to take the risk of finding a block by solo mining they can, but they may not receive payments for long periods of time when difficulty is high.

Rob H.

[TribalBob]

Can anyone please explain the benefit of "poolmining=true"...?

I have tried setting "poolmining=true" a couple of times and cgminer just continues to mine at the real difficulty, if the share difficulty doesn't decrease for "poolmining=true", then why even have it at all...?

Thanks!

Why have it at all:
Because people with cards slower than 500kh/s can be in the pool and receive regular payments over time.
If the difficulty rose to 10 lets say, the 100kh/s card would still be in the pool forever, because the difficulty changes the lookback period.
And if the 100kh/s user finds any block during the lookback period they stay in the pool.
So it simulates the equivalent of how a real pool functions.

If a user wants to take the risk of finding a block by solo mining they can, but they may not receive payments for long periods of time when difficulty is high.

Rob H.

That really does not answer my question.

I have a card that does ~400 KH/s, when I joined the pool there was literally ZERO difference in the difficulty that I was mining at. I was mining at the full target difficulty.

If there is literally ZERO difference between solo mining difficulty and the pool's share difficulty then what is the point of having "poolmining=true"...?

[derm]

What Rob explained was, you experience less variance in payouts.
You are right, this does not affect the difficulty, it lowers risk.

[Gridcoin]

Can anyone please explain the benefit of "poolmining=true"...?

I have tried setting "poolmining=true" a couple of times and cgminer just continues to mine at the real difficulty, if the share difficulty doesn't decrease for "poolmining=true", then why even have it at all...?

Thanks!

Why have it at all:
Because people with cards slower than 500kh/s can be in the pool and receive regular payments over time.
If the difficulty rose to 10 lets say, the 100kh/s card would still be in the pool forever, because the difficulty changes the lookback period.
And if the 100kh/s user finds any block during the lookback period they stay in the pool.
So it simulates the equivalent of how a real pool functions.

If a user wants to take the risk of finding a block by solo mining they can, but they may not receive payments for long periods of time when difficulty is high.

Rob H.

That really does not answer my question.

I have a card that does ~400 KH/s, when I joined the pool there was literally ZERO difference in the difficulty that I was mining at. I was mining at the full target difficulty.

If there is literally ZERO difference between solo mining difficulty and the pool's share difficulty then what is the point of having "poolmining=true"...?

No there is no difference in difficulty; if there was everyone would want to pool mine to get something for nothing. LOL.  

I may not understand your question; if you are asking what is the benefit for you personally; none at this time since you can find a few blocks a day, it doesn't make much difference to you at this time.

But if we were solo mining feather, with a 100 difficulty, you would not get anything for 15-30 days; at that point the pool would come in handy, because the lookback would be 60 days (its dynamic), and members of the pool would be paid every time any other member of the pool finds a block, making regular payments would satisfy some miners as they go - if we had a high difficulty like that.

Rob H.

[TribalBob]

No there is no difference in difficulty; if there was everyone would want to pool mine to get something for nothing. LOL.  

I may not understand your question; if you are asking what is the benefit for you personally; none at this time since you can find a few blocks a day, it doesn't make much difference to you at this time.

But if we were solo mining feather, with a 100 difficulty, you would not get anything for 15-30 days; at that point the pool would come in handy, because the lookback would be 60 days (its dynamic), and members of the pool would be paid every time any other member of the pool finds a block, making regular payments would satisfy some miners as they go - if we had a high difficulty like that.

Rob H.

Ok, let me try to explain my question better:

When I normally join a pool, let's say I am joining for a coin which has a difficulty of 500. When I mine at that pool I submit shares that are a target difficulty of 16 (NOT a difficulty of 500).

Every round when a block of difficulty 500 is found they compare how many difficulty 16 shares I have submitted and pay me based on a ratio of my difficulty 16 shares as compared to the total of difficulty 16 shares.



Now, let's say Gridcoin's real difficulty is 500. When I join Gridcoin's pool, I am still mining at difficulty 500 which means I am NOT submitting shares, I am only solving blocks.

HOW am I EVER going to get paid from the pool when there are no shares being submitted...?

[A L I E N]

No there is no difference in difficulty; if there was everyone would want to pool mine to get something for nothing. LOL.  

I may not understand your question; if you are asking what is the benefit for you personally; none at this time since you can find a few blocks a day, it doesn't make much difference to you at this time.

But if we were solo mining feather, with a 100 difficulty, you would not get anything for 15-30 days; at that point the pool would come in handy, because the lookback would be 60 days (its dynamic), and members of the pool would be paid every time any other member of the pool finds a block, making regular payments would satisfy some miners as they go - if we had a high difficulty like that.

Rob H.

Ok, let me try to explain my question better:

When I normally join a pool, let's say I am joining for a coin which has a difficulty of 500. When I mine at that pool I submit shares that are a target difficulty of 16 (NOT a difficulty of 500).

Every round when a block of difficulty 500 is found they compare how many difficulty 16 shares I have submitted and pay me based on a ratio of my difficulty 16 shares as compared to the total of difficulty 16 shares.



Now, let's say Gridcoin's real difficulty is 500. When I join Gridcoin's pool, I am still mining at difficulty 500 which means I am NOT submitting shares, I am only solving blocks.

HOW am I EVER going to get paid from the pool when there are no shares being submitted...?

Have you found a block yet since you started pool mining?  I believe it doesn't kick in until you find a block, but then you get a portion of all blocks that are found from the pool (anyone with poolmining=true).  That is the advantage, not the change in difficulty.  You will not have pseudo-share difficulty like traditional pools. 

[traderman]

If difficulty is 500 and everyone in the pool is cpu mining, then pretty much no one will find any blocks? Am I understanding this correctly? 

No there is no difference in difficulty; if there was everyone would want to pool mine to get something for nothing. LOL.  

I may not understand your question; if you are asking what is the benefit for you personally; none at this time since you can find a few blocks a day, it doesn't make much difference to you at this time.

But if we were solo mining feather, with a 100 difficulty, you would not get anything for 15-30 days; at that point the pool would come in handy, because the lookback would be 60 days (its dynamic), and members of the pool would be paid every time any other member of the pool finds a block, making regular payments would satisfy some miners as they go - if we had a high difficulty like that.

Rob H.

Ok, let me try to explain my question better:

When I normally join a pool, let's say I am joining for a coin which has a difficulty of 500. When I mine at that pool I submit shares that are a target difficulty of 16 (NOT a difficulty of 500).

Every round when a block of difficulty 500 is found they compare how many difficulty 16 shares I have submitted and pay me based on a ratio of my difficulty 16 shares as compared to the total of difficulty 16 shares.



Now, let's say Gridcoin's real difficulty is 500. When I join Gridcoin's pool, I am still mining at difficulty 500 which means I am NOT submitting shares, I am only solving blocks.

HOW am I EVER going to get paid from the pool when there are no shares being submitted...?

Have you found a block yet since you started pool mining?  I believe it doesn't kick in until you find a block, but then you get a portion of all blocks that are found from the pool (anyone with poolmining=true).  That is the advantage, not the change in difficulty.  You will not have pseudo-share difficulty like traditional pools.  

[TribalBob]

Have you found a block yet since you started pool mining?  I believe it doesn't kick in until you find a block, but then you get a portion of all blocks that are found from the pool (anyone with poolmining=true).  That is the advantage, not the change in difficulty.  You will not have pseudo-share difficulty like traditional pools. 

Ah, I see... So everyone in the pool gets an equal share of the blocks found by the pool, but first you must find a block and you must  also find a block often enough to be kept in the lookback period... Now I understand, thank you!

If difficulty is 500 and everyone in the pool is cpu mining, then pretty much no one will find any blocks? Am I understanding this correctly? 

It's to my understanding that the pool is for gpu mining. Cpu mining is done differently: https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/1922-cpu-mining-tutorialtopic/

[Gridcoin]

Have you found a block yet since you started pool mining?  I believe it doesn't kick in until you find a block, but then you get a portion of all blocks that are found from the pool (anyone with poolmining=true).  That is the advantage, not the change in difficulty.  You will not have pseudo-share difficulty like traditional pools. 

Ah, I see... So everyone in the pool gets an equal share of the blocks found by the pool, but first you must find a block and you must  also find a block often enough to be kept in the lookback period... Now I understand, thank you!

If difficulty is 500 and everyone in the pool is cpu mining, then pretty much no one will find any blocks? Am I understanding this correctly? 

It's to my understanding that the pool is for gpu mining. Cpu mining is done differently: https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/1922-cpu-mining-tutorialtopic/

Yes you got it, the integrated pool is for gpu mining, and yes you have to find a block first before getting payments, and you keep getting paid even after you stop pool mining until the period is over; and you do get paid by other miners who find blocks, that's why you get about 30 payments a day at this current difficulty.

The RBPPS in other pools is about the same except pools commonly keep about 3% for overhead while we are free and your main risk is submitting stale shares.

Rob H.

[Inrideo]

Did something change with the system yesterday? I used to get .3 to 1.2 gridcoins every 30 minutes or so.
In the last 24 hours I mined 7500, at my 106 KHash rate.

I can't complain about my sudden good fortune but this is nuts!

[traderman]

sounds like a fork to me. you need to restart your gridcoin client.

Did something change with the system yesterday? I used to get .3 to 1.2 gridcoins every 30 minutes or so.
In the last 24 hours I mined 7500, at my 106 KHash rate.

I can't complain about my sudden good fortune but this is nuts!

[Inrideo]

I've done that several times. I usually restart the client every hour or two to make sure it's in sync, since it was always stalling before.

[aysyr]

If you fork what you need to do is delete the blocks and chainstate folders in your \AppData\Roaming\Gridcoin folder. And relaunch the client.

[statdude]

How many grid coins exist so far?

[aysyr]

Less than 5051250.

There are 33675 blocks when I wrote this, but the thing is the reward goes from 5 - 150 GRC. 5 GRC if the person who finds the block isn't running BOINC, and 6 - 150 depending if BOINC utilization is at 100% when block is found. Usually that amount is 150 though. But yea, there have been a lot of blocks found with less than a 150 reward though, and the 5051250 amount is granted that each reward was 150 GRC

[Inrideo]

Damn. It *was* too good to be true. All 7500 coins gone

[Inrideo]

If a fork creates useless coins how exactly do they get confirmations? I could see the confirmations counting down on the coins, and then the maturity countdown. It's essentially showing them as valid even though they were garbage once a new sync was performed.

[aysyr]

If a fork creates useless coins how exactly do they get confirmations? I could see the confirmations counting down on the coins, and then the maturity countdown. It's essentially showing them as valid even though they were garbage once a new sync was performed.

It's happened to me a few times as well lol, so I know how you feel seeing them all disappear. And they show up as getting confirmed because when you get forked, the forked chain becomes the "real" chain, so each time you find a new block, it confirms the previous ones. It's totally unaware that it's on the wrong chain so it goes on as normal.

[Inrideo]

Interesting. I wish I had some beer so I could cry in it.

[prins]

any word/news on pool mining w/o having to find a block first?
i mean the concept of the coin is still good but this keeps ppl away and when difficulty rises it will become impossible for new miners to solo mine and join the pool.
There needs to come a solution for this..